SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

[BKupa666]

This is BS and I hate that everyone on these boards have somehow started parroting this. Sakurai is the lead developer. Meaning everything trickles down from him. If he once considered Ridley and now doesn't I don't see why his team wouldn't know that. You guys realize they have something called a production cycle. In which there are numerous meetings, discussions and concept art done. Sakurai doesn't make this game by himself and he wouldn't keep all these ideas to himself either. There's no inner circle of people privy to info. Everyone is working to model characters, design stages, polish and design sound/voice work, program moves, and insert text into the game. Why do you guys act like the creative director/producer or whatever he is wouldn't share his plans with the team. How can he even make the game without telling them his plans.

I don't necessarily believe the guy but I'm getting sick of people acting like a leaker can't say what Sakurai planned to do but didn't. Yets its superfluous information for the end consumer but it doesn't mean its fake.

If you guys have watched any sort of developer diary detailing the process of a game's production you'll see why it makes no sense to say "No one knows Sakurai's thought process" --- errrr yes we do. We can clearly see his thought process and the game that it produces. I'm sure Sakurai has lengthy discussions about his thought process with his team/Namco and that team relays his wishes, ideas, and thought process to other teams/Namco

Let me play devil's advocate here. While it's not impossible that a potential leaker would know the background information behind some development decisions, the degree to which some of these fakers claim to know Sakurai's thought process is just absurd. I'll reference a fake example (one of the ones I believe legendofrob made), where he talks about how Sakurai wanted Ridley, the team added Other M Ridley, then Sakurai saw this, lost his sh*t, and demanded Super Metroid Ridley be added instead. Is this sort of "Sakurai said..." drivel really worth taking seriously? Even if my example is a bit extreme, fakers who have any idea what they're doing are still using the exact same trope, just to a lesser degree. Should we really not view those statements with skepticism, given how "Sakurai said..." is often just a vessel for generating reader responses?

For Smash or otherwise, I'd enjoy being linked to any legitimate leak where the author specifically laid out the head developer's intentions. I believe this has never happened for Smash, but am curious to see if it has happened for other major games.

 

[Liggli]

Interesting observation. Can they be changed in-battle, perhaps, using the bottom screen? If so, he may have paused it and changed the outlines while it was paused.

Are everyone forgetting that Sakurai is the lead developer and can use all kinds of development tricks?
He can change anything on the fly.

Like on the picture where Mario, Lucario, and Mega Man attacks the Yellow Devil. They're very close together and don't damage each other... how? Because Sakurai can turn off damages/hitboxes. He's the lead developer!

Characters gets KOd instantly on the top screen in trailers? Maybe Sakurai did choose that to make it fast paced. He can do that... because; you know why.

 

[R0Y]

Any sane reason why people continually go over the Palutena pics over and over again?

The fact that they haven't been thoroughly debunked.

 

[Shin F.]

Are everyone forgetting that Sakurai is the lead developer and can use all kinds of development tricks?
He can change anything on the fly.

Like on the picture where Mario, Lucario, and Mega Man attacks the Yellow Devil. They're very close together and don't damage each other... how? Because Sakurai can turn off damages/hitboxes. He's the lead developer!

Characters gets KOd instantly on the top screen in trailers? Maybe Sakurai did choose that to make it fast paced. He can do that... because; you know why.

True, could be a debug menu or something.

Let me play devil's advocate here. While it's not impossible that a potential leaker would know the background information behind some development decisions, the degree to which some of these fakers claim to know Sakurai's thought process is just absurd. I'll reference a fake example (one of the ones I believe legendofrob made), where he talks about how Sakurai wanted Ridley, the team added Other M Ridley, then Sakurai saw this, lost his sh*t, and demanded Super Metroid Ridley be added instead. Is this sort of "Sakurai said..." drivel really worth taking seriously? Even if my example is a bit extreme, fakers who have any idea what they're doing are still using the exact same trope, just to a lesser degree. Should we really not view those statements with skepticism, given how "Sakurai said..." is often just a vessel for generating reader responses?

For Smash or otherwise, I'd enjoy being linked to any legitimate leak where the author specifically laid out the head developer's intentions. I believe this has never happened for Smash, but am curious to see if it has happened for other major games.

