SSBU - What are your nitpicks?

[Arthur97]

I don't seem to have much issue with CPU targeting. Granted, I was mainly playing with Amiibo at that point I think so maybe it was different.

 

[Xelrog]

There's a nitpick. I'm so disappointed that Amiibo still have those stupid stat boosts at high levels. They could actually be fun and useful as training partners without them. As it stands, they're just shelf decorations.

 

[Arthur97]

There's a nitpick. I'm so disappointed that Amiibo still have those stupid stat boosts at high levels. They could actually be fun and useful as training partners without them. As it stands, they're just shelf decorations.

Without the stat boosts they'd likely just be fodder like regular CPUs.

 

[JiggyNinja]

Not all the Spirit Battles show up on the Spirit Board. I want to try to find out how many different strategies there are to easily murder the harder spirits, but for the life of me I can't get Ho-oh to show up on the Spirit Board! WoL is the only way I can fight it, and I can't even save scum easily to get a ton of rematches. If I release Ho-oh, it just shows up in the shops not on the Spirit Board.

Every battle that you can win a spirit from (even the WoL bosses) should show up on the Spirit Board after you've beaten it in WoL.

 

[channel_KYX]

Not all the Spirit Battles show up on the Spirit Board. I want to try to find out how many different strategies there are to easily murder the harder

I don't want to ruin your fun, to each their own, but: Why would you want to kill the harder ones again and again? Isn't once enough?

 

[JiggyNinja]

I don't want to ruin your fun, to each their own, but: Why would you want to kill the harder ones again and again? Isn't once enough?

Why would I not want to explore the full abilities of the entire cast and learn the extent of all of their powers? Even for just the Ho-oh fight there's a ton of different ways you can think of to clear it aside from using a Franklin Badge or Slow Super Armor. Are reflectors better or worse than absorbers? How well do Counters work? What about Bowser's Tough Guy? I haven't tried Shulk's Shield Art yet.

Honestly, the Ho-oh fight has a special place in my heart because it's the first one I really struggled with and pissed me off. The first time I cleared it was total luck (he got blasted by the stage hazards) which is a bit unsatisfying. That's kind of why I wanted to focus on the Ho-oh fight first, and am pissed that it specifically does not show up on the Spirit Board. It's so stupid and arbitrary.

 

[Arthur97]

Why would I not want to explore the full abilities of the entire cast and learn the extent of all of their powers? Even for just the Ho-oh fight there's a ton of different ways you can think of to clear it aside from using a Franklin Badge or Slow Super Armor. Are reflectors better or worse than absorbers? How well do Counters work? What about Bowser's Tough Guy? I haven't tried Shulk's Shield Art yet.

Honestly, the Ho-oh fight has a special place in my heart because it's the first one I really struggled with and pissed me off. The first time I cleared it was total luck (he got blasted by the stage hazards) which is a bit unsatisfying. That's kind of why I wanted to focus on the Ho-oh fight first, and am pissed that it specifically does not show up on the Spirit Board. It's so stupid and arbitrary.

That fight kept me from really trying to beat anymore legendaries until Caeda I think and even then because I wanted past it.

 

[TheDuke54]

Personally I don't find spirit boards all that fun. I found it after I completed WoL. 1 play through is all I need. So after 100% on that fighting more spirits with insane handicaps wasn't really my thing.

 

[Crystanium]

Not all the Spirit Battles show up on the Spirit Board.

And not all spirits show up in WoL. I thought I'd add that tidbit in.

My complaint for SSBU is still its inconsistencies. Maybe there's some kind of logic behind it, but I don't see it. Here's an example.

• Oil Panic reflects super missiles (SM).
• Ness' f-smash reflects SM.
• If Oil Panic reflects SM, and then Samus fires a full Charge Shot (CS), it will destroy SM and hit G&W.
  If Ness' f-smash reflects SM, and then Samus fires a full CS, both SM and CS will be destroyed.

In previous games, a full CS would destroy SM and hit Ness anyway. Sometimes I just hate SSBU.

 

[Arthur97]

And not all spirits show up in WoL. I thought I'd add that tidbit in.

