SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[praline]

Didn't the Sal rumour say not that Greninja was playable but that just a X/Y pokemon was in? That makes it sound less legit. It's like instead of saying Chrom they put a Fire Emblem Awakening character.

 

[Shel]

Wait, Timmy and Tommy (and Nook) are all in Villager's Final Smash. But... you see Timmy/Tommy in the background of the AC stage. D:

Alfono!

What's more weird is that Tom nook and his nephews (?) actually look just as good as a playable character. The model is extremely detailed. Perhaps an alt skin?

 

[KingBroly]

I still think Lucina's going to be in the game, but as an alternate costume to Marth.

I'm not sure what to make of this leak. Chorus Man doesn't REALLY make sense. Not only is there a lack of history behind the character, as well as an importance to Nintendo's game library, but there's no indication from anywhere in-game to hint that Rhythm Heaven representation is in the game at all.

 

[TheTuninator]

Some people here automatically dismiss all leaks, and rage hard to disprove or discredit leaks that aren't easily debunked (and write them off once they can't be debunked, like the current Sal rumor). It's not a terrible stance to take, as 99% (and perhaps 100% of what we've seen) of leaks are fake, but looking back at what happened during Brawl.... some of you are going to be eating some crow eventually.

Probably.

Until then, I'll play devil's advocate, because it's enjoyable and somebody needs to do it.

Didn't the Sal rumour say not that Greninja was playable but that just a X/Y pokemon was in? That makes it sound less legit. It's like instead of saying Chrom they put a Fire Emblem Awakening character.

Yeah, exactly.

The Sal new comer roster isn't THAT bad, it's just missing a few key characters. Honestly, these are the newcomers according to the leak:

· Little Mac
· Villager
· MegaMan
· Shulk
· Palutena
· Chrom
· Rosalina
· Wii Fit Trainer
· Pac-Man
· Mii
· Chorus Men
· Greninja

I've highlighted the ones I actually wanted before the game was announced. Six out of twelve, not all that bad.

If the newcomers ended up being:
· Little Mac
· Villager
· MegaMan
· Shulk
· Palutena
· Chrom
· Rosalina
· Wii Fit Trainer
· Pac-Man
· Mii
· Chorus Men
· Greninja

and then

· King K. Rool
· Takamaru

Would people still have a problem with the leaked newcomers then?

I have no issue with the Sal roster as presented aside from Mii (assuming Pac is retro), but Mii's probably inevitable.

Sal's leak isn't really "missing" anything. Some characters were always going to be left out, and we've really elevated the expectation of Takamaru as the retro rep above what's probably realistic.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Didn't the Sal rumour say not that Greninja was playable but that just a X/Y pokemon was in? That makes it sound less legit. It's like instead of saying Chrom they put a Fire Emblem Awakening character.

I say it's a neutral point. You can't say he correctly predicted Greninja, because he just said X/Y Pokémon, but you can't count it against him either as he covered the option (and a lot of people already thought Mewtwo was a shoe-in and there wouldn't be an X/Y Pokémon.) I don't use it as a point for or against the leak, really.

 

[TheTuninator]

I say it's a neutral point. You can't say he correctly predicted Greninja, because he just said X/Y Pokémon, but you can't count it against him either as he covered the option (and a lot of people already thought Mewtwo was a shoe-in and there wouldn't be an X/Y Pokémon.) I don't use it as a point for or against the leak, really.

Eh, it just makes me suspicious because his information is so pinpoint accurate everywhere else.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

The Sal new comer roster isn't THAT bad, it's just missing a few key characters. Honestly, these are the newcomers according to the leak:

· Little Mac
· Villager
· MegaMan
· Shulk
· Palutena
· Chrom
· Rosalina
· Wii Fit Trainer
· Pac-Man
· Mii
· Chorus Men
· Greninja

I've highlighted the ones I actually wanted before the game was announced. Six out of twelve, not all that bad.

