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Guide [SSB4] Kirby's Epic Guide (ver. 2.1)

Bacon1086

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
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4
@ Bacon1086 Bacon1086 , sounds cool I'm curious as to what you'll do with it. Show us what you got!
It kinda sucks cause right now all I have is the N64 version on my Wii Virtual Console, but I think his fight mechanics are basically the same in all the games or at least I play the same way haha. It's really pretty simple you just have to be able to adapt to the fight and use Kirby's attacks to help move him around the map!
 

t!MmY

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So I made an account just because I really felt I had to give you all my information about Kirby, and hopefully make us all better.

I may be totally crazy, but everything I read says that [Stone] is so so bad and lists it's negatives, but I really think it's key to making Kirby a much much more powerful character to play with.
Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack. This actually shows how little-used the Stone is suppose to be in this regard: attacks that can KO will only be useful when the opponent is at a high enough damage (generally around 100%), which is not very often. Additionally, the Stone only KO's if the opponent is directly below Kirby after he begins to plummet, and, more accurately, when he is also unlikely to defend against it successfully (e.g. jumping up for a slow Aerial Attack, or standing in place holding an attack like charged Up-Smash). This tells us that using Stone as a KO option should be somewhat rare.

Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!
 
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LimitCrown

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Some of the damage values in the guide needs to be corrected.

Kirby's neutral aerial deals 10%, 8%, 6%, or 4% depending on when the move hits.

When Kirby's exhales Bowser Jr. at opponents, the star deals 16% damage instead of 14%. For Fox and Falco, the star deals 13% damage. Dedede's icon is also missing.

Kirby's pummel attack deals 1.5% damage. Also, down throw deals 0.4% damage for the first 9 hits of the throw, then it deals 1% and 2% damage for the last two parts of the throw.
 

t!MmY

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Some of the damage values in the guide needs to be corrected.
Thank you for the feedback. These, along with others, will be collectively included with the next update. Specifically I have to double-check all values alongside the data being provided by Thinkaman, et al.
 

Jay-kun

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Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack. This actually shows how little-used the Stone is suppose to be in this regard: attacks that can KO
Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!

Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a sin
Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack. This actually shows how little-used the Stone is suppose to be in this regard: attacks that can KO
Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!

Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack.
gle attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack.

Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!
(Dont have time 2 shorten quote xD) You forgot using it grounded to knock opponents very horizantal, and using it as an edgeguard....also you should mention more on customs
 

t!MmY

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You forgot using it grounded to knock opponents very horizantal, and using it as an edgeguard....also you should mention more on customs
The grounded hit was mentioned here:
...but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor.
Though I apologize for not being completely exhaustive in my post. Perhaps you'd like to elucidate on the points you've provided?
 

Jay-kun

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The grounded hit was mentioned here:

Though I apologize for not being completely exhaustive in my post. Perhaps you'd like to elucidate on the points you've provided?
Ok so we wanna speak in 3rd person now great:b:
Jay-kun will eludicate but he doesn't know big words :(
Jay-kun has used grounded stone before as part of his mix-up game, he likes to use it deep into the match when his opponent is feeling comfortable about Jay-kun's bread and butter combos and patterns. Jay-kun has noticed that all the people knocked horizantally by grounded stone immediately jump asap. Jay-kun thinks that with timing and good reads, he can dair or bair an opponent who had been knocked horizantally by grounded stone.
Grounded stone is a good punisher and potentionally a better punish than a hammer or a smash attack. Example 1: Charizard flare blitzes to Jay-kun, who reads and then punishes with a side smash/hammer flip. Mr.Charizard is knocked at a 30~ ° angle/ 50~° angle and recovers with his 2 midair jumps and his side special (Mr.Charizard's weight proves dissatisfying results to Jay-kun). Example 2: Charizard flare blitzes to Jay-kun, who reads and then punishes with a grounded hammer. Poor Mr.Charizard is knocked offstage and down, and forced to use his midair jumps and up special to recover, moves easily punishable by Jay-kun's Kirby awesomeness xD.
Jay-kun wants to talk about dmg and customs, but he is sleepy
zzzz..
 

