Squirtle Advanced Techniques, Strategies, and Cool Names for Things - Video Added!

[RaphaelRobo]

The problem, in my opinion, is that there are just too many words to remember. I can remember Hydro-whatever, and I can remember SS. Saying RAR SS isn't that hard to understand, and saves the trouble of combining to techniques that any character can do into one word no one will remember. I mean, it's fine if you guys want to use these terms, but don't expect me (and probably some other Squirtle mains) to remember all of these. I'll always call an RAR SS a RAR SS, and whenever the fancy term is used, I'll have to ask what it is.

Also, I'm pretty sure the purpose of this topic isn't to talk about Squirtle, but to talk about names.

I'll have some videos from this weekend's tournament that I can talk about. I had an MM with Stingers last week, but decided to go all Ganon since I won't be able to play Squirtle at Evo, so I doubt you guys would care much about that video.

 

[dettadeus]

it's also to discuss applications of techniques/strategies/things with cool names, as well as post about discoveries of new ones (if we ever find more)

i'll organize the op

 

[bubbaking]

Just let me know what I should add to the Squirtle-specific section of THIS thread. It's only abbreviations, but it would help with all the jargon being tossed around here.

 

[traffic.]

Hydro_____ : any move used by squirtle with the momentum boost of his dash pivot.
Shellshift: Squirtle gains 4% knockback armor by hiding in his shell, applies to his pivot animation and withdraw attack.

just that easy ^o^

 

[dettadeus]

You also have a hitbox dealing 3% and low knockback (which can force knockdowns on some characters at higher percents) during a ShellShift.

I guess an abbreviation for Hydroplane would be HP?

 

[Translucent]

Yeah hydroplane is hp and shell shift is ss.

 

[bubbaking]

Alright, I'll add HP. Also, what are thoughts on just adding "H-" as a prefix abbreviation in front of hydro-techs?

Also, don't forget that SS' hitbox pulls the opponent towards Squirt.

 

[traffic.]

H-tech sounds good, I think we've settled at the appropriate reduction of terms for general discussion. If the discussion is specifically about a combination of moves, then there's no reason not to phrase it however deems appropriate, but for universal usage, HP/SS covers the difference between pivot > ____ and pivot > no _____ pretty well.

 

[dettadeus]

Doesn't pull the opponent towards Squirtle if you ShellStall. ;P

 

[Ayo]

I've been playing squirtle almost exclusively since I started playing project m. I found out a move I had no idea existed while playing the other day, not sure if anyone else has been using it. I havn't seen anyone talking about this and it is really a key part of squirtles game.

You can withdraw and jump cancel an up b directly out of it. You can do it at any point in the air, or jump cancel it off the ground. He comes out of it very fast going up and to the right, but it is much faster than his typical up b. When done quickly when recovering you get something alot like a space animal side b, except curved in its own shape. You often do it when recovering from higher than the stage, side b toward the stage then immediately hit up then up b. You fall a bit while going right then go up as soon as you hit up b and to the right really fast. When you land on the stage there isnt much lag, and it is a really important way to mix up your recovery. You can also hit people with it, but it isnt like a typical up b when you do hit them. You can do it any time during withdraw.

It is amazingly useful, you can get back to grab an edge if you aim it properly much much faster than using up b, although it doesnt take you as far as a normal up b.

 

[dettadeus]

It's called Aqua Jet. Just part of the move.

http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=zenigame

 

[Ayo]

Ah good to know what it is called. I watched like 5 squirtle videos and didn't see anyone use it, it is seriously good.

 

[traffic.]

it has a sweetspot if you hit someone from below with it, great for catching people on platforms

 

[bubbaking]

It's also really good at edge cancelling off platforms. If I had vids up, you'd see me use it a lot, but alas, I have no vids up.......

 

[traffic.]

Yeah, absolutely a great return to the fight if you can catch the edge with it.

How are everyone's combos coming along? I've been working with l-canceled dair > utilt as an awesome setup for aerial combos or an usmash if they're at kill %. and i've had decent success getting the timing of SH bubble > withdraw > nair(or wg) > jab3 > f-smash tightened up.

 

[Ayo]

SH bubble -> ground bubble ->withdraw-> nair -> downsmash then follow them. You can very often land a bubble on the ground after hitting them with a SH bubble then continue a combo from there.

 

[Kyu Puff]

D-air -> u-tilt is definitely one of the more reliable set-ups.

I haven't been able to pull off any really big combos. Usually I'll just get a few u-airs and the combo will end. He can more mileage out of bubble -> techchase, but it's not 100% reliable. D-throw also sets up a good tech chase against fastfallers.

Edit: How DIable is ss -> grab? It might be cool to incorporate shellshift into techchases for some extra damage and control over space, but I haven't used it much so I don't know how well it works.

 

[bubbaking]

I know SS > pivot JC grab works really well at low-mid %'s.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Shellshift has some weird properties against grounded opponents. I tried doing d-throw -> shellshift backwards to cover no tech/tech in place/tech roll forward, but when they don't tech it doesn't seem to work. It will pull them towards you, but they'll still be on the ground (I guess it doesn't have enough knockback to pop them into the air?) and they can immediately use any of their get-up options. I'm gonna have to mess around with it more.