If the newcomers ended up being:
· Little Mac
· Villager
· MegaMan
· Shulk
· Palutena
· Chrom
· Rosalina
· Wii Fit Trainer
· Pac-Man
· Mii
· Chorus Men
· Greninja

and then

· King K. Rool
· Takamaru

Would people still have a problem with the leaked newcomers then?

I actually have no problem with the leaked roster except from Mii (of course).
I don't even know who the hell Chorus Men is. If he is actually a retro I don't know why he would chose him over Takamaru or Lip.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Eh, it just makes me suspicious because his information is so pinpoint accurate everywhere else.

It's really all about his source. If he does have a legitimate source, we don't know how much the source has been leaking to him (or if he is even taking questions) and what role in development that source may have. He may be limited in his knowledge or just enjoy being coy. Honestly though, it does seem weird that he would leak "generic 6th gen Pokémon" but be so specific about the Rhythm franchise rep.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I actually have no problem with the leaked roster except from Mii (of course).
I don't even know who the hell Chorus Men is. If he is actually a retro I don't know why he would chose him over Takamaru or Lip.

The Chorus Men aren't retro. They're from the game Rhythm Heaven.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Ridley's shadow is off-screen when we would see a turning animation, so we don't know if he'd turn on a dime like fighters do or if he has a more complicated animation like a boss would. We can't tell either way.

What we can tell, however, is that the caption quite explicitly refers to the Ridley clone as a stage boss.

Even still, if he was a stage hazard, based on the fact that it's Ridley, he wouldn't just slowly fly to the left at a little less than Pikachu's walking speed.

 

[jwj442]

Sal's leak isn't really "missing" anything. Some characters were always going to be left out, and we've really elevated the expectation of Takamaru as the retro rep above what's probably realistic.

Yeah, I've always been puzzled that people treat Takamaru as inevitabe. He's from an old and obscure one-shot game that isn't that important to Nintendo's history. Yes, the Ice Climbers are too, but they're really the only Smash character that fits that description (Pit had two games and years of requests for a sequel), and at least their game got a western release. I know Takamaru has had appearances in Nintendoland and stuff, but I'm not sure if that really makes that much of a difference.

I do think he has a chance because Sakurai does all sorts of things, but not an obvious shoo-in by any means.

 

[lilt]

I did not play Xenoblade, so I don't know. Is this already clarified as fake?

Spoiler

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

The Chorus Men aren't retro. They're from the game Rhythm Heaven.

Ah, thanks for the info.
I never really got into that game.
I am still unsure about him though.
Seems like an odd choice.

 

[swordbreaker]

Probably.

Until then, I'll play devil's advocate, because it's enjoyable and somebody needs to do it.



Yeah, exactly.



I have no issue with the Sal roster as presented aside from Mii (assuming Pac is retro), but Mii's probably inevitable.

Sal's leak isn't really "missing" anything. Some characters were always going to be left out, and we've really elevated the expectation of Takamaru as the retro rep above what's probably realistic.

Well we were supposedly guaranteed another revival. It looks like Lip is out, everyone else in Captain Rainbow (Devil, Little Mac, Advance Wars) was already represented in some way. Doesn't seem like Sakurai gives a damn about Game Boy games, he's been appearing in some form the most lately, he's really the only option to me.

 

[TheTuninator]

It's really all about his source. If he does have a legitimate source, we don't know how much the source has been leaking to him (or if he is even taking questions) and what role in development that source may have. He may be limited in his knowledge or just enjoy being coy. Honestly though, it does seem weird that he would leak "generic 6th gen Pokémon" but be so specific about the Rhythm franchise rep.

The leaker/his source has been wrong before, so it wouldn't be totally unheard of if some of the information he received for this second cycle was also incorrect.

I'd really love to know whether Sal's leaker is somebody directly affiliated with the dev team or not, because that association really determines how credible the rest of the leak is based on the WFT leak.

Well we were supposedly guaranteed another revival. It looks like Lip is out, everyone else in Captain Rainbow (Devil, Little Mac, Advance Wars) was already represented in some way. Doesn't seem like Sakurai gives a damn about Game Boy games, he's been appearing in some form the most lately, he's really the only option to me.

