Squirtle Advanced Techniques, Strategies, and Cool Names for Things - Video Added!

[~Dad~]

I've done this accidentally a bunch, good to know what it was. What should we call it? Moon Crawl?

... WAIT...NO... SOMETHING EVEN BETTER... I HAVE IT...

The Shellectric Slide

this is why these boards need me, this is why I'm here

ilu so much
New signature <3

 

[Player -0]

I think I've seen Daft with that signature but multiple characters.

 

[JCOnyx]

Finally made the video demonstrating mooncrawling/shellectric slide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjDo1y64yY

 

[Player -0]

Finally made the video demonstrating mooncrawling/shellectric slide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRjDo1y64yY

Is there a reason you jumped after each time you did it?

 

[JCOnyx]

Nah, just a bad habit of mine with Squirtle. I also wanted to start close to the center of the stage to show the distance you can get from it, and wavedashing and jumping seemed like the fastest and most precise way to accomplish that. The moments between 0:20 - 1:08 are some of the smaller distances you can get with it and some mistakes.

 

[Yoki]

Did anyone figure out how exactly non-reversed hydroplane fsmash are done? It happened to me a few times by accident, and it seems like doing the input for hydroplane dsmash wrong can result in a reversed fsmash most of the times, and very rarely in a fsmash in the direction of the slide. I can't seem to figure out whether you need to hit a very specific c-stick angle or a particular frame to do it, but it can also happen by tilting the c stick diagonally upward (speaking of which, hydroplane usmash can also be performed this way, similarly to hydroplane dsmash).

The medium armor and massive momentum could give it some uses if someone can figure out how to do it reliably. Squirtle gets the same amount of momentum boost as from a reversed fsmash (plus some burst speed from the attack going in the right direction), unlike simultaneously hitting the control stick backward and the c-stick forward which only gives very little sliding distance.

 

[Burnsy]

You just need to pivot and then smash in the right direction. There's not really any "trick" to it, all hydroplane smashes work the same way, other than reverse usmash, since that uses jump cancelling. The biggest thing is just choosing the pivoting method that works best for you. The execution can be difficult depending on how much experience you have with quick and precise stick movements.

 

[Yoki]

I can do smashes out of a pivot, but I'm not not getting nearly as much distance out of it. By hitting diagonally on the c-stick from a shellshift on the edge of FD, the smash hitbox seems to go from about the one quarter mark to the middle of FD, and I still have enough momentum after that to keep sliding off the opposite edge. All for 4 smash directions can be performed this way, but the right input for a non-reversed fsmash seems ridiculously difficult (and I don't even get why it works in the first place, since I'm hitting the c stick in the opposite direction).

I also noticed you can "B-reverse" a (pivot) grab during shellshift, which is performed and looks exactly as it sounds. Might not be very useful though.

 

[Burnsy]

Then I guess the C-stick method works better for you. Technically, nothing is limiting your distance when doing manual pivots. Its just you not inputting the pivot at the correct time or not smashing fast enough after pivoting (or both). All the cstick does is buffer a pivot and smash for you at the same time. The distance is not related to the method.

The angle you are hitting the cstick at determines your action after pivoting. A very slight difference in angle can result in getting fsmash instead of dsmash, which is why I usually opt to perform my hydroplane slides manually (also, because it lets me hydroplane whatever moves I want, even stuff like utilt and crawl tilt)

 

[Yoki]

I figured it was a matter of speed, but although I'm sure some people can do it much faster than myself, I'm not sure it's humanly possible to do a 1-frame pivot smash and get the maximum possible momentum with the control stick. I can reliably get the angle right for dsmash (or usmash, though jump canceling it is more failproof), but what I'm pointing out is that after a shellshift going from right to left, a specific angle diagonally upward/downard and right will, for some reason, do a fsmash to the left with insane momentum rather than what you typically get from messing up a dsmash.

 

[JCOnyx]

Has anyone else found that UpAir will occasionally have you land immediately after using it when coming up through a platform? It's sort of similar to Olimar's aerial pikmin pluck technique except it doesn't technically auto cancel (actually it might... I'm not quite sure) and the window seems really REALLY tight. I can only get it on like 1/10 tries.

I was testing this on PS2's platforms using full jumps, but it should work on just about any platform low enough to be honest.

