Guide [SSB4] Kirby's Epic Guide (ver. 2.1)

[Asdioh]

Update, DeDeDe moved up twice (turns out you CAN move with someone in your mouth, and at Kirbys speed instead of DeDeDes) Lucario moved down, can't even kill Lucario at 150 fully charged, Wario, Bowser, Lucina, Metaknight and Jigglypuff moved up.

I think you might have the wrong mindset for this. Just because Aura Sphere can't kill (even though it can kill quite well, especially offstage) it's still a projectile, something Kirby is sorely lacking. It's easily a top tier ability.
Also Jigglypuff's Rollout is total garbodor, you're gonna have to explain to me how that ability is worth anything.

 

[lightdasher]

I think you might have the wrong mindset for this. Just because Aura Sphere can't kill (even though it can kill quite well, especially offstage) it's still a projectile, something Kirby is sorely lacking. It's easily a top tier ability.
Also Jigglypuff's Rollout is total garbodor, you're gonna have to explain to me how that ability is worth anything.

Hrm, actually I can't remember why I moved Jiggly up.

And Lucarios ability is too slow to use against a character like Lucario, plus after copying Lucario he gets a Free Dair on you, think I should move them back?

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

What do you mean he gets free d-air on you? It's not like his D-air stalls him in the air anymore. Lucario's ability is great to have period, it gives Kirby a spacing tool. CHance are a foe will want to try to DL away from Kirby after an inhale to avoild an up air. or up tilt . I agree with the others. I think you have the wrong mindset for these analysis.

 

[Obake]

I've been trying dair to rock and it seems to work on many characters. Although pretty risky, it's worth mentioning.

 

[Asdioh]

Ah, that reminds me I wanted to test what characters can hit Kirby for free after he uses Copy. That was a thing in Brawl and it's still in this game -_-
Any character that had a move that stopped their momentum, or made them fall downwards, could hit Kirby after Copy, because there was no hitstun. So he could be hit by Fox's reflector, Ganondorf/Falcon down B kicks, Toon Link/Sheik/Zero Suit downairs, etc.
I know Greninja can Dair you after Copy, but I haven't tested much else really. A lot of people on For Glory don't know about it. Even though it's a crappy aspect of Kirby, it can lead to interesting things because most of the downward momentum moves are highly punishable, so it becomes a mindgame of "Do I Dair Kirby after Copy, or do I not because if he uses Starshot, I'll Dair the stage and he can punish that?"

 

[lightdasher]

What do you mean he gets free d-air on you? It's not like his D-air stalls him in the air anymore. Lucario's ability is great to have period, it gives Kirby a spacing tool. CHance are a foe will want to try to DL away from Kirby after an inhale to avoild an up air. or up tilt . I agree with the others. I think you have the wrong mindset for these analysis.

Well, swapping Jiggly and Lucario around is simple enough.

Spoiler

 

[kirby_queen]

Still not too convinced that some of the changes have been for the better but will still keep on using Kirby of course. He's been my main since 64.

 

[FreeGamer]

His specials are kinda trash. Mediocre throws and terrible movement speed don't help either. >_>

 

[Asdioh]

Does the entire move have super armor or only fully charged? If it's only fully charged then it doesn't seem worth it.

I'll test now and edit this post when I'm done.

EDIT: No super armor from what I can tell, both uncharged and fully charged.

Kirby still has the same super armor Donkey Kong has. It's just not at the start of the punch, it's a little awkward to time. And yeah it's probably only the fully charged one, it's been like that in every game.

One thing I've noticed happening a lot is Inhale doesn't land when it looks like it should, when the opponent and I both have upward momentum?
Shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M80...h5uKgl7ei1GRdCw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6 (about 9 seconds)
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...v=BQcJmfMWk8Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=141 (2:25)
http://i.imgur.com/EikUFOQ.jpg

Anyone else seen similar things happening?

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Another scary thing about little mac is all his smashes seem to have super armor, not only that they come out extremely fast. I've been fighting against little mac from this board. I'm finding it even more difficult to do much of anything against him. All his attacks seem to have priority over Kirby'(?) and they come out extremely fast and strong. He seems really difficult to pursue as well. I really think people are underestimating little mac because he doesn't have an air game. He controls the ground really well, and he seems fast enough that it's hard to position Kirby in a good position too?