Wars isn't really retro enough to fall under that comment. The series has only been dormant for five years; even Metroid has gone longer without a game, I believe.

 

[Staarih]

I actually find the "X/Y character" thing from the leak very interesting, as very few people actually predicted a X/Y Pokémon and yet we did get one. Maybe the leaker just didn't know Greninja's name specifically, but knew it was a new gen Pokémon? Or something.

 

[DraginHikari]

I did not play Xenoblade, so I don't know. Is this already clarified as fake?

It was determined as a copy paste job from the Wii Model awhile ago.

 

[TheTuninator]

I actually find the "X/Y character" thing from the leak very interesting, as very few people actually predicted a X/Y Pokémon and yet we did get one. Maybe the leaker just didn't know Greninja's name specifically, but knew it was a new gen Pokémon? Or something.

Potentially, but not knowing the exact newcomer is very out of character for this leaker. The man accurately predicted Wii Fit Trainer and made specific predictions for 10-11 other reps. Why does his info suddenly fall apart with Pokemon?

 

[praline]

I did not play Xenoblade, so I don't know. Is this already clarified as fake?

Spoiler

Yeah it's fake.

 

[swordbreaker]

The leaker/his source has been wrong before, so it wouldn't be totally unheard of if some of the information he received for this second cycle was also incorrect.

I'd really love to know whether Sal's leaker is somebody directly affiliated with the dev team or not, because that association really determines how credible the rest of the leak is based on the WFT leak.



Wars isn't really retro enough to fall under that comment. The series has only been dormant for five years; even Metroid has gone longer without a game, I believe.

No, the last AW game was in 2008 I think? Last Metroid game was 2009- 2010?

 

[Banjodorf]

Potentially, but not knowing the exact newcomer is very out of character for this leaker. The man accurately predicted Wii Fit Trainer and made specific predictions for 10-11 other reps. Why does his info suddenly fall apart with Pokemon?

Look, I don't think it's as out of character as seems to be continually brought up.

For instance, the characters that seem to be given by their actual name are the popular choices. (i.e. the leaker has to deal with speculation, knows alot about characters like Shulk and Palutena.)

However, since he's probably looking at Japanese characters for names, seeing Greninja, Villager, and the Chorus guy, which were not popularly requested, or in Villager's case, did not have a defined name, would make him just guess names for them, or go "that's probably a Pokemon from X&Y."

Wii Fit Trainer is easier, because what else would you call that?

 

[TheTuninator]

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but leakers almost always give very specific information, right? It just feels off for someone with supposed inside access to be so vague. Weren't all of the legitimate Brawl leaks very specific?

No, the last AW game was in 2008 I think? Last Metroid game was 2009- 2010?

Metroid had no games from 1995-2002.

Look, I don't think it's as out of character as seems to be continually brought up.

For instance, the characters that seem to be given by their actual name are the popular choices. (i.e. the leaker has to deal with speculation, knows alot about characters like Shulk and Palutena.)

However, since he's probably looking at Japanese characters for names, seeing Greninja, Villager, and the Chorus guy, which were not popularly requested, or in Villager's case, did not have a defined name, would make him just guess names for them, or go "that's probably a Pokemon from X&Y."

Wii Fit Trainer is easier, because what else would you call that?

Even if he's looking at Japanese (which he has to be able to read to an extent, else how would he know what series they're from?) a quick Google search of the Japanese characters brings up the rep.

 

[swordbreaker]

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but leakers almost always give very specific information, right? It just feels off for someone with supposed inside access to be so vague. Weren't all of the legitimate Brawl leaks very specific?



Metroid had no games from 1995-2002.

That's a weird way to determine if a franchise is retro.

Also that's true, back for melee they were able to list Roy by name and not "another new Fire Emblem character", even though noone knew what game he was from. Sine there is a summer release for the 3DS version there is no reason for confusion at this point. For all we know he could be profiting off his accuracy. He was able to describe the person from Rhythm Heaven but not the Pokemon - He could have said the frog starter or something.

