SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[Gaxel]

Hey, guys. I was reviewing the Ridley appearance on the Smash Direct.

Here's the video at the Ridley moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=438

I have two theories to this, I'll go with the more likely one first. I'll call the first one the 'Ridley is not playable' theory and the second one 'Ridley is playable' theory.

This is the more likely one, the not playable theory:

1.) Sakurai is still developing Ridley which is why he has not been shown yet, proof of this is well... the game is still being developed.

2.) Ridley might use a new design for a TBA Metroid game so, Sakurai doesn't want us to see him just yet until Metroid is revealed at E3 with his new design. "But that's Other M Ridley's tail!" well, who's to say that Team Ninja didn't update his model for a sequel? (I hope to god that this isn't the case)

3.) Ridley might have more significance in this game outside of a boss and stage hazard. He might be an event on Smash Run, a lot of other things can be included with him as well.

4.) So much Metroid representation through Smash Run and Assist Trophies, Sakurai might be trying to make it up for us for him not being playable.

Now, this is the playable theory:

1.) Pikachu was picked up by Ridley. That is very poor game design (imo) if the boss just disables you for some time like that. Fighting games don't have bosses that just disable you like that, it's like a aerial grab Ridley used (that might be his fighting gimmick, what is compared to Mac's OHKO or Rosalina's puppeteering).

2.) Sakurai cut off the sound at this segment. Aren't bosses supposed to make sounds like intimidating screeches in Ridley's case to scare the player? Playable characters usually don't say anything unless taunting or attacking (This was shown in the video).

3.) Too much hype for a boss.

4.) Why is the AI so casual? If Ridley was a boss, why would he be hovering ever so slowly to Pikachu? This argument can be counteracted with Ridley's boss design not being done yet.

I'm so 50/50 with this situation that I don't know what to do with myself.

 

[Duster72]

I like that, besides 2 or 3 very vocal people, most of us are cool with the (possible) inclusion of Marshall.

I like that everyone is universally accepting the "chorus men" refers to Marshal every since I brought it up!

It sure makes sense though. He's the mascot of RHF, and he has such a simple design that he can easily incorporate a lot of different RH minigames in his moveset. Which I can imagine would be a bit harder if it was, say, Karate Joe or the Rhythm Wrestler.

 

[Spazzy_D]

@NickerBocker it doesn't mean those are all the characters, there is still room for a Mewtwo or a K. Rool.

Also, just want to point out, the Rhythm series isn't a small nothing franchise. It's a multi-million seller in Japan, we're just all thinking about it from a Western point of view.

 

[Bauske]

1.) Pikachu was picked up by Ridley. That is very poor game design (imo) if the boss just disables you for some time like that. Fighting games don't have bosses that just disable you like that, it's like a aerial grab Ridley used (that might be his fighting gimmick, what is compared to Mac's OHKO or Rosalina's puppeteering).

My argument against this is that Smash isn't a typical fighting game. Stuff enters the arena and disables or knocks around the players quite a bit. It wouldn't surprise me at all for a boss like Ridley to swoop down, grab a character, and hold them helpless, giving other players the chance to beat up on him. It would make a fun dynamic rather than just "avoid taking damage from the boss." Instead of just worrying about getting your percentage wracked up from boss attacks, now you'd have to worry about being disabled and taking damage from other players as well. It gives a whole different panic level to avoiding a boss encounter.

I like that everyone is universally accepting the "chorus men" refers to Marshal every since I brought it up!

It sure makes sense though. He's the mascot of RHF, and he has such a simple design that he can easily incorporate a lot of different RH minigames in his moveset. Which I can imagine would be a bit harder if it was, say, Karate Joe or the Rhythm Wrestler.

Technically, Marshal was in the original Rhythm Tengoku as well, just in a much more simplified form. They sort of refined him for Rhythm Heaven (Glee Club) and Rhythm Heaven Fever, even using him in the same stage he initially came from. You can see the original stage below. (One of my favorites in the whole game. So catchy!)

