SSBB North Jersey TerraBite tournament 2 8/23/08

[-Blue-]

hmm.......well like my goal has always been. to prove that even the worst of characters can be usable in tourneys hasn't been recognized. so my quest continues and if ppl say that M2K will never lose to a sonic then that is my first and only goal, to beat M2K. sounds silly but it seems as though you all look up to one of the best brawlers maining the so called best character. If i EVER beat him i want no other excuse except that either dif startegies work on dif ppl or that tiers doesn't always determine a match. i can't persuade you otherwise so until next brawl tourney. enjoy conversating on problems that cant be resolved

 

[Inui]

Did you mess with the brackets at Terrabite 2 to give yourself a better chance at advancing in the tournament? Yes or no?

No.

@ Inui: I don't need you hating on me cause I stated stuff that I have heard or known cause I really did. If anything, next time I see some problems with the brackets or whatever I'll let you know personally instead of publically since it's causing you to get angry at the Keitaro and no one is supposed to hate the Keitaro. Plus I don't think anyone really cared about that long post I made earlier.

You still said false things and accused me of nonsense and have yet to apologize for doing so.

Addressing me in private via phone or something would be much better than your constant public bashing of me. It's becoming very irritating.

 

[Emblem Lord]

People are silly.

Fighting games aren't about combos.

It's about limiting your opponents options to make it easier to hit them.

Combos just make games more fun to watch.

 

[JesiahTEG]

People are silly.

Fighting games aren't about combos.

It's about limiting your opponents options to make it easier to hit them.

Combos just make games more fun to watch.

What do you know about fighting games?

 

[Teczer0]

You also lost to Tec0 0-2 at that tournament. Are you aware that tec0 played Brawl for a grand total of a WEEK before he went to that tournament? Are you aware that the advice he got from Atomsk was nothing more then "swallow when he spins" and "turn around grab when he dairs other side of shield"?

For the record Atomsk didn't give me that advice.

His advice was however very useful (especially for the 5 second time frame I gave him for him to give me this advice)

Holding down the B button and shield grabbing d-airs and up-tilting d-airs are stuff I discovered during the match. Also I never played as Sonic or fought a sonic ever until I fought Blue.......

>_>

 

[BlackWaltzX]

The point of being able to adapt quickly is shown greater with this example. **** you Eazy for starting this in a tourney result thread.

 

[Keitaro]

The point of being able to adapt quickly is shown greater with this example. **** you Eazy for starting this in a tourney result thread.

When Waltz curses I imagine a pissed off Olimar throwing Pikmin getting angry as ****, lol!!

 

[Zankoku]

People are silly.

Fighting games aren't about combos.

It's about limiting your opponents options to make it easier to hit them.

Combos just make games more fun to watch.

Actually, fighting games are all about mashing 2A.

 

[Eggm]

There about having fun while competing which no one does playing brawl. So everyone should play melee!! Just main falcon for 3 months, and win a tournament match by doing a throw to knee combo. I guarantee your hooked after that. If your not your not human.

 

[Eazy23]

The point of being able to adapt quickly is shown greater with this example. **** you Eazy for starting this in a tourney result thread.

lol as opposed to it dying? No onoe would even talk about this thread if it weren't for the Eazy!


Blue- wtf is your problem? How do you feel enslaved to the tier list? You pick whichever character YOU WANT TO PICK. If anything you are the rebel, going against the majority. We would be the enslaved ones...
N Spam's words were great. Any decent player in melee, EVER lose to someone playing for a week?
I remember being at a zenith tourny in NY. Copycat had to play jash in singles. He came to mog asking for advice vs young link. None of it worked, because it takes experience to win in melee, As of now, it is rare to win those kind of matches in brawl. Why do people even argue it? It is simple logic, if a character is better than another character, that character should win in this game because it lacks depth.....

Some people are amazing, play extremely boring, or get lucky. Sometimes a combination of the three are present when people get weird wins but yes, it CAN happen, but dont expect people to take these instances and call them the norm.

If you choose to play a low tier char, that is FINE. You are forcing yourself to have to try much harder than everyone else. I main marth!!!! Fighting metaknight is the gayest thing I ever do. If I don't space perfectly the whole match, I LOSE. If I make a risky move offstage, I LOSE. Does meta have to worry about those things the way I do? NOPE!

That is the logic of it, if your character is better, you have less to worry about. I don't see why you want people to put themselves, and their potential money at risk just to make things more aesthetically appealing.

Sports, games, any type of competition all derive from a war mentality. If winning is not the most important thing to you, than you probably won't win very much. Yes it sucks that people will play gay, pick broken characters, but in the end its for the win.

I want to win, I now pick broken characters. When I'm playing for fun, who do I use? Ask any of my friends.

Start your own fawk high tier tournies if you want to see other characters used or something,. Stop b!tching about what everyone else is doing. Don't ask someone to make the same stupid mistake you are making. Don't be dumb and ask for m2k first round. This is like dark peach 2008

You have to be bloodthirsty, and cut throat. That is one of the reasons that I really respect inui as a player. He is CUTTHROAT!!! He wants to win above all else. Why doon't you guys see that this is the attitude needed 2 win a tournament? Spam will plank the **** out of you BECAUSE IT WILL GET HIM THE WIN.
Please stop crying about ****ty characters not being ****ty etc. Just win.

