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SSB4 Rumours and Leaks

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Vintage Creep

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Any number lower than 12 newcomers would disappoint me deeply.
I don't believe this leak at all simply because it would be an horrendous scenario.
 

BKupa666

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As annoying as it would be to have a smaller newcomer roster, it could be a case of the fans not being able to have their cake and eat it too, not being able to have no cuts and still a massive jump in newcomers. If this proves legitimate, I would also place blame on the existence of the 3DS version for sapping away the time that may have otherwise gone to Ridley and the like.

Counting Mewtwo and Roy as newcomers, 8 newcomers (with only two major exclusions) is not too terrible a scenario.
 

Jumpman84

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It appears that the evil mods at GameFAQs have purged the topic as I cannot find it again. Oh well, was probably fake.
 

Vintage Creep

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The problem is that Smash Bros. is not the type of game of which any new installment must simply provide a different, hopefully better experience like Mario, or Zelda, in which the numbers of levels/dungeons for example may vary without creating any problem.
Smash Bros. has its biggest strength in the fact that every new installment is a more of the same. It's one of those rare cases in which quantity is almost as important as quality.
They could make Sm4sh technically perfect from a gameplay perspective, but if the total roster is of 20 characters it would be an half failure to say the least. Smash Bros. needs new things, possibly MANY new things, to please the fans. It's really that easy.
Since we already know we're probably not getting a single-player mode so vast as the Subspace Emissary was, also not getting a respectable number of newcomers would greatly disappoint me (and not only me). Let's face it, 6 new characters isn't enough. Simple as that.
 

Baskerville

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It depends on how much they put into the 3DS version, if the amount of content in the 3DS version is less than Brawl then adding more characters shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 

Morbi

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I would be pretty disappointed if there were only a few newcomers and the whole Brawl cast being back. :/
It would feel like Brawl+.
That is what I have been saying this entire time. Cuts are necessary evil. One truly needs to consider that we wont get Smash X until the Wii X comes out. That could be 5 years for the next game, do we truly want the same game we have already been playing for 5 years. I do not.
 

majora_787

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That was one of the fakest leaks I've seen in quite some time. They work with Namco and in two years can only get half of SSB64's roster done? That's a pretty big red flag for me right there. Not to mention saying no to similar characters but keeping Luigi or Toon Link. Or saying no to japan only characters and keeping Lucas. Or picking Palutena over someone more interesting. /Half joking
 
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@Morbid: And yet you cannot fathom Jigglypuff as a potential sacrifice. :troll:
 

Jumpman84

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That is what I have been saying this entire time. Cuts are necessary evil. One truly needs to consider that we wont get Smash X until the Wii X comes out. That could be 5 years for the next game, do we truly want the same game we have already been playing for 5 years. I do not.
I disagree. There should never EVER be cuts in a game. It's one thing if Sakurai runs out of time and can't implement everyone. It's something else entirely to cut someone from the roster intentionally. Sure, cuts can be inevitable and even Sakurai acknowledged that he can't bring everyone back. But he recognizes that each character has a fanbase and is trying to make sure that we have as many characters as possible.

Yes, newcomers are important and can be prioritized over veterans at times, but they shouldn't go out of their way to cut veterans just because.
 

Morbi

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@Morbid: And yet you cannot fathom Jigglypuff as a potential sacrifice. :troll:
I wouldn't actually mind to be honest. I just want a fun, innovative, and interesting game. I would be willing to sacrifice all of my mains for the cause.

I disagree. There should never EVER be cuts in a game. It's one thing if Sakurai runs out of time and can't implement everyone. It's something else entirely to cut someone from the roster intentionally. Sure, cuts can be inevitable and even Sakurai acknowledged that he can't bring everyone back. But he recognizes that each character has a fanbase and is trying to make sure that we have as many characters as possible.

Yes, newcomers are important and can be prioritized over veterans at times, but they shouldn't go out of their way to cut veterans just because.
That is a good point and precisely why cuts are so difficult for Sakurai. He knows that he must in order to introduce new and interesting play-styles while introducing new fans to the game. However, he doesn't want to disappoint anyone that is already a fan. I want cuts, because I don't want to be playing Smash: Call of Duty. You don't want cuts, because you enjoy the game as it is and most cuts are unwarranted. It is understandable. I just think that he should innovate a little.

