SSBU - What are your nitpicks?

[Deleted member]

I thought we could have a nitpick thread to voice all our minor annoyances with this game. Let’s have points that don’t necessarily make or break the game, so no:

• Balancing
• Online mode rants
• WoL was not what you expected/wanted it to be
• Etc…

I was just about to share when I saw this. Oh well...

 

[JiggyNinja]

So echo’s where just a way to make us stop complaining about clones even if they fixed the issue in brawl.

If so, it's totally missing the point. I never minded the Melee clones because they at least had all different stats than each other. These clones are just horribly lazy and I hate them. Why do we need both Simon and Richter when they are identical in all but a mostly irrelevant detail? Drop one of them and you lose nothing. Same for Daisy and Dark Samus.

At least give them different stats! Change their speed, change their launch angles, change the damage, CHANGE SOMETHING!! Make a multihit attack into a single hit, and make a single hit into a multi. Imagine if they made Dark Samus's attacks poison the opponent with Phazon. There is so much missed potential.

 

[Arthur97]

I’m Also dissapointed with echoes but not all of them.
Dark samus gets a pass because of her animation good lord are they creepy
Daisy is where the problem begins. Everything about her is just the same and her animations can’t make up for it.
Lucina as the same issue but now EVERYTHING is the same not even a new different idle stance.
Already talked about Chrom.
Dark pit same issue as Lucina, everything is the same except the way side b works.
Richter as the same issue as Daisy this time where he’s identical to Simon and barely as different animations to make up for it.
Ken should not even be an echo compared to the rest. So echo’s where just a way to make us stop complaining about clones even if they fixed the issue in brawl.

Ken...I wish they didn't pour so many resources into him when they could have gone to just about any other echo.

Lucina (and Dark Pit if I cared about him) have the issue that they broke the trend of becoming semi-clones. Doc sort of did too, but he at least gets his own number...for reasons.

 

[Necro'lic]

Biggest nitpick is definitely lack of controller options for the new "macros" they put in, as well as still no way to separate smash and tilt attacks from the control stick proper.

Less nitpicky is the fact that they still have not overhauled a lot of the older fighters, especially ones from Melee and 64, to be more in line with their abilities from their games. This includes most echoes though funny enough, people are complaining about Richter, when Simon's moveset borrows off of Richter anyway, so he at least makes sense since their one shared moveset references both of them simultaneously. All other echoes are fair game.

 

[soviet prince]

Lets not forget echoes are supposed to be the same any differences is bonus, we were told what to expect beforehand. There is a point to echoes like ritcher and Daisy they have fans and they would like to have there character in game not everyone is just about movesets they just want to be Mario beating the living crap out of characters like Donkey Kong and Pickachu.

 

[TheKooladion]

I’m Also dissapointed with echoes but not all of them.
Dark samus gets a pass because of her animation good lord are they creepy
Daisy is where the problem begins. Everything about her is just the same and her animations can’t make up for it.
Lucina as the same issue but now EVERYTHING is the same not even a new different idle stance.
Already talked about Chrom.
Dark pit same issue as Lucina, everything is the same except the way side b works.
Richter as the same issue as Daisy this time where he’s identical to Simon and barely as different animations to make up for it.
Ken should not even be an echo compared to the rest. So echo’s where just a way to make us stop complaining about clones even if they fixed the issue in brawl.

I disagree about Lucina. I don't know much about fire emblem so I'm not sure what her character is like, but her and marth are FAR from similar. Marth has a mechanic that makes the tip of his sword do more damage and knockback and vice versa with the rest of his sword, therefore making it better to keep distance within you and the target so you can do more damage. Lucina, on the other hand, does not have this mechanic, making it better to be more offensive and up in their face. In conclusion, they may have the same moves and stats, however they are played very differently.

 

[puff..jigglypuff]

Bugs me that Jigglypuff turns around after using a bair.

 

[Arthur97]

I disagree about Lucina. I don't know much about fire emblem so I'm not sure what her character is like, but her and marth are FAR from similar. Marth has a mechanic that makes the tip of his sword do more damage and knockback and vice versa with the rest of his sword, therefore making it better to keep distance within you and the target so you can do more damage. Lucina, on the other hand, does not have this mechanic, making it better to be more offensive and up in their face. In conclusion, they may have the same moves and stats, however they are played very differently.

Does this look like Marth's stance? Cause this is what hers should be in Smash. The lack of a tipper is not enough to do her justice.

 

[TheKooladion]

Does this look like Marth's stance? Cause this is what hers should be in Smash. The lack of a tipper is not enough to do her justice.

I agree. I believe every sword fighter should have a unique sword mechanic like marth and roy.

