Guide [SSB4] Kirby's Epic Guide (ver. 2.1)

[Ansou]

Nooo I really love playing Kirby with custom moves... :<

EDIT: Is it due to balance reasons or just the fact that tournament arrangers have to unlock every single custom move?

 

[Asdioh]

It seems that Custom Moves are going 2b band.

don't be too pessimistic. Everything will be ok :3

I waw watching sky's invitational last night. The players there were amazing. That plus the tourney I went to... I believe these players have mastered their characters at a higher level than me or any kirby I've seen has. We have some training to do. Kirby's not as fast or flashy as most of those characters were, but we can make him better, he's very capable of winning.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

don't be too pessimistic. Everything will be ok :3

I waw watching sky's invitational last night. The players there were amazing. That plus the tourney I went to... I believe these players have mastered their characters at a higher level than me or any kirby I've seen has. We have some training to do. Kirby's not as fast or flashy as most of those characters were, but we can make him better, he's very capable of winning.

Go play Anther. He mains Pikachu, and he plays so well with him.

 

[Asdioh]

I know I've lost to him a few times in person in brawl lol. But I mean we really need to master kirby, know exactly what to do for maximum pressure when they're on the ledge, optimal punishes, optimal combo pressure, most likely to succeed edgeguarding, etc. I'm pretty pumped after watching that tourney, if these guys had chosen to master kirby we'd see some crazy things, but they didn't so it's up to us.

First step for me is to master gamecube controller, making sure there are zero input errors and everything goes exactly as I intend etc

 

[Ansou]

First step for me is to master gamecube controller, making sure there are zero input errors and everything goes exactly as I intend etc

Speaking of controllers, would you say that GameCube controllers are better than Wii U Pro controllers? If so, why?

 

[Asdioh]

Yes because of tradition and the fact that I spent money on the adapter

 

[Ansou]

Yes because of tradition and the fact that I spent money on the adapter

If that's all there is to it, I will probably use the Pro controller if I find it comfortable.

 

[Rochette]

The most important is not the controller but the settings. It's impressive how differently you could play with the same controller.
But playing with an old gamecube controller is just a tradition. Maybe one of the most followed in video games history.
For some people like me it's an important part of our childhood.

 

[Asdioh]

Also wireless is supposedly more input delay than wired, I haven't tested enough to notice. The octagon grooves on gcc also help with accuracy

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I've been paying with @ Aunt Jemima . I think I'm slowly getting better. Maybe I'll catch up to you guys some day (when pigs fly. I can learn, forever, but I lack the reflexes.) I'm saying I'd like to help but I don't know how I can contribute anything useful. I'm not at the same level as you guys.

 

[Unknownkid]

Mastering the pink ball puff is not a straight forward task, my friend. Especially, when our character is based on Adaptability rather than some flowchart where you can throw bananas, D-throw and Up Air a lot. As Reserved stated, Kirby became defensive character who still has an offensive moveset. We need to not only understand our Kirby's potential but also our match up and what they can/cannot do. I'm not saying the task is impossible but just tedious. Gladly, everytime I come here I learn something new and improve my playstyle. So in the end, it will all be worth it. That is the best part.

Anyways, MaximTomato post about Final Cutter Spike is a good edgeguard option. Characters with good recovery who cannot be gimp easily like Villager, Sonic, etc. maybe better sent upward with Stone than down with D-air. Go for a stage spike with B-air/F-air if the stage has a slant. Watching Will's DK in KTAR IX stream makes want to know what trumping options we have.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

@ MaximTomato

I've been using your Final Cutter Spike that you talked about recently. I've managed to catch edgeguarding opponents quite often by Final Cuttering them down, grabbing onto the ledge, then snapping on as they die. It's a great post, and an amazing contribution. I may add a section to the "General Thread" that has suggestions from other Kirby mains, and add it there.

 

[MaximTomato]

@ Aunt Jemima
Thanks I'm glad that it helps! If anything it is a nice extra option that Kirby has, and it's cool that your getting them often
I'm trying to figure out more ways to do this so that it is less situational.

@ Unknownkid
I agree, it's easier or just outright better to take care of some characters a certain way. I am also curious about what our trumping options are too. Asdioh covered it in his tips video, showing that we can use back-air, which works well. Currently I'm trying to see if I could get a kill with a reverse final cutter after trumping the edge.

 

[Asdioh]

Here I made this using NL's trump video. http://i.imgur.com/KUDLKTr.png
I might organize it by distance, unless someone else is kind enough to do so.

 

[Unknownkid]

Nice find, Asdioh. Good Lord! Look at how far Sheik goes...!

Looks like we should be able to hit these characters with B-air:
Peach (maybe), Yoshi, Bowser, Rosy, Diddy, DK, Zelda, Samus, Robin, DDD, Lucario (maybe), ROB, Megaman and PacMan.

 

[t!MmY]

Here I made this using NL's trump video. http://i.imgur.com/KUDLKTr.png
I might organize it by distance, unless someone else is kind enough to do so.

Thanks for the visual, this is the kind of info I feel always helps.