 

[Pierce7d]

stuff

You just won second place on this thread, and that's only because Spammer already holds the gold.

 

[Teczer0]

Well Copycat might have lost to Jash cuz of the person he went to advice for

jk jk

Eazy - Your fat.

Btw I agree with everything Spam said. At that tourney there is no way I should have placed 5th in a tournament of 40+ people.

And I almost beat D1 who I consider far better than me.

... Yay MK?

 

[Eazy23]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO yea u shudn go 2 someone who cant complete 100 man melee for jash advice huh ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[_Yes!_]

Teh Spamerer

Level: 99

hp: 9001

mp: His **** via posting is magical.

Armor Class: Impenetrable Logic

Strength: Strong enough to **** your face.

Intelligence: Smart enough to **** your mind.

Charisma: Charismatic enough to get people to hate your logic.

Special Ability: ***** forum users with multiquotes.

...
How can anyone defeat such a power???

 

[Eazy23]

I know the secret, but only those with mp over 9000 can execute the move.
Seeing as tho I'm the only one on smashboards besides scar and spam with such an mp.....no point in me releasing the info right now.

 

[Pierce7d]

*looks at his 8764 MP and frowns.

 

[Eazy23]

Just kill a couple more of these.

what is it anyone?
no cheatin

 

[teh_spamerer]

That is a picture of a most VILE creature known as a Behemoth.

 

[_Yes!_]

king behemoth from ffx which can be found in zanarkand the second time you go there. :D

 

[bajisci]

awww yes beat me to it they gave good xp ^_^

 

[ELI-mination]

Quit life... that's a regular behemoth which is first encountered in the caves of Mt. Gagazet. Learn yo ****, son.

 

[Mew2King]

any advantage in tiers is basically undone by matchup experience

 

[fkacyan]

Lol the same Behemoth can be found in FFIX, first fighting it in the cages in Treno and then I think you can fight them in terra and memoria

 

[Rhyme]

Aww man, it must be quote week today. Sadly the only quotes I've really been reading are ones directed towards me from Rhyme. You gotta see the video dude!: http://www.cbs.com/primetime/surviv...Pg5IuZ5PTNasGmQ0Vz3EEoa6frNs9K&play=true&cc=0

That is amazing. And he was right about the look on our faces, haha.

Not opinions. I'm stating facts.

A lot of what you're saying has completely different interpretations which are completely valid. Maybe you should consider changing the way that you present your information.

I said PLANKING METAKNIGHT, not just Metaknight. I don't give a **** if M2K thinks running at your opponent and attacking is more fun then planking, it's NOT more effective. Cort's rustier than Atomsk's bike that's been left outside for a year and a half.

I'm not sure exactly what that word means, but I do get the feeling it has to do with playing very campy/defensively. I would consider that "excessively stalling during a match", which can get a person DQed.

I also don't care if top 5 split the pot what the results are. M2K went Dedede vs Chu's Kirby when he was told before the set that Kirby counters Dedede.

He still lost to NinjaLink's Diddy before he was told that there were plans to split the pot.

I'll listen to opinions as long as they're supported by FACTUAL evidence.

My opinions aren't supported by evidence in the way that you seem to demand, but they are supported by logic. For someone like you, I would have thought this to be enough.

More Melee viable characters then Brawl viable characters was the point.

That's an opinion. If you're in the majority then it's a majority opinion.

Actually, in ninth grade Algebra you learn stuff like x+2=5, x=5-2, x=3. However, in TENTH grade geometry you learn that one counterexample is all it takes to prove at theorem false. Mathematics courses you obviously didn't take aside, the point was that in Melee, at LEAST low tiers could death combo spacies as well as other high tiers. What low tiers in Brawl are EVER going to death combo high tiers? None, which is why I didn't list out every single example.

My appologies. I was in an advanced Math program and that's what I learned in my ninth grade. But you're right, it is technically tenth grade Geometry according to most curriculums.

Sorry, I forgot that death combos even existed in Melee five months after it's release. But it doesn't matter which low tiers cannot combo to death in Brawl because most high tiers in Brawl cannot combo to death. The low tiers do not need to in order for their to be balance in that aspect.

Of course, according to Cactuar, combos need not exist to beat your opponent if you're good at landing consecutive hits.

The first 10 seconds of this match disagrees with your assessment that Zelda wasn't ever going to combo anyone to death in Melee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5AMWRNmSQ

Or we could talk 'not true' combos, in which case any character would be capable enough.

I already agreed that this type of consecutive hit combo, which Cactuar uses, is possible by all characters in Melee AND in Brawl. That video does not help you prove your point at all.

She can also CG spacies. G&W also has pretty respectable combos vs spacies IIRC, I'd link to Dire's Melee combo video but I can't find it.

