Social Spoon Sword Social

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The main challenge with getting Zygarde to sweep is knowing that you may have opponents who will try to take it down with special attacks. Froslass and Hydreigon may not be uber material, but they have no problem shredding Zygarde to pieces, especially when you consider that a Zygarde without any attack EV investment can't 2-hit KO Hydreigon with Thousand Arrows until it raises its attack to stage 2; whereas for Hydreigon, it can take away more than half of 50% Forme Zygarde's HP with Dragon Pulse, even without stat boosting moves or items. And by the time Zygarde gets the needed attack boosts, Hydreigon will most likely wipe it out before it gets anything going.

In a similar dilemma, Zygarde needs its attack to be raised to stage 1 before it can 1-hit KO Froslass with Stone Edge, and while the Yache Berry may help it survive the first Ice Beam, it can't survive a second one, even when it changes into Complete Forme.

But when it comes to physical defense, Zygarde can definitely be a problem for physical sweepers if they don't have the proper moves, especially if a setup like the one below is used.

Zygarde 50% Forme
Nature: Impish
Ability: Power Construct
Item: Yache Berry
EV Spread: 252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Defense
Moves: Thousand Arrows / Stone Edge / Extreme Speed / Coil

And to add to the threats, Zygarde and Comfey can be a nasty duo in double battles, where Comfey can heal Zygarde with Floral Healing, and power up Zygarde's attacks with Helping Hand. Also, Comfey can always use Dazzling Gleam to weaken opponents while Zygarde is boosting its stats with Coil; that can set the stage for Zygarde to deliver the finishing blow.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Personally, I would run a Careful set with 252 HP and 252 Sp. Def. You are going to boost your defense with Coil anyways, so the def. investment isn't particularly needed. My set has Sleep Talk alongside Thousand Arrows and Coil.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Personally, I would run a Careful set with 252 HP and 252 Sp. Def. You are going to boost your defense with Coil anyways, so the def. investment isn't particularly needed. My set has Sleep Talk alongside Thousand Arrows and Coil.

In the end, choosing between defense or special defense all comes down to your personal preference.

 

[Murlough]

Been a while since I've posted here, but hey, this is a pretty big event:

Spoiler

View attachment 121325

That luck though O.o did you masuda for it?

Also I know its late but I haven't been here in awhile.

 

[TDK]

That luck though O.o did you masuda for it?

Also I know its late but I haven't been here in awhile.

I SOS chained for it. Took about 3 days.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Nothing makes me more nervous then fighting a half-decent Cloud main. One small mess up with Mewtwo, and it can all be over in a second. I almost think Charizard might have a better match up. Sure, his huge hurtbox makes him easy to juggle and frametrap, but at least he can kind of juggle Cloud as well and then cheese him. Zard's F-throw, B-throw, Flamethrower, D-Smash and F-Smash are all great for that.

I guess Mewtwo would theoretically still be better if you played perfectly, but I don't play perfectly at all.

Ignore that I just copy/pasted this from the Charizard social. Both threads need more activity.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Nothing makes me more nervous then fighting a half-decent Cloud main. One small mess up with Mewtwo, and it can all be over in a second. I almost think Charizard might have a better match up. Sure, his huge hurtbox makes him easy to juggle and frametrap, but at least he can kind of juggle Cloud as well and then cheese him. Zard's F-throw, B-throw, Flamethrower, D-Smash and F-Smash are all great for that.

I guess Mewtwo would theoretically still be better if you played perfectly, but I don't play perfectly at all.

Ignore that I just copy/pasted this from the Charizard social. Both threads need more activity.

Believe it or not, I have an easier time on Cloud by using DK. Despite sharing the same problems of the other heavies, DK has good air mobility which helps me fend off against Cloud in the air and he can easily gimp him when he is off stage.

 

[C3CC]

Guys, I have a question. Why does Mewtwo's Teleport act weird in Dreamland's main platform? If I teleport horizontally, he always gets the momentum you get when you appear in the air. It only happens here, why? Is there a way to change this?

 

[Krysco]

That happens with a number of directional recoveries like Zelda's, Palutena's and Mii Swordfighter's custom up b. No idea why it happens and I don't recall if angling it down fixes it or not.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

You know what pushes my buttons? That when discussing pokemon viability, X person says Y pokemon is bad because "it's weak to this and that" and that's it. There is no kind of elaboration whatsoever in the other tools the pokemon has such as moveset, stats, ability, niche, etc.
Recently, I've been advocating for Alola Ninetales because I think it is a good pokemon and I have very good reasons to believe so, but when detractors come by they just say it's bad because it's weak to fire and steel. No mention whatsoever that Fairy/Ice alongside Freeze Dry has very good coverage extending to Dark, Flying, Dragon, Ground, Fighting, Grass & Water types; that it has a very useful niche in the form of Snow Warning + Aurora Veil utility or that it has a decent movepool in Encore & Moonblast and the aforementioned Freeze Dry & Aurora Veil...

