Social Spoon Sword Social

[Metros]

We literally just got what we've wanted for nearly a year and people are complaining about nerfs? Sigh.

We should be focusing on Mewtwo and using him to our advantage now no matter what character he's against, Bayo, Sheik whatever. It's still early days to tell how he'll go. It's not as though either character has an entire new moveset or anything.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Calm down. Seriously.
The game is almost balanced perfectly now. There are very few outlying "top tiers" and "bottom tiers" after this patch.

I don't know about you, but I'm developing my empirical data-based tier list for 1.1.5, and the number two character as of right now is Mario. No lies. Roast me all you want, it's an opinion! Everyone has an opinion of their own tier placements. Can it not just stay that way?

 

[/Lucina]

Honestly, I think Rock Smash is better than most counters because unlike those, it always has a hitbox no matter if you get hit or not. Not to mention that it does a ton of shield damage. And then you've got its massive damage output and the sliding rock smash tech...it's just great. It's one of the main reasons I decided to main Charizard in the first place.

Charizard's also get a great juggle game with his fast dash speed, Nair, Up Smash, and the occasional Flare Blitz. Zard may not be good in neutral, but if he can get you above his head, he's a monster.

Charizard is badass, and I LOVE Rock Smash, but I do think it has a weakness. It only faces one direction, so if you face the wrong way, it's a total whiff. It's still a great move though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The "plz nerf" culture is stronk....
What happened with "adapt"? And none of the top tiers ever reached Brawl's MK or Melee's Fox level of "brokenness" too.

>Says people need to adapt instead of crying nerfs
>Whines about certain characters not being nerfed enough
>Mains one of the best characters in the game and whining about how the nerfs were 'unnecessary'
>Listed Bayonetta as a character which needed nerfs despite Bayonetta not being that good in comparison to Zamus, yet Witch Time being nerfed regardless
This is almost as bad as the filthy casual who claimed Ganondorf was OP

Yesterday I was playing with buddies "Man, this patch was amazing for Mewtwo! He feels much better!" a friend rage quit, and when we booted the game back up, the patch wasn't downloaded. I'm a busy girl and I want to beat 2 games quickly, Xenoblade X and Advance Wars, but I feel like investing in Mewtwo again. Especially with how fun he looks in Pokken

 

[LRodC]

I think the top 5 consists of Cloud, Bayonetta, Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Rosalina, not in any order. The fact that I'm not even sure who #1 is at this point is a good sign of the game's balance.

The bottom is also looking much better, except Jigglypuff still needs a boost.

And at this rate, I'm waiting for the patch that makes Mewtwo as fast as Captain Falcon.

 

[/Lucina]

Wait wait wait, Mewtwo was.... buffed? What?!

Please tell me I'm dreaming. No, wait, don't.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Happy to see Mewtwo's got some good buffs going for him. Hope to see more of him in regionals and internationals. I'm hoping he'll be pretty good in Pokken as well.
Speaking of Pokken, I'm in a bit of a dilemma with it coming out soon...
Do I get the Pro Controller, or the Hori Pokken battle pad? The Battle Pad is cheaper at about 25$ and seems to be limited edition, but at the same time, only works with Pokken. Whereas you've got the Wii U Pro Controller, which is pricey at 50$, but works with more games in response. That'd help with some games, like Minecraft U, which I bought for local family/friend multiplayer (don't really play it on my own)...but the only controllers that work with it are the Gamepad and Pro Controller. I'm not sure which is the "optimal choice" for the game, I'd assume both work well...If only I could use the Gamecube controllers I have...
I also heard the arcade version uses that exact battle pad, which makes me wonder if the battle pad is the better choice, should the game get a good competitive scene going. I know that local multiplayer isn't really an option, considering Player 1 is stuck to the gamepad, so arcade cabinets or LAN would be the next best thing. I'm stuck at a major point of confusion right now...

 

[Metallinatus]

>Says people need to adapt instead of crying nerfs
>Whines about certain characters not being nerfed enough
>Mains one of the best characters in the game and whining about how the nerfs were 'unnecessary'
>Listed Bayonetta as a character which needed nerfs despite Bayonetta not being that good in comparison to Zamus, yet Witch Time being nerfed regardless
This is almost as bad as the filthy casual who claimed Ganondorf was OP

Yesterday I was playing with buddies "Man, this patch was amazing for Mewtwo! He feels much better!" a friend rage quit, and when we booted the game back up, the patch wasn't downloaded. I'm a busy girl and I want to beat 2 games quickly, Xenoblade X and Advance Wars, but I feel like investing in Mewtwo again. Especially with how fun he looks in Pokken

Uhh, yeah, you literally picked whole phrases I said, excluded crucial words, and convinced yourself your "version" of those phrases are what I said.
And do I have to go back to main Lucina for what I say to matter? Back then I was already saying that the Diddy nerf was stupid, because criers will never learn, they will keep crying until everybody is Zelda, and OH LOOK, ONE YEAR LATER AND I WAS RIGHT!

 

[Krysco]

My cousin was over last night and we played FF dubs without even knowing about the patch and all 3 of my tops were affected: along with my more casual 4th

Once we saw the replays weren't usable and we went online, we were quite happy with what we saw. We then sat there wondering, where is Nintendo trying to balance this game around? Seems to be Mario/Fox/Ness kinda area. Mostly Mario though since Fox and Ness have been hit by patches before while I don't recall Mario ever being touched.