Bacon1086

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
4
Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack. This actually shows how little-used the Stone is suppose to be in this regard: attacks that can KO will only be useful when the opponent is at a high enough damage (generally around 100%), which is not very often. Additionally, the Stone only KO's if the opponent is directly below Kirby after he begins to plummet, and, more accurately, when he is also unlikely to defend against it successfully (e.g. jumping up for a slow Aerial Attack, or standing in place holding an attack like charged Up-Smash). This tells us that using Stone as a KO option should be somewhat rare.

Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!

Thanks for taking the time to join in on the discussions - especially since you had to make an account to do so. It's always nice to hear other people's thoughts so that we can all learn from each other. I too feel that Kirby's Stone is overlooked, but I won't go so far as to say it's the 'most overlooked' move he has, since all his moves still have a lot of potential use considering how new the game still is.

Maybe I can share some ideas why the Stone may not get a lot of rave reviews from the 'tournament players'.

Being up high against a single opponent is not an especially advantageous position to be in (especially in this version of Smash). Starting up the Stone takes a good deal of time, and in a tournament setting the skilled opponent will be on the lookout for even quick moves in order to punish them. Add to the transformation time an additional amount of time it takes for Kirby to drop down to wherever the opponent is on the vertical scale and we now have a good amount of time for the opponent to successfully defend against the Stone.

Cancelling the Stone early is nice, but that can only be done if it hits. Considering how easily the Stone can be evaded this means that you may not even have the option to cancel it as early as you'd like. Reverting out of Stone form takes Kirby a good amount of time as well, easily enough for someone nearby to get a strong punish (a charged Smash Attack if near the Stone, a dashing Up-Smash if far, or at least a Grab or Aerial Attack if farther away).

Now that we have seen the 'risk' we can look at the 'reward' for successfully landing a Stone. The Stone itself does 18% damage, which is decent enough for a single attack. It's real reward comes more from the fact that it can potentially KO like a Smash Attack. This actually shows how little-used the Stone is suppose to be in this regard: attacks that can KO will only be useful when the opponent is at a high enough damage (generally around 100%), which is not very often. Additionally, the Stone only KO's if the opponent is directly below Kirby after he begins to plummet, and, more accurately, when he is also unlikely to defend against it successfully (e.g. jumping up for a slow Aerial Attack, or standing in place holding an attack like charged Up-Smash). This tells us that using Stone as a KO option should be somewhat rare.

Now, this is not to say that the Stone doesn't have additional uses and 'rewards'. This is where the potential to using Stone starts to creep in. Using Stone for it's powerful and dominating downward decent to net KOs is the most obvious use, but it has additional properties: trajectory and velocity change, impressive Shield Damage, a 'ground pound', and a unique form of Super Armor. Weaving these options into one's gameplay is where the potential to Stone will begin to be seen. Unfortunately, talking about any one of those potentialities could take a whole post all to itself... and this post is already much, much longer than I had intended.

Again, thanks for joining in on the discussion, I hope we can continue to learn from each other and help others learn as well!

Yeah I think it definitely has a lot of risks, but once you get used to using it it's pretty easy to realize the risks and learn how to use them to your advantage. For example, the fact that it is easily dodged. Most opponents catch on very quickly to the stone attack and begin to dodge, so what you have to do is recognize when the stone will or will not connect. If I see it isn't going to land and deal damage I transform back while I'm higher in the air than most other players can jump to and figure out what attack to come down with. As Kirby I think being in the air is good, because I mean if someone tries to attack from the bottom you use the Stone and they get knocked back. If they stay away to let you land you can use the Final Cutter to hit them from a distance, and as you are coming down to use the Final Cutter attack you can move left to right a bit, so you can avoid putting yourself in a risky situation.

