Social Spoon Sword Social

[Krysco]

I can vouch about the utility Pokemon Ride. The implementation in X/Y was poor and very limited to certain areas, but the potential it introduced initially has been fully realized in S/M. You summon them pretty much anywhere and anytime except inside buildings. Charizard replaces Fly entirely, Tauros and Stoutland replace your bike with the former charging at high speed and breaking rocks in a similar way as Rock Smash while the latter doubles as a Dowsing Machine. Lapras is for surfing and fishing pokemon while on it's back. Those are the ones I've gotten so far, but from what I've seen Sharpedo surfs faster, jumps and breaks rocks which may allow you to reach other areas and Mudsdale climbs rocky terrain (I've yet to get this one). It's one of the best features in the entirety of the pokemon series.
Speaking of fishing, you now can only fish in certain spots in bodies on water. When you get close, a buttom prompt comes up, you press A and start fishing. No need to rummage into your bag to manually use the fishing rod like before. You can do so while riding on Lapras or on the edge of a lake, as long as the spot allows for fishing of course. At times, you also get items like Heart Scales and Pearls instead of pokemon.

Are the riding Pokemon obtained purely for that purpose? You're only so far in and if you have access to a Charizard, Stoutland, Tauros and Lapras for combat as well, that sounds op af @.@. Granted, Lapras and Tauros could be as low as level 1. Sounds neat at least how they kept natural obstacles like water and rocks but got rid of HMs and instead, essentially gave you abilities to take care of the obstacles without having to limit your team. The fishing being limited to certain spots seems a bit odd. Hopefully you get something every time you fish to compensate be it a Pokemon or an item. Not having to rely on limited on-land items or rng Luvdiscs for heart scales sounds nice. Still rng but no longer do you have to catch a Pokemon to get a useful item. Having water obstacles like rocks and possibly things to need to jump over sounds awesome since Alola(?) has lots of water much like Hoenn but Hoenn was pretty much just hold direction to go through water and get stopped every few seconds by a Pokemon.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

The rideable pokemon are entirely separate from your team pokemon, which is convenient because you don't have to make space for a team member that you are going to use only for surfing or smashing a rock. The in-universe explanation is that there is special ride service where you can call those pokemon when you need a ride. As soon as you do so, they get summoned instantly to your location. Pressing the Y button brings up the menu for Poke Rides and they can be mapped to the directional pad. So yeah, I don't have any of those pokemon on my team save for a Tauros which I caught at a ranch, but it's a different one from the one I ride.

A minor complaint I would have about wild pokemon summoning another is that sometimes when you are trying to capture a poke, it will summon a partner. Sometimes it will fail, sometimes it will succeed. You cannot throw a poke ball when there are two opposing pokemon on the field so you have to take one down. The problem I had one time against a Magby is that after I managed to bring down it's partner, it would summon another one at the end of literally every turn which made the battle unnecessary long and annoyed me a bit. Worst of all is that despite having a red health bar, my great balls and ultra balls failed inexplicably very often. At the end, it summoned a Magmar and I captured that one instead but it was an ordeal. This is the only time this happened to me but this case was more of an outliar because the wild pokemon had the moves smokescreen and fire spin, a combination that made it very annoying for me to deal with.

 

[Krysco]

Oh, so it's something any wild Pokemon can do? Or at least some? Huh, that actually makes sense too. Creature is getting attacked and is losing, calls for help. Also could be great for exp grinding, especially if a Pokemon like Audino can do it. Though that catching limitation is and always has been a pain. I think gen IV introduced the whole 2 wild Pokemon at once idea though it may have been gen V and that limitation has never been fixed. Don't even get why. From a realistic stand point, the worst that could happen would be a Pokemon you don't want, getting in the way but if realism were really an issue then Poke balls would have a chance of missing. Heck, you can catch a Pokemon with 2 on the field in Colleseum and XD and that should be even less possible since the catches in those games are reliant on the snag machine identifying the Pokemon.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Now that the Showdown metagame is starting to stabilize a little bit...holy frick, 100% Zygarde is more terrifying then even I imagined from it's stats. It takes forever to bring down, can set up DD and Coil like nobody's business, access to extreme speed, and a move that's basically earthquake but super effective against Skarmory.