Yoshi can grab release MK, getting him reasonable percentage or a setup for Usmash depending on percentage. Samus' spacing is not thrown off by Snake's grenades or tilts, making him an even matchup for her (much the same as G&W's relationship to the spacies in Melee).

You don't have to show me the video, I've seen it and I've seen and played Dire, so I already know what you're talking about.

Except in Brawl bad characters can't limit the hell out of their opponents options the way good characters can by doing almost nothing. Snake can stand in front of your shield and if you're Mario you can't do **** about that if he's spaced properly.

Mario could learn not to throw up his shield in that circumstance. He also has fireballs, FLUDD, and his cape that he can use to disrupt Snake's spacing. It's not end-all just because Snake exists.

I've never heard of either of them beating big names at big tournaments or placing high. IF they have, please link me to the thread and/or vids of this. Tudor's Brawl "combo" video was a joke. 95+% of what he did was EASILY escapable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2IYvnjn5A: I do not believe that he won the set, and I have no idea on his opponent's skill level. I only threw his name out there because there was a little note on Ankoku's list next to Falcon that read something like "**** you RoyR".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U6iFKZnrTI: Tudor doesn't have any recent matches so far as I can tell, but he's done a good job in all the matches that I've seen of him, and he's widely regarded on the Samus sub-forum as one of the best Samus users.

No, that IS the case. Learning characters is easy as HELL in Brawl. Because I have TRIED as hard as possible to make this game fun, I have played with every character. I perused all the specific character boards and played basically every character in the game for a decent amount of time. Bad characters are just bad. There is no way around it.

Just because you can't pick up all the characters does not mean that they are all bad. It just means that they are bad in your opinion.

"Don't get hit" - Isai. You don't want to get hit, you want to be safe at all times. Low tiers are VERY bad at keeping themselves safe in this game. This is because they have bad pokes, they suck at defending themselves from camping and suck at camping, or a combination of all three. Most of them also happen to suck at killing, but that wouldn't matter that much if they were good at the others.

Well yeah, no character wants to get hit. But player experience can go a long way in helping you position your character so that you don't get hit. An experienced player would also know how to react (DI, shield, whatever) when hit to avoid being hit again.

They DO suck compared to broken tier. Jigglypuff has gay camping, M2K says her fair has a good amount of shieldstun and is almost as gay as her Melee fair, she has drillrest, a good dash grab, and a good dash attack but she's STILL mediocre compared to broken tier. She's not that bad on gay stages and possibly pretty good in teams, but that's it.

That's not a factual reason for her sucking, it just shows that she's not quite as good and that there isn't a player we've found yet who can use her potential.

Really good as in good enough to beat anyone else. My bad, I left a comma out after R1. The segment should read as "unless they're fighting Mew2King R1, they can win if they're really good."

This is NJ, most of those people aren't here. The only person in this state who is a guaranteed loss is M2K. Everyone else is beatable. Also, if someone takes say BlackWaltz to R3 last hit and then takes someone else good to R3 last hit they're going to be seeded better in the next bracket. You have to do something to prove that you're good. You can't just expect the community to know exactly how skilled you are unless you do something to prove it. Beating mediocre people isn't proving anything.

That comma was oh-so-important, lol. And I realize that people like BlackWaltz and Atmosk might not be M2K quality, but they are solid players who would give many other players a good challenge. Losing to one of them in R3 could be very likely and unfortunate, and could happen to another respectfully skilled player.

I don't believe that random players have earned the right to a good seed just like I don't believe that good players have earned the right to a good seed. Having it random allows new players a shot every once in a while and also forces these good players to proove themselves time and time again which, if they are good and consistant as we like to believe, should not be a problem for them.

Ok? You still have to predict how your opponent is going to DI. If they DI off the stage and you fthrow you can't follow it up with anything and if they DI on the stage and you upthrow you don't have a kill. I prefer this a lot more then "oh I hit them above me, they are either going to airdodge or try and beat [insert move here that they can't beat that does pathetic damage and doesn't lead into anything devastating at all]"

I like being rewarded with giving my opponent more then 10% and a hand written note by Sakurai saying "Have fun camping more until they hit you one time again!"

In your above scenario: they either DI away and out of your combo or DI in and you can re-grab/dtilt/Utilt depending on percentage (but you know their percentage when you grabbed them, so you're not making a decision of which move to use (that has been made already by the percentage), you are making a decision based on DI alone.) If the DI away, they will either second jump sweetspot or try to overB to the stage/ledge. OverB is blocked by tapA followed by dropping off, fairing, and edgehogging. Second jump sweetspot is countered by edgehog to either stand up counter or drop off Bair, followed by an edgehog. You can either have insane reaction speed or guess. In either case, the edgeguard for the gimp KO followed the formula "If this then this, else this".

I find it more rewarding to earn each hit, similar to how Cactuar would earn each hit in his gameplay. Brawl forces players to earn each hit because there is no set list of actions to run through each time.