 

[Banjodorf]

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but leakers almost always give very specific information, right? It just feels off for someone with supposed inside access to be so vague. Weren't all of the legitimate Brawl leaks very specific?



Metroid had no games from 1995-2002.

No, actually. The one that leaked the final roster just had character names. And "Lucario replaces Mewtwo." which is partially what started that myth.

I think Portrait of Ruin's Dragoon leak (That was her, or am I switching her with ChaosZero again?) had details, but that was once.

It's really not out of character. Giving too much information is usually a BAD sign for leaks, at any rate.

Besides, if I was in the leaker's position, and probably didn't know more than the characters themselves, (and probably not all of them at that) why does it matter to leak anything else?

 

[TheTuninator]

That's a weird way to determine if a franchise is retro.

I thought it was pretty commonly understood that "retro" franchises are ones that have not had any games in a very, very long time.

I was pointing out that Wars doesn't really qualify as retro or in need of a "revival" since the last Wars game was a mere 5 years ago.

No, actually. The one that leaked the final roster just had character names. And "Lucario replaces Mewtwo." which is partially what started that myth.

Specific character names rather than "Character from X" is exactly what I'm asking about. The legit leakers have typically given specific names, right?

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

Isn't the point of a leak is to spew out as much information as you can to the public?
Legit leaks I'm talking about.

 

[Banjodorf]

I thought it was pretty commonly understood that "retro" franchises are ones that have not had any games in a very, very long time.

I was pointing out that Wars doesn't really qualify as retro or in need of a "revival" since the last Wars game was a mere 5 years ago.



Specific character names rather than "Character from X" is exactly what I'm asking about. The legit leakers have typically given specific names, right?

Yeah, but this was the final roster, and if I recall, one of the names was slightly off in the original final roster leak. (He called him Wind Waker Link or something.)

I pretty much gave a realistic scenario for why he didn't know who Greninja (or Gekkouga) was. If he's (likely) looking at the Japanese version, why would he know who what to call it? It's easy enough just to say "A Pokemon from X&Y" especially if he knew it'd be revealed later that day anyway.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The leaker/his source has been wrong before, so it wouldn't be totally unheard of if some of the information he received for this second cycle was also incorrect.
.

To be fair, do we know if the leaker was wrong (I assume you mean on the E3 reveals), or did Sal just interpret it wrong? Could have gone either way, although I haven't seen the original leak in a while.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Isn't the point of a leak is to spew out as much information as you can to the public?
Legit leaks I'm talking about.

Some times. Some times leakers like to leak slowly to keep people around.

Edit: Ah, sorry about the double post. replied to quickly it seems.

 

[TheTuninator]

Yeah, but this was the final roster, and if I recall, one of the names was slightly off in the original final roster leak. (He called him Wind Waker Link or something.)

I pretty much gave a realistic scenario for why he didn't know who Greninja (or Gekkouga) was. If he's (likely) looking at the Japanese version, why would he know who what to call it? It's easy enough just to say "A Pokemon from X&Y" especially if he knew it'd be revealed later that day anyway.

If he's looking at the Japanese version it'd take all of 5 seconds to pull up a wiki and identify the character, which he apparently had no problem doing for literally everyone else he predicted.

It just doesn't add up. The only real explanation, assuming the legitimacy of the leaker, is that this leaker either decidedly to be deliberately vague for some unknowable reason or the leaker himself has a source who decided to be vague when speaking with the leaker.

To be fair, do we know if the leaker was wrong (I assume you mean on the E3 reveals), or did Sal just interpret it wrong? Could have gone either way, although I haven't seen the original leak in a while.

The leaker was wrong about the planned reveal schedule for Mac and, if they're in, Pac and Mii.

This doesn't mean that he was wrong about Pac and Mii being in the game, just that the leaker does not have 100% accurate information.

