Squirtle Squad (General Disc.)

[Translucent]

Unfortunately, U-smash not a fantastic one, just a good one for squirtle standards.

 

[0RLY]

I think the Sonic matchup is really really hard. Simply because his run's faster than Squirtle's side B means he can catch up and punish ending lag that not a lot of characters can capitalize on. Side B can retreat really well, but there's not a lot of places to retreat to with Sonic's ground speed.

I spend a lot of time in my shield against Sonic. Squirtle's hitboxes are small, but he has up smash and up b OOS, and he also has pretty good escape options with SH side b out of shield.

I think Squirtle's main problem is his SH height. It's hard to put out a disjointed bair to edgeguard when it takes a while to land and do it again. There's also a lot more lag on the end of a bair than I originally thought when first I picked him up too. Since his SH is so high, I don't really think there's any excuse for him to not be able to SH bair and waveland in the same jump. Bair's pretty good for walling sonic, but it's too slow to keep using, and I always find myself in my shield again.

Usmash is pretty much always the answer to anyone's approach in any direction

So, from what I gather, the answer is "no"?

Does anyone ever feel like Squirtle is just a worse version of Sonic?

 

[JayMan-X]

So, from what I gather, the answer is "no"?

Does anyone ever feel like Squirtle is just a worse version of Sonic?

Always

At least Squirtle has a cool pair of shades

Edit: Honestly, Squirtle kinda plays different than Sonic plays, so i actually don't really feel Sonic is a 100% better Squirlte, but Sonic's Down B and Side B compared to Squirtle's Side B and ShellShift make me cry.

 

[Bones0]

There's nothing wrong with the actual Shell Shift. Squirtle's run is just too slow to make adequate use of it. Withdraw is also fine. Sonic's spindashes are just OP... and I don't think I've described something as "OP" in any game for years...

 

[Translucent]

I feel like Squirtle is a toned-down luigi. His aeirals aren't as good, wavedash not as far, and not as many combos(at least in my experience). I feel like squirtle would do better as more of a sheik rather than a luigi, or even a lucas.

 

[Inty17]

So, from what I gather, the answer is "no"?

Does anyone ever feel like Squirtle is just a worse version of Sonic?

I haven't played good enough Sonics to say yes or no. That's why I was kinda beating around the bush.

Squirtle's definitely not amazing, but I'm not gonna not play Squirtle in a video game.

 

[SpiderMad]

I don't really think there's any excuse for him to not be able to SH bair and waveland in the same jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpbVWPk0tbw

 

[Inty17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpbVWPk0tbw

lol lol lol this is why i love smashboards

 

[SpiderMad]

lol lol lol this is why i love smashboards

If you're having trouble pressing the A soon enough after he leaves the jump use the same style of button pressing I do in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0sqGLVvFEI
I hope people get something out of watching my hands in that video, since other people have similar issues with getting attacks out (I mean I wish it was easier too, but people think certain things are impossible)
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4584-post-105271.html#pid105271

 

[Inty17]

Lol i honestly think I just didn't try hard enough to do it. Squirtle's SH is awkwardly large though, considering his size.

 

[JayMan-X]

So lately, i've been experimenting with uptilt follow-ups, and uptilt > side B jump works really nice at low-mid percents (i like it a lot better than following with upair).
Also, kinda bumping the thread bcuz ppl should talk more Squirtle

 

[Burnsy]

I'm kind of surprised that no one is discussing 2.6 squirtle changes shown on stream. Haven't had a chance to check them out myself. Does anyone have any deets they'd like to share?

 

[cmart]

I guess I'll sweeten the pot~

I'll confirm/deconfirm the first straight 2.6 Squirtle question someone asks me

 

[mYzeALot]

Is Squirtle a viable character now?

 

[cmart]

Yes.

: p

Seriously though, that sort of thing is always hard to tell without tournament data, but I can say that Reflex and I put a ton of work into him and went over almost every single move/aspect of this character in our quest to make him viable.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I sure do wish someone asked a more specific question

I like what was down to upthrow, so that's already enough for me to play him some more.

 

[dettadeus]

Who came up with the crawl attack?