I am not advocating an excessive amount of cuts. Cutting some justifiable characters like Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer, and possibly Ridley isn't a bad thing as we now have room for other characters. You don't want to introduce the same game with slightly different mechanics. The hardcore fans will love it, the casuals will think that they wasted their money. Smash is a console-seller. You don't want to sell your console with Brawl 2.0.

I respect your opinion though, it is how I used to feel.
 
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I love how people act as though characters make the game.

"Oh noes, if we only get few new characters and everyone else stays, the game is barely different!!!"
Please.
It's the overall experience that makes the change. Having less newer characters yet an altered feel of gameplay, new mechanics, items, stages, options, modes, etc. alongside the returning characters getting some new moves here or there is perfectly viable in the aspect of change.
 

Morbi

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I love how people act as though characters make the game.

"Oh noes, if we only get few new characters and everyone else stays, the game is barely different!!!"
Please.
It's the overall experience that makes the change. Having less newer characters yet an altered feel of gameplay, new mechanics, items, stages, options, modes, etc. alongside the returning characters getting some new moves here or there is perfectly viable in the aspect of change.
That is a good point, characters aren't everything. They are a significant portion of the game though. The entire premise of the game is character based, most of the reveals that induce hype are character based. I would prefer an excellent net-code, decent balance (without impeding on the fun), and a plethora of adequate stages over new characters. It is really the surface that I am discussing. The new items seem interesting enough though, the Rocket and the Subgun. I just don't want to play the same characters over and over again.

As I stated, I do not believe we need to cut the roster in half or anything. 3 or 4 cuts is MORE than enough.
 

Vintage Creep

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That is what I have been saying this entire time. Cuts are necessary evil. One truly needs to consider that we wont get Smash X until the Wii X comes out. That could be 5 years for the next game, do we truly want the same game we have already been playing for 5 years. I do not.
Probably even more. Anyway sure, cut away, but only characters who deserve to be cut.
Keeping Toon Link and cutting, say, the Trainer, would be incredibly stupid.
 

TewnLeenk

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Dang I was gone for a few days, what's this giant leak everyone's talking about? Can someone give me a summary? Thanks <3
 

Vintage Creep

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Dang I was gone for a few days, what's this giant leak everyone's talking about? Can someone give me a summary? Thanks <3
Only six newcomers (K. Rool, Bowser Jr. and Palutena are the others), Mewtwo and Roy are back, 6/7 stages from all previous installments, Xenoblade stage but Shulk as an AT, no cuts.
 

Man Li Gi

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People, people. I highly doubt any character shall be cut. Sakurai said that early on because he did not realize how powerful the 3DS is (almost as strong as the Wii if not more). Sakurai also said he is cutting the story out which would free up a lot of space. Sakurai has always pushed each system to its limit since Kirby's Adventure. I highly doubt that trend will end.
 

majora_787

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It's not so unreasonable to think characters make the game. If it were any other fighting game made of original characters with 100% of the purpose being a fighting game, it'd be different.

But this game's point lies in being a Nintendo crossover fighting game. If you take out the components that make it a good crossover, you've removed half of the experience. And while it's accumualtively characters stages items and music, characters and stages are the things every player will be able to appreciate when they play the game.
 

MasterOfKnees

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People, people. I highly doubt any character shall be cut. Sakurai said that early on because he did not realize how powerful the 3DS is (almost as strong as the Wii if not more). Sakurai also said he is cutting the story out which would free up a lot of space. Sakurai has always pushed each system to its limit since Kirby's Adventure. I highly doubt that trend will end.
The fear of characters getting cut doesn't exist because of the 3DS, which as you say certainly isn't very limiting, but rather because of time constraints, which was the reason for the Brawl cuts.

We'll see if it helps that they aren't tied to a release date as of yet, I'd prefer if they set a late release date but got all character from Brawl returning plus a decent cast of newcomers. That's about an additional half a year of waiting for many years of entertainment, I'll gladly take that.
 

oxyborb

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I feel like I should make a fake leak so that this thread can revert to being about rumors, rather than just being another junk roster thread. Hrm...