 

[Arthur97]

I agree. I believe every sword fighter should have a unique sword mechanic like marth and roy.

I don't think they all need a gimmick, just that they should actually look at the source material.

 

[Opossum]

I'll just throw in Lucina's, "Father, I won!" as well. You can hear the desperation and quivering in her voice. Grow a backbone, lady.

Chrom is literally dead in the timeline she came from, and her love for him is what constituted her biggest reason for going back in time to change things.

It's ironically enough one of her two victory lines that isn't grossly out of character for her. Her victory quotes against Marth and Ike are the real issue she has. They're so completely out of character that it's almost insulting.

 

[link2702]

Quick play Online not making matches best two out of three, and cycling between your ruleset and your opponents. instead choosing them randomly so you could possibly get screwed in using their rules multiple times in a row.... if they stay that is.

Not letting you switch characters between matches.

No home run contest, trophies, or smash run(seriously that was one of the best modes smash ever came up with, why abandon it?)

 

[Arthur97]

Chrom is literally dead in the timeline she came from, and her love for him is what constituted her biggest reason for going back in time to change things.

It's ironically enough one of her two victory lines that isn't grossly out of character for her. Her victory quotes against Marth and Ike are the real issue she has. They're so completely out of character that it's almost insulting.

Her biggest reason was probably, ya know, saving the world.

Still, I don't hear the quivering, but it is probably her second best line...take that as you will.

 

[Xelrog]

Lets not forget echoes are supposed to be the same any differences is bonus, we were told what to expect beforehand. There is a point to echoes like ritcher and Daisy they have fans and they would like to have there character in game not everyone is just about movesets they just want to be Mario beating the living crap out of characters like Donkey Kong and Pickachu.

I like Daisy as a character and am annoyed that there are functionally no differences between her and Peach.

If two characters are going to be literally identical then they should just be skins like Olimar/Alph. The fact that they aren't creates expectations, and I hope they modify the really identical ones like Daisy and Richter to be slightly more different in the future. Something as simple as Marth and Lucina's blade difference is more than enough. Even very simple numbers tweaks, something that would take minimal effort--but effort that was not put in.

 

[channel_KYX]

Daisy is where the problem begins. Everything about her is just the same and her animations can’t make up for it.

Gotta disagree on that one. All her non combat animations are amazing:
Standing
Idle
Victory
Taunts
On screen appearance

She is just spraying positivity aka I AM DAISY.

 

[Arthur97]

To make the echo thing worse, supposedly Sakurai said that because Villagers and Isabelle have significantly different proportions and personalities is why Isabelle wasn't an echo...despite that AC proportions are pretty similar and the personality thing applies to pretty much every echo. That is just...mind boggling and frustrating.

Source being a translated Famitsu column by Sourcegaming which, as much as I don't like them, seem to be touted as credible.

 

[Xelrog]

Isabelle is different enough to not be an echo, but there's a lot of obvious re-use with her. I would be more bothered about her if, say, Doctor Mario was an echo. I'd say even after the changes there are more similarities between him and Mario than Villager and Isabelle. And Pichu just has no excuse.

 

[Arthur97]

Isabelle is different enough to not be an echo, but there's a lot of obvious re-use with her. I would be more bothered about her if, say, Doctor Mario was an echo. I'd say even after the changes there are more similarities between him and Mario than Villager and Isabelle. And Pichu just has no excuse.

I think you misunderstand. The reason she wasn't made an echo was the aforementioned even though all the echoes have different personalities to the original. Seems more like an arbitrary excuse.

 

[Xelrog]

I agree that it's lousy logic, yes.

 

[Arthur97]

The lack of consistency with Echoes just makes it all so much worse.

 

[Xelrog]

I think most of them fall into the appropriate balance of "only slightly different." The only problems I feel are Pichu (who should be one but isn't) and the "not different at all" echoes.

They might as well just be skins. I'm hoping they're tweaked with more differences in future patches.

 

[Arthur97]

I think most of them fall into the appropriate balance of "only slightly different." The only problems I feel are Pichu (who should be one but isn't) and the "not different at all" echoes.

They might as well just be skins. I'm hoping they're tweaked with more differences in future patches.

You do realized that with the exceptions of Chrom, Lucina, and Ken, that the other echoes are mostly considered interchangeable, right? Most of them fall into that category. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have Doc who should be one and Ken who probably took more resources than any other echo. Maybe even combined.

 

[Xelrog]

Isn't that all of them save for Dark Samus? I think she's debatable. She moves a bit differently, particularly with the non-morph-ball dodge, but I certainly wouldn't mind her being a little more different as well.

 

[Khalith]

Tea baggers in online play. They removed taunts for a reason and it was decision I agree with.