Other things I'm messing around with:

-withdraw during aerial combos
-d-air to grab
-using the water from d-smash to edgeguard (usually bubble is better, but sometimes the water can pull them under the stage, and it has armor)

 

[dettadeus]

Shellshift has some weird properties against grounded opponents. I tried doing d-throw -> shellshift backwards to cover no tech/tech in place/tech roll forward, but when they don't tech it doesn't seem to work. It will pull them towards you, but they'll still be on the ground (I guess it doesn't have enough knockback to pop them into the air?) and they can immediately use any of their get-up options. I'm gonna have to mess around with it more.

The SS hitbox probably hits after the reset window. In this situation:
-The hitbox's knockback is not strong enough or at a high enough angle to force people out of the grounded state
-It doesn't force a reset because it hits too late in the missed tech animation (and SS probably has knockback that is too strong for a normal reset anyways)
-The opponent can immediately use any of their getup options rather than being put into forced getup because they are left in the grounded state (or put back into it depending on their trajectory)

I would probably try Dsmash or SH Bubble to follow up the SS hitting them in this case. Bubble covers getup, roll away and getup attack. Dsmash covers getup attack and possibly roll towards.
Or you could jump right after you see the SS hit and then Withdraw to track their getup choice. The only option this wouldn't cover is getup attack since IIRC most getup attacks deal more than our 4% armor.

 

[traffic.]

withdraw in the air is awesome, learning to aim it and using it in quick bursts to catch a missed chase can finish em off and it looks so damned cool. it's also great to zip around with fast cancels if you have the room, great for resets and keepaway.

dair grab is a decent setup, i just started playing around with it in this last practice sesh. cant tell if i like the option more than utilt setups for aerial combos, but more grabs is a good thing, and it's an option to mix up so that is yay.

dsmash is a little dangerous for an edgeguard imo, just because it doesnt space you far enough away to avoid hard punish from invin frames, i've definitely had better success with bubbles, but if they get sloppy and sit there for too long it does nerf the jump and drop them to force a tech or up b, but again you end up really close to the edge and i've had a hard time pulling it off consistently.

edit- on the subject of covering getups from ss knockdown, get the SH bubble and you get the free withdraw starter, i find after 2 ss hits the rest are a wash so the bubble resets the knockdown and you continue ******

 

[bubbaking]

Shellshift has some weird properties against grounded opponents. I tried doing d-throw -> shellshift backwards to cover no tech/tech in place/tech roll forward, but when they don't tech it doesn't seem to work. It will pull them towards you, but they'll still be on the ground (I guess it doesn't have enough knockback to pop them into the air?) and they can immediately use any of their get-up options. I'm gonna have to mess around with it more.

The SS still hits them though, right? If so, try SS > SH B-reverse Bubble.

The SS hitbox probably hits after the reset window. In this situation:
-The hitbox's knockback is not strong enough or at a high enough angle to force people out of the grounded state
-It doesn't force a reset because it hits too late in the missed tech animation (and SS probably has knockback that is too strong for a normal reset anyways)

This makes no sense. If the SS' KB isn't strong enough to knock the opponent into an aerial state from a knocked down position, then why would SS have KB that is too strong for a reset?

 

[dettadeus]

It sends at too low an angle to send them into an aerial state.
If Falcon Punch sent at an angle of 0 degrees, could it jab reset?

 

[bubbaking]

You could DI it to stay in the air, though. Remember, resetting is based on KB in Brawl/P:M. If a move has too much KB to reset with, then odds are you can either DI that move to stay in the air or you can tech off of it. Can you tech off of an SS on a grounded opponent?

 

[Lyric]

thanks for teaching me how to hydroplane! someday I'll be part of the squirtle squad

 

[Blaughable]

Just picked up project M. Loving squirtle, his hydroplaning helps fill the Sheik DACA hole in my project M heart. What's the point of the hydropivot. It has crazy range but has anyone used it in a match before? I'm also getting a kick out of SS into pivot grab as a pivotpivot grab. It just totally mind F*&(s your opponent.

 

[traffic.]

the majority of HP options are totally useless for the inputs and time required to execute, but the speed you can approach with a boost grab or sliding smash makes up for the rest. hydropivoting is an amusing enough animation break, but it may as well be considered a taunt as it has nearly no strategic boons in the way moonwalking does. the distance is barely worth mentioning since squirtle is already obscenely mobile, and most of his other movement tricks actually have options and applications.

with the SS knockdown, great for setting up grabs, as well as SS > SS > hp-usmash for sneaking in kills or damage opportunities.

 

[dettadeus]

you can hydropivot into an instant ledge grab, but then again you can also wavedash out of shellshift (shellslingdashthingwhatever) to the same effect

technically you can perform any action out of a hydropivot so it basically would make any move possible to perform with a hydroplane-level slide

 

[Translucent]

I remember the first time I did a wavedash out of shell-shift to grab the ledge. It was a magical feeling.