 

[Sugawolf]

Little Macs ground game is ridiculous, but it seems to be susceptible to grabs. At higher percents you can definitely use them to keep mac in the air, and as soon as you get him offstage the stock is pretty much yours if you gimp him effectively. Now the problem of course, is racking up damage on a character that you basically can't approach and whose ground moves pretty much beat out all of yours.


I seriously can't wait till this game matures a bit more and the match up discussions start rolling.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Kirby still has the same super armor Donkey Kong has. It's just not at the start of the punch, it's a little awkward to time. And yeah it's probably only the fully charged one, it's been like that in every game.

One thing I've noticed happening a lot is Inhale doesn't land when it looks like it should, when the opponent and I both have upward momentum?
Shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M80...h5uKgl7ei1GRdCw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6 (about 9 seconds)
and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...v=BQcJmfMWk8Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=141 (2:25)
http://i.imgur.com/EikUFOQ.jpg

Anyone else seen similar things happening?

I've had it happen pretty often, have lost out on what could have stopped an enemy attack and instead got nailed.

 

[MikeKirby]

I was hitting the sandbag in the practice room and one time I faired it and it went SUPER high. Could that be it?

Kirby's f-air (2) can spike if you land cancel it before the last hit. It's kind of weird but cool! That's why the sandbag goes vertically high. It's gimmicky but you can 0-death people if you grab them near a ledge.

---------------------------------------

Has anyone tested out Kirby's Inhale Break mechanics and how they could work with potential Kirbycides/footstools? .-.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Kirby's f-air (2) can spike if you land cancel it before the last hit. It's kind of weird but cool! That's why the sandbag goes vertically high. It's gimmicky but you can 0-death people if you grab them near a ledge.

---------------------------------------

Has anyone tested out Kirby's Inhale Break mechanics and how they could work with potential Kirbycides/footstools? .-.

Ugh, there's been so many times where I've been footstooled while Kirbyciding...

EDIT:

Okay, I've done this so much times today, it's great. After watching Asdioh's video and reading t!mMy's guide on Kirby's F-Throw to F-Air combos at low percents, I decided to see what options Kirby had if he dragged an opponent down with him off the cliff. After a little testing in For Glory, I found out that on characters that you can F-Throw to F-Air, if you do it right near the edge of a stage, you can drag them down and follow up with a couple more F-Airs, eventually to the point where they can't recover.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Another scary thing about little mac is all his smashes seem to have super armor, not only that they come out extremely fast. I've been fighting against little mac from this board. I'm finding it even more difficult to do much of anything against him. All his attacks seem to have priority over Kirby'(?) and they come out extremely fast and strong. He seems really difficult to pursue as well. I really think people are underestimating little mac because he doesn't have an air game. He controls the ground really well, and he seems fast enough that it's hard to position Kirby in a good position too?

Bait with jumps, to bait out a up-smash. FF, dair, u-tilt, profit.

Or just play all little macs like you should, wait by the ledge. kirbycide or shieldgrab a dash attack, and b-throw and proceed to gimp.

No little mac is a problem for me, it astounds me how alot of people on SB dont know how to deal with little mac.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Needs more testing, but I think that, after ledge trumping somebody, a reversed Inhale may be able to grab them so you can Kirbycide into a footstool.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Bait with jumps, to bait out a up-smash. FF, dair, u-tilt, profit.

Or just play all little macs like you should, wait by the ledge. kirbycide or shieldgrab a dash attack, and b-throw and proceed to gimp.

No little mac is a problem for me, it astounds me how alot of people on SB dont know how to deal with little mac.

A smart little mac isn't going to approach you near the edge, they're going try to stay near the middle of the stage so they can maintain control of it. Just because things like that can be exploited doesn't mean he isn't a rough match up. Competent macs are going to be a lot harder to gimp.

I'd also like to state that I do tend to beat little macs, but that doesn't mean they don't give me grief.

 

[Sugawolf]

I'd like to point out that you can inhale a little mac out of a dash attack if he doesn't start it early enough. Granted if your prediction game isn't on point and you miss, you can bet that you're gonna get your little pink face punched in.

Still, you can inhale him out of the first frames of the animation and it is useful as hell to spit him out over the ledge. Little macs are so fast that they often run into a baited inhale without even starting the dash attack.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Ooh, while I was playing in FG, I found out that Kirby can Sling Spike.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Can do what?