One tip though:
When communicating visual data try to keep it as basic and non-distracting as possible. I.E. in your shots the Edge Hogger (Trumper?) should be the same character in every shot and all characters should have their default color/costume scheme. This will help highlight the info you're communicating while making it easiest for most people to understand quickly.

 

[Asdioh]

Thanks for the visual, this is the kind of info I feel always helps.

One tip though:
When communicating visual data try to keep it as basic and non-distracting as possible. I.E. in your shots the Edge Hogger (Trumper?) should be the same character in every shot and all characters should have their default color/costume scheme. This will help highlight the info you're communicating while making it easiest for most people to understand quickly.

It wasn't my video but yes, characters using their non-default colors really irked me.

 

[t!MmY]

It wasn't my video but yes, characters using their non-default colors really irked me.

Oh I get it now. I guess we have to work with what we've got for now. Still, I like to give props for the work done.

 

[Robin1613]

how do you guys feel about kirby's jab in this game?

its usually what i go for when punishing since in the previous smash games it had little to no use

 

[north-note]

how do you guys feel about kirby's jab in this game?

its usually what i go for when punishing since in the previous smash games it had little to no use

it's a really useful punisher, you can give at least 10% damage to your opponent and sent them back to prevent counter. it can also be used to start air combo and juggling

 

[Asdioh]

I have mixed feelings about it. For the most part it's great. It comes out on frame 4 (if that frame data is to be believed) which I think is on the slower/average side. I have a strong feeling Sheik's is much faster and harder to DI out of. I sometimes have people interrupt my jab combo before it gets to the vulcan jab section by jabbing me after the 1-2 punch part, that's annoying. People can DI out of it (I know I DI out of jabs in Kirby dittos all the time, it's one of the easier jabs)
However, it's his fastest punishment option, and it has nice damage. I usually see like 12% damage from it, and the best part is that the finisher has very good range and sends people FAR even at low percents, so it's fantastic for setting up edgeguards.
I also find "double jab canceling" (see Fox boards if you don't know what that is) somewhat useful with Kirby as an occasional mixup. It's probably not guaranteed by frame data, but if used unpredictably, you can jabjab, pause, jabjab, pause, jabjab, dtilt/grab/whatever.

tl;dr it's not perfect but it's really good, especially compared to other games.

 

[WootSnorlax]

how do you guys feel about kirby's jab in this game?

its usually what i go for when punishing since in the previous smash games it had little to no use

Jabs are pretty good at catching rolls. If you notice a person is rolling a lot you could just hold A and they'll eventually run into a jab. Needless to say a good player won't be rolling too much and if they do I don't think it's the best punish option Kirby has. I feel like jab is really good at catching people off guard when they expect to do an attack just because of how fast it comes out. As Asdioh said you could mix it up with the jab canceling, but be careful because it doesn't have too much range.

That being said, generally I feel like getting an aerial attack is a better way of punishing if you feel confident about landing it. Like maybe a bair or dair. That way it's easier to follow up and chase off stage. Hell even a smash attack would be good too depending on the move you're punishing. I guess jab is just a really safe punishment but it won't net you any kills, just some percentage.

 

[Ansou]

That being said, generally I feel like getting an aerial attack is a better way of punishing if you feel confident about landing it. Like maybe a bair or dair. That way it's easier to follow up and chase off stage. Hell even a smash attack would be good too depending on the move you're punishing. I guess jab is just a really safe punishment but it won't net you any kills, just some percentage.

A lot of times I find myself using f-tilt as a punish as it comes out fast and has pretty good range. Although, if you need a really quick punish or if you want to catch rolls or spot dodges, I guess jab is a good option.

 

[Asdioh]

ok I went through every character and thought about which moves could hit Kirby after he used Copy, before his shield could come up, and tested them with my brother.

I present to you, The Official-ish List of Stuff that can Hit Kirby out of Copy!


G&W: dair
Sheik: dair
Ganondorf: downb (ouch)
ZSS: dair
Robin: upb
Metaknight: dair (just like in Brawl, it comes out insanely fast)
Fox: downb (that 2% damage punish!)
Lucario: dair
Greninja: dair
ROB: maybe dair (I got it to work one time, and had trouble getting it to work after that, it usually ended up powershielded)
Captain Falcon: downb
Sonic: dair
Everybody: thrown items (bombs, turnips, bananas, gyros, etc.)

Notes: I did not test any customs, feel free to test any you think might be relevant. There were a few moves I tested that I expected to work, but were too slow, such as Bowser Dair/DownB, Diddy UpB, and Pacman's Fire Hydrant. Yoshi DownB gets powershielded every time. I did not test Wario's fully charged Fart, I don't think it works but who knows.
I don't know what the deal is, but it's super hard to get the Dairs to come out in this game. I'm pretty sure in Brawl you could just mash down+A, or down on C-stick, but in this game it VERY OFTEN comes out as a Nair if you don't time it just right. It made it really frustrating to test, but it's good news for us because it means it's hard for people to consistently get Dairs out of Copy, hopefully. I'd prefer if they would just patch it so the move actually has hitstun :/
Most dangerous things are probably Ganondorf/Captain Falcon DownBs, as those moves can KO at higher percents, and it's consistent to do Down+B input, unlike Down+A, but you won't usually be Copying them anyway, so whatever.