Actually, it DOES work like that because when you AREN'T being hit you can do more. You actually can APPROACH and safely hit people's shields with more then just pokes that don't lead to anything substantial. You can move around on platforms with wavelanding, which is a whole new option of movement. Wavedash - Whole new option of movement. From the ledge, you can actually drop off the ledge immediately the moment you grab it so you can jump up with an attack while you're invincible for part of the duration or waveland up with an attack. Wavelanding up perfectly to keep as many invincibility frames as possible isn't easy for a lot of characters so it's more to give you more ways to attack then anything else.

Melee has more offensive options while Brawl has more defensive options. I find that because Brawl has a simpler way of moving, you need to read and predict your opponent far more accurately than you ever had to in Melee (especially with the removal of most sex kicks).

Yeah, Rhyme really doesn't know what he's talking about it seems.

I have seen and played in matches against players at a very high skill level. I don't need to be on par with these players to understand how their gameplay works. Just because my ideas are different does not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I CAN'T COMBO, AND I AM A TOP LEVEL PLAYER... My knowledge of smash is centered around knowing how to hit people. If you can learn how to do this, you don't need to combo.

That's exactly what Brawl is. You learn how to hit people with consistancy over multiple different encounters. It continues to confuse me that people cannot see the beauty of this game yet.

So what? HE PLAYED THE GAME FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF A WEEK! In any GOOD competitive game, if you've been practicing for months you don't lose to someone who played the game for a WEEK who was told to do TWO things. If you can't acknowledge that it's stupid that someone who played the game for ONE WEEK got 5th place and beat people who have been playing for months then there is no point arguing with you.

Did you watch women's tennis yesterday? Ivanovic, ranked number one in the world, lost to Coin, a player whose first tour event was this tournament, and who is ranked number 188. This player came out of nowhere, had far less experience, and took out a seasoned player in what is now being considered the largest upset in woman's tennis to date.

It doesn't matter how little you've been playing a game. Tennis is far more competitive than Melee even. The unexpected can happen. Not that it does often, but it can.

How can anyone defeat such a power???

By feeling that they are correct and not giving in. I did laugh when I read your post though, good stuff.

**As I believe I mentioned, I don't consider my points to be necessarily 'factual'. I consider them to be opinions which are supported by logic, and therefore viable. Just don't go saying I'm wrong only because you disagree.

 

[teh_spamerer]

A lot of what you're saying has completely different interpretations which are completely valid. Maybe you should consider changing the way that you present your information.

No. What I'm saying is correct. You don't have to like it but that doesn't make it wrong.

I'm not sure exactly what that word means, but I do get the feeling it has to do with playing very campy/defensively. I would consider that "excessively stalling during a match", which can get a person DQed.

oovideogamegodoo: i made up a new term yesterday
oovideogamegodoo: i told eggm and cactuar
oovideogamegodoo: when you ledge camp
oovideogamegodoo: its called planking

You aren't going to get DQed for planking unless scrubs are running the tournament.

He still lost to NinjaLink's Diddy before he was told that there were plans to split the pot.

Because he wasn't planking at all in the match and he got gayed on Delfino. As I said, I do not care about evidence of people losing with Meta Knight when they weren't planking.

My opinions aren't supported by evidence in the way that you seem to demand, but they are supported by logic. For someone like you, I would have thought this to be enough.

They are not supported by sound logic.

That's an opinion. If you're in the majority then it's a majority opinion.

That's like saying Snake is a viable character is an opinion. It's not. It's a fact. If you don't believe facts then you're wrong, end of story.

My appologies. I was in an advanced Math program and that's what I learned in my ninth grade. But you're right, it is technically tenth grade Geometry according to most curriculums.

It doesn't matter what you call it, you don't learn about proving anything in basic Algebra. You learn about mind numbingly simple stuff.

You also obviously were not in an advanced English program .

Sorry, I forgot that death combos even existed in Melee five months after it's release. But it doesn't matter which low tiers cannot combo to death in Brawl because most high tiers in Brawl cannot combo to death. The low tiers do not need to in order for their to be balance in that aspect.

Most high tiers have SOME basic combos. Metaknight has repeated upairs to up b or dtilt trip to something. Snake doesn't need any though he can ftilt you into something that blows up. ROB can do combos at low dmg with fair, dtilt trip into something, or glidetoss gyro into an attack. Diddy has bananas, I don't think I need to elaborate on that. Falco has CG to spike, which makes him assrape all of the low tiers mercilessly. Dedede can CG a lot of them. Not to mention that all of these characters limit the HELL out of their opponents options by putting in practically no effort. People like Link, Ganondorf, Falcon, Ness, etc. not only cannot limit their opponents options but they can't do basic combos. Well Ganon can with side B on some characters but since he sucks so hardcore it doesn't matter.

Of course, according to Cactuar, combos need not exist to beat your opponent if you're good at landing consecutive hits.

In general, in fighting games the entire engine is boiled down to two things:

The Push and Pull: This is where we encounter the term "mind games" most often. It is everything you do to manipulate your opponent, control space on the stage, creating openings to enable you to land either individual blows or combo starters, how you react and pressure shields, etc.