 

[Gaxel]

My argument against this is that Smash isn't a typical fighting game. Stuff enters the arena and disables or knocks around the players quite a bit. It wouldn't surprise me at all for a boss like Ridley to swoop down, grab a character, and hold them helpless, giving other players the chance to beat up on him. It would make a fun dynamic rather than just "avoid taking damage from the boss." Instead of just worrying about getting your percentage wracked up from boss attacks, now you'd have to worry about being disabled and taking damage from other players as well. It gives a whole different panic level to avoiding a boss encounter.

But dude, he was picked up and just dropped. No damage looked like was dealt to Pikachu.

It looked like what happens when a PC grabs another PC and doesn't do anything for a duration in where the grabbed PC just pulls itself out of the grapple.

 

[Duster72]

One thing about the leak that meakes me nervous (and im sure others would agree) is the lack of Mewtwo, K Rool and Ridley. All villains from some of Nintendos biggest series. It would be a shame to not see them in. (The closest thing to a villain Pokemon will ever get.)

The one hope I have is that those characters are simply not mentioned but are still included, similar to how Rosalina showed up regardless of the leak.

I'm sure everything "revealed" by this leaker isn't everything there is. As for the villain trio… I can't see all of them being in, but at least one out of three could make it, I bet. I don't know which one though. Ridley's chances are significantly lowered, in my eyes. Mewtwo's chances feel cut short by Greninja, though I may be thinking the wrong way about that. K. Rool never seemed that likely to me. I feel like his chances were blown wayyyy out of proportion by Smash fans' eyes, but I may be wrong on that, too. Especially because of the Kremlings in Smash Run.

 

[Bauske]

But dude, he was picked up and just dropped. No damage looked like was dealt to Pikachu.

It looked like what happens when a PC grabs another PC and doesn't do anything for a duration in where the grabbed PC just pulls itself out of the grapple.

Well yeah, but that video was just a demonstration. There weren't really any other fighters shown either. Or health meters for that matter. It's hard to say exactly what happened to Pikachu from just a shadow.

I'm not saying he's deconfirmed, but I will say his movements felt very robotic and programmed, and picking up another character in the air totally seems like something a boss character or stage hazard would do and not a playable character.

 

[TheTuninator]

Its equally possible his leaker friend knew what the Direct had in it and left THAT newcomer vague since Sal would see it soon enough, but still techinically informed him of that newcomer.

Sal's leaker has proven himself to be not very in the know about Nintendo's exact release timing, so I doubt his vagueness can be explained this way.

 

[BKupa666]

I like that, besides 2 or 3 very vocal people, most of us are cool with the inclusion of any character, ever, regardless of quality or merit.

Fixed for truth.

I'm having great difficulty seeing how Mewtwo could just not be in this game, despite Sakurai claiming to be "thinking about it" in front of a crowd at E3.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

I like that, besides 2 or 3 very vocal people, most of us are cool with the (possible) inclusion of Marshall.

Everyone is cool with it because their dreams of having Ridley have been crushed and they get Palutena. Everyone else wants K.Rool.

 

[TheTuninator]

Fixed for truth.

I'm having great difficulty seeing how Mewtwo could just not be in this game, despite Sakurai claiming to be "thinking about it" in front of a crowd at E3.

I won't be at all surprised if he doesn't return. Sakurai already deemed Mewtwo a non-essential character in Brawl. No reason that he can't get the axe twice.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Technically, Marshal was in the original Rhythm Tengoku as well, just in a much more simplified form. They sort of refined him for Rhythm Heaven (Glee Club) and Rhythm Heaven Fever, even using him in the same stage he initially came from. You can see the original stage below. (One of my favorites in the whole game. So catchy!)

This song needs to be in the game.

 

[Louie G.]

I won't be at all surprised if he doesn't return. Sakurai already deemed Mewtwo a non-essential character in Brawl. No reason that he can't get the axe twice.

As if Sakurai didn't try to get Mewtwo in before time ran out.
Mewtwo was 90% complete, after all.

 

[Johnny Wellens]

The Rhythm inclusion is in line with Sakurai including characters that people either aren't familiar with or wouldn't expect. He's a troll like that.