So, Sakurai told me that Toon Link is getting cut, after all. Him being on the website is a distraction. Also, Sandbag is a full-fledged character this time around. Classic Yoshi has been replaced by the one from the Mario Bros. live action movie. SlippyToad + Navi the Fairy are one character together like Ice Climbers. Also, Sakurai said that Ridley is so big that he's a stage, and you fight on this back/wings. Geno is fully playable, but they're planning on removing him from the game right after release due to scheduled copyright issues. All of the rest of the character slots are filled with variations of Banana Dee, which have the exact same moveset as Captain Falcon.
 

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I feel like I should make a fake leak so that this thread can revert to being about rumors, rather than just being another junk roster thread. Hrm...

So, Sakurai told me that Toon Link is getting cut, after all. Him being on the website is a distraction. Also, Sandbag is a full-fledged character this time around. Classic Yoshi has been replaced by the one from the Mario Bros. live action movie. SlippyToad + Navi the Fairy are one character together like Ice Climbers. Also, Sakurai said that Ridley is so big that he's a stage, and you fight on this back/wings. Geno is fully playable, but they're planning on removing him from the game right after release due to scheduled copyright issues. All of the rest of the character slots are filled with variations of Banana Dee, which have the exact same moveset as Captain Falcon.
I would totally main Banana Dee.
 

majora_787

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I was told that Toon Link's reveal was legitimate, but Toon Link was actually an elaborate alt costume for Vaati. Sakurai's lying to SOMEONE here.
 

Man Li Gi

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The fear of characters getting cut doesn't exist because of the 3DS, which as you say certainly isn't very limiting, but rather because of time constraints, which was the reason for the Brawl cuts.

We'll see if it helps that they aren't tied to a release date as of yet, I'd prefer if they set a late release date but got all character from Brawl returning plus a decent cast of newcomers. That's about an additional half a year of waiting for many years of entertainment, I'll gladly take that.
Sakurai also did claim he may delay the 3DS release. If he did, that would be amazing marketing and a better game.
 

D-idara

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I love how people act as though characters make the game.

"Oh noes, if we only get few new characters and everyone else stays, the game is barely different!!!"
Please.
It's the overall experience that makes the change. Having less newer characters yet an altered feel of gameplay, new mechanics, items, stages, options, modes, etc. alongside the returning characters getting some new moves here or there is perfectly viable in the aspect of change.
That's where you're wrong, characters make Smash what it is.
 

Vann Accessible

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I scoff at this silly rumor. Not because of the low number of new faces, but the choices.

First of all, Roy is completely irrelevant.
Second, any roster without Little Mac is not credible.
 

APC99

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Only six newcomers (K. Rool, Bowser Jr. and Palutena are the others), Mewtwo and Roy are back, 6/7 stages from all previous installments, Xenoblade stage but Shulk as an AT, no cuts.

So, that's kind of stupid. That's what, 43 characters? I honestly hope for at least 12 newcomers (not including Mewtwo, so 36 already on the roster): Villager, Mega Man, WFT, K. Rool, Palutena, Ridley, Little Mac, Mii, Pac-Man and 3 obscure characters of Sakurai's choice. So, around 48 works for me. 2 extra characters would be appreciated, but aren't necessary.
 

Jumpman84

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That's where you're wrong, characters make Smash what it is.
WRONG, SIR! WRONG!!

Characters + stages + items + modes + trophies and stickers+ gameplay = Smash Bros. One factor does not make or break a Smash game...
 

soviet prince

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I love how people act as though characters make the game.

"Oh noes, if we only get few new characters and everyone else stays, the game is barely different!!!"
Please.
It's the overall experience that makes the change. Having less newer characters yet an altered feel of gameplay, new mechanics, items, stages, options, modes, etc. alongside the returning characters getting some new moves here or there is perfectly viable in the aspect of change.
I dont know about you but the character re a big reason I love this game, so to me it is the most imp thing
 

BKupa666

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My theory is that anyone who claims characters don't matter to Smash are satisfied with the characters already in the game.