The Punishment: The end result of all push and pull games. Ranging from individual hits to death combos.

In smash, we still have the same basic fighter concept, and are given an additional component:

The Edge: Encompasses all things related to killing your opponent off the sides and bottom of the stage through guarding the edge. This is where we see gimping most often.

For the Smash series, we have seen the balance shift between the push and pull and the punishment.

In 64, there was a heavy reliance on the combo game, making the push and pull less important than being able to consistently death combo the enemy. The only real importance of the push and pull was to make sure you could land one hit before the enemy. (This is a slightly overstated )

In Melee, there was a balance between the push and pull, and the combo game was significantly more balanced with the addition of DI and the reduction of shield stun. There were so many options regarding movement available that the push and pull became equally important as being able to properly execute the punishment.

In Brawl, we see a huge imbalance in the gameplay. The push and pull game has become far more important than the punishment game, as there is such a weak overall combo system. The problem here is that, while they made the push and pull game so much more important, they slowed down the overall game play and removed many of the movement options, and even inserted an unremoveable random variable (tripping) to further gimp movement. Because of this slower pace, the game becomes boring to watch, as we spend more time in the push and pull, then when we manage to initiate the punishment, there is an epic anti-climactic moment because the opponent can't be punished to an extent that would be fair for their mistake. The game is so oriented towards rewarding camping that, competitively, we will likely see projectile characters stand as far away as possible, then shoot as many things as possible until the opponent approaches, at which point they will exchange very little damage, then resume camping. Close range characters have had their options reduced, as players are punished for approaching by running(your only options from run are to dash attack, grab, or jump. Shielding from run puts you at a disadvantage due to the removal of the first frame running shield and the new lagged shield.), and most characters have a disadvantage by approaching from above. Shield grabbing has been upgraded, given the very small amount of shield hit stun from any move, and at the same time ruined because of the inability to combo out of grab, aside from the few characters that now have nearly skill-less chaingrabs.

I will stop at this point, only because the my purpose here is to explain the imbalance of Brawl and why the mechanisms in this game prevent it from being reasonably viable on a competitive level. Sure, they may continue to play the game in tournament and it may even become big, but it doesn't mean it should be. Brawl has ruined all of the work that we, the melee community, put into getting Smash recognized as a fighting game. Brawl is a platformer party game, not a fighting game.

I already agreed that this type of consecutive hit combo, which Cactuar uses, is possible by all characters in Melee AND in Brawl. That video does not help you prove your point at all.

Hahahahaha. This was pretty funny because NOBODY in Brawl is going to combo like that. 4 hit death combo off the side? Nope, not gonna happen.

Yoshi can grab release MK, getting him reasonable percentage or a setup for Usmash depending on percentage. Samus' spacing is not thrown off by Snake's grenades or tilts, making him an even matchup for her (much the same as G&W's relationship to the spacies in Melee).

Yoshi builds damage from grab attacks that are stale and will do little damage. It's also easier to mash out of grabs in this game and that doesn't work on any stage with platforms unless Meta gets grab released between platforms, which isn't going to happen that often.

Samus gets ***** up the *** by Snake. Crawling > zair and stopping boostsmash is a pain. Not to mention he's so **** heavy and Samus SUCKS at killing.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? G&W vs spacies is ANYTHING but even.

You don't have to show me the video, I've seen it and I've seen and played Dire, so I already know what you're talking about.

So then why did you say G&W is never going to do death combos?

Mario could learn not to throw up his shield in that circumstance. He also has fireballs, FLUDD, and his cape that he can use to disrupt Snake's spacing. It's not end-all just because Snake exists.

Actually, it IS end-all because Snake exists. FLUDD is terrible and Snake can react and shield it, which will send him nowhere. Cape comes out too slow and doesn't have enough range. Fireballs are easy to powershield. He gets MASSACRED by Snake. Powershield fireballs to get close and once you get close he can't do ANYTHING about the range advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2IYvnjn5A: I do not believe that he won the set, and I have no idea on his opponent's skill level. I only threw his name out there because there was a little note on Ankoku's list next to Falcon that read something like "**** you RoyR".

That was a TERRIBLE match. Ice Climbers **** Falcon. The Icies in that match didn't CG properly and they didn't desynch properly. Slowly advancing with one Icy doing blizzard and the other one uptilt = ***** Falcon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U6iFKZnrTI: Tudor doesn't have any recent matches so far as I can tell, but he's done a good job in all the matches that I've seen of him, and he's widely regarded on the Samus sub-forum as one of the best Samus users.

I stopped watching after I noticed that the FIRST time the G&W used back air was 46 seconds into the match and he used dash attack a few times before that.

Just because you can't pick up all the characters does not mean that they are all bad. It just means that they are bad in your opinion.