My complaint for SSBU is still its inconsistencies. Maybe there's some kind of logic behind it, but I don't see it. Here's an example.

• Oil Panic reflects super missiles (SM).
• Ness' f-smash reflects SM.
• If Oil Panic reflects SM, and then Samus fires a full Charge Shot (CS), it will destroy SM and hit G&W.
  If Ness' f-smash reflects SM, and then Samus fires a full CS, both SM and CS will be destroyed.

In previous games, a full CS would destroy SM and hit Ness anyway. Sometimes I just hate SSBU.

Ness probably has a stronger multiplier and therefore the missile is strong enough to negate the charge shot. What's the problem?

 

[Crystanium]

Ness probably has a stronger multiplier and therefore the missile is strong enough to negate the charge shot. What's the problem?

Well, yeah. It'd just be nice to have consistency.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, yeah. It'd just be nice to have consistency.

What, you want all reflectors to be the same? Why should Ness' hard to reflect with bat be on the same level as sit there and hold it bucket?

 

[Crystanium]

What, you want all reflectors to be the same? Why should Ness' hard to reflect with bat be on the same level as sit there and hold it bucket?

It's not difficult to reflect using Ness' f-smash. Or, G&W could lose the new reflector.

 

[Luigifan18]

Not all the Spirit Battles show up on the Spirit Board. I want to try to find out how many different strategies there are to easily murder the harder spirits, but for the life of me I can't get Ho-oh to show up on the Spirit Board! WoL is the only way I can fight it, and I can't even save scum easily to get a ton of rematches. If I release Ho-oh, it just shows up in the shops not on the Spirit Board.

Every battle that you can win a spirit from (even the WoL bosses) should show up on the Spirit Board after you've beaten it in WoL.

I don't want to ruin your fun, to each their own, but: Why would you want to kill the harder ones again and again? Isn't once enough?

Why would I not want to explore the full abilities of the entire cast and learn the extent of all of their powers? Even for just the Ho-oh fight there's a ton of different ways you can think of to clear it aside from using a Franklin Badge or Slow Super Armor. Are reflectors better or worse than absorbers? How well do Counters work? What about Bowser's Tough Guy? I haven't tried Shulk's Shield Art yet.

Honestly, the Ho-oh fight has a special place in my heart because it's the first one I really struggled with and pissed me off. The first time I cleared it was total luck (he got blasted by the stage hazards) which is a bit unsatisfying. That's kind of why I wanted to focus on the Ho-oh fight first, and am pissed that it specifically does not show up on the Spirit Board. It's so stupid and arbitrary.

That fight kept me from really trying to beat anymore legendaries until Caeda I think and even then because I wanted past it.

I have all the Spirits and I'm at the point where I have multiples of several Spirits and am using them in amiibo-building. Ho-oh is actually quite useful for ratcheting up the offense stat of an amiibo, even if its build has no room for Additional Midair Jump.

 

[Omnivero]

My attack clashing with someone when I'm behind them

 

[channel_KYX]

I got one more: When I get to character select screen and want to select a different alt costume, it needs to load the images, even just the colour swaps. What is this, 1998 PS1? And it's not fast either, sometimes it takes 5 sec just to see them. That could have been done better.
Even worse, when click the portrait, it needs to load the stock icons. They are roughly 50x50 pixels. Why does it take so long?

 

[TheDuke54]

Right? I like Toon Link with his brown sleeves and I only know where it is because I counted the alt skins in between. I should not have to do that by memory. It should show up immediately. Feels like I'm back to the dial up era.

 

[Sparky08]

The costume portraits sometimes load a little too long.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Some of my nitpicks are very obvious, which includes three of the four playable transformation Final Smashes from Smash 3DS / Wii U being relegated to only showing up in cutscenes. If Final Smashes are still banned from competitive play, then it literally makes no sense to turn a majority of Final Smashes into a replica of Triforce Slash or Blue Falcon; Super Dragon definitely feels more unique than a mere Yoshi stampede.

As for Giga Bowser, he gets relegated back to being a boss that you can't play as, and there isn't a single Spirit that lets you play as him. And to add insult to injury, Giga Bowser is the only boss with a fighter ID, making it feel even more baffling that he isn't playable. However, he would have to take knockback to avoid being too good.