The other thing I think people don't realize about the Stone is that you don't have to be above the players head to do that attack. What I mean by that is, if Kirby is standing on the ground and you are next to your opponent the Stone does damage. So the whole risk of having to be high in the air goes away and it is A LOT harder to dodge haha.
The down of this is that is IS hard to get a clean transformation quickly, but what I try an do is connect while in Stone form and then immediately transform back, and use the Final Cutter. Because if you connect with the Stone they will be knocked back, and more often than not they immediately hop up and run back. If you get the timing down correctly you transform and go straight into the Final Cutter right as they are getting back to you and you will connect again!

I guess the main thing I keep in mind about Kirby is the fact that they gave him the ability to move so far through the air. I think it has to be essential to his character, and it allows you to set up the Stone attack very well!
 

Zethoro

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Hey! I'm a fellow Kirby user who's had him as a main/secondary all the way back to 64 (even back in Melee...eugh), and I've been paying close attention to this guide. Your Brawl guide really helped me out, in addition to this one.
With that said, I'm not here for introductions, I'm here to share the smallest of small tidbits that might be benificial to know. I researched it and I've got the weights for Kirby under the Shield and Smash Monado Arts.
Smash Kirby's weight is ~66, and Shield Kirby's Weight is ~110.
If you need proof or need to know how I got these numbers, check the posts from @Masonomace and I in the weight rankings thread below.
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/page-8
 
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t!MmY

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Smash Kirby's weight is ~66, and Shield Kirby's Weight is ~110.
Thanks, that's really cool. Uncovering all the data in this game takes a lot of people and lots of work, so thanks for the work!
 

Zethoro

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Thanks, that's really cool. Uncovering all the data in this game takes a lot of people and lots of work, so thanks for the work!
No problem, I'm glad to contribute to the Kirby boards.
A little unrelated, but I'm pretty sure you posted that whole comprehensive thing about Stone's uses twice in the same post.
EDIT: Oh, by the way, what are your thoughts on the Corner Pivot Slide? Since Kirby can do it without the corner and the slide is fairly long (longer than his Perfect Pivot, I believe), I've been mixing it in and it seems fairly useful for mindgames and starting a combo chain with sliding Dtilt or UTilt. In particular, it seems like a pretty good way to get in Inhale with sliding Sour Utilt to Inhale, or DTilt to Grab to BThrow to BAir on heavier characters.
 
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t!MmY

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Yeah, it looked like my response got duplicated. I don't think pointing it out is unrelated because it directly relates to posts within this topic. XD

My edit has fixed it though, so thanks for letting me know.

Oh, by the way, what are your thoughts on the Corner Pivot Slide?
My thoughts are:
I haven't really had the time to fully explore it.

I talked to someone about it yesterday and it sounds like it's the exact same technique (by a different name) that I'm familiar with in Brawl. If it is, then it's very useful for Kirby - perhaps even more now that mobility is less trip-ridden and 'skidding' is becoming more of a thing.

On a Meta Knight-related note:
I'm sad to see that Meta Knight's D-tilt, F-tilt, and D-smash did not slide with the above technique like they used to in Brawl. His U-tilt still slides... which indicates to me that the developers probably knew about this technique and were 'balancing' it by allowing some moves to slide and preventing others from sliding.
 

Zethoro

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Yeah, it looked like my response got duplicated. I don't think pointing it out is unrelated because it directly relates to posts within this topic. XD

My edit has fixed it though, so thanks for letting me know.


My thoughts are:
I haven't really had the time to fully explore it.

I talked to someone about it yesterday and it sounds like it's the exact same technique (by a different name) that I'm familiar with in Brawl. If it is, then it's very useful for Kirby - perhaps even more now that mobility is less trip-ridden and 'skidding' is becoming more of a thing.