Having to get under 50% health doesn't even actually hold it back, thanks to how the transformation mechanics work. It only maintains damage taken, so an attack that'd 2HKO an aura break Zygarde will only be a 3HKO or 4HKO on one with power construct. Even 10% form can screw you over by using its high speed and substitute to get up some free coils before its transformation after forcing a swap out with its great typing. I had no way to deal with that - my defensive mons were set up fodder(even the likes of Mega Venusaur with its respectable special attack) and my only offensive mon(Tapu Koko) couldn't deal with it behind a sub, even though it could usually outspeed it and bring it down with HP Ice.

They didn't make the same mistake with this guy that they made with Black Kyurem - I doubt this is staying in OU when it's so hard to stop.

Is there any chance that the Focus Sash was involved? Also, I wouldn't exactly jump the gun about Zygarde becoming a uber just yet, since with only a base 100 attack for all of its formes, it's not exactly an offensive powerhouse without Coil or Dragon Dance. And since Weavile does outspeed the 10% Forme, it can downright wipe out the 10% Forme with a single Ice Punch if the Focus Sash isn't present.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just edited this in my previous post but here goes anyways.

Spoiler: Very mild spoilers

I've cleared three trials already, but the second one was really something. You face against the Totem Pokemon Wishiwashi in school form, as soon as the battle begins it augments it's defense and because of it's natural bulk it became hard to take down. I attempted to use Dire Hit and Razor Leaf combo to power through but it took less damage than expected. The real kicker for me was when it summoned a partner a second time, an Alomomola, who started restoring HP with Heal Pulse. It was also raining so the pokemon's water attacks dealt more damage. I had to take down the Alomomola first if I wanted to stand a chance and while trying Wishiwashi ended knocking out two of my pokemon. I had to play more conservatively which is something I've rarely done in previous pokemon games. I really loved it. I welcomed the change of pace that it ended up giving me.
Edit: One more thing about that battle. Wishiwashi loved using Soak on me, turning my pokemon into water types thus losing my STAB. Alomomola also had Helping Hand.
By the way, at a certain point you battle the Captain of the first trial, Ilima. The second battle against him also took me by surprise since he used his Z-power to increase the stats on his Gumshoos, which took out some of my pokemon in one or two hits. So I would say that I feel that there is more challenge this time around.

Another edit: I've heard from some people that the Lurantis Totem battle is actually harder.

Edit: About the Exp. Share, not entirely sure if it works exactly the same as in X/Y. I have used it to level up my weaker pokemon, but so far I haven't been horribly overleveled. And yes, you still get Exp. from catching pokes.

My memory is fuzzy, but I've heard that Sun & Moon use Black & White's EXP scaling which 6th gen didn't. I imagine you don't get an early Lucky Egg either, though you can still use Refresh (Amie) to gain a passive exp buff. Am I getting any of this right?

 

[ZephyrZ]

What I've heard about the exp.share(even though I don't have the game yet) is that it's still an easy mode and blatantly OP. I've heard that it's good if you like to rotate several teams of Pokemon, but eh. At least it can be turned off.

I also think I remember something about Gen 5 experience mechanics.

Is there any chance that the Focus Sash was involved? Also, I wouldn't exactly jump the gun about Zygarde becoming a uber just yet, since with only a base 100 attack for all of its formes, it's not exactly an offensive powerhouse without Coil or Dragon Dance. And since Weavile does outspeed the 10% Forme, it can downright wipe out the 10% Forme with a single Ice Punch if the Focus Sash isn't present.

No, my team didn't have a Weavile. I had specs Tapu Koko, but again, it managed to get a sub up and I was scared to swap it in. A normal HP Ice or Dazzling Gleam would of brought it down, but it was safely tucked behind a sub and could of retaliated with a powerful Thousand Arrows.

What makes a pokemon Uber isn't that there isn't counter and checks - all pokemon have those, and I have managed to bring a number of Zygardes down. But back when Showdown was updated, and there wasn't a proper OU ladder yet, I was also taking down Solgaleos and Lunalaas left and right. The thing that makes them uber is that there aren't enough reliable ways. Weavile can outspeed a 10% coil set, but it can't safely swap in and a 50% dragon dance set might be able to stop it. And if the Weavile has been weakened before hand, all it might take is an extreme speed, which out prioritizes Ice Shard, btw. It absolutely destroys defensive teams and still remains a serious threat to offensive ones.

