Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[~Dad~]

On a big stage you can pretty much run away from Ganon indefinitely. It's hilarious.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Fellow Squirtles, it's been a while (not that any of you have noticed or cared).

My friend and I finally got a capture card and will be uploading to Youtube semi-frequently. We already have some practice stuff up. Once in a while we play a serious set (3/5) against each other and we get a lot of milage out of it by watching it closing. We recently had a really good set where I came back from an 0-2 deficit. Of all Squirtle MUs, I feel like Peach has been one that comes up semi-frequently in this thread. My friend mains Peach and I feel that we have a pretty developed Squirtle-Peach meta.

I'll post any notable matches/set on this page for you guys (including one in this post). And some laid-back practice videos for you enjoyment once in a while. Critique of the Peach MU and Squirtle play in general would be much appreciated. Be as brutal and blunt as you want, I respond well to harsh criticism when it comes to improvement.

Laid-back practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP9kIaIeIQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilVQWYT_a2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOEcUjbcpfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h6JFVKddDQ

Serious practice (best of 5)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRBDeY7e75Q - Game 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baiYQbCMo3c - Games 2 & 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8luWuA2Hug - Game 4 (possibly my best)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPyFcFU0wcY - Game 5


Notes about my friend and me:
Chzy tends to start out strong and fade while I tend to start weak and pick up steam as I go, so our best play probably starts mid-way through game 2 (minus the flubs on my part) and ends about half way through game 4. Chzy is absolutely balls-to-the-wall aggro with a character that is difficult to punish lag on. Since Peach's neutral game aggro counters Squirtle's neutral game aggro pretty darn well, you'll find me doing more aggressive baiting, read attempts, spacing, punishing, and hit and running over aggressive initiating and approaching. You'll see Chzy constantly putting pressure on me and slowly taking my options and me either finding ways out of the pressure, punishing it, or dying.

 

[Kamarihi]

Ok, I really need some help. I have no idea how to kill people.

If I can't land my forward air or my hydro pump, I literally have no idea how to shut them down. I can't edgeguard with Squirtle for whatever reason. Everyone else just seems to have an easier time recovering. I just need some serious advice on how to improve my edgeguard game and grab game. :/ I'm just getting really discouraged with how bad I've been getting stomped lately.

 

[Sir Skaro]

Ok, I really need some help.

How long have you been playing Squirtle? You may just need to mess around with the character a little longer and get the feel of him. I had the same problem with Lucario, but I just kept playing him and as I started to understand the character it became easier to get combos, approach, and get kills.

Also, how long have you been playing Smash? The problem may just be fundamentals, which will come naturally with time and practice. You can't win if you can't control your character, no matter who it is. I only ask because it says you joined Smashboards a few days ago.

 

[coopreme]

Ok, I really need some help. I have no idea how to kill people.

If I can't land my forward air or my hydro pump, I literally have no idea how to shut them down. I can't edgeguard with Squirtle for whatever reason. Everyone else just seems to have an easier time recovering. I just need some serious advice on how to improve my edgeguard game and grab game. :/ I'm just getting really discouraged with how bad I've been getting stomped lately.

dont worry. i also suck. to grab that ledge: pivot - WD backwards into edgegrab. Seriously, squirtle's WD is that of a slippery water-based demi-god.

 

[_Pixel_]

As far as grabbing the ledge, Coop is 100% right. Turnaround and WD back is in my muscle memory and very rightly so. It's so useful :D

Setting up to kill with Squirtle can be tricky as you have to get them within the window percent wise where they are still combo-able, but not flying everywhere. I typically have issues putting off trying a kill move, then realizing that I put too much percent on them that I can't setup a kill move. That's something to keep in mind during the game.