In terms of aesthetic nitpicks, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and Bowser lacking their Mario series voice portrayals still feels irritating, especially when you realize that Yoshi, Bowser Jr., and the Koopalings still sound like their canon selves. This even applies to King K. Rool, since the last person to voice him still voices Funky Kong.

 

[Xelrog]

In Donkey Kong Country, the only part of the DK franchise I personally care about, Donkey Kong sounded like a gorilla and Diddy sounded like a monkey. Canon.

 

[Arthur97]

I don't think DK is as bad as Bowser. DK still largely acts like DK, so it works out okay.

 

[xwingz900]

Yeah I can think of a couple:

Can't select no stage hazards from the stage select screen

Online in general

World of Light is.............better than nothing I guess

No target smash, no event mode, and All-star mode is now a variation of multi man.

Echo fighters in general

I don't like spirits

Can't play squad strike online.

 

[CircularSaw]

- tons of missing modes; no stage editor, no break the targets, no home run contest, no boss rush, not a single side scrolling level (bonus stage in classic doesn't really count). It's more than a nitpick tho.
- can't coop quickplays with online friends
- they kept other M suit design for Samus and with no alternative

 

[Ryan.]

Super nitpicky but I miss the characters being sorted by series lol. Just a preference of mine and it made it easier to find them for me. I've only had the game for a few days though so maybe this and the stage selection will get easier in time.

As several mentioned above, I wish echos were more different than their counterparts. All of them except maybe Chrom (and only because of his up special) feel like they should just be skins like Alph to Olimar. I mean yeah I guess it's nice and more appealing to audiences to have a larger roster and I know there are slight differences that still make huge differences in competitive play but I'd just prefer a more unique and condensed roster if the echos aren't more distinct from one another.

I liked air-dodging better in Smash 4, even if it helps some characters with their poor recovery. It's just a tad bit too laggy for me. Again probably just something I have to get used to though.

I really wish they brought back stage builder and made it kind of like a combination of Brawl and Smash 4 and added other elements like water, different terrain, and such.

Melee style Target Smash is still missed btw.

 

[Necro'lic]

In Donkey Kong Country, the only part of the DK franchise I personally care about, Donkey Kong sounded like a gorilla and Diddy sounded like a monkey. Canon.

How about DK in DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze then?

Checkmate!

 

[soviet prince]

Super nitpicky but I miss the characters being sorted by series lol. Just a preference of mine and it made it easier to find them for me. I've only had the game for a few days though so maybe this and the stage selection will get easier in time.

As several mentioned above, I wish echos were more different than their counterparts. All of them except maybe Chrom (and only because of his up special) feel like they should just be skins like Alph to Olimar. I mean yeah I guess it's nice and more appealing to audiences to have a larger roster and I know there are slight differences that still make huge differences in competitive play but I'd just prefer a more unique and condensed roster if the echos aren't more distinct from one another.

I liked air-dodging better in Smash 4, even if it helps some characters with their poor recovery. It's just a tad bit too laggy for me. Again probably just something I have to get used to though.

I really wish they brought back stage builder and made it kind of like a combination of Brawl and Smash 4 and added other elements like water, different terrain, and such.

Melee style Target Smash is still missed btw.

you do know if they were just skins then they be about the same thing right, so it's not hurting them by being choosable

pro and cons to taking them off roster and turning them alt:

pros

- I geuss maybe the roster looks more neat

cons

- there can no longer be ANY differences
- easier to select for ppl who want that character
- can have there own victory theme
- can use alt costumes of that character

I am sure there more but there way more cons then pros, had a difficult time finding any positive to taking them off

 

[TheDuke54]

He never said he wanted them out of the roster, just that you would swap through a character to get to them. Like Marth's thing would have Lucinia within in. Speaking of such, wasn't it supposed to be a thing where you could hide the echoes into the mains if you wanted to? I vaguely remember that in one of the directs. Whatever happened to that?