Could just be the difference between what one leaker thinks is important vs another. Maybe the others didn't think the reasoning mattered (it doesn't, of course) but another leaker might find the reasoning to be important details. So one leaves them out, the other tells everything he knows. Most would seem to not care for the thoughts behind the decisions being told, but every field has oddballs that think it would be important. And speaking as a graphic designer, creative directors do typically share their thoughts so they can get some kind of feedback. It's not completely out of the question that a real leak could have some details like that. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you knew Sakurai's thought process, it would be alot to learn from and his decisions aren't easy as 1, 2, 3.

 

[BKupa666]

True, could be a debug menu or something.

Could just be the difference between what one leaker thinks is important vs another. Maybe the others didn't think the reasoning mattered (it doesn't, of course) but another leaker might find the reasoning to be important details. So one leaves them out, the other tells everything he knows. Most would seem to not care for the thoughts behind the decisions being told, but every field has oddballs that think it would be important. And speaking as a graphic designer, creative directors do typically share their thoughts so they can get some kind of feedback. It's not completely out of the question that a real leak could have some details like that. Unlikely, but possible.

That leads me to my other thought that leads me to largely dismiss "Sakurai said..." info dumps: their heavy reliance on Sakurai himself. I don't deny that the sorts of people who could potentially leak information have access to the thoughts of creative developers, but it's just so convenient to me that the one guy who the entire fanbase is unhealthily obsessed with, the one guy who is the face of Smash Bros. development, the walking, *laugh*ing meme himself is the same guy fakers reference when rationalizing various tidbits within their "leaks." Referencing Sakurai as an authority figure and expecting people to play along is such a fanbase thing to do IMO.

I'd be more apt to listen if someone referenced just knowing a few rationales from a generic higher-up, rather than intricate explanations from the mouth of the Almighty Sakurai himself.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'd like to remind everyone discussing the overalls that even if they weren't in a slightly different frame (look at the different position Mario's chest is in), that it's been so long since that direct, and obviously numerous development changes have gone through. Something as mundane as Mario's overalls probably did change in that amount of time.

I mean, back then, we thought the capsule was going to look like it always did.

 

[Shin F.]

That leads me to my other thought that leads me to largely dismiss "Sakurai said..." info dumps: their heavy reliance on Sakurai himself. I don't deny that the sorts of people who could potentially leak information have access to the thoughts of creative developers, but it's just so convenient to me that the one guy who the entire fanbase is unhealthily obsessed with, the one guy who is the face of Smash Bros. development, the walking, *laugh*ing meme himself is the same guy fakers reference when rationalizing various tidbits within their "leaks." Referencing Sakurai as an authority figure and expecting people to play along is such a fanbase thing to do IMO.

I'd be more apt to listen if someone referenced just knowing a few rationales from a generic higher-up, rather than intricate explanations from the mouth of the Almighty Sakurai himself.

It's true that the more detailed the explanation, the closer the "leaker" would have to be to Sakurai to know it, and thus, the less likely they are to leak. I have no doubt that there are people working on the game who've only seen or heard from Sakurai in passing (maybe they're just doing something mundane like making trophies or writing their descriptions), and they would not be privy to many of those thoughts. These are the people most likely to leak, because they would be beneath Sakurai's attention for the most part, and so the wiser thing to do would be to not include any of the rationale even if they so happen to know it. I'm pretty much in agreement with you. While not impossible for that to happen, it's still highly improbable.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Mario having different overalls or whatever their positioning doesn't do much for the leak either way.

The picture today doesn't show much of anything. There still is no other source of either of the models, the background...nothing. For that to be shown fake, either one of Mario or Palutena would need to be proven fake. But I don't think that will happen at this point until there is a direct confirmation.

That's just plain nitpicky though. There are obviously going to be changes made to the game from the getgo. I just rewatched the Developer Direct, and if the final game looks like that, it'll be real boring. There isn't much change in Bowser's facial expressions...among other things. Things change, so Mario's overalls being a different shade or proportion shouldn't be the red flag.