As far as kill options go, for me I tend to use the following:

• DThrow: This is an obvious one but I would like to mention there are tons of ways to set this one up. If you see a grab, nab it. Other wise if you are trying to bait it out then walking up to the opponent, shielding to bait out an attack, then grabbing works way to often. Don't forget about Hydrograb, the range throws a lot of people off and you can slide into a grab easily if someone has a lot of cool down on a move. Also don't forget about pivot grab, fantastic move if you are up close and personal.
• USmash: Also obvious but hard to setup. be VERY careful trying this move while your opponent is standing, it is difficult with the slow startup not to get punished by someone who is grounded. Getting under someone while they are on the platform is a another story entirely. Now here's where your Squirtle techs come in handy. If someone is recovering, then reverse hydroplane upsmash is a saint. Going from a run into a very quick sliding usmash catches a lot of people off guard and you don't need to keep the smash charged that long for it to work. Very handy to use if you know if someone if going for a ledge or is a bit high up. On the same wavelength, don't forget about hydroplaned upsmash.
• NAir: Here's the secret to killing with Squirtle I'm convinced. People will see the other two coming and expect it if they know Squirtle, but they don't really expect your NAir to offer so much knockback. Try to set this move up when they are in the air, or by following up some aerial combos with it. When they are off stage try and hit them with this, hard. Squritle tech also helps you here a bunch. I love running toward someone, using the boost that slingjump offers and going for a nair. So basically, dash, turn around, jump, nair, gives you a huge boost of speed and that Nair hitbox is coming at them like a cannon ball. Similarly, shellshift nair is good if they are standing and they are tall enough. Speed alone is your edge for going in when they are on cool down or they make a mistake.

Those are my basics with Squirtle, let me know if I need to clarify or if anyone wants to chime in.

 

[PlateProp]

As far as grabbing the ledge, Coop is 100% right. Turnaround and WD back is in my muscle memory and very rightly so. It's so useful :D

Setting up to kill with Squirtle can be tricky as you have to get them within the window percent wise where they are still combo-able, but not flying everywhere. I typically have issues putting off trying a kill move, then realizing that I put too much percent on them that I can't setup a kill move. That's something to keep in mind during the game.

As far as kill options go, for me I tend to use the following:

• DThrow: This is an obvious one but I would like to mention there are tons of ways to set this one up. If you see a grab, nab it. Other wise if you are trying to bait it out then walking up to the opponent, shielding to bait out an attack, then grabbing works way to often. Don't forget about Hydrograb, the range throws a lot of people off and you can slide into a grab easily if someone has a lot of cool down on a move. Also don't forget about pivot grab, fantastic move if you are up close and personal.
• USmash: Also obvious but hard to setup. be VERY careful trying this move while your opponent is standing, it is difficult with the slow startup not to get punished by someone who is grounded. Getting under someone while they are on the platform is a another story entirely. Now here's where your Squirtle techs come in handy. If someone is recovering, then reverse hydroplane upsmash is a saint. Going from a run into a very quick sliding usmash catches a lot of people off guard and you don't need to keep the smash charged that long for it to work. Very handy to use if you know if someone if going for a ledge or is a bit high up. On the same wavelength, don't forget about hydroplaned upsmash.
• NAir: Here's the secret to killing with Squirtle I'm convinced. People will see the other two coming and expect it if they know Squirtle, but they don't really expect your NAir to offer so much knockback. Try to set this move up when they are in the air, or by following up some aerial combos with it. When they are off stage try and hit them with this, hard. Squritle tech also helps you here a bunch. I love running toward someone, using the boost that slingjump offers and going for a nair. So basically, dash, turn around, jump, nair, gives you a huge boost of speed and that Nair hitbox is coming at them like a cannon ball. Similarly, shellshift nair is good if they are standing and they are tall enough. Speed alone is your edge for going in when they are on cool down or they make a mistake.

Those are my basics with Squirtle, let me know if I need to clarify or if anyone wants to chime in.

Uncharged Water gun when people try to dash up in your face -> Grab

 

[Kamarihi]

@ Sir Skaro I've been playing Smash for years, only recently have I decided to take it to competitive play- this means I have a lot of fundamental learning to do and I need to get my ass-kicked quite a bit before I'll understand. But I ask these questions to get some insight from more experienced players, that's all.