 

[DJBor]

THE RETURN.

(After a very long journey across SmashBoards, Legendary DJXYZ returns to the Mewtwo social with a new name and a new main. Most of the thread does not remember him.)

 

[Sonicninja115]

THE RETURN.

(After a very long journey across SmashBoards, Legendary DJXYZ returns to the Mewtwo social with a new name and a new main. Most of the thread does not remember him.)

Hi.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You know what pushes my buttons? That when discussing pokemon viability, X person says Y pokemon is bad because "it's weak to this and that" and that's it. There is no kind of elaboration whatsoever in the other tools the pokemon has such as moveset, stats, ability, niche, etc.
Recently, I've been advocating for Alola Ninetales because I think it is a good pokemon and I have very good reasons to believe so, but when detractors come by they just say it's bad because it's weak to fire and steel. No mention whatsoever that Fairy/Ice alongside Freeze Dry has very good coverage extending to Dark, Flying, Dragon, Ground, Fighting, Grass & Water types; that it has a very useful niche in the form of Snow Warning + Aurora Veil utility or that it has a decent movepool in Encore & Moonblast and the aforementioned Freeze Dry & Aurora Veil...

Honestly it's Aurora Veil that really sells me on that thing. Dual Screens that can be set up in just one turn? That's crazy. Honestly I think its stats would make it really mediocre otherwise, but that move (along with its ability to and speed to compliment it) turns it into a force to be reckoned with.

I'm planning on making one my Battle Tree lead. Don't know when I'll use it in actual competitive battles yet, since I don't play HO often, but I probably will at some point.

 

[TDK]

Carrie Fisher has died at age 60.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/a8539351/carrie-fisher-dies-60/

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Honestly it's Aurora Veil that really sells me on that thing. Dual Screens that can be set up in just one turn? That's crazy. Honestly I think its stats would make it really mediocre otherwise, but that move (along with its ability to and speed to compliment it) turns it into a force to be reckoned with.

I'm planning on making one my Battle Tree lead. Don't know when I'll use it in actual competitive battles yet, since I don't play HO often, but I probably will at some point.

I'm using one in the Battle Tree as a lead alongside Alola Marowak and Mega Gyarados. The utility it provides is crazy; it helps make Mega Gyarados an unstoppable force and it's so dreaded among my friends that they usually lead with pokemon with strong steel type moves just to get rid of Ninetales.
Oh, and dem 100% accurate Blizzards.

Carrie Fisher has died at age 60.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/a8539351/carrie-fisher-dies-60/

That is so unfortunate... 60 is such a young age to be taken from this world.

 

[DJBor]

Spoiler: pretty sad

2016 has taken too many celebrities' lives... pretty depressing.
David Bowie, Prince, Harper Lee, Natalie Cole, Muhammad Ali, Gene Wilder, George Michael, George Morrison, and now Carrie Fisher.
EDIT: WHAT THE HECK? Debbie Reynolds dies today at 84. (granted, it's 84, not 60, but still, what's with all the death, this is really depressing!?!)

Alolan Ninetales, Gigalith, Pelipper and Torkoal are all very good. However, the one gaining the most immediate popularity is Torkoal. (Unfortunately for me, since my favorite is Ninetales!)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That is so unfortunate... 60 is such a young age to be taken from this world.

Ironically, people have died much sooner than that, so she's one of the fortunate to make it that far.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Alolan Ninetales, Gigalith, Pelipper and Torkoal are all very good. However, the one gaining the most immediate popularity is Torkoal. (Unfortunately for me, since my favorite is Ninetales!)

A lot of this depends on the format you're playing, though. Even if it's great in VGC now, it's not all that impressive in Smogon singles. Its stealth rock weakness and lack of recovery keep it from walling, and it's horrible, horrible speed keeps it from shell smashing or playing any other offensive role.

In Smogon singles, Ninetales and Pelipper are the better ones, Ninetales being ridiculously good at supporting HO and Pelipper being able to use slow U-turns to work as a pivot and safely get ally pokemon into battle.