 

[TheTuninator]

As if Sakurai didn't try to get Mewtwo in before time ran out.
Mewtwo was 90% complete, after all.

It's the other 10% that matters.

 

[BKupa666]

I won't be at all surprised if he doesn't return. Sakurai already deemed Mewtwo a non-essential character in Brawl. No reason that he can't get the axe twice.

Yeah, in Brawl, where he was one of the least popular veterans and wasn't relevant to Gen. 4. But now, he's the single most requested character, he's incredibly prominent in Gen. 6, and he's been at least planned for the two games he wasn't in. That's not the sort of character I see realistically being excluded. Ridley or K. Rool? Yeah, Sakurai could f**k that up big time for sure. Mewtwo? Not really, the backlash now would be as bad, if not worse, than when he was cut outright last time.

 

[Eight Melodies]

earthbound has 2 reps.......why cant f zero? that's my response. plus he is a semi clone and we all know how much toon link changed.
nothing wrong with me.

F-Zero has no character that is developed or significant at all except Captain Falcon and maybe Samurai Goroh. Earthbound though has a different cast with each game and they are all pretty developed characters. Granted I would still like a second F-Zero rep just because GX is my favorite racing game.

 

[Louie G.]

It's the other 10% that matters.

How is that the case?
Sakurai ran out of time and was not able to add Mewtwo.
He had 6 OTHER POKEMON CHARACTERS and Mewtwo may have been overkill, which may be why he ultimately pulled the plug.
However, PT looks to be cut, leaving two open slots if Pokémon gets 6 reps. Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, plain and simple.

 

[TheTuninator]

Yeah, in Brawl, where he was one of the least popular veterans and wasn't relevant to Gen. 4. But now, he's the single most requested character, he's incredibly prominent in Gen. 6, and he's been at least planned for the two games he wasn't in. That's not the sort of character I see realistically being excluded. Ridley or K. Rool? Yeah, Sakurai could f**k that up big time for sure. Mewtwo? Not really, the backlash now would be as bad, if not worse, than when he was cut outright last time.

I don't consider anybody who already got cut once a shoo-in for Smash. "Being planned" means nothing. When push came to shove, Mewtwo was deemed a non-priority.

If the amount of requests meant anything, Ridley would have been playable since Brawl.

How is that the case?
Sakurai ran out of time and was not able to add Mewtwo.
He had 6 OTHER POKEMON CHARACTERS and Mewtwo may have been overkill, which may be why he ultimately pulled the plug.
However, PT looks to be cut, leaving two open slots if Pokémon gets 6 reps. Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, plain and simple.

It's the case because what "X character was almost complete!" really says is "X character didn't make the cut."

 

[Duster72]

I like that, besides 2 or 3 very vocal people, most of us are cool with the inclusion of any character, ever, regardless of quality or merit.

EXCUSE ME? Are you trying to tell me Mr. Shoutystubs is a less-than-quality character choice? Out of my sight.

I'm having great difficulty seeing how Mewtwo could just not be in this game, despite Sakurai claiming to be "thinking about it" in front of a crowd at E3.

Seriously though, I'd like to agree with you, but I don't know… the thought of Lucario, Greninja, and Mewtwo all being upright humanoid Pokémon just weirds me out a little. It's not impossible, and I'd certainly like Mewtwo to make a comeback, but it feels strange.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, in Brawl, where he was one of the least popular veterans and wasn't relevant to Gen. 4. But now, he's the single most requested character, he's incredibly prominent in Gen. 6, and he's been at least planned for the two games he wasn't in. That's not the sort of character I see realistically being excluded. Ridley or K. Rool? Yeah, Sakurai could f**k that up big time for sure. Mewtwo? Not really, the backlash now would be as bad, if not worse, than when he was cut outright last time.

So then what's your stance on the slot debate, because we're still missing Jigglypuff as well, and she has the whole Fairy-typing thing as well now.

 

[TheTuninator]

There's also absolutely no reason to assume that Pokemon must have 6 reps.

 

[Louie G.]

It's the case because what "X character was almost complete!" really says is "X character didn't make the cut."