 

[Daftatt]

Protip: You can waveland out of short hop fair.

Mastertip: you can move VERY fast around if you wavesling (slingjump wavedash) back and forth, like, reallly really really fast and you can dominate stage control with it. It's pretty much how I move around all the time in combination with a few other movement techniques like waveshifting (wavedashing out of shellshift).

 

[Jamwa]

Can I give protips yet?
crawl attack is the cutest way to dodge aerials

 

[_Pixel_]

Protip: You can waveland out of short hop fair.

Isn't that just SHFFLing?

 

[~Dad~]

Isn't that just SHFFLing?

No, SHFFL stands for Short Hop Fast Fall L-cancel, waveland is different because it lets you reposition yourself after the aerial.

 

[Daftatt]

No, SHFFL stands for Short Hop Fast Fall L-cancel, waveland is different because it lets you reposition yourself after the aerial.

Tell it to him don! Don't you question my advice pixel because that's a one way trip to regretville around these parts.

 

[_Pixel_]

Tell it to him don! Don't you question my advice pixel because that's a one way trip to regretville around these parts.

Sorry, for some reason it didn't sit that you were using the wave land to go back and forth. I don't know what I was thinking.

Srryyy...

 

[~Dad~]

I wasn't trying to be rude I was just clarifying D:

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

@ Sir Skaro I've been playing Smash for years, only recently have I decided to take it to competitive play- this means I have a lot of fundamental learning to do and I need to get my ***-kicked quite a bit before I'll understand. But I ask these questions to get some insight from more experienced players, that's all.

Once you go to tournaments, you will understand that playing Smash for years means nothing when it comes to a competitive level. Almost everyone here was the "best on the block" before they started competitively. If this is your 1st competitive game, then I suggest you search for articles on this site about how to improve and also look at the shoryuken.com articles as well.

 

[PlateProp]

@ Sir Skaro I've been playing Smash for years, only recently have I decided to take it to competitive play- this means I have a lot of fundamental learning to do and I need to get my ***-kicked quite a bit before I'll understand. But I ask these questions to get some insight from more experienced players, that's all.

I just played CPU's

Alot of CPU's

Then I was a low mid tier Squirtle.
Then I learned Ganon and became an upper mid tier Squirtle

Inb4 stays mid tier squirtle forever because I dont wavedash or anything

 

[~Dad~]

Plate pls wavedash it's so good pls.

 

[Jamwa]

How does everyone think Squirtle does against MK?

 

[PlateProp]

Plate pls wavedash it's so good pls.

It's not that I can't, just never really do unless it's on accident amd randomly saves me

I do too many things on accident that work and kill

Squirtle too loopy to actually play plz

 

[Cloudburst]

I feel like MK vs Squirtle is in MK's favor, but maybe I'm just bad.

Does anyone want to make a list of solid approach options that tend to lead into combos?

Off the top of my head:
SS shorthop bubble/dair/nair
SJ nair

I feel like dair and nair are the strongest approach options - I tend to struggle in starting combos off of bubble against good players.

 

[Jamwa]

Water Gun and Bubble are all I use anyway
withdraw after you condition them to double jump

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Who are the best squirtle mains? I've been trying to look up squirtle vids to improve my game and the only squirtle I found was jewchainz.

 

[~Dad~]

Who are the best squirtle mains? I've been trying to look up squirtle vids to improve my game and the only squirtle I found was jewchainz.

Not Jewchainz.

lol

 

[PlateProp]

Who are the best squirtle mains? I've been trying to look up squirtle vids to improve my game and the only squirtle I found was jewchainz.

Jewchainz is too amish, and don't believe anything anyone says about Wombat cuz he plays amish too.

Your best bet is Daftatt

 

[~Dad~]

Watch Burnsy, Daftatt doesn't have much recorded.