In Battle Spot singles, I don't really know how they hold up, but I think Pelipper loses some of its utility with U-turn due to it only being 3vs3.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

The Pelipper, Tapu Koko, Alola Raichu core is generally solid, however, in a 3v3 format it has a hard time against pokemon immune to electric type moves. I've used those 3 in the Battle Tree but when something like Garchomp shows up things get tricky unless I get a lucky burn from Pelipper since Tapu Koko cannot OHKO with Dazzling Gleam. Perhaps giving the pelican Ice Beam may help alleviate this issue.
Also, Raichu gets Surf from the VC versions of R/B/Y, but I'm not going to play those games just to get it so my best hope is to look for someone who might trade it. Alola Tales does pretty well with Mega Gyarados as a partner in the same format. Perhaps Heatran would be a good teammate as well since it double resists steel and is immune to fire.

By the way, I'm gonna try a core with Torkoal and A-Exeggutor to see how it goes. I'm also going to experiment with Gigalith and A-Dugtrio in doubles, since the latter is one of the fastests users of Sand Force and can take full advantage of Gigalith's Sandstream and Gravity.
Oh, I'm also pulling out that old Rain attacker Dragonite set I've been raring to use for a while alongside Pelipper.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Sorry for the double post.
Some people are saying that Psychic Terrain is OP but I wonder why. It augments psychic type moves by 50% and blocks priority moves on grounded opponents, and that's it as far as I know. Is it because it nullifies priority?

 

[ZephyrZ]

Sorry for the double post.
Some people are saying that Psychic Terrain is OP but I wonder why. It augments psychic type moves by 50% and blocks priority moves on grounded opponents, and that's it as far as I know. Is it because it nullifies priority?

The Terrain Itself isn't really worse than grassy or electric terrains. It's Tapu Lele that causes the real problems. 130 special attack, instant psychic terrain boost, and fairy-type STAB coverage for dark types makes it really, really difficult for defensive teams and balanced teams to deal with. Steel types then are either picked off by HP Fire or HP Ground, depending on what coverage it chooses. And even if you can resist Psychic, that isn't always enough to take it on.

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 156-185 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You definitely have to fight smart against Tapu Lele, especially since Psyshock gives it a way to deliver physical damage. If you think that a Blissey is going to wall it, think again, because Tapu Lele can 2-hit KO Blissey with a Psychic Terrain boosted Psyshock, even without a Life Orb.

Steel-types are pretty much the best bet, since they resist both of Tapu Lele's STAB options, though it should be noted that Tapu Lele does have access to Thunderbolt and Energy Ball.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So, a guy D/C on me on the BattleSpot Singles. He brought a 4 pokemon team, and one of them included a level 1 Honedge while the rest were at level 50. Yet he/she decided to lead with the level 1 Honedge for some reason, predictably getting one shotted. The rest of the team didn't fare any better and I managed to win without taking any damage. Yet when their last pokemon fell they D/C on me, as if they had a good reason to be mad at me for winning. Dude sent a level 1 pokemon against me, don't see why he has take out his incompetence on me.

 

[Krysco]

Is Honedge able to use the F.E.A.R strategy at all? That'd be my only guess for bringing a level 1 Pokemon.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Nope, didn't even had a focus sash.

 

[DJBor]

Aw man, I forgot about Rain Attacker Dragonite! Unfortunately my current rain team has a dragon in Garchomp, but I'll keep that one in mind.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Let me share some of my Battlespot experiences:

-I send Alola Tales.
-Opponent sends out Scizor.
-I switch out with Alola Marowak.
-Scizor mega evolves!
-Scizor uses... Air Slash? *____*

Oh I knew I was in for a ride the moment I saw that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why someone would have Scizor use special attacks is rather baffling, since it's heavily meant to be using physical attacks.

 

[ZephyrZ]

They probably don't really pay attention to stats and whatnot and instead just use whatever moves seem cool.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've been kind of curious about Buzzwole lately and did some experiments with the damage calculator, especially with the following...

Buzzwole
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Beast Boost
Item: Assault Vest
EV spread: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Defense
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Leech Life
Move 3: Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
Move 4: Power-Up Punch

The Assault Vest basically boosts Buzzwole's low special defense, but forces it to use attacking moves. However, that's only a minor inconvenience, thanks to Power-Up Punch's secondary effect of raising Buzzwole's attack. Combine Power-Up Punch with Beast Boost, and that attack stat will start going up fast. Leech Life gives Buzzwole an attack that also restores its HP.

As for Thunder Punch and Ice Punch, they each have their pros and cons. Of course, you'll probably get more out of Ice Punch, as it covers more types than Thunder Punch.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

What about shifting the EVs from it's defense to it's HP instead?
Also, I would personally go with Hammer Arm or Superpower for secondary STAB.