And yeah man I miss smash the targets melee style to. They really poured their all into making unique ones for each fighter. Which yeah it would be harder to do with so many more fighters, but it'd be so much more diverse.

And what Ryan said about fighters being organized by series, I miss that about the other smashes to. Now it just seems sloppy and half the time I'm blindly trying to find a fighter I've used on numerous occasions. As far as this smash goes, it is fun, but I can say they got a lot more wrong on this one then the other installments. At least I see myself picking away at the most annoying and easiest fixes. Things that should had been done without a thought.

 

[soviet prince]

He never said he wanted them out of the roster, just that you would swap through a character to get to them. Like Marth's thing would have Lucinia within in. Speaking of such, wasn't it supposed to be a thing where you could hide the echoes into the mains if you wanted to? I vaguely remember that in one of the directs. Whatever happened to that?

And yeah man I miss smash the targets melee style to. They really poured their all into making unique ones for each fighter. Which yeah it would be harder to do with so many more fighters, but it'd be so much more diverse.

And what Ryan said about fighters being organized by series, I miss that about the other smashes to. Now it just seems sloppy and half the time I'm blindly trying to find a fighter I've used on numerous occasions. As far as this smash goes, it is fun, but I can say they got a lot more wrong on this one then the other installments. At least I see myself picking away at the most annoying and easiest fixes. Things that should had been done without a thought.

yeah can switch them back and forth already

 

[TheDuke54]

I did not know that. Thanks for the heads up, going to see where I got lost.

 

[Xelrog]

How about DK in DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze then?

Checkmate!

In Donkey Kong Country, the only part of the DK franchise I personally care about

 

[JiggyNinja]

you do know if they were just skins then they be about the same thing right, so it's not hurting them by being choosable

My problem is that it gives false expectations. This is probably because I skipped Smash 4 and never got to directly experience the debut of Lucina and Dark Pit, but when Daisy and Dark Samus were revealed I was excited to see what subtle differences there might be between them, just like the clones in Melee had. For all the **** Melee got for its cloned movesets, they were nowhere near as bad as this. No one could mistake Captain Falcon for Ganondorf, or Falco for Fox.

I was extremely disappointed to discover just how extreme of an absence of differentiation there was, and every time I see them taking up a roster slot it is a reminder of the squandered potential. I'm not asking for total redesigns, just more of what they did to Ken. Change the proerties of some moves (msingle hits in multi-hits, change the damage, knockback, or launch angle, give them some different effects, SOMETHING! Like for Dark Samus, maybe make its physical attacks weaker, but it poisons the enemy with Phazon when it hits with an energy attack like Charge Beam or down tilt. That would be sick! And still much less work than a total redesign. Instead we got nothing.

It's been years since I played Melee, but I can still list a bunch of ways Fox and Falco were different

- Falo's Up-B and Side-B went shorter distance
- Fox ran faster
- Falco's first jump was significantly higher
- Fox's Dair was a drill, Falco's was a single hit spike
- Fox's blaster had a higher rate of fire, but had no hit stun. Falco's was slower and stunned.
- Falco's reflector launched up and slightly to the side, Foxes launched sideways and slightly down.

I'm sure that's not all of them, they're just the most obvious ones I remember. None of the Smash Ultimate Echoes have anything like that list of differences. Ken comes closest, but still falls short.

- there can no longer be ANY differences

There aren't any differences worth keeping anyway.

- easier to select for ppl who want that character

I don't care.

- can have there own victory theme

I don't care.

- can use alt costumes of that character

I don't care.

I am sure there more but there way more cons then pros, had a difficult time finding any positive to taking them off

You can't just list a bunch of things and compare the size of the list as if all the elements have equal weight. That's Objectivity Failure 101. And you did miss one thing. It's not so much an argument to take them off, but an argument that they never should have been added in the first place:

THEY'RE A HUGE ****ING DISAPPOINTMENT OF UNMET EXPECTATIONS!

The roster is the most important part of a fighting game. It is the nexus around which literally every other aspect of the game revolves. A flaw in some other game mode (like if there were a few Spirits with identical battles), it can be easy to ignore. But a flaw in the cast design is front and center, in your face for everything you do in the game. If you don't like WoL or the Spirit Board you can ignore it. You can't ignore the roster.