Finally, I should mention that Giratina only has 100 base attack and specail attack in its altered form, but it still manages to be uber for its 150/150/150 base defenses. Sure, its typing is even better than Zygarde's(which is still pretty good typing), but it still goes to show 150 base attack/special attack isn't the only way to become OP. 100 is still very respectable in any stat a pokemon has it in. It's not really worth listing it as one of Zygarde's weaknesses when it's still adequate enough for it to function.

 

[meleebrawler]

What I've heard about the exp.share(even though I don't have the game yet) is that it's still an easy mode and blatantly OP. I've heard that it's good if you like to rotate several teams of Pokemon, but eh. At least it can be turned off.

I can only shake my head at this kind of thinking. Setting aside that Exp. Share alone isn't the sole culprit for gen 6's ease of levelling (the aforementioned Egg and Amie, but more importantly, the overhaul of all participating Pokemon getting full Exp instead of dividing it), any RPG can be made incredibly easy with an inordinate amount of grinding. All the share does is provide a convenient way of levelling multiple Pokemon. It's a tool, not a difficulty toggle, the choice of whether you want to level multiple Pokemon or not is up to you, and because of this I frequently toggle it on and off when needed.

Just don't see how adding "difficulty" in the form of time spent grinding adds anything meaningful. All it proves is that you have more time to kill than the average player, like your uncapped Hunter Rank in Monster Hunter, and that one actually does do something for you, just not for long. The only good way to provide added difficulty in an RPG is to make your own challenges and restrictions, like NOT fighting everything you see to keep your levels low, or the ever-famous Nuzlocke.

 

[Krysco]

In my eyes, the gen VI exp share was an easy mode for an already easy game. As someone who tends to pick out my entire team before playing, save for on the first playthrough, I did a playthrough of Y with it on and X with it off and my team's overall level was higher in my Y playthrough. I always put the lowest leveled Pokemon in the front to have a frequent rotation and a balanced team in terms of level and with the exp share, there were some Pokemon that never had to be put in the front like my Salamence.

Plus, once upon a time, Pokemon did have a hard mode that could be unlocked. Was in Black/White 2 and was more easily accessible in the former. Raised the level of every trainer Pokemon and gave every gym leader an extra Pokemon and revised movesets. No idea why it was never brought back when Zelda introduced the same concept and kept it and Fire Emblem went ape**** by adding Lunatic and Lunatic+ and kept it. Different games made by different people, sure, but there is little to no harm done by adding a hard mode for veteran players looking for a challenge.

 

[meleebrawler]

Because it just goes back to what I was saying about Exp Share off vs. on; it only increases the amount of time it takes to get to levels that allow you to comfortably beat everything. You increase opponent's levels, you respond in kind and the actual difficulty winds up being about the same, you just spend more time grinding. And about challenge mode... better movesets I'll grant, but remember before that when gym leaders had their full team to begin with? The only other way to developers to increase difficulty... is to cheat. Whether mild like Totem Pokemon's increased stats, or major like illegal movesets or evolved mons, abusing RNG are all things done by devs to compensate for AI never being able to compete with human opponents (short of simply letting them read your commands and choose the appropriate response every time...).

As opposed to Fire Emblem, where Awakening DLC, Birthright and Sacred Stones notwithstanding, you CAN'T grind to your heart's content (and the cheating aspect crops up again in Lunatic+). Not to mention the whole permadeath thing. If you want your Pokemon game to be harder in a tangible way, don't blame the share; the only surefire way to not gain too many levels is to NOT battle.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Finally, I should mention that Giratina only has 100 base attack and specail attack in its altered form, but it still manages to be uber for its 150/150/150 base defenses. Sure, its typing is even better than Zygarde's(which is still pretty good typing), but it still goes to show 150 base attack/special attack isn't the only way to become OP. 100 is still very respectable in any stat a pokemon has it in. It's not really worth listing it as one of Zygarde's weaknesses when it's still adequate enough for it to function.

