Guide [SSB4] Kirby's Epic Guide (ver. 2.1)

[Asdioh]

I'm sure they all have decent/good matchups against Kirby. Peach vs Kirby feels the same as it did in Brawl, and that was a tough matchup. Sheik is looking to be one of the best characters in the game, and so is Greninja. Greninja honestly feels impossible to beat for me.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Rosalina definitely. I found it nearly impossible to approach her successfully... That stupid luma and her movement speed compared to Kirby's.. At least when she dodges.

 

[kirby_queen]

anyone kind of disappointed with Kirby in the new smash? I feel that new hammer flip just makes Kirby predictably vulnerable... and he's lighter in this game and still slow compared to the cast.

There are some buffs and he's not TERRIBLE... but he doesn't feel like a HUGE improvement like say King Dedede... who I feel has been really improved.

 

[SmileyStation]

anyone kind of disappointed with Kirby in the new smash? I feel that new hammer flip just makes Kirby predictably vulnerable... and he's lighter in this game and still slow compared to the cast.

There are some buffs and he's not TERRIBLE... but he doesn't feel like a HUGE improvement like say King Dedede... who I feel has been really improved.

The hammer flip was always a vulnerable attack. It was unsafe on block and it was unsafe on land. It does better damage now and you can move foward with it. My only beef with it is that it does self-damage. Why does a hammer do self-damage? That doesnt make any sense....

 

[kirby_queen]

The hammer flip was always a vulnerable attack. It was unsafe on block and it was unsafe on land. It does better damage now and you can move foward with it. My only beef with it is that it does self-damage. Why does a hammer do self-damage? That doesnt make any sense....

true but that hammer attack in the air was much quicker. Kind of miss that aspect. True that it's stronger when you charge... but that self damage is definitely awful.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I dunno about the hammer being better, the damage may be higher, but I certainly don't get kills with the uncharged version like I did with the brawl version, and charging never really seems worth it. Not with how slow and fragile Kirby is.

 

[thatdamnlobster]

I dunno about the hammer being better, the damage may be higher, but I certainly don't get kills with the uncharged version like I did with the brawl version, and charging ever seems hardly worth it. Not with how slow and fragile Kirby is.

That why kirby is a glass canon. Besides, kirby is built for the air. I regret ever facing little mac on his own turf. FD is not kirbys friend....

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I wouldn't really call Kirby a glass cannon either, seems like he can't kill until around 120-130%? Now Lucario? Him I'd call a glass cannon. Aura is ridiculous.

 

[Unknownkid]

I just have problem with characters with counters. I know, it obvious. Bait and Take.

The hammer flip was always a vulnerable attack. It was unsafe on block and it was unsafe on land. It does better damage now and you can move foward with it. My only beef with it is that it does self-damage. Why does a hammer do self-damage? That doesnt make any sense....

Balance reason I guess. Good thing the recoil doesn't happen at 100% or higher. More reasons to spam Charged Rage Hammer. It also have super armor on the full charged swing.

 

[FreeGamer]

I honestly think our puffball is gonna end up low tier in this game. Despite all the nice buffs and his great juggling/gimping moves, I feel like he's too damn slow to keep up with most of the roster and he has no good answer to keepaway playstyles. Why Inhale/Hammer/Stone/Cutter have so much startup lag now is beyond me.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I'm feeling that way about him too, sadly. It's feeling like every other character has a bunch of nice tricks outside of gimping to take on opponents. Does Kirby have any attacks that knock somebody off a ledge? Didn't final cutter used to do that in one of the games? Like you could smash somebody hanging onto the ledge with the blade and they'd spiked down? I've find myself using the final cutter to catch an enemy and drag them back to the ground, but I always forget about the shockwave, so they end up out of my attack range. I know that if the shock wave wasn't there I would have had some KO's at the edge when the opponent was sentflying down.

 

[FreeGamer]

I think the second part of Final Cutter is a spike. Haven't tried facing away from the edge to hit them with it, but I imagine it feels great when it connects.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

It does feel great, makes me kind of wish the shock wave wasn't there, since it's not a good projectile to begin with.

 

[FreeGamer]

I really hope custom moves end up being legal, because Ice Breath and Cutter Wave are actually good.

 

[Asdioh]

Kirby's jumping inhale and "dolphin slash" cutter are fantastic. I got a jab-jab-up B kill earlier today with it and it got a reaction out of both of us :D

If tiers are split into Top/High/Mid/Low/Bottom, there's no way Kirby will be Bottom or Low. Sadly though it doesn't seem likely that he'll be Top or High either, his weaknesses are still too glaring, much like Brawl. I'm still hopeful though. At least he should be a solid mid tier.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

The rising cutter can KO, at what percents? I tried using it, but it felt too awkward to me. I love jumping inhale though. First time my friends saw it they were like "What the hell did you just do?"