Anyways, reading over today's posts, the emerging trend is claiming "this leak is false because it involves something I don't like," be it fewer newcomers or the absence of other characters. You know, not any of the legitimate reasons to discredit the leak, such as the guy's whacked-out narrative about Sakurai being a closeted d***, or the fact that he has an answer to literally everything (like Halibuton back in the day), but massive reaching because the roster isn't exactly the most satisfying. Before the thread got locked, there was even some guy claiming how "this leak is false because it doesn't include Pacman, and not adding third parties isn't like Sakurai." I mean, what?!
 

FlareHabanero

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Along with the reasoning behind Chrom & Lucina, to I question with: Why bring TL back then?
Body structure.

There is a pretty clear cut different between Link and Toon Link due to the different body structure, age, and style. Because of this, they still have a notable contrast that makes it so that you can tell the difference between the two. Like take a look below and you can see what I mean.



But the reason why Toon Link is back... because we're forced to stomach a younger Link I guess. Bleh.
 

Jumpman84

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My theory is that anyone who claims characters don't matter to Smash are satisfied with the characters already in the game.

Anyways, reading over today's posts, the emerging trend is claiming "this leak is false because it involves something I don't like," be it fewer newcomers or the absence of other characters. You know, not any of the legitimate reasons to discredit the leak, such as the guy's whacked-out narrative about Sakurai being a closeted d***, or the fact that he has an answer to literally everything (like Halibuton back in the day), but massive reaching because the roster isn't exactly the most satisfying. Before the thread got locked, there was even some guy claiming how "this leak is false because it doesn't include Pacman, and not adding third parties isn't like Sakurai." I mean, what?!
Hey, I'm not some guy! I was merely asking because I wanted to know his reasoning for a lack of a fourth third party. That was including Pac-Man, who is part of the "Little Pac-Mii" rumor and wasn't addressed. (In fact, neither Pac-Man or Mii were addressed, which was suspect as they are considered likely).
 

BKupa666

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Hey, I'm not some guy! I was merely asking because I wanted to know his reasoning for a lack of a fourth third party. That was including Pac-Man, who is part of the "Little Pac-Mii" rumor and wasn't addressed. (In fact, neither Pac-Man or Mii were addressed, which was suspect as they are considered likely).
Oh, that was you? That's funny; at the time, I was basically passing over all other usernames except the "leaker's," so I must have missed it. But from what I remember, you worded the post strangely, as if it were out-of-character for Sakurai to not add third parties when he's explicitly claimed in multiple interviews how tough they are to manage and how we shouldn't expect many of them.

Link and Toon Link are quite obviously different in appearance, far moreso than Marth and Chrom, so I don't know why that's being discussed as a red flag when it's clearly another example of reaching. And while Sakurai specifically wanting international retro characters is quite odd, it's not out of the question that he'd want a more sizable amount of audience exposure to a decades-dormant character who's already going to be unknown to most players, moreso than those from larger series like Fire Emblem or Mother.

Again, I'll say that my biggest reason for doubting this as of now is that the guy has an answer to literally every question you throw at him. That's a pretty great indicator that he's making stuff up on the spot, and just happens to be eloquent and in-tune with the fanbase enough to pull it off in a somewhat convincing manner...at least until the "Sakurai is a d**k" narrative comes into play.
 

FlareHabanero

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By the way, a generally better idea would be compare Marth and Chrom to Mario and Luigi, not so much Link and Toon Link. Mainly because of both cases, both the characters share a similar body structure and have a blood relation. Marth and Chrom even use the same weapon, the Falchion, albeit Chrom having a modified version of it due to the weapon being forged over the years.
 

Jumpman84

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Oh, that was you? That's funny; at the time, I was basically passing over all other usernames except the "leaker's," so I must have missed it. But from what I remember, you worded the post strangely, as if it were out-of-character for Sakurai to not add third parties when he's explicitly claimed in multiple interviews how tough they are to manage and how we shouldn't expect many of them.