On a Meta Knight-related note:
I'm sad to see that Meta Knight's D-tilt, F-tilt, and D-smash did not slide with the above technique like they used to in Brawl. His U-tilt still slides... which indicates to me that the developers probably knew about this technique and were 'balancing' it by allowing some moves to slide and preventing others from sliding.
That would explain why everything except for Kirby's jab get the slide, but it doesn't explain why Diddy gets it and his DTilt slides. If it's really a returning tech from Brawl like you say, then you're probably right. I don't know how they wouldn't know.
 

Asdioh

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Kirbys jab does get the slide though? I've practiced it myself a bit, when the original "sliding dsmash" thread came out, and jab/dtilt were the most useful parts.

And thanks for the monado weights, I tried doing that myself but got annoyed. I already knew smash was "lighter than jigglypuff" and shield was "still light enough to die easily, especially since you're the slowest in the game" so I just left it at that lol.
jump/speed/buster kirbys are the best!
 

Zethoro

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Kirbys jab does get the slide though? I've practiced it myself a bit, when the original "sliding dsmash" thread came out, and jab/dtilt were the most useful parts.

And thanks for the monado weights, I tried doing that myself but got annoyed. I already knew smash was "lighter than jigglypuff" and shield was "still light enough to die easily, especially since you're the slowest in the game" so I just left it at that lol.
jump/speed/buster kirbys are the best!
Oh, really? My bad. XD In that case this is even better for Kirby.
But yeah, for Monado you're either getting it for Speed, absurd recovery, or Buster UpTilts forever.
I'm actually really interested in the team dynamics Shulk and Kirby have. They complement each other very well.
 

t!MmY

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In preparation for the new update that's in-the-works with the guide I went back and read ALL the posts in this thread up until now. I've noticed I forgot to post here about the F-throw and B-throw stuff I found out a while back. My apologies, but here it is now, better late than never.

B-throw (and F-throw) have, according to my observations, notable IASA frames (Interupable As Soon As). B-throw especially has quick IASA after the opponent is launched. This is what allows for the B-throw to B-air combo.

Since the IASA can interrupt the animation early, Kirby does not rise as high up in the air and can immediately act. There isn't much as far as attacks go that combo out of B-throw and F-throw, but the utility for the IASA is still there. I've been using the IASA to immediately start a D-air and then Fast-Fall into a Hup Cancel.

You heard that right: you can Hup Cancel the B-throw (and F-throw)! The benefit is minor, but it is still there. It is much akin to Air Dodging out of Kirby's Throws in Melee to get to the ground faster - small, but important to implement into your gameplay.

Anyway, an update to the guide is in the works. Stay tuned!
 

t!MmY

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A new version of Kirby's Epic Guide is now available!

I reworked the guide to be "easy-to-browse" by making headers for each section. Sections are collapsed down so you can view the part you want to look at without having to wade through too much all at once. Also, I made visuals in the theme of Kirby's Epic Yarn.

I spent the last 3 days editing (graphic editing as well as textual editing), and it looks really nice. Yet there is still plenty I would like to add. I really need a break though, so this will have to be saved for later updates.

Check out the new version in this thread's original post. Enjoy!
 
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Asdioh

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Nice! For the sake of perfectionism: you repeated the word "specific" near the beginning, near the end you called Dark Pit "Dark Link," and lastly you wrote "guarenteed." :p

It definitely looks nicer, I'm wondering what else you have to add? I can try to help if you want, though I dunno what I could do.

edit: also it says Kirby's grab hits on 7-8, but here http://pastebin.com/NJ4Q5PzU it says frame 6 (tied for fastest in the game, along with a whole bunch of other characters.) Am I reading it wrong or what?
I didn't look over the rest of the frame data in this thread, but this is a handy link to include.
 
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t!MmY

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to go check on all that.