 

[cmart]

IIRC that was my idea

 

[SpiderMad]

Why'd you make his Neutral-B hold to charge, I liked the Brawl one

 

[Bones0]

Hold to charge is the only way to design B-moves. Why would you want to have to double click B every time you want to shoot an uncharged Water Gun?

Where can I find a list of comprehensive list of 2.6 changes?

 

[SpiderMad]

Hold to charge is the only way to design B-moves. Why would you want to have to double click B every time you want to shoot an uncharged Water Gun?

Where can I find a list of comprehensive list of 2.6 changes?

you believe uncharged is used more than charged? Every stock you want to get full charge again don't you? It's annoying, double tap B was fine for every other Brawl mod iteration of Squirtle I've played.

 

[Bones0]

you believe uncharged is used more than charged? Every stock you want to get full charge again don't you? It's annoying, double tap B was fine for every other Brawl mod iteration of Squirtle I've played.

I barely see anyone used charged Water Gun. Unless they buffed it in which case I guess an argument can be made if it's more comparable to Samus's charge shot than Sheik's needles. Even then, I'd still probably prefer holding B so I can instantly shoot during a charge by releasing instead of releasing and repressing.

 

[Burnsy]

Is down-air any different, or does it just have it's (uglier) brawl animation?

SH bubble looks different as well. Does it affect his aerial momentum less?

 

[cmart]

We'll have a post up sometime soon (tm) that goes into more details on individual moves, but you can look forward to a lot of Squirtle's moveset having less cooldown and/or start up, and several coats of design polish. We were really constrained by the pokémon trainer filesize limit, so breaking that opened up a lot of possibilities for 2.6 Squirtle.

I'll at least confirm that bubble is identical to 2.5.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Even if he somehow ends up unviable, we can guarantee that he's significantly more fun to use. I think you'll get a good combination of viable and entertaining, though.

 

[Rat]

I'm pretty excited for 2.6 squirtle. He's really fun to play. I might think about making a video or something. Show off some of his new options.

 

[cmart]

Go for it Rat : D

 

[SpiderMad]

give shout outs to spidermad in it

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

New Squirtle is a lot of fun, just like Reflex said. I think I love the change to UpB the most, it feels like a proper finisher now.

 

[KoozyK]

cant figure out how to upB out of withdraw now...i did it once just dont know what i did.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Press A while in Withdraw.

 

[cmart]

The input was changed to attack. Aside from being subjectively easier, it allows grounded aquajets and using the cstick for reverse aquajet.

 

[Burnsy]

I've always wanted a grounded aquajet really badly. Good work guys. I'm loving how ridiculous the added airspeed makes his shellshift teleport bair.

 

[JayMan-X]

I'm loving how ridiculous the added airspeed makes his shellshift teleport bair.

So they gave Squirtle more airspeed? Gosh I cant wait til I get a chance to play on Friday. What else did you notice they changed besides A doing Aqua Jet out of withdraw?

 

[Burnsy]

Downsmash doesn't last as long (not sure how I feel about this one, but it seems better in most situations). A lot of his moves like utilt have slightly less endlag to facilitate followups. Dtilt in particular seems much safer.

 

[MrHazuki]

So that's how you do it now! Was really disappointed that Squirtle's recovery was nerfed. >_>
The new up-B doesn't really solve Squirtle's biggest issue, as far as I've understood, which is out-of-shield options.

 

[Squartle]

So that's how you do it now! Was really disappointed that Squirtle's recovery was nerfed. >_>
The new up-B doesn't really solve Squirtle's biggest issue, as far as I've understood, which is out-of-shield options.

I've always that Squirtle's best way to get out of shield pressure was wave dashing into a retreating Bubble. Doesn't work against some of the faster chars, but it's a good technique.

 

[Aenglaan]

Squirtle in 2.6 seems to have lost the withdraw up-B move in 2.6. I can't seem to be able to do it for some reason.

 

[Kally Wally]

You don't press up-b for that anymore, you press A.

Question: Could you always angle Waterfall left and right? I never played Squirtle much in 2.5, and I know that move was changed, but I don't remember being able to to it straight up.

 

[Rat]

yes you could, but squirtle might have more control in 2.6. idk for sure though.