Altered Forme Giratina's defenses aren't "that" high; its base defense and special defense values are only 120. And while either forme of Giratina can effectively utilize a Calm Mind moveset, the Origin Forme will often be the one who hits harder with its STAB attacks, thanks to the Griseous Orb boosting its Ghost-type and Dragon-type attacks.

In regards to Zygarde, while it's true that having a huge weakness against Ice-type attacks may just be an inconvenience, some Ice-types are far worse for it than Weavile; Avalugg also deserves a mention, thanks to its base 184 defense and access to Avalanche.

 

[Krysco]

You don't have to grind though. Pokemon has pretty much never had a grinding issue save for Yellow's beginning and nuzlockes, the latter being a playerbase created thing anyways. If you use few Pokemon and are high leveled enough with the exp share turned off, turning it on is making the game easier. As for gym leaders having their full team, I just checked and I'm actually surprised by the team count that Black/White 2 had. First 2 gym leaders have 2 and the rest have 3 with the numbers being 3 and 4 respectively in challenge mode. Pretty sure in older generations, later gym leaders already had 4. That being said, at least Black/White 2 provide that and with higher levels and more threatening movesets to boot. Elite four members have been doing the whole 'add a member' or 'revise team' thing for a while. I will say that the exp share isn't the only reason gen VI was easy but it provided a means of making an already easy game even easier, regardless of its other benefits like the less grinding that you mentioned.

As for the FE comparison, Awakening regardless of dlc allows infinite grinding iirc. Wait a few hours or a day and more enemies spawn on the map. The net gain gets smaller overtime but the option is there. And permadeath can be turned off. I will agree that it cheats since Lunatic and Lunatic+ give the enemies ridiculous stats and extremely overpowered skills randomly. I'm not asking for a Lunatic or Lunatic+ Pokemon option. I'm asking for another challenge mode, preferably refined and available from the start and not half locked to one version. Especially since the experience changes such as it not being split when more than one Pokemon participate and gaining exp for catching Pokemon made an already easy series even easier.

I am also aware that I'm quite the minority when it comes to this. More casual players are fine with the difficulty since they have fun catching and battling Pokemon and hardly notice any difficulty change between games and competitive players like the changes that help them build their team faster and more efficiently. Just sucks that anyone wanting to focus on the single player experience but also want a challenge have to handicap themselves rather than the enemy actually getting smarter. Heck, that's one thing Lunatic mode does improve in Awakening. It does make the AI smarter.

 

[meleebrawler]

One more thing: no matter how hard the campaign may be... nothing except the extremely early game before stuff is unlocked is going to stop someone trading in a lv. 100 from somewhere and steamrolling everything, obedience be damned. Actually, now that I mention it, how does Sun & Moon manage that without gyms and badges?

 

[ZephyrZ]

^I think it's based on the number of trials beaten. I've heard someone say their Ash-Greninja wasn't listening to them.

Altered Forme Giratina's defenses aren't "that" high; its base defense and special defense values are only 120. And while either forme of Giratina can effectively utilize a Calm Mind moveset, the Origin Forme will often be the one who hits harder with its STAB attacks, thanks to the Griseous Orb boosting its Ghost-type and Dragon-type attacks.

Yeah, that as a slip up on my part. I was going off memory there. But if it was only origin form that was considered broken, they would of just baned that.

In regards to Zygarde, while it's true that having a huge weakness against Ice-type attacks may just be an inconvenience, some Ice-types are far worse for it than Weavile; Avalugg also deserves a mention, thanks to its base 184 defense and access to Avalanche.

The fact that Avalugg is kind of overrated by a lot of players aside(horrible, horrible defensive typing), having a random ice type isn't something we could or should expect every team to have. Every single time a pokemon gets suspect tested, someone brings up that argument. "It's countered by x y or z". Even when that is true, there has to be a good variety of pokemon able to keep it in check so that people aren't too restricted in team building and are likewise free to build their teams to their liking.

Besides, Avalugg isn't reliable either. It falls short of OHKOing it if it decides to stick with a coil set. It's actually set up fodder for coil variants.