Link and Toon Link are quite obviously different in appearance, far moreso than Marth and Chrom, so I don't know why that's being discussed as a red flag when it's clearly another example of reaching. And while Sakurai specifically wanting international retro characters is quite odd, it's not out of the question that he'd want a more sizable amount of audience exposure to a decades-dormant character who's already going to be unknown to most players, moreso than those from larger series like Fire Emblem or Mother.

Again, I'll say that my biggest reason for doubting this as of now is that the guy has an answer to literally every question you throw at him. That's a pretty great indicator that he's making stuff up on the spot, and just happens to be eloquent and in-tune with the fanbase enough to pull it off in a somewhat convincing manner...at least until the "Sakurai is a d**k" narrative comes into play.
Well, to be fair, I did say it wasn't like Sakurai to not have a FOURTH third-party, which is true. If there were only three this time, he wouldn't have revealed Mega Man so early, he would have saved him for closer to release to generate more hype, much like Sonic. He added two third parties in Brawl, so it's reasonable to think that we'll get Mega Man and another third party in Smash 4. I also did ask him about Young Link being DLC and said he was mean to make Sakurai cut Dr. Mario (again).

And yeah, anyone who says that about Sakurai is obviously fake or a jerk themselves.
 

BKupa666

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Well, to be fair, I did say it wasn't like Sakurai to not have a FOURTH third-party, which is true. If there were only three this time, he wouldn't have revealed Mega Man so early, he would have saved him for closer to release to generate more hype, much like Sonic. He added two third parties in Brawl, so it's reasonable to think that we'll get Mega Man and another third party in Smash 4. I also did ask him about Young Link being DLC and said he was mean to make Sakurai cut Dr. Mario (again).

And yeah, anyone who says that about Sakurai is obviously fake or a jerk themselves.
...well, to be fair, then, I definitely disagree. Sakurai revealed Snake at E3 2006, fully intending that he'd be Brawl's only third party character, until Sonic was added a little over a year later, last-minute. This time, he also presumably has Snake as a somewhat surprising third party veteran to show off later, so expecting four third parties outright just seems to be begging for disappointment.

I don't doubt Sakurai being a potential d***, but it's hilarious how intricately he wrapped that little detail into his story. Like, he's a concept guy who pitches ideas to Sakurai, but Sakurai is a grouchy guy who doesn't like to be questioned, so he gets "relieved of his duties pre-release" and stops by on GameFAQs on a whim to share info because why the hell not? I'd say you couldn't write a better tale...except the guy kind of did.
 

Shorts

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As annoying as it would be to have a smaller newcomer roster, it could be a case of the fans not being able to have their cake and eat it too, not being able to have no cuts and still a massive jump in newcomers. If this proves legitimate, I would also place blame on the existence of the 3DS version for sapping away the time that may have otherwise gone to Ridley and the like.

Counting Mewtwo and Roy as newcomers, 8 newcomers (with only two major exclusions) is not too terrible a scenario.
It is if Sakurai wants to sell a ****ing game. How stupid would he have to be to add 8 newcomers? Really. I think he'd drop the veteran count before he let 8 newcomers be the amount he adds.
 

BKupa666

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It is if Sakurai wants to sell a ****ing game.
What arbitrary number of newcomers does he need to reach for a ****ing game to sell? 9, 10, 11, 12...?

EDIT: How stupid would he need to be to add tripping? To waste 60% of Brawl's development time on a dull-as-dishwater adventure mode? Et cetera, et cetera. There are hordes and hordes of people who buy Smash Bros. because it is Smash Bros., regardless of who's in. Some of them are in this very thread, talking about how characters don't matter in the long run.
 

Shorts

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What arbitrary number of newcomers does he need to reach for a ****ing game to sell? 9, 10, 11, 12...?
It's not that hard. People buy Smash because of the characters in it. It's a fighting game, so the game itself is completetly based around characters. When you stop adding what the people want, there's going to be problems. It isn't rocket science.

You SHOULD be mad if we don't get a lot of newcomers. We're the consumers, they should cater to us. It's our jobs to tell Nintendo what we want. If they **** up, they need to know. We're BUYING these games and systems after all. There business is based on our happiness.
 
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