No, I know how to use them. They just suck. I really dislike bringing up my personal experiences because I prefer arguing with logic and facts but you're not leaving me any choice when you say I don't know how to use characters so.... Things I've done with low tiers that have absolutely no impact on them not sucking big floppy donkey ****

IP = In person
WFC = over wifi with very little or no lag

Ganondorf
WFC - Beat Atomsk's Lucario on Castle Siege in a 2 stock match(it started as an FFA but Bajisci and Orion died with Atomsk at 3 stock high and me at 2 stock 13%, he SDed immediately
WFC - I beat Orion's no laser no CG Falco with Ganondorf
WFC - I beat Eazy's Falcon with Ganondorf(few times)
WFC - I beat Bajisci's Kirby with Ganondorf

Falcon(4/19/2008)
IP - Beat Eazy's DK in a set 2-1 all on FD
IP - Beat Inui in a Falcon ditto color match 2-0
IP - Beat Daryl(sp?) in a Falcon ditto set 2-0

Sonic
IP - JV 2 stocked or last stock very low % Inui's Marth on FD with Sonic
IP - Beat Dave/Izumi's Toon Link last stock ~45% on Delfino Plaza with Sonic in a free round robin tournament

Link
I could list what I did or just tell you

You make Link at least mid tier

Hx0r1337 (2:52:00 AM): no more likn pl0x ^_^
RedAxelRanger (2:55:29 AM): i hate bad characters that are annoying
Hx0r1337 (2:55:37 AM): /cough link
Hx0r1337 (3:05:24 AM): ur link is so annoyng -_-
Hx0r1337 (3:17:45 AM): camp more
RedAxelRanger (3:17:58 AM): hey im link
RedAxelRanger (3:18:01 AM): im allowed to camp
Hx0r1337 (3:26:36 AM): ok no more link
Hx0r1337 (3:26:37 AM): please
Hx0r1337 (3:26:47 AM): ur link is more annoying then marths that only use dancing swords
Hx0r1337 (3:26:52 AM): srsly
Hx0r1337 (3:44:33 AM): much more fun then playing a stupid green *** that throws bombs for 7 minutes
Hx0r1337 (3:45:31 AM): f this
Hx0r1337 (3:45:40 AM): u can stay tl idc
Hx0r1337 (3:45:45 AM): link is more annoying then TL
Hx0r1337 (3:46:07 AM): link zair and bombs + teh spamerer skill = annoying
Hx0r1337 (4:12:52 AM): im beyond bored
Hx0r1337 (4:12:53 AM): of this game
RedAxelRanger (4:13:10 AM): its cuz u told me
RedAxelRanger (4:13:13 AM): to switch off link
Hx0r1337 (4:13:18 AM): lolololol
Hx0r1337 (4:13:26 AM): thats only reason i kept going was cause u switched
Hx0r1337 (4:13:28 AM): i was ready to quit
Hx0r1337 (4:13:29 AM): bak then

Your Link is pretty cool

Pokemon Trainer
IP - Ivysaur/Charizard beat Atomsk's Sonic on Batlefield
WFC - Beat Orion's no laser Falco
WFC - Beat Yes' Snake(I have the replay saved too )

Ness
Sucks. I used to main him then dropped him cuz he's terrible. He has 3 moves that are good. I'd list stuff for him but it's just waaay too old

Sexy Samus <3<3
OMG hooray she actually has a few combos!

IP - End of a teams match came down to my Samus at 140 vs Inui's Snake at 0 on Lylat. Ended with him at 130ish and me getting uptilted. He was dumb as hell tho and didn't crawl or boostsmash.

WFC - ***** THE BALLS off Bajisci's DK

Yoshi
WFC - Got raaaaaaaaaped massively by Ryoko. This really could go for most of my low tiers but daaaaamn I only got close like 1/30 matches when I hardcore camped when losing.

WFC - Beat Orion's Falco

Mario
WFC - Won slightly more then I lost to Yes' Wolf.
WFC - Beat Atomsk's ROB
WFC - Did decent vs Bajisci's ROB

Boozer
IP - Beat Atomsk's Ike on Pictochat
IP - Beat Atomsk's Ivysaur/Charizard on Castle Siege
IP - Beat Atomsk's Ness on Delfino Plaza
IP - Beat Atomsk's Lucas somewhere
IP - Took Inui's camping Snake to last stock mid-high IIRC playing dumb

WFC - Beat Yes' Wolf numerous times
WFC - JV 3 stocked Yes' Fox once(I have the replay) and beat it numerous times
WFC - Beat Yes' Captain Falcon every match except one where I killed myself twice
WFC - Beat Yes' Snake 90+% of the matches

Jigglypuff
IP - Beat Matra's Metaknight and Eazy's Falco in a 2v1 starting with everyone at last stock 0 or low on Pokemon Stadium in tournament
IP - Beat Snakeee and Shadow in a 2v1 on Delfino Plaza staring with Snakeee at ~20 w/me and Shadow at low and everyone on last stock. Ended with me singing Shadow to sleep and the stage going up when I was at 80 and he was at 40. Yes, this was in tournament
IP - Beat Atomsk's Dedede and Yes' Snake on a 2v1 on Delfino, can't remember what %s we all started on our last stocks in tournament.
IP - Beat Shadow's Metaknight on Brinstar in tournament
IP - Beat Inui's Marth on Frigate Orpheon in tournament
IP - Came back from last stock 0 when Inui was at 3 stock 100% on Halberd to take the match to last stock high in tournament
IP - Lost on Corneria to Inui's Marth last stock high % because I let go of the wing ledge by accident in tournament.
IP - Beat dmbrandon when it came down to me vs him in teams on Delfino in Jiggs vs Metaknight in tournament
IP - Beat HolyChef's Marth on Delfino in tournament

See, I know how to use those characters. Too bad they SUCK.