0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. +1 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 168-204 (41.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. +2 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 132-156 (32.4 - 38.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And that's just its 50% form. If I plug in its buffed HP into the calculator...

0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. +2 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 132-156 (21.1 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

At only +2, you're already failing to break the Complete Form's subs. That's how ridiculous this thing's defense is.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

ZephyrZ : If you're not investing EVs into Attack for Avalugg, then it does make some sense. But remember that Avalugg has Curse to boost its own attack and defense, which can negate Zygarde's attack and defense boosts if critical hits don't occur. And since Avalugg also has Sturdy, it can't be 1-hit KO'd, no matter how powered up Zygarde is.

On the other hand, Avalugg does need to predict what Zygarde is going to do, since Avalanche's power only gets doubled if Zygarde damages Avalugg before Avalanche is executed.

On one final note, Zygarde can always target Avalugg's weaker special defense with Draco Meteor or Core Enforcer, so mixed sets can get past Avalugg with less effort than pure physical sets. But again, Sturdy can get in the way, and Avalanche is a guaranteed 1-hit KO if its power is doubled, Avalugg has 252 EVs in Attack, and Zygarde doesn't have enough EV investment in HP or Defense.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Altered Forme Giratina's defenses aren't "that" high; its base defense and special defense values are only 120. And while either forme of Giratina can effectively utilize a Calm Mind moveset, the Origin Forme will often be the one who hits harder with its STAB attacks, thanks to the Griseous Orb boosting its Ghost-type and Dragon-type attacks.

I wouldn't say that, 120 defenses is pretty high and it's paired with a humongous 150 HP stat. The altered form is pretty great when you need a wall and unlike Giratina-O, it isn't limited to one item. It can use a bulky stall set with leftovers works pretty fine with Toxic or Will-o-Wisp, and it has pressure which eats the opponents PP fast. It's a pretty good check against Extremespeed Arceus.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I wouldn't say that, 120 defenses is pretty high and it's paired with a humongous 150 HP stat. The altered form is pretty great when you need a wall and unlike Giratina-O, it isn't limited to one item. It can use a bulky stall set with leftovers works pretty fine with Toxic or Will-o-Wisp, and it has pressure which eats the opponents PP fast. It's a pretty good check against Extremespeed Arceus.

Yeah Giratina's Alered Forme can be used in various ways, thanks to the fact that it has no item restrictions. All that I'm just saying is that if you want to go for a more offensive moveset for it, the Origin Forme would hit harder with its STAB, especially with the added 20% boost from the Griseous Orb.

Either way, whether you want a good defense or a good offense, Giratina can cover either department, and even though the Ghost/Dragon-type has 5 weaknesses, at least it doesn't have any 4x weaknesses, so it's not completely screwed against Ice-type attacks.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Oh yeah, Avalugg does have curse, doesn't it? I think it'd actually probably win a curse/coil war, since it learns recover while Zygarde is forced to use leftovers(or the odd resttalk set, but that curse war would just be really ugly).

Curse Avalugg would be a lot more viable if its special defense wasn't garbage. And then there's the power creep making curse sets harder and harder to pull off compared to speedy bulk up or calm mind users...but I digress.