Speaking of such, wasn't it supposed to be a thing where you could hide the echoes into the mains if you wanted to? I vaguely remember that in one of the directs. Whatever happened to that?

ZR -> Options -> Smash

 

[Haden]

Wolf's foward tilt carries players who are about as good at edge guarding as Soulja Boy is at rapping.

 

[Xelrog]

Speaking of such, wasn't it supposed to be a thing where you could hide the echoes into the mains if you wanted to? I vaguely remember that in one of the directs. Whatever happened to that?

ZR -> Options -> Smash

Mine is the only station at the local competitive scene that has this set, haha. It's so nice and clean-looking, though, with fewer character slots.

 

[Borlax]

1.I hate that the Meta of this game seems so revolved around neutral. The game just feels like land a hit and then retreat to neutral and hope you out neutral the next person. I main megaman, Greninja, game and watch Roy and shiek. I can't do combos with any sense of confidence online because people just Nair out of it or spotdodge through it. Like 10% more hitstun and you might be able to react to DI and have some meaningful interplay.

2. Megaman gets only 5 moves (fair, leaf shield, metal blade, slide, dairy) that can reasonably hit a crouching Kirby/Pichu without putting him in horrible position and he gets called cheap because of leaf shield..then gets nerfed. He could have been done so much better. Why doesn't megaman projectiles beat out wolf's...megaman is nothing but projectiles you would think that would suggest superiority in the field but nah...that's the gerbil with a biker jacket.

3. They got rid of edge cancelling..why. smash ultimate tries to suggest there's a competitive element then just keeps teasing by making it so accessible to just Jab and dash attack on repeat. It's not exciting.

4. Why do spikes even remotely knock people upward...why did ganons dair send me sideways at a nonthreatening velocity. Was that a gentle breeze it didn't feel like a spike

5. Why is Bowser so thick with damage. One b to a recovering person is like 40-70 damage. Does he not know how big of a buff heavyweights got in this game. Why couldn't you just let people walk through each other...that's a whole shield pressure gone.

6. Why is every move so safe...it just made the unsafe ones literally unusable. It streamlined the game to the same 6 moves over and over. At least in melee you would fair with falco to mix up di and still deal damage to lead to a combo if it mixed them up right. Now you choose to fair because it's safe and there's no mindgame.

7. I'm never really impressed by these pro matches, they all look the same but that's all the game lends itself to for playstyles, 1 per character. Ultimate is kinda disappointing, waiting for the mod to give me gravity and freedom

 

[Arthur97]

1.I hate that the Meta of this game seems so revolved around neutral. The game just feels like land a hit and then retreat to neutral and hope you out neutral the next person. I main megaman, Greninja, game and watch Roy and shiek. I can't do combos with any sense of confidence online because people just Nair out of it or spotdodge through it. Like 10% more hitstun and you might be able to react to DI and have some meaningful interplay.

2. Megaman gets only 5 moves (fair, leaf shield, metal blade, slide, dairy) that can reasonably hit a crouching Kirby/Pichu without putting him in horrible position and he gets called cheap because of leaf shield..then gets nerfed. He could have been done so much better. Why doesn't megaman projectiles beat out wolf's...megaman is nothing but projectiles you would think that would suggest superiority in the field but nah...that's the gerbil with a biker jacket.

3. They got rid of edge cancelling..why. smash ultimate tries to suggest there's a competitive element then just keeps teasing by making it so accessible to just Jab and dash attack on repeat. It's not exciting.

4. Why do spikes even remotely knock people upward...why did ganons dair send me sideways at a nonthreatening velocity. Was that a gentle breeze it didn't feel like a spike

5. Why is Bowser so thick with damage. One b to a recovering person is like 40-70 damage. Does he not know how big of a buff heavyweights got in this game. Why couldn't you just let people walk through each other...that's a whole shield pressure gone.

6. Why is every move so safe...it just made the unsafe ones literally unusable. It streamlined the game to the same 6 moves over and over. At least in melee you would fair with falco to mix up di and still deal damage to lead to a combo if it mixed them up right. Now you choose to fair because it's safe and there's no mindgame.