 

[bubbaking]

Just picked up project M. Loving squirtle, his hydroplaning helps fill the Sheik DACA hole in my project M heart. What's the point of the hydropivot. It has crazy range but has anyone used it in a match before? I'm also getting a kick out of SS into pivot grab as a pivotpivot grab. It just totally mind F*&(s your opponent.

Well, if the hydropivot is as simple as it 'sounds', then I'm guessing that it could be quite useful. About the "pivotpivot grab", there's actually a combo incorporating that. SS sucks the opponent towards you, so at low-mid %'s, you can SS > pivot grab and the SS hit will combo into the grab. I do it all the time. I find it to be easiest on spacees and other FFers because they stay near the ground when hit.

True Hydroplane

HydroPivot

Going by what I'm reading in the OP, a True Hydroplane is impossible in P:M but a HydroPivot is much better anyway because it covers a lot more distance (if I understood everything correctly).

hydropivoting is an amusing enough animation break, but it may as well be considered a taunt as it has nearly no strategic boons in the way moonwalking does. the distance is barely worth mentioning since squirtle is already obscenely mobile, and most of his other movement tricks actually have options and applications.

If I am understanding the OP correctly, then the hydropivot lets Squirtle cover a great distance a lot faster than he normally could straight out of running in the other direction. He can surprise his opponent or punish an action from almost the whole stage away. Of course, this would also let him switch from defensive retreating to offensive destruction with ease. I'm still not sure that I understand the tech, though.

you can hydropivot into an instant ledge grab

How does this work? This sounds nothing like a slingdash. Could I have a detailed explanation?

Edit: Actually, I just watched your Squirt tech vid. The hydropivot goes a lot further than a slingdash and can secure a successful ledgegrab from a LOT further away. This has really good potential ledgehog applications, perhaps after sending an opponent across (and off) the stage at high %'s.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

What's the name of the AT for DThrow > Squirtle Shades?

 

[traffic.]

I was also under the impression it was a locked in animation, i will spend some time with it and try it during practise tonight. will post findings, hopefully as useful as it sounds.

 

[dettadeus]

You can cancel any part of the standing pivot animation into any other action, similarly to how you can cancel any part of the running pivot animation into a jump.

This is like... if you do an Ftilt in the opposite direction you're facing. You just immediately cancel the pivot animation.

 

[Blaughable]

Came to post that I thought I had discovered hydropivot ledgegrab. Looks like it's well know. SS, Wavedash ledgegrab works wonderfully, but this is a universal mechanic isn't it?

 

[JayMan-X]

yeah, everybody can turn around and then wavedash backwards. Squirtle's is the best because his turnaround actually launches him forwards before he starts going backwards.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

God this character suuuuuxxxxxxxxx

 

[bubbaking]

Dislike, lolz!

 

[Rat]

Been in the lab with squirtle a lot this week. One trick I found was that Squirtle can climb walls with his cling.

If you press jump from a Cling, you'll DJ regardless of if you've used your DJ or not. Apparently this thread is about making names so let's call it Cling Jump.

If you Cling Jump and hold in, you'll be able to Cling again but lower than the original cling. That's pretty easy to get around though.

If you Cling Jump, Wall Jump and then hold in. You'll stall long enough that you can cling higher.

This essentially refreshes your DJ. So you can climb any vertical wall without needing a DJ.


Stages that this useful:
Castlevania
Yoshi's Island
Yoshi's Story
Wario Ware Inc.
Final Destination (less so cause it curves in.)


This is super good on Castlevania btw. If you just hold in and you'll probably reach the wall before you die. Then you can just climb back up. =)

This also extends squirtle's off stage range. He can jump farther out there to edgeguard on stages with walls.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, I was aware of that. Good stuff! (^_^) This also lets Squirt recover from a lot further away. On walled stages, it's often better to just sideB cancel to increase your horizontal momentum and then keep drifting towards the wall without upBing or DJing or anything. You have a lot more options that way and can even turn the tables on your opponent with something like a cling jump > sideB or bair.

I've been playing a LOT more Squirtle recently and I am completely convinced that Squirtle is a High Tier character. I am also very certain that Water Gun is anything but useless, both charged and uncharged. For instance, charged WG (away from the stage) boosts Squirt's recovery a very good deal. Water Gun is also really good for taking out 'linear-ish' chars, like Peach when she's floating, or harassing Jiggs when she's recovering or planking. Water Gun also niftily beats out a lot of projectiles. Squirt is part of that small group of chars (Diddy, Squirt, etc.) in which absolutely every move is actually very useful and has more than just a 'little niche', like Fox's fair or something. I love this about his design. Everything is just so good and important. It makes him seem like a very effective/efficient character.

 

[Translucent]

Really Bubba? What are your reasons for thinking him as a high character? Yes, all of his moves are usable,and he has good mix-ups. But, he slides, mediocre recovery, not a ton of range, low weight, hard to get kills, ect.