EDIT: I think I found a way to get this to happen more often and the most effective way of using it. Use Z to execute the UpAir, that way it'll automatically L-Cancel when it forces you to land, and right after hitting up no the control stick to do the UpAir press and hold down. I have no idea why the pressing and holding down makes this work, since I'm not at the apex of my jump yet there is no way I'm fast falling, but it does. Any insight as to why this could be would be really nice, perhaps I can find other characters that can utilize this.

 

[Player -0]

Has anyone else found that UpAir will occasionally have you land immediately after using it when coming up through a platform? It's sort of similar to Olimar's aerial pikmin pluck technique except it doesn't technically auto cancel (actually it might... I'm not quite sure) and the window seems really REALLY tight. I can only get it on like 1/10 tries.

I was testing this on PS2's platforms using full jumps, but it should work on just about any platform low enough to be honest.

EDIT: I think I found a way to get this to happen more often and the most effective way of using it. Use Z to execute the UpAir, that way it'll automatically L-Cancel when it forces you to land, and right after hitting up no the control stick to do the UpAir press and hold down. I have no idea why the pressing and holding down makes this work, since I'm not at the apex of my jump yet there is no way I'm fast falling, but it does. Any insight as to why this could be would be really nice, perhaps I can find other characters that can utilize this.

It's the melee platform cancel. It's really annoying when I'm trying to do Marth aerials but end up with the dair ending lag when jumping through a platform.

I believe it's when you pass through a platform during it's autocancel frames. Moves have autocancel frames on the beginning and end.

Edit: Or drop cancelling. Here's a link to SmashWiki. Going to assume it's reliable: (One sec I had the wrong link..)

Edit10: Idk, I think it's melee platform cancelling anyway.

 

[JCOnyx]

It... sounds like it's a combination of the Brawls and Melees or maybe I'm just confused. I'm coming up through the platform like a brawl platform cancel, except it isn't a moving platform. In theory you should be able to apply drop canceling without the dropping, thus why this would work when coming up through the platform... I don't know. Tech in SSB is so difficult to understand at times, and supposedly this is one of the hardest to use as well. Kinda neat that I figured out how to use this just by messing around though.

 

[Jamwa]

some (most) aerials move characters, and some will cause their hitbox that registers for landing to move up/down
so if you use uair on mario, his landing hitbox will sometimes move down faster than he is rising (depends on the current speed of your jump) and cause the landing.
at least thats how it makes sense to me i dunno
the hitboxes didnt come out on doc in melee if i remember correctly when uair was used to land like this

its not related to brawl i think because you could platform drop with down+R

 

[QraQ]

Has anyone else found that UpAir will occasionally have you land immediately after using it when coming up through a platform? It's sort of similar to Olimar's aerial pikmin pluck technique except it doesn't technically auto cancel (actually it might... I'm not quite sure) and the window seems really REALLY tight. I can only get it on like 1/10 tries.

I was testing this on PS2's platforms using full jumps, but it should work on just about any platform low enough to be honest.

EDIT: I think I found a way to get this to happen more often and the most effective way of using it. Use Z to execute the UpAir, that way it'll automatically L-Cancel when it forces you to land, and right after hitting up no the control stick to do the UpAir press and hold down. I have no idea why the pressing and holding down makes this work, since I'm not at the apex of my jump yet there is no way I'm fast falling, but it does. Any insight as to why this could be would be really nice, perhaps I can find other characters that can utilize this.

Dude I have been working this tech for a month! I've got it to work really well with many characters moves. It's a nearly 100% cancel except for the slight landing lag. It works with aligning feet or hands I think lol.

List of moves I've found to be consistent:
Char-Dair , Squirt-Uair/Bair , Ivy-Uair , Wolf-Dair , Snake-Uair ...........others but bleh.

 

[JCOnyx]

Here's a small video showcasing some of the possibilities with Hydroplane Reversals (aka MoonCrawl or #ShellectricSlide). Please take note that some of these aren't performed to the best of their ability. The FSmash for example can go further than what I recorder here if done perfectly. And a small note, all of the smashes can be charged with seemingly no effect to the distance they travel.

 

[Daftatt]

I was thinking about some cleanup on our naming conventions for squirtle, and if we were to build a tech tree for him, here is what I propose.

First off, all of our advanced techniques come out of shellshift.