7. I'm never really impressed by these pro matches, they all look the same but that's all the game lends itself to for playstyles, 1 per character. Ultimate is kinda disappointing, waiting for the mod to give me gravity and freedom

Are you aware Ganondorf's down air has a sourspot that sends opponents horizontally?

 

[Necro'lic]

Xelrog Where exactly do Donkey Kong Country Returns and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze belong in the DK franchise then?

 

[Xelrog]

Xelrog Where exactly do Donkey Kong Country Returns and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze belong in the DK franchise then?

In the Donkey Kong Country Returns line, just like how New Super Mario Bros. is not the same series as the original SMB's.

 

[Borlax]

Are you aware Ganondorf's down air has a sourspot that sends opponents horizontally?

I'm aware, it doesn't make the suspension of disbelief any better. It's jarring the same way I don't expect stomping newspaper into a garbage can to suddenly have the newspaper fly sideways instead of the expected downward like the force that was applied. I grasp it's a game but that's ridiculous for such a deliberate direction and action. Imagine ganondorfs warlock punch sent people down...it wouldn't look or feel good because that's perpendicular to the way force was applied. It's weird.

 

[Necro'lic]

In the Donkey Kong Country Returns line, just like how New Super Mario Bros. is not the same series as the original SMB's.

Really strange way to see it. Everywhere else I see, Returns and Tropical Freeze are also referred to DKC4 and DKC5. Because, you know, that makes sense.

You sure you didn't mean to just say "original DKC trilogy"?

 

[soviet prince]

My problem is that it gives false expectations. This is probably because I skipped Smash 4 and never got to directly experience the debut of Lucina and Dark Pit, but when Daisy and Dark Samus were revealed I was excited to see what subtle differences there might be between them, just like the clones in Melee had. For all the **** Melee got for its cloned movesets, they were nowhere near as bad as this. No one could mistake Captain Falcon for Ganondorf, or Falco for Fox.

I was extremely disappointed to discover just how extreme of an absence of differentiation there was, and every time I see them taking up a roster slot it is a reminder of the squandered potential. I'm not asking for total redesigns, just more of what they did to Ken. Change the proerties of some moves (msingle hits in multi-hits, change the damage, knockback, or launch angle, give them some different effects, SOMETHING! Like for Dark Samus, maybe make its physical attacks weaker, but it poisons the enemy with Phazon when it hits with an energy attack like Charge Beam or down tilt. That would be sick! And still much less work than a total redesign. Instead we got nothing.

It's been years since I played Melee, but I can still list a bunch of ways Fox and Falco were different

- Falo's Up-B and Side-B went shorter distance
- Fox ran faster
- Falco's first jump was significantly higher
- Fox's Dair was a drill, Falco's was a single hit spike
- Fox's blaster had a higher rate of fire, but had no hit stun. Falco's was slower and stunned.
- Falco's reflector launched up and slightly to the side, Foxes launched sideways and slightly down.

I'm sure that's not all of them, they're just the most obvious ones I remember. None of the Smash Ultimate Echoes have anything like that list of differences. Ken comes closest, but still falls short.


There aren't any differences worth keeping anyway.

I don't care.

I don't care.

I don't care.


You can't just list a bunch of things and compare the size of the list as if all the elements have equal weight. That's Objectivity Failure 101. And you did miss one thing. It's not so much an argument to take them off, but an argument that they never should have been added in the first place:

THEY'RE A HUGE ****ING DISAPPOINTMENT OF UNMET EXPECTATIONS!

The roster is the most important part of a fighting game. It is the nexus around which literally every other aspect of the game revolves. A flaw in some other game mode (like if there were a few Spirits with identical battles), it can be easy to ignore. But a flaw in the cast design is front and center, in your face for everything you do in the game. If you don't like WoL or the Spirit Board you can ignore it. You can't ignore the roster.

ZR -> Options -> Smash

it's the own players fault for having such expectations when sakurai has explained already that there carbon copys. I will gladly take my extra dessert thank you.

also putting I don't care on things you can not debate against does an argument make not.