Well yeah, no character wants to get hit. But player experience can go a long way in helping you position your character so that you don't get hit. An experienced player would also know how to react (DI, shield, whatever) when hit to avoid being hit again.

No amount of player experience is going to change the fact that

Low tiers are VERY bad at keeping themselves safe in this game. This is because they have bad pokes, they suck at defending themselves from camping and suck at camping, or a combination of all three. Most of them also happen to suck at killing, but that wouldn't matter that much if they were good at the others.

That's not a factual reason for her sucking, it just shows that she's not quite as good and that there isn't a player we've found yet who can use her potential.

She is a limited character. That's a fact. I have used her extensively in tournaments and done well sometimes. She still isn't good.

That comma was oh-so-important, lol. And I realize that people like BlackWaltz and Atmosk might not be M2K quality, but they are solid players who would give many other players a good challenge. Losing to one of them in R3 could be very likely and unfortunate, and could happen to another respectfully skilled player.

They are both beatable. Sure you(and I'm using the word you here to talk about people in general) can also lose to them but that doesn't make them unwinnable people to fight.

I don't believe that random players have earned the right to a good seed just like I don't believe that good players have earned the right to a good seed. Having it random allows new players a shot every once in a while and also forces these good players to proove themselves time and time again which, if they are good and consistant as we like to believe, should not be a problem for them.

No, having it random is bad for everyone. I already explained this.

Randomly generating the bracket means three possible horrible things can happen.

1) Crewmates, doubles partners, and people who play each other all the time might end up playing each other early on in the bracket.

2) The best players at the tournament might all be clumped together. Not only is this bad for them but it is also bad for everyone who got sent into the losers bracket

3) Someone might get all the people who would have ended up last if the bracket was seeded and get 3rd because of having a free ticket to winners finals

You know what else sucks when the best players at the tournament get clumped together?

Some good people get knocked into losers and then the bad/decent people get screwed over. This is VERY bad for those people you say are good and haven't proven themselves because now they'll place like garbage.

In your above scenario: they either DI away and out of your combo or DI in and you can re-grab/dtilt/Utilt depending on percentage (but you know their percentage when you grabbed them, so you're not making a decision of which move to use (that has been made already by the percentage), you are making a decision based on DI alone.) If the DI away, they will either second jump sweetspot or try to overB to the stage/ledge. OverB is blocked by tapA followed by dropping off, fairing, and edgehogging. Second jump sweetspot is countered by edgehog to either stand up counter or drop off Bair, followed by an edgehog. You can either have insane reaction speed or guess. In either case, the edgeguard for the gimp KO followed the formula "If this then this, else this".

Falco and Fox can sweetspot the ledge without getting hit when Marth jabs. I'd argue against the rest of it but the fact that you just don't know these simple things means that it's a waste of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTnXA5SRyXM

Yes, he memorized at 13% that he could do this combo to 117% exactly. He memorized every single option for how you could DI and punish. Oh wait, no he DIDN'T do any of that. Memorizing exactly what %'s to do various different combos at with every single possibility of what could happen is a collosal waste of time. I'm not going to memorize to do different things at 0, 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, so on and so forth to high %. I just have a good general idea of what %s what moves can lead to combos. When comboing space animals with Falco, you have the option to end your combo at 40 with fsmash and if they DI wrong they could die. You could keep your combo going. On stages that transform or move when you hit your opponent you have to be able to react to the movement or the transformation or your combo could end.

I find it more rewarding to earn each hit, similar to how Cactuar would earn each hit in his gameplay. Brawl forces players to earn each hit because there is no set list of actions to run through each time.

Yeah, there being a banana on the other side of your shield and you getting hit in that direction and tripping WHILE YOUR SHIELD IS UP is really making that Diddy player EARN his attacks. Hitting your opponent once and planking for 7 minutes is really difficult to do. Ftilting out of shield with Snake is not at all a good strategy.

Melee has more offensive options while Brawl has more defensive options. I find that because Brawl has a simpler way of moving, you need to read and predict your opponent far more accurately than you ever had to in Melee (especially with the removal of most sex kicks).

Yeah, I think tripping is a pretty simple way of movement myself. I especially like how you can't shield in the initial dash and how turning around in the middle of a dash takes time. That was an amazing inclusion into Brawl. Melee has defensive options that Brawl doesn't have. Wavedashing out of shield. Crouch cancelling(BIG MASSIVE HUGE DEFENSIVE OPTION.) You can predict your opponent and trip into Snake's fsmash and die at 30%. You can hit someone off the stage and trip when you go to edgeguard. You can get footstooled by someone who has no second jump and die at 0. Or you could just eliminate the possibility of any of those things happening by planking for the majority of the match.