Anyway, I don't think that x4 weakness is enough to hold it back. It's really difficult to OHKO without Ice Stab and/or a ton of power. Weavile can do it, but it's scared of switching in and extreme speed. Most pokemon who make it to ubers go there because they're so powerful they're hard to defend from. Adaptability Mega Lucario, Huge Power Mega Mawile, Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan...but I think Zygarde Complete has what it takes to get their through it's bulk. It has a number of potential, effective ways around its shortcomings, be it through substitute, priority, or stat boosting. What might check on Zygarde set won't check another - that's something it has in common with the likes of Genesect and Proteon Greninja back in gen 6. By the time you figure out what set it's running, it might already be too late - you couldn't count on your one check to do the job.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I should probably mention that Mega Slowbro can also be an issue for Zygarde, simply because Shell Armor prevents any critical hits from landing. And Zygarde would have to raise its attack two stages or more before it has any chance of taking away half of Mega Slowbro's HP with Crunch (assuming that Mega Slowbro's nature is Bold, and it has 252 defense EVs). Whereas, with Mega Slowbro, a single Calm Mind boost, along with 252 special attack EVs, can make Ice Beam a guaranteed 1-hit KO if Zygarde doesn't have enough HP EV investment; Coil isn't going to save Zygarde, since Ice Beam is a special attack.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It looks lie the general consensus on Smogon is that it's too much for OU as well. It's much, much scarier in practice than in theory. It can set up on, and ko, almost anything and it's checks are relatively limited. And it's versatile, so it's consistent checks are even fewer. Mega Slowbro and Unaware Clefable can do the job, sure, but it's not healthy for the metagame if everyone has to run something like that just to be kept from getting swept. That's why we smogonites generally ban pokemon we call "over centralizing" - this pokemon alone has such an impact on the metagame that it lessens team variety and restricts everyones options. If everyone has to have a pokemon that successfully check Zygarde complete almost every time, that's not a lot of options. Then take out the niche ones that aren't usually considered that viable, and that's even fewer.

When you start having to grab specific examples of checks or counters to something, that's not usually a good sign. It happens all the time during a suspect test, and the argument is frequently passed off with a "so what?".

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main thing to keep in mind about Zygarde's Complete Forme is that without a Focus Sash, the odds of getting it to appear aren't very good when you have Ice-type attacks trying to wipe out the 10% or 50% formes. And even then, entry hazards like Stealth Rock can render the Focus Sash useless.

On a side note, Zygarde's options of Dragon-type physical attacks are very limited, since it can only go with Outrage or Dragon Tail. And obviously, Outrage is not the best kind of attack to be using, while Dragon Tail has decreased priority and isn't all that strong.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The main thing to keep in mind about Zygarde's Complete Forme is that without a Focus Sash, the odds of getting it to appear aren't very good when you have Ice-type attacks trying to wipe out the 10% or 50% formes. And even then, entry hazards like Stealth Rock can render the Focus Sash useless.

Not true - it has a few other options. It could run a yache berry or substitute. But even if it doesn't, 50% Zygarde is extremely bulky in its own right. Here's some common ice-type attacks in OU.

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 203-244 (49.8 - 59.9%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 276-328 (67.8 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 284-336 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Weavile and Black-Kyurem are both capable of OHKOing that set, but do remember, they have to swap in first. Pheromosa can as well, but depending on the EV spread, it might be a gamble. And it'd really dislike a +1 extreme speed from a more offensive set.

I'm using a gen 6 set for the calcs, btw, since there aren't any standard smogon sets for gen 7 yet.

0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 136-162 (48.3 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 81-96 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO

Weavile swaps in, breaks the sub, then loses a minimum of 48% of it's health. 58%. Then extreme speed chips off another 29%. 87% of you health. Then life orb saps another 10% - best case scenario, you're stuck with 3% of your health left. That's only if damage fluctuations favor you on the extreme. More likely, you'll either fail to bring Zygarde down or you'll lose your Weavile in the process. It's worse for the likes of Mega Manetric and Tapu Koko - if they swap in on it while it uses a sub, they've already lost.

It's actually incredibly, incredibly easy for Zygarde to find a chance to set up. A random ice move won't always be enough to stop it. Far more then most sweepers, in fact. I've been on the ladder for a good while now, and I've already been screwed over by this thing in a number of different ways. He's not exactly Power Herb Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza, but I'm still 100% confident this guys going to Ubers regardless. He's certainly worse then the likes of Aegislash and Greninja, imo.

On a side note, Zygarde's options of Dragon-type physical attacks are very limited, since it can only go with Outrage or Dragon Tail. And obviously, Outrage is not the best kind of attack to be using, while Dragon Tail has decreased priority and isn't all that strong.

Zygarde doesn't care that much though, because Thousand Arrows is just so good. Only grass types and the rare bug resist it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Still, the main thing to keep in mind is that Zygarde needs to set up a good number of Coil boosts to become threatening on offense. And not every opponent is going to let Zygarde get away with that. Even something like Mega Rayquaza or Mega Gardevoir can weaken Zygarde enough so that it won't be able to take full advantage of the Coil boosts, even after changing into Complete Forme.