 

[PlateProp]

Watch Burnsy, Daftatt doesn't have much recorded.

Pff Burnsy, that guy aint nothing special...

Jk Burnsy, you good

 

[Daftatt]

Watch Burnsy, Daftatt doesn't have much recorded.

Gonna be streaming a lot more

twitch.tv/daftatt
I'll post whenever I'm on going all cobra on others with squirtle on stream.

Yall should watch and we can talk about high level movement and stuff.

 

[PlateProp]

Gonna be streaming a lot more

twitch.tv/daftatt
I'll post whenever I'm on going all cobra on others with squirtle on stream.

Yall should watch and we can talk about high level movement and stuff.

We're supposed to do that in the hangout though

and no one else watches the streams and all your friends think i'm weird ;-;

 

[Daftatt]

We're supposed to do that in the hangout though

and no one else watches the streams and all your friends think i'm weird ;-;

It's kind of hard to talk about slingwave/waveshift movement in a chat.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

What do you mean by amish lol

 

[Daftatt]

What do you mean by amish lol

As in doesn't use squirtle technology, advanced techniques, such as RHUS, hydrograb, hydropivot, slingwave, wavesling. All in all it usually boils down to a squirtle that moves maybe 1/5th the speed that he could be. It's incredibly frustrating to watch and most people just assume you're supposed to play squirtle slow/campy/withdrawspam

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Sir Skaro]

Did anyone watch the videos I posted?

 

[Daftatt]

Did anyone watch the videos I posted?

Yo, I totally watched all the serious ones, your squirtle is the bee's knees dude. I like how good at slingjump aerials you are, and good movement with it too (slingjump), pretty much anyone that can use slingjump bair as a neutral crossover is definitely not an amish squirtle. You just got to keep working at tech to push your movement even further now!

Now you should try using wavesling and waveshift to move around on the ground and fish for grabs, or as I call it, COBRA STYLE.

 

[PlateProp]

Yo, I totally watched all the serious ones, your squirtle is the bee's knees dude. I like how good at slingjump aerials you are, and good movement with it too (slingjump), pretty much anyone that can use slingjump bair as a neutral crossover is definitely not an amish squirtle. You just got to keep working at tech to push your movement even further now!

Now you should try using wavesling and waveshift to move around on the ground and fish for grabs, or as I call it, KOBRA KAI STYLE.

Fix'd

 

[Sir Skaro]

Now you should try using wavesling and waveshift to move around on the ground and fish for grabs, or as I call it, COBRA STYLE.

Thank you! That's really encouraging, especially coming from you! So, a waveshift is just wave dashing out of shefllshift?

I also grab a lot more when I'm not against Peach. Peach is risky to grab outside of tech chases, so I tone it down a bit.

 

[Jamwa]

Armada told me about a swedish squirtle called VG or something who took Prof.Pro to game 5

 

[PlateProp]

Armada told me about a swedish squirtle called VG or something who took Prof.Pro to game 5

I bet I could take Prof to game 5

But that's just me being cocky and banking on Prof not knowing what Squirtle can do.

He defs know how to shutdown wd spam tho

 

[Daftatt]

Nomatter where on the stage you hit, even if it's from the ground, you can waveland when you pop out of a withdraw hit. As you bounce across the opponent, or with them (assuming you connected), remember to waveland!

Thank you! That's really encouraging, especially coming from you! So, a waveshift is just wave dashing out of shefllshift?

I also grab a lot more when I'm not against Peach. Peach is risky to grab outside of tech chases, so I tone it down a bit.

BTW when I talk about movement with squirtle, use this video of me just training to reference what I mean.

My strategy is to tightly move around really fast in a small area to bait my opponent into approaching and seeing if I can get a grab punish. If they don't push towards me I expand my movement to more of the stage, thus gaining stage control. I can zip back into a tiny space at any point and can always escape, but I either get a grab or force an edgeguard situation. Projectile spam don't bother me much, see the last video if you need to see my powershield prowess