 

[polonight]

I think that sal's leaker designed the box art, out of the characters announced the 6 he has mentioned would be the ones most likely to appear on the box art. I'm not to sure on the second leak he has given though we have no proof that it is the same source apart from his word. It would explain why he hasn't listed all the returning characters.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Did anyone else realize that the NotSakurai leak contradicted its self? He claimed Shulk was the newest character, but said Robin was also playable..... Shulk came before Robin. Plus Greninja is newer too so that leak is dead! I think everyone is dead on OP except Palutena.

 

[TheMarioaddict]

Methinks the NotSakurai Leak is fake.

"No Melee stages return"

(Cue Nintendo Direct, with footage of Jungle Japes)

 

[TheTuninator]

Did anyone else realize that the NotSakurai leak contradicted its self? He claimed Shulk was the newest character, but said Robin was also playable..... Shulk came before Robin. Plus Greninja is newer too so that leak is dead! I think everyone is dead on OP except Palutena.

Methinks the NotSakurai Leak is fake.

"No Melee stages return"

(Cue Nintendo Direct, with footage of Jungle Japes)

Strike another one off the list.

 

[Banjodorf]

If he's looking at the Japanese version it'd take all of 5 seconds to pull up a wiki and identify the character, which he apparently had no problem doing for literally everyone else he predicted.

It just doesn't add up. The only real explanation, assuming the legitimacy of the leaker, is that this leaker either decidedly to be deliberately vague for some unknowable reason or the leaker himself has a source who decided to be vague when speaking with the leaker.



The leaker was wrong about the planned reveal schedule for Mac and, if they're in, Pac and Mii.

This doesn't mean that he was wrong about Pac and Mii being in the game, just that the leaker does not have 100% accurate information.

If the discussion is going to continue to circle around to "Why didn't he know the name of the character? That must means he's inaccurate." then I don't know why it's still being discussed.

The point stands that the guy has literally not been incorrect about a newcomer yet. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, we did get one.

That's not to say we can't get OTHER newcomers, because clearly Rosalina happened, but honestly.

What difference does it make? The people who deny that leaks exist and information can be flawed but still correct are still going to have these discussions until we know the full roster.

 

[Fenrir VII]

"animal crossing guy" and "a pokemon from x and y" aren't exactly pinpoint accurate.

Fact is, Salromano apparently got an E-mail from a source that he did not initially trust, hence the "random predictions" post, rather than explaining the leak before e3.

I still stand by the fact that WFT is the main/only credibility that the original e3 leak had, for the following reasons.
-Megaman and Villager/Tom Nook (which would both qualify for "animal crossing guy") were both widely talked about/guessed/predicted before Brawl and SSB4, so any "leak" with them only or without WFT would have been instantly discounted by the entire community after e3 (even if WFT weren't shown).
-If Pacman, Mac, or Mii had been shown, instead of WFT, the leak would never have left the ground.

basically, the original leak consists of 2 "good guess" characters, 1 "impossible guess" character, and 3 absolute no-brainer guesses... and which ones get shown off at e3? the three harder ones to guess... I have trouble thinking that's just a coincidence.

So my analysis leads me to believe that A) it was an incredible guess (unlikely) or B) the original leaker knew the first 3 chars (still don't understand how they nail WFT's name and whiff on villager's though), and decided to eff with us for the rest.


This second set of characters really solidifies option B in my mind.

Think about it, which characters were the most widely expected (note: I mean expected, not requested) characters in the new Smash, past who was already known? In particular, I'm looking at who would be shown in THIS direct. The list would look something like this:

-Mii's: They're literally in every Nintendo-made game lately.
-Pac-man: Game developed by Namco = Pac-man
-Palutena: Probably the most obvious choice of the entire game, considering Sakurai likes his previous games a LOT, and she's a cool char. And that leak...
-New char from FE, likely Chrom: this is a trend for the last 2 games... and considering the only other main char is Robin/MU or possibly Lucina, Chrom's a pretty safe guess
-A new Pokemon: This is pretty much a Gamefreak requirement, and has trended for all Smash games.
-Shulk: a somewhat expected char, considering Nintendo pushing X, and Monolith tweeting about this direct...