Did you hear what I said?
Pokémon had six characters in Brawl.
Pokémon can have six characters now.
Pikachu, Lucario, Charizard, Greninja, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo.
So yeah, Mewtwo is still incredibly likely.

There's also absolutely no reason to assume that Pokemon must have 6 reps.

Does it need it? Maybe not.
But that's what it had in Brawl.

 

[TheTuninator]

Did you hear what I said?
Pokémon had six characters in Brawl.
Pokémon can have six characters now.
Pikachu, Lucario, Charizard, Greninja, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo.
So yeah, Mewtwo is still incredibly likely.

Pokemon can also have a sixth character who isn't Mewtwo, exactly like Brawl.

 

[Louie G.]

Pokemon can also have a sixth character who isn't Mewtwo, exactly like Brawl.

And who would that be?
Seriously, why would Sakurai skip out on the most relevant, important, and popular character not yet added in Smash Bros 4?
I like a surprise now and then but I don't think I could ever forgive Sakurai if Mewtwo doesn't make the cut.

 

[Duster72]

There's also absolutely no reason to assume that Pokemon must have 6 reps.

I agree. And yet, there's absolutely no reason to believe it's not possible either. On my current "veterans returning" roster list, I feel some stress over "Jigglypuff vs. Mewtwo", but it's very possible that they could both be in. We just don't know.

 

[TheTuninator]

And who would that be?

A third-tier grass starter? Another popular pokemon? A pick out of left field? It could be anybody. Popularity didn't save Mewtwo in Brawl.

Seriously, why would Sakurai skip out on the most relevant, important, and popular character not yet added in Smash Bros 4?
I like a surprise now and then but I don't think I could ever forgive Sakurai if Mewtwo doesn't make the cut.

Once again, if popularity and importance were all that dictated inclusion, Ridley would be playable.

Convincing yourself that Mewtwo is guaranteed is only setting yourself up for disappointment. No character is guaranteed.

 

[Louie G.]

Popularity didn't save Mewtwo in Brawl.

Pretty sure that @ BKupa666 said that Mewtwo wasn't popular during Brawl. He sure is now.

A third-tier grass starter? Another popular pokemon? A pick out of left field?

I feel that Greninja fits the role of a "surprise" Pokémon. Anyone else would be overkill, as nobody even compares to Mewtwo's importance.

Once again, if popularity and importance were all that dictated inclusion, Ridley would be playable.

True, but Ridley isn't going to be replaced by some left-field character. It's Ridley or bust, and it looks like bust.
Mewtwo on the other hand has competition, but it is very lacking, as none of them are as important or popular as Mewtwo.
Do you understand what I mean? Ridley and Mewtwo are almost incomparable, they are in very different situations. For Ridley it was a matter of if Metroid is getting another character. For Pokémon it's who is going to take up the other slot(s).
Mewtwo's in a better position than Ridley, since he has been a playable character in the past. The main question about Ridley was if he would work, and we all know that Mewtwo would work.

 

[Gaxel]

I thought Mewtwo was practically deconfirmed with the "Only legendary pokemon appear from Master balls".

Implying that that's the ONLY way to get a legendary meaning Mewtwo isn't playable.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Fixed for truth.

I'm having great difficulty seeing how Mewtwo could just not be in this game, despite Sakurai claiming to be "thinking about it" in front of a crowd at E3.

Says the dude that's all in on a character that hasn't appeared in a non-spinoff game in 14 years. It's not like rhythm based games haven't become a big part of Nintendo's library in Japan over the last 10 years and deserve representation or anything.

 

[Chimera]

Says the dude that's all in on a character that hasn't appeared in a non-spinoff game in 14 years. It's not like rhythm based games haven't become a big part of Nintendo's library in Japan over the last 10 years and deserve representation or anything.

THANK YOU.

 

[TheTuninator]

Pretty sure that @ BKupa666 said that Mewtwo wasn't popular during Brawl. He sure is now.

Mewtwo was a veteran who wasn't Dr. Mario or Pichu, which by default makes him very popular. Look at how popular Roy still is, and he isn't even that widely liked from his actual game.