SHELLSHIFT
the first subtrees out of shellshift are hydroplane, which is defined as an action out of the ending of shellshift, and shellsling, which is an action out of a jump at the beginning of shellshift, from these two subtrees we can order all the remaining techniques, I'm only listing techniques that I think are actually usefull, so correct me on any omissions if you disagree
Hydroplane

Hydroplane F-smash
Hydroplane JC Grab (Hydrograb)
Hydroplane-jump (Hydrofake, I'm just listing this since it's an important mixup for hydrograb, when people predict the grab jumping out of hydroplane cover's all their counter-options)
Hydroplane Backcrawl (HydroReversal)

Hydroreversal-Pivot-Grab
Hydroreversal-D-tilt
Hydroreversal-D-smash
Hydroreversal-shield
Hydroreversal-Fsmash (a retreating F-smash out of hydroplane)
Hydroreversal-Usmash​

Hydroplane Wavedash (Hydrowave?, lol, water puns)
Hydropivot (it's own subtree of ATs)

Hydropivot-Shield (Hydroshield)
Hydropivot-D-smash (IMO just better than Hydroplane D-smash
Hydropivot-Forward-F-smash (best version of this move IMO)
Hydropivot-Jab (Shellshank, actually really useful)​

Shellsling

Shellsling-Aerials

Shellsling-Nair (Cannonball)
Shellsling-Bair (Spear)
Shellsling-Fair (Boomerang, especially if you don't use C-stick, instead hold the control stick therefore have a boomerang effect)
Shellsling-Uair (Can't think of a good analogy)
Shellsling-Dair (Twister, does anybody actually use this?)​

Shellsling-JC-U-smash (Shellectric Slide, this move isn't really a hydroplane since you shellsling then cancel the jump squat into u-smash, I floated "Shellectric slide" as a name for mooncrawl, but it wasn't actually a slide, however this move, being very convoluted, could use a simple name and it's one of squirtle's best ATs, so I think shellectric slide works)
Shellsling-BReversal-Watergun (Gunsling, super awesome fakeout)​

Hydroplane obviously has it's own subtree in hydropivot, which outside of hydrograb is the most important Hydroplane to learn, as you can hydroplane-dsmash and forward hydroplane f-smash more reliably. Also hydro-pivot into shield is just flatout amazing (and the shield is instant unlike wavedash-shield, which is still good)

I think that the Shellsling Aerials should be a subtree. The shellsling Fair is interesting in that it's only really usefull to blindside an opponent from behind with a fair while they are above you, this is accomplished by holding the control stick as you fair, you get a cool boomerang effect as squirtle's fantastic air friction reverts all the shellsling momentum, hence the nickname "boomerang".

Shellsling-uair is a fantastic combo extender but i'm not sure what name would fit it
Shuriken

Hydroreversal is a new subtree (and the newest AT), and I haven't really explored it yet, but it obviously belongs in the hydroplane Tree. Sometimes when I'm shellshifting in neutral to bait, the opponent does something that isn't actually very punishable (such as Ike's quickdraw ATs), so this whole Hydroreversal subtree would be a great answer to that

BTW, this hydro-crawl stuff needs it's own thread while we figure it out.
http://smashboards.com/threads/hydro-crawl-hydro-reversal-at-exploratory-thread.361694/

 

[_Pixel_]

Awesome work Daft!

I'm thinking about making some quick GIFs of these techs, any suggestions? Something along the lines of this I made the other day.

 

[Daftatt]

Awesome work Daft!

I'm thinking about making some quick GIFs of these techs, any suggestions? Something along the lines of this I made the other day.

Those are very sexy

 

[Priority Fire]

Bumping up this thread because I'm trying to learn all of Squirtle's AT, and because the Amish on the boards should see this if they haven't yet.

I also have a question: the changelog for 3.5 said they removed Squirtle's Fsmash SS glitch - does anyone know precisely what move that was called in the OP?

 

[Daftatt]

Bumping up this thread because I'm trying to learn all of Squirtle's AT, and because the Amish on the boards should see this if they haven't yet.

I also have a question: the changelog for 3.5 said they removed Squirtle's Fsmash SS glitch - does anyone know precisely what move that was called in the OP?

hydroplane F-smash was the normal C-stick method where squirtle f-smashed facing away from the direction he was sliding. Then there was forward hydroplane F-smash where you either hydropivoted into F-smash or used a very specific C-stick placement to get squirtle to F-smash facing the direction he was sliding.

You can still kind of do these in 3.5, especially normal hydroplane F-smash (where you face backwards). But they just aren't as long, or stupidly fast sliding.