 

[Unknownkid]

Sling Spike - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdyW9YdQ_U GrnFzzTgr. I believe you have to fast fall on the second hit. Because the third hit send them out instead of down.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Okay, discovered some new tricks while playing with a Captain Falcon player. Despite being For Glory, he knew what I was doing, and somehow knew what I wanted to tested. He was a great dude, and helped me test a few things.

I'll get the replays uploaded and then share them.

 

[ryuu seika]

Not sure if this is going to be useful or not but this thread has it that air dodges can be cancelled into other actions after only 5 frames of ending lag to avoid the landing lag of the air dodge.

If the startup cancelled landing lag of Kirby's aerials is the same as the post-move landing lag then Uair is his best option at 10 frames (less than half of the dodge landing lag) but there's a good chance it won't be. Kirby, however, has a somewhat more interesting trait in this regard though. He has specials that transition smoothly from ground to air, specifically Hammer Flip and Inhale.

Would cancelling a jump into an air dodge to avoid hits and punish with either of the above specials be viable? I would expect the Flip to need a laggy move to respond to but it could be pretty sweet to land in this manner if possible.

As for the current topic, I don't really use Inhale because Jumping Inhale is just so good. It's a horizontal recovery move that doesn't prevent use of your vertical and has a tendency to beat out edgeguard attempts, it's a faster form of movement than even Kirby's dash and it's a great way to swallow opponents off the stage less expectedly.
I haven't had chance to test it thoroughly but I don't think it works quite like regular Inhale in terms of swallowciding though. Opponents seem to auto-escape after a set time, which is actually a plus because, like in Melee, they pop downwards and you upwards, putting you in a great position to offstage footstool them to death.

 

[Unknownkid]

I believe you mean Nair which has 10 frames not Uair (which is 12 Frames.)

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

they pop downwards? They always seem to pop out level with me or above me...

 

[XStarWarriorX]

A smart little mac isn't going to approach you near the edge, they're going try to stay near the middle of the stage so they can maintain control of it. Just because things like that can be exploited doesn't mean he isn't a rough match up. Competent macs are going to be a lot harder to gimp.

I'd also like to state that I do tend to beat little macs, but that doesn't mean they don't give me grief.

Then just dont approach. If they dont approach, you dont either, it may be a boring way to beat them but thats how you do it, they'll have to commit sooner or later, and most do, then you can proceed to gimp, but to do this, you'll have to get them at enough damage so that Jolt doesnt help them recover. (though he can be hit out of it at the beginning of the animation...)

I know he's tough, but NOT as tough as it seems, at least in my opinion, havent lost to a mac yet, and I've fought alot, and some good ones. Since alot of people in FG and even around the boards mains him.

they pop downwards? They always seem to pop out level with me or above me...

Be sure to get the first 2 hits of Fair, and FF it. they should get spiked, its a situational move though, i'd say dair footstool is a better option, but you could use this to mix it up at times.

 

[ryuu seika]

I believe you mean Nair which has 10 frames not Uair (which is 12 Frames.)

Yes, I do, thankyou.

they pop downwards? They always seem to pop out level with me or above me...

That's interesting because I always seem to go towards the stage and slightly up, with them going away and a tad down. It's not a big height difference by any means but it's still enough to give you the edge in terms of following up. Are you using regular Inhale because I'm specifically talking about the 3rd version, the difference might be that.

Be sure to get the first 2 hits of Fair, and FF it. they should get spiked, its a situational move though, i'd say dair footstool is a better option, but you could use this to mix it up at times.

Fastfalling an Fair after they escape off stage seems seriously risky. Oftentimes a single slipup would put you past the blast line.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

.

Yes, I do, thankyou.


That's interesting because I always seem to go towards the stage and slightly up, with them going away and a tad down. It's not a big height difference by any means but it's still enough to give you the edge in terms of following up. Are you using regular Inhale because I'm specifically talking about the 3rd version, the difference might be that.



Fastfalling an Fair after they escape off stage seems seriously risky. Oftentimes a single slipup would put you past the blast line.

Nah nah, I meant FF it on ledge. not off stage :o

Like i said the sling is really situational and you'd barely use it anyway.

 

[ryuu seika]

Nah nah, I meant FF it on ledge. not off stage :o
Like i said the sling is really situational and you'd barely use it anyway.

Hence why it's not really comboable with partial swallowcides and why I was confused at you bringing it up in that context.

 

[t!MmY]

Not sure if this is going to be useful or not but this thread has it that air dodges can be cancelled into other actions after only 5 frames of ending lag to avoid the landing lag of the air dodge.