For the best chances of survival against physical hits, a set up like the one below could help, but again it is dependent on whom Zygarde is fighting against...

Zygarde (50% Forme)
Nature: Impish
Ability: Power Construct
252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Defense
Thousand Arrows
Stone Edge
Crunch / Extreme Speed
Coil

Choosing between Crunch or Extreme Speed basically depends on if you want an increased priority attack, or something that can deal extra damage against Psychic-types or Ghost-types who aren't named Gengar.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's all about finding the right time to set up. Ice moves may check Super Zygarde but I don't think that's enough to hold it back; several high tier threats have 4x weaknesses anyways. A focus sash also seems like a huge waste on such a bulky poke, so a recovery item would be better. I would also always runs Extremespeed since the increased priority is going to be much more beneficial in the long run. As for the Mega Slowbro matchup, just make sure to bring someone else along that is able to deal with it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You know, it still baffles the mind how people will ban Zygarde's Complete Forme when you have to first set up Coil boosts to even become a lethal threat. Mega Rayquaza doesn't have to work that hard to be a monster.

I've done some experiments with the Pokemon calculator, and some of the results that I got did not favor Zygarde at all. One example involves Froslass, where it has no problem wiping out Zygarde with Ice Beam, while Zygarde needs to do at least one Coil boost for Stone Edge to be a guaranteed 1-hit KO. While a Yache Berry may help Zygarde survive one Ice Beam, it won't be able to take another one, even after changing into Complete Forme. And sadly for Zygarde, Froslass outspeeds its Complete Forme, and is immune to Extreme Speed.

Even a Hydreigon would have no problem Dragon Pulsing Zygarde to death if it hasn't gotten enough Coil boosts in (a +5 Attack Thousand Arrows would guarantee the 1-hit KO).

You definitely need to know which Pokemon to avoid while setting up the Coil boosts. And even some physical attackers who aren't Ice-types may be able to catch Zygarde by surprise if they happen to have Ice Punch in their arsenal.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Speaking of another mon, Alola Ninetales, that thing is amazing or what?
I actually called it when I said months ago that it would probably get Snow Warning, and boy did it did. Fairy and Ice may have their share of weaknesses but the offensive presence is very solid. It can also learn Moonblast and Freeze-Dry thus extending it's coverage to water types as well and OHKOing the likes of Gyarados, Ludicolo, Kingdra and Mega Swampert. It's also pretty darn fast. It gets destroyed by Bullet Punch though, but still you can't ignore what it has going on for it. It also learns Aurora Veil which is a Reflect/Light Screen hybrid that only works in a hailstorm. It can tear Rain teams apart (which are arguably the strongest type of weather until now) by interrupting them with hail and then striking them with Freeze-Dry.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You know, I've been rather curious about Comfey being a good support Pokemon for Zygarde. However, what has been troubling me is if Triage does not increase the priority level of Floral Healing, since that move can really help restore Zygarde's HP after it changes into its Complete Forme. Additionally, Comfey gets Helping Hand, which can power up Thousand Arrows enough so that the power reduction for targeting multiple opponents becomes irrelevant.

The only problem with double battles and triple battles, however, is that more Pokemon could gang up on Zygarde before it has gotten all the Coil boosts that it needs to sweep. Sure you could resort to Dragon Dance instead, but you'd have to invest some of Zygarde's EVs onto its speed stat, and you won't get the accuracy boosting benefits that enable Stone Edge to always hit its mark.

Also, Zygarde may need Comfey's aid for taking down certain Pokemon. Against a Hydreigon, Comfey can weaken it with Dazzling Gleam, and then Zygarde can finish it off with a +1 Attack Extreme Speed. During the process, Comfey can use Floral Healing on Zygarde to restore most of the HP that it lost. If opponents don't have Heal Block, then they could be in for a rough ride if they can't stop Comfey from healing Complete Forme Zygarde's massive HP.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I thought triple and rotation battles were removed in Sun and Moon.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I thought triple and rotation battles were removed in Sun and Moon.

Even if you don't encounter those battle formats in the main story, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't see them in online play and at certain battle facilities.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Even if you don't encounter those battle formats in the main story, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't see them in online play and at certain battle facilities.