 

[Arcanir]

I will say, when it comes to pictures, it's best to avoid nitpicking at details because oftentimes those little details do not disprove anything. To again use Pokémon XY (I'm finding I'm using that a lot), when it was leaking the Greninja and Hawlucha's pictures were nitpicked extensively. They were critiqued on minor pixels and other small details to prove that they were fake, but none of them stuck and ultimately were thrown out, which culminated in the reveal of those two later on.

In short, while this leak could be wrong, detail-picking is not going to disprove it. None of them are at a point where we can concretely say it throws the leak out, the only way that can happen at this point is if we either finally see Palutena in whatever capacity, or if the game comes out and she's not in it.

 

[Snagrio]

Pretty clear.

The official picture on the right, compared to more recent depictions of Mario, is actually less correct then the left. Mario's mustache is darker in newer shots, just like in the Palutena leak. So a change in the overall length of his overalls (horrible joke is horrible) shouldn't be surprising.

 

[Substitution]

The official picture on the right, compared to more recent depictions of Mario, is actually less correct then the left. Mario's mustache is darker in newer shots, just like in the Palutena leak. So a change in the overall length of his overalls (horrible joke is horrible) shouldn't be surprising.

Well, let me remind you that the pic was during E3.
Heck, they fixed that.

...And I also threw the overalls thing out the window.

 

[Snagrio]

Well, let me remind you that the pic was during E3.
Heck, they fixed that.

...And I also threw the overalls thing out the window.

Yeah, you pretty much did.

 

[Substitution]

Yeah, you pretty much did.

I swear it was an afterthought.
...It's like I suck at debunking or something.

 

[Luigi#1]

Well, let me remind you that the pic was during E3.
Heck, they fixed that.

...And I also threw the overalls thing out the window.

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

 

[Silvera]

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

You might be on to something. Still there has to be more to this in order to fill in the blank.

 

[Luigi#1]

You might be on to something. Still there has to be more to this in order to fill in the blank.

I-I found something that might be okay?

 

[Hoots]

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

What? That the fingers look different?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

While the hand comparison is interesting, I do not think that really points to anything. Mario maintains his hands in the shape of a fist the entire duration of his idle stance.

The only thing that bothers me about Mario is the fact that from watching his idle stance, his hands don't really appear in that area. Unless of course that was changed in development.

 

[Substitution]

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

Well, since I stopped caring a long time ago...

I might as well.
Mind you, the 3DS doesn't really go in detail in terms of "stretching".

The textures on Mario's suspenders we're made to look like this, and only like this.

Different position, same textures.

Different position once again, but the exact same textures.
(Also Mario your head is... Um never mind.)

And now, with that said.
Allow me to cry in the corner as I've betrayed my kind.

 

[Snagrio]

Mario's stomach is stretched out in this stance. It's one thing for it to change in a stance that actually streches out, it's another to be in basically the same stance.
EDIT:

Well that's a coincidence.

The thumb is slightly different.

 

[Luigi#1]

What? That the fingers look different?

How so?

While the hand comparison is interesting, I do not think that really points to anything. Mario maintains his hands in the shape of a fist the entire duration of his idle stance.

The only thing that bothers me about Mario is the fact that from watching his idle stance, his hands don't really appear in that area. Unless of course that was changed in development.

It does prove that he could have taken plenty of elements from over things.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

How so?

It does prove that he could have taken plenty of elements from over things.

He COULD have. But that leaves the entirety of the pictures to disprove.

I mean really, for it to actually prove something, it would have to be something a lot more substantial than that. Especially considering that's circumstantial at best. There's hardly a big enough difference between the hands.

 

[Snagrio]

Different position once again, but the exact same textures.
(Also Mario your head is... Um never mind.)

And now, with that said.
Allow me to cry in the corner as I've betrayed my kind.

Wow, I forgot how bad that screenshot looks. Almost looks like a fake leak.

 

[DraginHikari]

The the biggest problem with this situation with Palutena, if it is real we have no idea what the picture were from or what build of the game is from or if the models have changed since the pictures were taken.

If it's fake it still means the effort to modify the Mario spirit in additional to the complex Palutena model would be pretty drastic. There's too many uncertainities in the various things going on which is why I said very few things would be changed as a result. It's going to take more then a few graphic nitpicks to kill it.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

He COULD have. But that leaves the entirety of the pictures to disprove.