 

[t!MmY]

You'd think with all the changes and fixes they made to SSB4 with the 1.0.4 patch that someone would have thought to fix the problem with Copy. It really feels like Kirby gets ignored too much in this regard... I mean, it's been a problem ever since Brawl.

 

[WootSnorlax]

You'd think with all the changes and fixes they made to SSB4 with the 1.0.4 patch that someone would have thought to fix the problem with Copy. It really feels like Kirby gets ignored too much in this regard... I mean, it's been a problem ever since Brawl.

Too afraid to bring back the monster from 64

 

[gameplayzero]

interesting thing I found out just now. Villagers forward smash (the bowling ball) has some sort of weird glitch. If you swallow villager and use his pocket a few inches in front of him you can still pocket his bowling ball. I haven't exactly tested this yet, but I wasn't even remotely close to the villager and I was able to pocket his bowling ball. Not very useful tech since any smart villager won't forward smash when you aren't close, but its something at least.

 

[Unknownkid]

interesting thing I found out just now. Villagers forward smash (the bowling ball) has some sort of weird glitch. If you swallow villager and use his pocket a few inches in front of him you can still pocket his bowling ball. I haven't exactly tested this yet, but I wasn't even remotely close to the villager and I was able to pocket his bowling ball. Not very useful tech since any smart villager won't forward smash when you aren't close, but its something at least.

It isn't a glitch. It is intentional. The Bowling Ball is a projectile so you can pocket/reflect it.

 

[gameplayzero]

It isn't a glitch. It is intentional. The Bowling Ball is a projectile so you can pocket/reflect.

but you are only supposed to pocket projectiles that are in front of you so you have the ability to pocket it. I wasn't even close to him, yet I still grabbed the bowling ball.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

but you are only supposed to pocket projectiles that are in front of you so you have the ability to pocket it. I wasn't even close to him, yet I still grabbed the bowling ball.

That's not a glitch, it's just the range on the move.

 

[gameplayzero]

That's not a glitch, it's just the range on the move.

if you guys are saying that a villager at the edge of a stage can normally pocket a projectile from the center of the stage then I guess it isn't. I should have been more clear my bad. I should have recorded it, but I didn't. Will test it out now.


Edit: I can't emulate it in practice mode so forget it. It was a one time deal.

 

[Unknownkid]

Pocket range is pretty ridiculous. I actually recorded a Pocket Tree battle with a fellow Villager in FG. Sadly, it was in the old version of Smash 4 so I cannot upload it.

 

[gameplayzero]

if you guys are saying that a villager at the edge of a stage can normally pocket a projectile from the center of the stage that goes downward then I guess it isn't.

Pocket range is pretty ridiculous. I actually recorded a Pocket Tree battle with a fellow Villager in FG. Sadly, it was in the old version of Smash 4 so I cannot upload it.

I never realized how much range it had to begin with until now. Its really deceptive.

 

[Asdioh]

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...traps-an-intro-to-high-level-concepts.380200/

Good thread to read if you want to improve mentally as a player.

What's interesting to me about the thread is that the 'neutral game' is probably the most important part of the game, I already knew that. People always say Kirby is 'really bad' in neutral, I've heard that many times. The interesting part is that Kirby can straight up duck a lot of the examples given for strong traps. Stuff like ZSS and Robin's projectiles. I know Kirby can't duck everything, but man it gives him a huge advantage in a lot of situations.
Also, I feel that even if Kirby's not great in neutral, he's exceptional both in Advantage and Disadvantage. Followup combos, landing traps, and strong edgeguarding in Advantage. 5 jumps with multiple ways to land back on the ground in Disadvantage.

 

[lurker88]

any advanced techs for kirby?

 

[ryuu seika]

Back on the subject of jabs, I find that if your opponent is recovering from below and doesn't grab the ledge just right, a single hit of jab seems to send them plummeting while, for whatever reason, two or more hits will keep them in the air long enough to recover again or simply find a way to the ledge. IMO this could have edgeguard potential, if only as a weird mix up.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Final Cutter's Meteor is hilarious in For Glory. As most people you go against there are dumb, I just spend the match baiting them off stage into Final Cutter.

 

[Rochette]

I have some trouble against Rosalina in FG. Usually I get rid of Luma and that's fine. But when they are together I feel outclassed...

Ducking is just vital. But it's a long way to master kirby. And we need some time... My best sparing partner is a Pikachu amiibo with hours and hours against the cast. Amiibo learn really well and adapt. You have to do your best and adapt too. Really great tool.

 

[DblCrest]

How does Kirby feel in the WII U version compared to 3DS? :o

...and on the note of advance tech . I'd say stealing the ledge from someone is pretty handy for Kirby. I currently don't have any human players to test it out against .

I'm still looking for the best way to do it. Should you dodge and catch the ledge just as they grab it and then use a ledge attack as they return? Or let go of the ledge and try to harass them?

 

[Rochette]

I have a little false follow-up which works at 0%, it needs some practice but i like it.

(backthrow) ++ (dair fastfall) + (fsmash) = 23 %