I feel that Greninja fits the role of a "surprise" Pokémon. Anyone else would be overkill, as nobody even compares to Mewtwo's importance.

I don't follow Pokemon, but Greninja is apparently very popular with actual Pokemon fans right now, so he's not really a surprise.

True, but Ridley isn't going to be replaced by some left-field character. It's Ridley or bust, and it looks like bust.
Mewtwo on the other hand has competition, but it is very lacking, as none of them are as important or popular as Mewtwo.
Do you understand what I mean? Ridley and Mewtwo are almost incomparable, they are in very different situations. For Ridley it was a matter of if Metroid is getting another character. For Pokémon it's who is going to take up the other slot(s).
Mewtwo's in a better position than Ridley, since he has been a playable character in the past. The main question about Ridley was if he would work, and we all know that Mewtwo would work.

Pokemon could very well drop to 5 characters. There's no reason to assume that Sakurai will hold the series at 6 reps, especially since Mario and Zelda will likely hold at 5 and 4 respectively. Remember, Mario went down in total representation from Melee to Brawl.

 

[EcoNative]

Hey, finally decided to stop being a lurker and join the forums in the midst of this hype! In regards to Mewtwo and the number of slots..if the forbidden seven are true then that means Sakurai originally panned to have 8 pokémon characters (9 if you count Plusle & Minun as two separate characters). So I think it is likely he'll make space for Mewtwo since we only know 4 characters as of now.

Edit: Forgot to mention this too. Since work had already been completed on Mewtwo before the release of Brawl that would give the development team a head start on his character as well. We don't know how far along Mewtwo got into production, but if that "leaked" image from Subspace Emissary of him is real, then he must of been really close to being viable.

 

[ScottyWK]

I thought Mewtwo was practically deconfirmed with the "Only legendary pokemon appear from Master balls".

Implying that that's the ONLY way to get a legendary meaning Mewtwo isn't playable.

I think you need a grammar lesson.

"Only legendary pokemon appear from master balls" means that no ordinary Pokemon will come from them. It'll strictly be legendary.

"Legendary pokemon will appear only from masterballs" implies that there are no legendary Pokemon elsewhere.

 

[swordbreaker]

Yeah, in Brawl, where he was one of the least popular veterans and wasn't relevant to Gen. 4. But now, he's the single most requested character, he's incredibly prominent in Gen. 6, and he's been at least planned for the two games he wasn't in. That's not the sort of character I see realistically being excluded. Ridley or K. Rool? Yeah, Sakurai could f**k that up big time for sure. Mewtwo? Not really, the backlash now would be as bad, if not worse, than when he was cut outright last time.

I don't know man, that heavy Pokemon trailer was enough to do Pokemon justice tenfold. I think if Mewtwo was returning he would have a trailer, and he would have been in that one. Jigglypuff won't be getting one obviously but I seriously doubt they will waste another one (trailer) on a Pokemon when we have a trailer with 2 of them.

 

[BKupa666]

So then what's your stance on the slot debate, because we're still missing Jigglypuff as well, and she has the whole Fairy-typing thing as well now.

I think the slot debate is beyond stupid. We already had six playable Pokemon in Brawl, and while it's possible we go down to five this time, it certainly won't be because of forum users getting heebie-jeebies by Pokemon having a single slot more than Mario. Also, I think that, if push comes to shove, Mewtwo will be prioritized over Jigglypuff. We'll see.

EXCUSE ME? Are you trying to tell me Mr. Shoutystubs is a less-than-quality character choice? Out of my sight.

Seriously though, I'd like to agree with you, but I don't know… the thought of Lucario, Greninja, and Mewtwo all being upright humanoid Pokémon just weirds me out a little. It's not impossible, and I'd certainly like Mewtwo to make a comeback, but it feels strange.

I don't know how the Chorus Men will end up playing, I'm just sharing my observation of how the Smash community approaches characters. If anyone dares speak out against a newcomer, dislikes or complains about it, they're treated as if they just kicked a dog. Having not-positive opinions about characters is taboo in many places, and I haven't the foggiest why.