 

[Asdioh]

I think it was around 130ish. He might have DI'd better if he expected it.
Btw Kirby is much better on stages with platforms. Tomodachi Life (even though that stage is kinda annoying) is fun because upthrow kills at an actually reasonable percent!

 

[Unknownkid]

Wait what? I test Up B 3 and I could not kill until 180% with Mario in Training. It wasn't stale either.

 

[FreeGamer]

If tiers are split into Top/High/Mid/Low/Bottom, there's no way Kirby will be Bottom or Low. Sadly though it doesn't seem likely that he'll be Top or High either, his weaknesses are still too glaring, much like Brawl. I'm still hopeful though. At least he should be a solid mid tier.

Are you sure? I feel like his overall slowness is going to make many of his matchups hell. Tons of characters got speed and power buffs from Brawl, and Kirby is just sitting there with a great D-Air and some solid tilts. :/

 

[lightdasher]

Wasn't sure where to put this, didn't think it needed it's own thread, so I'll put it here, my opinions on the usefulness of the copy abilities.

Spoiler

 

[Asdioh]

Wait what? I test Up B 3 and I could not kill until 180% with Mario in Training. It wasn't stale either.

It also depends on where you are on the stage. It's a solid KO move in certain spots on certain stages.

Are you sure? I feel like his overall slowness is going to make many of his matchups hell. Tons of characters got speed and power buffs from Brawl, and Kirby is just sitting there with a great D-Air and some solid tilts. :/

We'll see.

Wasn't sure where to put this, didn't think it needed it's own thread, so I'll put it here, my opinions on the usefulness of the copy abilities.

Spoiler

Opinions, but I'd have to disagree with some of them. Bowser/Charizard copies are actually amazing. Wario's Bite is really good and abusable (at least it was in Brawl). Donkey Kong's can be an alternate KO move if you're good with it, and I believe it has superarmor. Shield breakers are great for shield pressure and a disjointed hitbox is always nice. Dedede's is basically better than Kirby's I guess. Olimar's power was nice for camping in brawl. MK's Tornado was crappier than his in Brawl, I'll need to test how it is in Smash 4, nobody plays MK >_>
Agree with most of the other ones in your bottom tier though. Honestly, the majority of powers are (at least situationally) well worth copying.

 

[Unknownkid]

Wasn't sure where to put this, didn't think it needed it's own thread, so I'll put it here, my opinions on the usefulness of the copy abilities.

Spoiler

I will like to know your opinion on Charizard, Marth/Lucina and Yoshi. Our Shield Breaker lacks range but we go below theirs. Charizard as good range - Watch Asdiod's video against Charizard. Yoshi is a range inhale for free damage and exploit their pop out I guess (I prefer it but you might be right now this one).

 

[t!MmY]

The scariest part about Mac imo is that his smashes all have insane pushback when you shield them, so much that you can't reach him fast enough to punish. This might be better if you perfect shield?

Yeah, this was one problem I was having with the Little Mac who kept spamming smash attacks. I spent the better half of the match trying various ways of punishing, but Shielding wasn't doing it. Perfect Shields solve the problem but at that point it's bordering on a dubious strategy.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I always find charizard/bowser's inhale useful. It's a nice way to build up some damage and keep out of range f their tilts, can also use it with combos

 

[lightdasher]

I will like to know your opinion on Charizard, Marth/Lucina and Yoshi. Our Shield Breaker lacks range but we go below theirs. Charizard as good range - Watch Asdiod's video against Charizard. Yoshi is a range inhale for free damage and exploit their pop out I guess (I prefer it but you might be right now this one).

Marth/Lucina ability, the arms are really small (and Marth's has a tipper so it's even more awkward), and it's kinda risky, also I haven't used Charizard and Bowsers copy ability in 4 so I just based it on my Brawl experience, Yoshi however, the range is still small, and if they pop out the egg early it puts you in a bad position, with the inhale you can inhale a Yoshi on it's double jump and let them just fall out and fall to its death.

Wario you might as well just spit them out, you rack up the same damage and you can move, DeDeDes ability, while on paper seems the same as Kirbys minus copying, you can't move while they're in your mouth.

And don't worry I'm not deflecting your input, I want that list to be something we can all agree on.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Yeah, this was one problem I was having with the Little Mac who kept spamming smash attacks. I spent the better half of the match trying various ways of punishing, but Shielding wasn't doing it. Perfect Shields solve the problem but at that point it's bordering on a dubious strategy.

I'm getting better at handing little macs online, though I did manage to run into a decent one who didn't spam smashes and dodge rolls. He played pretty smart and unpredictably. I was able to get him off stage, but I wasn't able to keep him there. I always seem to send the mac's flying off at a high arc with a smash attack or a back throw, higher up than I can fly in a reasonable enough time to nail him with an aerial, and then they're back on stage before I can get there. I still feel like I'm struggling more than I should be. Guess I need to continue working on my air game. Any tips? Anytime I see a jigglypuff I get a little jealous of her air speed and priority, haha.

It's also feels difficult to get past Rosalina and her little buddy.