I mean really, for it to actually prove something, it would have to be something a lot more substantial than that. Especially considering that's circumstantial at best. There's hardly a big enough difference between the hands.

Exactly this. The Palutena picture has too much going for it in my opinion - chances are these comparison shots only differ due to various development tweaks. Were it fake, I just can't believe that the person would go into so much detail to make it perfect, only to screw up on the animation and overalls.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The the biggest problem with this situation with Palutena, if it is real we have no idea what the picture were from or what build of the game is from or if the models have changed since the pictures were taken.

If it's fake it still means the effort to modify the Mario spirit in additional to the complex Palutena model would be pretty drastic. There's too many uncertainities in the various things going on which is why I said very few minutes would be changed as a result. It's going to take more then a few graphic nitpicks to kill it.

Exactly. There are far too many unknowns (consistent Mario, unique Palutena, unique background...etc...) to have a minor nitpick disprove this one.

 

[Substitution]

Wow, I forgot how bad that screenshot looks. Almost looks like a fake leak.

Well, clipping does that.

 

[-VictoriaJustice-]

so much discussion

for a lazy boy like me, this is like, hell with girls everywhere. It's about a subject I adore, yet, there is too much writing.

I'm out. I shall be lurking.

 

[Luigi#1]

How dare

Well, since I stopped caring a long time ago...

I might as well.
Mind you, the 3DS doesn't really go in detail in terms of "stretching".

The textures on Mario's suspenders we're made to look like this, and only like this.

Different position, same textures.

Different position once again, but the exact same textures.
(Also Mario your head is... Um never mind.)

And now, with that said.
Allow me to cry in the corner as I've betrayed my kind.

I will give you that. But the reason that it appears longer is because in all of those pictures except the one that makes it longer is that his neck visable only in the first one. What I mean its that there is a neck shape in his cloths at the first one. Also, it is shorter in the other pics you showed. With the pics, you just showed it varies. It's medium in the second one, and short in the third.

 

[Luigi#1]

The thumb is slightly different.

That can be slightly changed to make it more so realistic.

 

[Z25]

Just to derail from this palutena discussion real quick. That Layton picture thing, is that actually from Nintendo Uk and are we sure they are not pretending it's a joke? Because that would make for a great trailer!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm, gonna steer clear of this discussion until things have settled down.

 

[Substitution]

How dare

I never though this would happen myself.

Then again, I feel a bit better just being neutral ground in this scenario (not by much though).

I will give you that. But the reason that it appears longer is because in all of those pictures except the one that makes it longer is that his neck visable only in the first one. What I mean its that there is a neck shape in his cloths at the first one. Also, it is shorter in the other pics you showed. With the pics, you just showed it varies. It's medium in the second one, and short in the third.

Honestly, it could be my awful eyesight.
But the overalls look almost identical. It's just the angles they're in.

I'm, gonna steer clear of this discussion until things have settled down.

I'll second that.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'm, gonna steer clear of this discussion until things have settled down.

So will I, this isn't the place for a treasure hunter as it looks now.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Just to derail from this palutena discussion real quick. That Layton picture thing, is that actually from Nintendo Uk and are we sure they are not pretending it's a joke? Because that would make for a great trailer!

It's in the magazine, got a copy here. It's in a section at the back full of hypothetical scenarios in which he could appear in other games. Legend of Zelda also has a very similar hat picture and a hypothetical scenario for his inclusion too. It's firmly tongue in cheek.

Edit: Included an example of just how ridiculous the whole section is

 

[Snagrio]

I-I found something that might be okay?

What have you done. Don't you know what happened last time someone posted a Spongebob gif on this thread?

 

[Substitution]

What have you done. Don't you know what happened last time someone posted a Spongebob gif on this thread?

And it was magical.

 

[Z25]

It's in the magazine, got a copy here. It's in a section at the back full of hypothetical scenarios in which he could appear in other games. Legend of Zelda also has a very similar hat picture and a hypothetical scenario for his inclusion too. It's firmly tongue in cheek.

Edit: Included an example of just how ridiculous the whole section is

Ok, thanks this are a bit ridiculous and why are they focused on Layton?

 

[Luigi#1]

What have you done. Don't you know what happened last time someone posted a Spongebob gif on this thread?

Oh god...