I think that, so long as the Pokemon are sufficiently different, there won't be hesitation to adding the lot.

I don't consider anybody who already got cut once a shoo-in for Smash. "Being planned" means nothing. When push came to shove, Mewtwo was deemed a non-priority.

If the amount of requests meant anything, Ridley would have been playable since Brawl.

It's the case because what "X character was almost complete!" really says is "X character didn't make the cut."

Mewtwo was the closest thing to a shoo-in before Tuesday, although he may not be one anymore. Yes, Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl, but you're overlooking the context of why he wasn't to get to the bottom line of 'he wasn't there.' The context is entirely different now, six years later. Also, I suppose Wario, Diddy, Dedede, Pit, Sonic, Olimar, Wolf, etc. were added into Brawl just on a whim? What you're saying about Ridley only really applies to this game, where he's far and away one of the two most obvious frontrunners.

I don't know man, that heavy Pokemon trailer was enough to do Pokemon justice tenfold. I think if Mewtwo was returning he would have a trailer, and he would have been in that one. Jigglypuff won't be getting one obviously but I seriously doubt they will waste another one (trailer) on a Pokemon when we have a trailer with 2 of them.

For all we know, he'll just get a Sonic-like gameplay only trailer, or be added onto the end of a general Smash trailer, like Snake was with Brawl. Again, we'll see.

 

[MrPanic]

Since someone pointed out that my neutral roster still had some bias going on I re-did it. I believe it now is fully based on the rumours in this thread. Please take a look.

This roster is based on 3 points, I will explain why I added the non confirmed characters:

- The Sal leak
That's why I added Pac-Man, Mii, Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, Marshal.

- Direct trophies theory
That's why I added a FE rep (Chrom), KI rep (Palutena), Metroid rep (Ridley), Zelda rep (Ghirasim). Chrom overlaps with the Sal leak so that's an easy choice. Palutena because of the Palutena leak. Ridley because of the direct's vagueness about him. Ghirasim for no good reason other than Fi being a Skyward trophy, could very well be a different Zelda rep.

- Direct oddities speculation.
Mewtwo, with the addition of the masterball I found it very odd he didn't appear as one of the legendaries. The most likely reason being him being playable. With the directs preference to mega-evolutions and two seemingly cut pkmn it seems to make space for two new ones, with only Greninja confirmed so far all the clues seem to be pointed towards Mewtwo.

I kept the rest of the unconfirmed veterans in because of the intention Sakurai expressed of keeping as many veterans in as possible. I think we don't have any believable leak atm that can justify cuts.


I could add more characters based on more speculation from the direct footage, but this roster is supposed to portrait the most likely leaks and rumours. If I missed something important in this thread please let me know.

 

[TheTuninator]

The direct trophies "theory" sounds like full-blown conspiracy theorist paranoia to me, to be honest. Each trophy shown was from a series that had a recent game, yet the character was still minor enough to require that you actually played the game to recognize them.

Showcasing recent games just makes sense.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I don't know how the Chorus Men will end up playing, I'm just sharing my observation of how the Smash community approaches characters. If anyone dares speak out against a newcomer, dislikes or complains about it, they're treated as if they just kicked a dog.

Playable Mii would like to have a word with you.

 

[BKupa666]

Says the dude that's all in on a character that hasn't appeared in a non-spinoff game in 14 years. It's not like rhythm based games haven't become a big part of Nintendo's library in Japan over the last 10 years and deserve representation or anything.

No need for the ad hominem zinger. Again, I'm not specifically ripping on the Chorus Men, I'm voicing an observation about the community's approach to characters. No one can negatively comment about any character without being shunned as 'entitled' or 'whiny,' despite the roster being one of the most important parts of the game, and despite every other aspect of the game getting nitpicked liberally.

The Mii isn't a newcomer yet. When it gets revealed, you can bet there's going to be a whole lot of "Oooh, the Mii is so cool, I didn't even expect that! It's totally growing on me and is a good choice!" It's cyclical, and it's pervasive.