Thanks for the link, that thread had another link to the Aerial Attack Lag for Kirby. I've updated the guide with it. :D

Also, a note on the F-air (2) 'spike' trajectory:
I was using this during the Best Buy demo and it was awesome. I made sure to test it out when I got the 3DS version, but it is not as good as I thought it was (might be a difference in the game version, skill level of my opponents, or possibly latency/lag from the TV or wireless controllers being used).

To sum it up: if you use F-air (2) to try to combo, it doesn't. You can definitely use it to your advantage, but you have to be able to predict what your opponent is going to do (right now a lot of my opponents are just mashing on whatever attack they currently favor).

Landing-canceled F-airs on the ledge to spike are still pretty awesome though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Sling Spike to FF D-Air is so good, haha. It's really nice for ledgestallers and edgeguarding.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Man, I love stone. It lets me recover from above without worrying about follow ups, block damage, and the transformation animation puts Kirby just High enough to avoid most characters' grab attempts and punish fairly quickly.

 

[MikeKirby]

Not sure if this is going to be useful or not but this thread has it that air dodges can be cancelled into other actions after only 5 frames of ending lag to avoid the landing lag of the air dodge.

If the startup cancelled landing lag of Kirby's aerials is the same as the post-move landing lag then Uair is his best option at 10 frames (less than half of the dodge landing lag) but there's a good chance it won't be. Kirby, however, has a somewhat more interesting trait in this regard though. He has specials that transition smoothly from ground to air, specifically Hammer Flip and Inhale.

Would cancelling a jump into an air dodge to avoid hits and punish with either of the above specials be viable? I would expect the Flip to need a laggy move to respond to but it could be pretty sweet to land in this manner if possible.

As for the current topic, I don't really use Inhale because Jumping Inhale is just so good. It's a horizontal recovery move that doesn't prevent use of your vertical and has a tendency to beat out edgeguard attempts, it's a faster form of movement than even Kirby's dash and it's a great way to swallow opponents off the stage less expectedly.
I haven't had chance to test it thoroughly but I don't think it works quite like regular Inhale in terms of swallowciding though. Opponents seem to auto-escape after a set time, which is actually a plus because, like in Melee, they pop downwards and you upwards, putting you in a great position to offstage footstool them to death.

A little tidbit, if you air dodge close to the ground, you can hup cancel your landing lag frames! It has saved me from grave punishes.

 

[Phan7om]

Yeah you can HUP cancel, jump, or bair. It can even just straight up autocancel but aerials interupt it so its prob better.

And has anyone tested if you copy someone while jumping forward if you can still be punished.

 

[ryuu seika]

HUP cancel? I'm not familiar with the term.

 

[SmileyStation]

I believe you mean Nair which has 10 frames not Uair (which is 12 Frames.)

wheres your source for the frame data???? id like to look at that.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

HUP cancel? I'm not familiar with the term.

HUP Cancel is supposed to represent how Kirby says "Hup!" when he uses his D-Air. If you FF the move before the hitbox comes out, it'll negate landing lag.

wheres your source for the frame data???? id like to look at that.

There's a frame data list with aerial frame data in the Competitive Smash boards.

---

Okay, Kirby is AMAZING at ledge play. I decided to start testing it out while playing in FG, and it works out really great. When an opponent is trying to recover, hover over the ledge using your jumps. Right when they grab onto the ledge, quickly FF onto it, so you can trump them. When this happens, you have a few options - jump back and use a B-Air on them, jump above them and D-Air to footstool them, or jump back with a N-Air. I'm sure there's more options, so try out what you can! If they manage to grab the ledge and trump you off of it, or you miss your punish, here's where it gets a bit interesting. After they grab the ledge, as they didn't actually get hit at all, but rather trumped, they don't get any ledge invincibility. Here, you can follow up with a variety of moves, but I recommend doing a N-Air to bounce them off the stage, or D-Air to get a kill.

 

[Yan-Yan]

Kirby so good, that he can beat Lil Mac omg lol

 

[MikeKirby]

wheres your source for the frame data???? id like to look at that.

For easier access to everyone~
>>Smash 4 Landing Lag<<

Still salty about Kirby's b-air changes... buuut there's no use in fussing over spilt milk.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I'm salty about Yoshi being superior in just about every way. Somebody even told me "Use Yoshi instead" >_>