Edit:
Okay, I fixed up the things you pointed out, thanks! Hours and hours of guide work can make cause for all kinds of mistakes.
It definitely looks nicer, I'm wondering what else you have to add? I can try to help if you want, though I dunno what I could do.
There are a number of things for me to add. For instance, I have a lot of pictures edited that need to be uploaded and then added into the guide. One place I could use help would be to get high-quality, nicely edited pictures of all of Kirby's moves. Scratch that, just get me a capture device and I'll do all the editing myself (yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment).

As far as content goes, there's always something more to add. XD
 
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Asdioh

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@ t!MmY t!MmY I've been testing stuff out, framedata wise. Using this as a reference, I used 1/4 speed "Press L to Advance" mode in Training, and saw which moves outsped/clashed with some of Kirby's specials. I believe these are pretty accurate, at least within a frame. I'll list what moves I used to test, and the results.

Inhale: Roughly 17 frames (trades with Dedede's frame 17 Upsmash, loses to Greninja's frame 16 Dsmash)
Upper Cutter: Roughly 6 frames (lost to Donkey Kong's frame 5 Jab, beats Lucario and Lucina's frame 6 Jabs)
Hammer Flip: somewhere between 27-30, I can't find anything to test in that range.
Hammer Bash: Roughly 24 (beats Ike's frame 25 Upsmash, trades with Meta Knight's frame 24 Fsmash)
Stone: Roughly 10-11 (loses to Kirby's frame 10 Dsmash, beats Sheik's frame 11 Dsmash)

Also Reserved assures me that Jumping Inhale and Ice Breath have the same startup as Inhale :p
 

Doinktonberry

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One thing that I'm curious is the number of projectiles that Kirby can duck under. Is there a particular list anybody can direct me to? I know fox and falco's lasers can be avoided and I think shieks needles and the uncharged paralyzer can as well but I want to make sure.
 

Unknownkid

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One thing that I'm curious is the number of projectiles that Kirby can duck under. Is there a particular list anybody can direct me to? I know fox and falco's lasers can be avoided and I think shieks needles and the uncharged paralyzer can as well but I want to make sure.
@lightdasher was kind of enough to make a list of moves Kirby can duck under. Here is the link.
http://pastebin.com/twJiKLVL
 

t!MmY

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Kirby's Epic Guide Update 1.2.1

Coinciding with the 1.0.2 update patch in Japan, I have updated the Kirby Guide. This wasn't really intentional, just coincidental.

Kirby's Epic Guide has been updated with moveset pictures for visual reference. Additionally, I included pictures of Kirby wearing his various Hats.

The update I did to the guide may look 'minor', but I assure you it took hours to finish (I don't know how long, but I had to break it down over a course of many days). What you can glance at and mentally take in almost instantly can still take a long time to construct - visual art is funny like that.

At any rate, enjoy! :)
 
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DarkBlueSpark

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Really great guide, also really liked the the one you made for Brawl.

I've mained Kirby since I started playing Smash 7 or so years ago, but I'm having trouble sticking with him for this iteration. I'm not sure why, I just feel like I have a lot of trouble playing against the rest of the cast.
 

t!MmY

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Really great guide, also really liked the the one you made for Brawl.

I've mained Kirby since I started playing Smash 7 or so years ago, but I'm having trouble sticking with him for this iteration. I'm not sure why, I just feel like I have a lot of trouble playing against the rest of the cast.
I think all Kirby players feel the same way at times. There are some match-ups that are tolerable, but there are some that can be quite a challenge.
 

DarkBlueSpark

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I think all Kirby players feel the same way at times. There are some match-ups that are tolerable, but there are some that can be quite a challenge.
I'm going to try to stick with Kirby for now, but I'll probably pick up a secondary to cover his bad matchups, though to me that seems to be practically well, everyone, though I may just be exaggerating :p I did read the matchup thread and it seems like Kirby has a near even matchup to every character you pit him against so far?

I don't use Kirby's Stone or Hammer Flip much, though I think Hammer Flip may be useful? I just don't like slow moves as much, I mostly just grab+pummel+throw with Kirby with aerials as followups. Don't really use his normal attacks or specials much in general.
 