It's been mentioned to have been removed here, and serebii.net does not have triple or rotation mentioned as formats here.

Edit: BTW, can someone get me a Genesect code? I have North American 3DS and games, but I'm currently living in Japan. :/

 

[Krysco]

It's been mentioned to have been removed here, and serebii.net does not have triple or rotation mentioned as formats here.

Edit: BTW, can someone get me a Genesect code? I have North American 3DS and games, but I'm currently living in Japan. :/

If codes from Canada work, I can see about getting you one, depending how easy it is to acquire. Gotta go up to EB to pick up Sun and Moon for my sister anyways.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's been mentioned to have been removed here, and serebii.net does not have triple or rotation mentioned as formats here.

I wonder what caused Triple Battles and Rotation Battles to get the boot. I guess one reason is that the amount of Pokemon who are present at the same time can end up causing the game to slow down for standard 3DS owners.

Pokemon X, Y, OmegaRuby, and AlphaSapphire definitely pushed the 3DS to the limit with the Triple Battles and Rotation Battles, and it probably couldn't handle those battle formats AND have two or more trainer models present as well.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

If codes from Canada work, I can see about getting you one, depending how easy it is to acquire. Gotta go up to EB to pick up Sun and Moon for my sister anyways.

Canada works as they use the same region lock as the US.

I wonder what caused Triple Battles and Rotation Battles to get the boot. I guess one reason is that the amount of Pokemon who are present at the same time can end up causing the game to slow down for standard 3DS owners.

Pokemon X, Y, OmegaRuby, and AlphaSapphire definitely pushed the 3DS to the limit with the Triple Battles and Rotation Battles, and it probably couldn't handle those battle formats AND have two or more trainer models present as well.

Yeah, I think that is probably the case. It would be a lot to handle 6 Pokemon and two trainers.

 

[meleebrawler]

Do Battle Royales (4-man-mon free-for-all) show the trainer models?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, I think that is probably the case. It would be a lot to handle 6 Pokemon and two trainers.

The irony of the story, however, is that there can be four Pokemon AND four trainers present at the same time.

Anyway it's rather sad that Triple Battles didn't return, as that pretty much renders all Triple Battle teams useless now.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

If codes from Canada work, I can see about getting you one, depending how easy it is to acquire. Gotta go up to EB to pick up Sun and Moon for my sister anyways.

Also, it's fine if you can't get me one. I also asked my brother.

I like when people I play Smash 4 with in person compliment my Mewtwo. They usually say they haven't played a good Mewtwo player before, but I think of myself as not great but not bad.

 

[TDK]

Been a while since I've posted here, but hey, this is a pretty big event:

Spoiler

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Not to brag, but I randomly got a well-bred Mimikyu with a Jolly nature in Wonder Trade, right after I gave up on finding one.

Edit: Just finished the main story. It was pretty sweet, and the first time in forever I've been invested in the single player's experience of a Pokemon game.
With that said, I was trying to breed a good team... but good Lord, this game makes it hard to get started without having access to Poke Bank. This time around, in order to get a Destiny Knot you need to buy it for 48 BP, and in order to get BP you need play in the Battle Tree or Battle Royal, and in order to win you need a well trained team with good IVs, and in order to accomplish that you need a freakin' Destiny Knot. See the problem? I caught some Ultra Beasts which are pretty strong and used them to obtain BP and finally get the Destiny Knot, but seriously, don't know who thought that was a good idea.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So, um, Zygarde, right?
I'm now a little more familiarized with it, and that thing really is crazy with the insane amount of bulk it gets when changing formes. I got one with a Careful nature, and gave 252 HP, 126 Defense and 126 Sp. Defense but I'm considering shifting the defense EVs to it's sp. defense stat since Zygarde has more trouble handling special attackers rather than physical ones.

 

[TDK]

The ability Power Construct and Aegislash are banned in OU at this point.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm a little surprised Aegislash got a quickban instead of a suspect test, but oh well. it was probably doomed to an eventual ban anyway.

I'm not even slightly surprised about Power Construct, though. As I've been trying to stress in this thread, it's way more ridiculous in practice then it is in theory.