Note: I'm leaving Mewtwo out because salromano's source is only calling out newcomers, to which Mewtwo might just not apply...

So now considering that 6 of the 7 remaining "leaked chars" from salromano's source (Mii, Pac-man, Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, and X/Y Pokemon) cast just about the widest possible net of which newcomer could be shown in this direct, and he BARELY rimmed it with Greninja... why exactly WOULDN'T we expect him to get at least one right?

So basically, I'm saying we now have 6 remaining "leaked" characters, including 5 incredibly safe bets (which I expect at least 3 to make it in) and 1 "let's blow up the internet" guess to get people talking/complaining.


....I really think we're being screwed with here.

 

[TheTuninator]

If the discussion is going to continue to circle around to "Why didn't he know the name of the character? That must means he's inaccurate." then I don't know why it's still being discussed.

The point stands that the guy has literally not been incorrect about a newcomer yet. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, we did get one.

Did get one of what? "Pokemon from X & Y"? My entire contention is that predicting "Pokemon from X & Y" is far too vague to give credit for.

That's not to say we can't get OTHER newcomers, because clearly Rosalina happened, but honestly.

What difference does it make? The people who deny that leaks exist and information can be flawed but still correct are still going to have these discussions until we know the full roster.

I believe that leaks can be flawed but still correct, which is why I'm arguing that the likely legit WFT prediction can be flawed about other characters.

The whole point of this thread is to argue about rumors and leaks, and Sal's leak remains the only credible one, so of course we're going to continue talking about it.

So now considering that 6 of the 7 remaining "leaked chars" from salromano's source (Mii, Pac-man, Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, and X/Y Pokemon) cast just about the widest possible net of which newcomer could be shown in this direct, and he BARELY rimmed it with Greninja... why exactly WOULDN'T we expect him to get at least one right?

So basically, I'm saying we now have 6 remaining "leaked" characters, including 5 incredibly safe bets (which I expect at least 3 to make it in) and 1 "let's blow up the internet" guess to get people talking/complaining.


....I really think we're being screwed with here.

The "safeness" of the new picks, aside from Rhythm Heaven, also makes me a bit suspicious.

I totally buy that Sakurai would possibly give us a Rhythm Heaven rep, though.

 

[Banjodorf]

Just stop. Interpreting the interpretations will only lead to more misinterpretations.

And don't get me started on interpreting the "vagueness". It's obvious Animal Crossing Guy was Villager, not Tom Nook. Anyone who says otherwise is denying it for the sake of disliking the leak.

You can pretend him predicting Greninja (yes, I know, X&Y newcomer blah blah) was an accident all you'd like.

At the end of the day, all of those characters are probably going to be playable. If I'm wrong, I'll come back to this thread and apologize.

 

[TheTuninator]

Just stop. Interpreting the interpretations will only lead to more misinterpretations.

And don't get me started on interpreting the "vagueness". It's obvious Animal Crossing Guy was Villager, not Tom Nook. Anyone who says otherwise is denying it for the sake of disliking the leak.

You can pretend him predicting Greninja (yes, I know, X&Y newcomer blah blah) was an accident all you'd like.

At the end of the day, all of those characters are probably going to be playable. If I'm wrong, I'll come back to this thread and apologize.

Please don't get so worked up. This thread is for discussing rumors and leaks, and Sal's leak is both the only credible one and one of the few not only still alive but new and credible. Of course we're going to discuss it to death.

Nobody wants an apology.

The incredible vagueness and safe nature of the "Pokemon from X & Y" guess is not something that can just be handwaved away. It's not consistent with the rest of the leaker's information or his MO. People absolutely should be asking questions.

I just can't give any credence to such a vague prediction when, as Fenrir observes, every Smash game has Pokemon from the most recent gen as playable. Leaks need specific guesses to be credible.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Isn't it possible that, the leaker that said 'Pokémon from X and Y' simply isn't a Pokémon guy, thus maybe didn't know that Pokémon enough and just called it a 'XY Pokémon'?