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t!MmY

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I did read the matchup thread and it seems like Kirby has a near even matchup to every character you pit him against so far?

...Don't really use his normal attacks or specials much in general.
Well, to me 40:60 isn't really a near-even match-up (it especially feels different saying 40:60 in SSB4 right now than it did in Brawl). It might be the pacing in the game, considering so many matches are 2-stocks now-a-days.

Kirby's Specials are situational and not using them much in general is to be expected. Grabbing still seems to be a decent option at this point in the meta, even with a good read, since Kirby's advancing options are limited. His 'normals' are still pretty good, it's just that with the short range it seems like he doesn't get as many opportunities to use them as he should. I know I've been tippered by a Marth just throwing out a F-smash because I poked with D-tilt, which illustrates a fundamental obstacle for Kirby's game.
 

DarkBlueSpark

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Well, to me 40:60 isn't really a near-even match-up (it especially feels different saying 40:60 in SSB4 right now than it did in Brawl). It might be the pacing in the game, considering so many matches are 2-stocks now-a-days.

Kirby's Specials are situational and not using them much in general is to be expected. Grabbing still seems to be a decent option at this point in the meta, even with a good read, since Kirby's advancing options are limited. His 'normals' are still pretty good, it's just that with the short range it seems like he doesn't get as many opportunities to use them as he should. I know I've been tippered by a Marth just throwing out a F-smash because I poked with D-tilt, which illustrates a fundamental obstacle for Kirby's game.
So Kirby's main flaw is being outranged by most of the cast? That seems to be my issue at least.
Why do you feel like 40:60 means Kirby is at a distinct disadvantage in this game?
 
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t!MmY

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I've done a minor update to the guide.
@kyoskue pointed out to me that the picture to the Mega Man Hat depicted Sheik instead. I fixed that, and, while I was at it, did some remastering of the other photos as well so that they visually look better.

Why do you feel like 40:60 means Kirby is at a distinct disadvantage in this game?
From Brawl when someone said 40:60, that was a pretty bad match-up. In the SSB4 match-up thread 40:60 is listed as a 'slight disadvantage' which doesn't sound nearly as skewed as I'm used to it sounding. That's about it.
 

Aunt Jemima

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Captain Falcon moved and/or deleted himself from existence. May wanna fix that, lol.
 
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Nilloce

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Hello all, I'm a newcomer to the competitive scene but I hope I can join the Kirby club. I have been reading up on many of the Kirby discussions that many of you participate in. I really want to thank you all for the helpful information so that I may become the best Kirby player I can. I plan to contribute to further discussions on the numerous Kirby threads in the future. Again thank you for the time and effort you put into these threads, it really makes a difference.
 

Ansou

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Hello all, I'm a newcomer to the competitive scene but I hope I can join the Kirby club. I have been reading up on many of the Kirby discussions that many of you participate in. I really want to thank you all for the helpful information so that I may become the best Kirby player I can. I plan to contribute to further discussions on the numerous Kirby threads in the future. Again thank you for the time and effort you put into these threads, it really makes a difference.
Welcome to the Kirby boards! I hope that you learn a lot here and feel like a part of the community!
 

t!MmY

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Hello all, I'm a newcomer to the competitive scene but I hope I can join the Kirby club.
Hi and welcome. You'll find the Kirby boards a friendly place, so if you have any questions feel free to post them. (I'd suggest the Q&A thread).
 

Zenip19

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D-tilt (Trip)
→ Grab
→ F-air
→ F-smash
→ Dash Attack​
If you can't tech after a trip, which is why these combos work (i'm assuming) couldn't you easily d-tilt (with a trip) into an uncharged hammer? Anyways, if it is a real combo, It can't kill, because by the time an uncharged hammer would kill a character, the D-tilt knocks the character too far.

Edit: Found out you can tech out of trip, so yeah the D-tilt to hammer is useless
 
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