 

[lucasla]

Mario not receiving an update on his moveset, to change the FLUDD for a Cappy throw, even having the same effect. It makes the moveset seems dated.

I also hate Peach's final Smash because I think it's boring. And Bayonetta final smash because it's just too long.

 

[Arthur97]

Isn't that all of them save for Dark Samus? I think she's debatable. She moves a bit differently, particularly with the non-morph-ball dodge, but I certainly wouldn't mind her being a little more different as well.

Dodges and slight different heights in like two attacks is not enough. And as far as personality, they are most certainly different.

 

[Xelrog]

Tea baggers in online play. They removed taunts for a reason and it was decision I agree with.

 

[Ze Diglett]

In terms of balancing, some Final Smashes and ATs are... suspect, to say the least. On one end, you have your Tikis and your Triforce of Wisdoms that are nigh impossible to play around, and on the other end, you have your Starfys and your Super Sonics that are basically complete duds. Add that to the god awful implementation of the new FS Meter and the fact that ATs can spawn while another AT is already in play, and I basically can't play with ATs or the FS Meter now because of how horribly some (read: most) of them are balanced.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

If so, it's totally missing the point. I never minded the Melee clones because they at least had all different stats than each other. These clones are just horribly lazy and I hate them. Why do we need both Simon and Richter when they are identical in all but a mostly irrelevant detail? Drop one of them and you lose nothing. Same for Daisy and Dark Samus.

At least give them different stats! Change their speed, change their launch angles, change the damage, CHANGE SOMETHING!! Make a multihit attack into a single hit, and make a single hit into a multi. Imagine if they made Dark Samus's attacks poison the opponent with Phazon. There is so much missed potential.

It's not really missing the point because that's what echoes are meant to be, alternate skins of the same moveset. They aren't lazy but rather extra additions to give the players a cosmetic choice; the irony would be that if they weren't there then people wouldn't even accuse them of lazy.
There is no loss in keeping them either so I don't get that silly mentality of dropping them. Just merge their portraits in the roster screen to fulfill the illusion of removing them and you'll be golden.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Annoyed that Dr. Mario and Pichu aren't echo fighters.

Annoyed that they didn't try and balance FS Meter FSes.

No hazard switch on stage select.

Also this.

Needing to reselect my character and skin after every match

Also this.

It's not really missing the point because that's what echoes are meant to be, alternate skins of the same moveset.

No, that's what...alternate skins are for. If echoes were meant to be alternate skins, then they'd just be like Alph.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

No, that's what...alternate skins are for. If echoes were meant to be alternate skins, then they'd just be like Alph.

Some of them essentially are, the difference is that they can have their own spot on the roster. Or not, depending on your settings.

 

[soviet prince]

I prefer own spot on the roster who give a crap if the moveset is similar or the same people forget this is a MASCOT fighter game

 

[Arthur97]

Uh, not sure either of those things were supposed to be balanced.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Uh, not sure either of those things were supposed to be balanced.

I'm honestly not sure if you were responding to me or not (we have quotes for a reason), but either way, aimed towards casuals =/= unbalanced to the point of being anti-fun to play with, and I'll never understand people who think that "casual" mechanics aren't supposed to be balanced even amongst themselves for whatever reason. Brawl hardly had any, if any unplayable ATs, and Smash 4 had a few that were unreasonably powerful, but not so many as to make the item unenjoyable. In Ultimate, that might as well be half of them, with the rest basically being complete jokes. (And I don't think I even need to go into why the FS Meter is so bad.)

 

[Furret24]

Removal of taunts was the worst change I have ever seen made in a Smash game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Removal of taunts was the worst change I have ever seen made in a Smash game.

I've said it before, but they should just rename them to Cheers and put them back in.

 

[Necro'lic]

I've said it before, but they should just rename them to Cheers and put them back in.

Best idea 10/10, give this man a medal. XD

 

[Xelrog]

It's not really missing the point because that's what echoes are meant to be, alternate skins of the same moveset.

No, alternate skins are alternate skins.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

No, alternate skins are alternate skins.

They are, but the concept of echoes is tied very close to it. Both Lucina and Pittoo started off as skins that eventually gained their own roster slot. Alph may or may have not been close to having his own slot as well.

 

[TheDuke54]

Something that bothers me is playing smash with cpu. They might not be as bad as brawl, as far as just targeting you goes, but they're nowhere near as good as Melee or Smash4. I started to notice the patterns pretty quickly and this crap gets old. I'm not the only candidate on the stage, attack the others. You cpu are just as bad as the taunt party kiddies.

You can be on the other side of the stage and they're hellbent on chasing you down and only you.