Speaking of something else; people are dissing Alola Dugtrio and for good reason because it loses it's niche in Arena Trap which allowed it to trap and kill specific targets but I'm seeing potential in it in doubles as one of the fastest users of Sand Force.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What about shifting the EVs from it's defense to it's HP instead?
Also, I would personally go with Hammer Arm or Superpower for secondary STAB.

You could go with 128 HP and 128 defense. As for Hammer Arm and Superpower, Superpower does have the drawback of weakening Buzzwole's defense, which can't be negated with Beast Boost if attack is its strongest stat. On the other hand, Superpower is a guaranteed 1-hit KO against Blissey, no matter how much HP or defense it has. Hammer Arm weakens Buzzwole's speed, and it's not exactly what I would call a slowpoke with a base speed of 79.

Anyway, the main drawback with the Assault Vest is that Buzzwole can't use status moves, which is why Power-Up Punch serves as an alternate way to boost the attack stat. Unfortunately, it risks getting Countered against Blissey if it doesn't acquire enough attack boosts before Blissey shows up. The scenario is even worse against Eviolite Chansey, where Buzzwole can't get the guaranteed 1-hit KO with Leech Life or Power-Up Punch until its attack stage reaches 6.

If you remove the Assault Vest, you could give Buzzwole Bulk Up, but this does make it more vulnerable to special attacks. The Assault Vest is basically the only way to boost Buzzwole's special defense without giving it any special defense EVs. In fact, the Assault Vest can raise its special defense value to 213.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Generally, it's better to give a pokemon max HP than max defense or special defense, especially since your Buzzwole set carries an assault vest.

252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Buzzwole: 60-71 (16.9 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 72-85 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO

See, they're almost exactly the same in terms of protecting Buzzwole from physical attacks. But if you max out HP, it also helps with special defense a bunch more as well.

The only exceptions are pokemon like Buzzwole and Wailord, who already have stupidly high HP but really low defense and special defense in comparison.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Generally, it's better to give a pokemon max HP than max defense or special defense, especially since your Buzzwole set carries an assault vest.

252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Buzzwole: 60-71 (16.9 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Buzzwole Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 72-85 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO

See, they're almost exactly the same in terms of protecting Buzzwole from physical attacks. But if you max out HP, it also helps with special defense a bunch more as well.

It can be understandable in the long run. Sometimes you just have to wonder which stat should have more priority.

The only exceptions are pokemon like Buzzwole and Wailord, who already have stupidly high HP but really low defense and special defense in comparison.

Don't you mean Guzzlord? That thing has the 3rd highest base HP.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It can be understandable in the long run. Sometimes you just have to wonder which stat should have more priority.

We're comparing a huge boost to special defense to a very tiny boost to defense. You usually wouldn't even notice the defense difference 99% of the time if you ran max HP, but you'd certianly notice it every time a stray special attack hi Buzzwole.

252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 264-312 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Buzzwole: 218-260 (61.4 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's only a 1-2% difference, off of on of the most powerful physical attacks you'll never get hit by. And if you want to get even more extreme...

252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Buzzwole: 1036-1224 (291.8 - 344.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 1240-1464 (296.6 - 350.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's only a 4-5% difference, from a x4 super effect 120 base power attack Banded Mega Rayquaza of all things.

I can't think of any situation in which 252 Defense would actually be better then 252 HP for Buzzwole. It rarely makes more then 2% of a difference - that's not going to be saving you from practically any 2HKOs.

Don't you mean Guzzlord? That thing has the 3rd highest base HP.

Oh yeah, that's what I meant. Buzzwoles a UB and Buzzlord is a UB and they both have uzz and my brain just slipped up.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It can still feel pretty odd how you actually take "more" damage whenever you go with maximum HP.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, you know how Wobbuffet makes that work...

The more I hear about Guzzlord (mountain of HP, Dark/Dragon typing, gluttonous nature), the more it makes me think of this...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well, you know how Wobbuffet makes that work...

At least with Wobbuffet, you only have to focus on its HP and defense stats, since its only attacking moves are Counter and Mirror Coat.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Does Yoshi's damn eggs have auto targeting or something? It just feels that somehow they always hit no matter from where they shoot.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't believe they auto target, but Yoshi mains have a lot of control over the throw. They can change both its range and the angle it's thrown at manually, so it can cover a pretty large area. The fact that they fly in an arch and have fairly good hitboxes also makes it much harder to just jump over them then with other character's projectiles.