I have seen and played in matches against players at a very high skill level. I don't need to be on par with these players to understand how their gameplay works. Just because my ideas are different does not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know what you're talking about. It has nothing to do with your ideas being different, what you're saying is flat out wrong. Melee has more viable characters. Low tiers are bad in Brawl.

That's exactly what Brawl is. You learn how to hit people with consistancy over multiple different encounters. It continues to confuse me that people cannot see the beauty of this game yet.

There is no beauty in camping SLOWLY for the entire match because there is no point in attacking.

Did you watch women's tennis yesterday? Ivanovic, ranked number one in the world, lost to Coin, a player whose first tour event was this tournament, and who is ranked number 188. This player came out of nowhere, had far less experience, and took out a seasoned player in what is now being considered the largest upset in woman's tennis to date.

Coin played at Clemson University, where she was an All-American, All-ACC, and ACC Player of the Year[7]. She also holds numerous Clemson Womens' Tennis record

See this? It proves that she played for longer then a week.

It doesn't matter how little you've been playing a game. Tennis is far more competitive than Melee even. The unexpected can happen. Not that it does often, but it can.

She played for more then a week. Tec0 only got 5th because he played smart. If one week's worth of experience is all it takes to get 5th and beat people who played for months that shows the game is remarkably shallow.

**As I believe I mentioned, I don't consider my points to be necessarily 'factual'. I consider them to be opinions which are supported by logic, and therefore viable. Just don't go saying I'm wrong only because you disagree.

Except they aren't opinions. Characters that have bad pokes and suck at dealing with camping are not good. That is NOT disputable.

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar's theory on the mechanics of fighting games is brilliant.

My previous post was not a justification of a lack of punishment game in brawl. It was to point out that all pro players in melee don't do ridiculous combos. I am successful because I am exceptional at push and pull and overall player vs player combat. In melee, players have the option to get good at whatever aspects of the game they really want to and can still be a tournament threat. In brawl, no matter how good you get at the punishment aspect of the game, someone who is good at the push and pull will beat you. The path of learning in the brawl is very straightforward and imo lacks depth. Character imbalance only adds to my opinion on this.

But yeah, I don't really feel like having a brawl vs melee discussion. Play all the brawl you want.

 

[Teczer0]

The god of multiquoting has spoken.

And made my scroll bar practically not visible.

Usually I would probably wanna ignore them.

BUT I can't ignore him because he posts meaningful things.

Man what a dilemma.

>_____________________>

 

[Turbo Ether]

Spam's last post made me wanna ebay my Wii and copy of Brawl.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

All I know is that Brawl is better than Melee because Olimar is in Brawl.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

All i know is my Fox ***** in brawl and doesn't fail.

 

[_Yes!_]

Fox is almost as fun to use as Captain Falcon. And that's saying ALOT coming from me.

Get at spam's amazing **** posts xD

 

[Mew2King]

Cactuar, since you rely on hits here and there and putting people in bad situations instead of long combos, Brawl would be perfect for you. You should play.

 

[_Yes!_]

Cactuar, since you rely on hits here and there and putting people in bad situations instead of long combos, Brawl would be perfect for you. You should play.

But in Brawl there's a high chance of getting punished for landing hits.

 

[fkacyan]

Cactuar, since you rely on hits here and there and putting people in bad situations instead of long combos, Brawl would be perfect for you. You should play.

Holy **** lol xD

 

[Keitaro]

Cactuar, play Diddy and you'll have fun :D

 

[Cactuar]

I'm sorry, but Diddy is a stupid character. I don't enjoy watching Diddy players at all. Characters with heavy projectile use have never been my thing.

I said this before, I don't want to get into a Melee vs Brawl debate. There is too much stuff in Brawl that I do not like.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Cactuar, play Diddy and you'll have fun :D

Cactuar's assessment of Diddy is correct. Diddy vs ppl playing gay is just camping with bananas. I mean he's funny vs ppl who don't because of his shenanigans but he isn't really fun.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Cactuar's theory on the mechanics of fighting games is brilliant.

My previous post was not a justification of a lack of punishment game in brawl. It was to point out that all pro players in melee don't do ridiculous combos. I am successful because I am exceptional at push and pull and overall player vs player combat. In melee, players have the option to get good at whatever aspects of the game they really want to and can still be a tournament threat. In brawl, no matter how good you get at the punishment aspect of the game, someone who is good at the push and pull will beat you. The path of learning in the brawl is very straightforward and imo lacks depth. Character imbalance only adds to my opinion on this.

But yeah, I don't really feel like having a brawl vs melee discussion. Play all the brawl you want.

Why not practice combos then? It can't hurt at all and it will only make you better.

 

[Cactuar]

Because I choose not to and I enjoy my playstyle. Getting better has never been a concern of mine. I play to have fun, not to win. The point of my previous statement was that players can choose whatever path they want. Brawl doesn't really let you develop yourself as a unique player. You can get better, but it's all the same ****.