 

[lightdasher]

Actually, jumping into training mode now I notice Bowsers B has a small windbox at the end of it, and the range is longer than I thought, not sure about Charizards though.

But I think I may bump it up one on the list if you agree.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

you should try it after a forward throw. Like I said there are some potential comboes with it. Totally worth having, I've also had the fire eat weaker projectiles in "for fun".

 

[lightdasher]

Hrm, I'm not really feeling Charizards on Kirby though, it goes too quickly, Charizard gets out of it really quick, can't angle as well, no windbox, and you get pushed back too fast too. It also seems shorter than Bowsers.

Also I want to point out, copying Bowser Jr. does 11% instead of 10

 

[Unknownkid]

Marth/Lucina ability, the arms are really small (and Marth's has a tipper so it's even more awkward), and it's kinda risky, also I haven't used Charizard and Bowsers copy ability in 4 so I just based it on my Brawl experience, Yoshi however, the range is still small, and if they pop out the egg early it puts you in a bad position, with the inhale you can inhale a Yoshi on it's double jump and let them just fall out and fall to its death.

Wario you might as well just spit them out, you rack up the same damage and you can move, DeDeDes ability, while on paper seems the same as Kirbys minus copying, you can't move while they're in your mouth.

And don't worry I'm not deflecting your input, I want that list to be something we can all agree on.

Make sense. I guess I was lucky with Marth/Lucina. Thanks for clarification.

 

[lightdasher]

Also on the Donkey Kong copy ability, an uncharged Hammer sends as far as a fully charged DK punch. I tested this by putting DK at 50% and doing both an uncharged and charged punch, and an uncharged hammer flip.

 

[Unknownkid]

How about the super armor on the DK move? If we get his super armor, its a better move overall.

 

[lightdasher]

How about the super armor on the DK move? If we get his super armor, its a better move overall.

Does the entire move have super armor or only fully charged? If it's only fully charged then it doesn't seem worth it.

I'll test now and edit this post when I'm done.

EDIT: No super armor from what I can tell, both uncharged and fully charged.

 

[t!MmY]

The guide has been updated!

I have important Kirby info for everyone, so make sure to check out the following sections:

Kirby Moveset
Is complete with a description of all attacks.

Leads, Follow-Ups & Combos
This section has been added, but is still in progress. Now go pull off awesome combos!

*Special B-throw Combo section!*
I found out that Kirby's B-throw can combo into B-air! It is both character-dependent and damage dependent, but don't fret: I have a list of which characters it works on and at which damage percents! It's rather rough right now, but I'll make it look much nicer (and more understandable) when I get some time!

*Important Note:*
Kirby's F-Air(1) has a 'secret hitbox'. Hit with the tip of his toe to send the opponent in a more vertical trajectory! It takes super-precision to pull off (even in Training Mode), but you can use this to create more options for your F-air(1) follow-ups! I made a note of this in the guide, but it might be too subtle of a technique so I'm making a special note of it here.

Discuss!

 

[lightdasher]

*Special B-throw Combo section!*
I found out that Kirby's B-throw can combo into B-air! It is both character-dependent and damage dependent, but don't fret: I have a list of which characters it works on and at which damage percents! It's rather rough right now, but I'll make it look much nicer (and more understandable) when I get some time!

I noticed this when I was re-testing DeDeDes copy ability (which I might add is better than I thought, must've read the numbers wrong first time or something)

I'll make an update to the Copy ability "tier" list in a moment.

 

[Asdioh]

*Important Note:*
Kirby's F-Air(1) has a 'secret hitbox'. Hit with the tip of his toe to send the opponent in a more vertical trajectory! It takes super-precision to pull off (even in Training Mode), but you can use this to create more options for your F-air(1) follow-ups! I made a note of this in the guide, but it might be too subtle of a technique so I'm making a special note of it here.

Discuss!

I was hitting the sandbag in the practice room and one time I faired it and it went SUPER high. Could that be it?

 

[Unknownkid]

Does the entire move have super armor or only fully charged? If it's only fully charged then it doesn't seem worth it.

I'll test now and edit this post when I'm done.

EDIT: No super armor from what I can tell, both uncharged and fully charged.

Apparently, for DK, during the hitbox. But I guess we don't have it. It is still faster than the Hammer Flip.

 

[lightdasher]

Update, DeDeDe moved up twice (turns out you CAN move with someone in your mouth, and at Kirbys speed instead of DeDeDes) Lucario moved down, can't even kill Lucario at 150 fully charged, Wario, Bowser, Lucina, Metaknight and Jigglypuff moved up.

Spoiler

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I can only imagine how much of a boon it would be for kirby if he got some properties of the other characters when he copied them. Imagine him with aura.

 

[lightdasher]

I can only imagine how much of a boon it would be for kirby if he got some properties of the other characters when he copied them. Imagine him with aura.

Kirby with a KO punch, or Luma, or Pikmin, how frightening.