Characters above him got nerfed:

While characters below him got buffed:

And that's not even looking at previous patches.

Then there's the case of and . seemed to be a rushed nerf since she was being used a lot and probably winning a lot on online matches. Similar case with at release. simply lost her infinite which also happened to , on , with customs and despite the latter most not being that great. Nintendo doesn't seem to want infinites of any kind to exist regardless of tier placement.

Course then there's the mid tiers who get left untouched like and and etc. But that's the 'range' they want characters to be in it seems. From to ish.
...
As for ...I don't even ****ing know.too. Maybe they do really well online?

 

[BarSoapSoup]

It's great to know Mewtwo got some buffs. I've been training my Bowser extremely hard, so I've paid very little attention to M2 of late, but I'm glad that whenever I do feel comfortable enough with Bowser again that I can have a freshly-buffed Mewtwo to practice again.

Edit: I have considered solo-maining Bowser, but since most of the other Bowser-mains do not recommend that, Mewtwo stays, haha. I guess it would be a waste to buy him and not make use of his fantastic potential.

 

[pikazz]

I am so happy over the speed buffs ;w;

been sadly too much into Bayo so I havent played much mewtwo lately D;

 

[/Lucina]

So Mewtwo still hasn't graduated from 2nd-lightest character in the game, but I'll take any weight increase over no weight increase. And more speed is always great.

 

[Igzex]

Back then I was already saying that the Diddy nerf was stupid, because criers will never learn, they will keep crying until everybody is Zelda, and OH LOOK, ONE YEAR LATER AND I WAS RIGHT!

Are you among the poke' scrubs that declared Dragon type poke'mon to be worthless with the introduction of fairy type poke'mon because they can't just dragon dance and outrage with impunity anymore? I wager you have much in common with them...if they're not too drenched in hyperbole.

I can't wait to enjoy the sweet chorus of screams over Cloud nerfs while Mewtwo becomes 80 pounds and has Fox speed in some later patch.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Uhh, yeah, you literally picked whole phrases I said, excluded crucial words, and convinced yourself your "version" of those phrases are what I said.
And do I have to go back to main Lucina for what I say to matter? Back then I was already saying that the Diddy nerf was stupid, because criers will never learn, they will keep crying until everybody is Zelda, and OH LOOK, ONE YEAR LATER AND I WAS RIGHT!

Diddy had a combo which was very easy to do that worked on everyone. Zamus literally has a good matchup on in the entire cast. Those nerfs were justified, and you aren't right. People DID adapt. And people are currently adapting. I consider you on a equal level as that kid who called Ganon OP because you can't get that through your skull

 

[Murlough]

I don't get the Cloud or Corrin nerfs. Sure, they were good but the only thing worth nerfing was Corrin's counter. Everything else that got nerfed feels overly harsh and undeserved.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Zamus literally has a good matchup on in the entire cast.

But then Zero Suit Samus would be the highest tier character, not Sheik. Unless I'm misinformed?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But then Zero Suit Samus would be the highest tier character, not Sheik. Unless I'm misinformed?

Same applies to Sheik, but she did it better and Zamus had more tourney results from what I saw

 

[Metallinatus]

Diddy had a combo which was very easy to do that worked on everyone. Zamus literally has a good matchup on in the entire cast. Those nerfs were justified, and you aren't right. People DID adapt. And people are currently adapting. I consider you on a equal level as that kid who called Ganon OP because you can't get that through your skull

"Zamus literally has a good matchup on in the entire cast." already showed your poor understanding over the character.
Still, justified was, the nerf wasn't even hard on her, but how many times do I have to say that if they are going to nerf hard some of the top characters, they better do it with all of them, so there won't be anyone too far atop the top characters? All that I am saying is that I like to have 3 of 4 characters pretty much even at the top, and that's how it was before the patch, but the way they apparently didn't change anything significant on Bayonetta may have created a gap between the others. Having 4 S tier characters is more fun than having 3 S tiers and one SS tier character.
The change on ZSS was barely significant, I can live with that, what I don't want is to see a gap at the top tier....
But, in a perfect world for me, there wouldn't be no nerfs unless a character was really broken (Brawl level of brokenness), and there would only be buffs to the lesser characters.... heck, they were so focused at nerfing Sheik, and they didn't do anything significant to make Ganondorf at least playable.... where is the frame 1 OHKO command grab that he needs to make the jump from bottom tier to high bottom tier? They nerf Sheik while the poor souls in the Bottom tier get no love....

 

[Cutie Gwen]

and they didn't do anything significant to make Ganondorf at least playable.... where is the frame 1 OHKO command grab that he needs to make the jump from bottom tier to high bottom tier? They nerf Sheik while the poor souls in the Bottom tier get no love....

Ganon has been getting buffs every patch. No love my ass. If you think Ganon needs an OHKO to be be high bottom, you're really ****ing delusional. Byebye!

 

[Igzex]

But, in a perfect world for me, there wouldn't be no nerfs unless a character was really broken (Brawl level of brokenness), and there would only be buffs to the lesser characters.

That's just asking for power creep really. Balance is not that simple.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If anything, the only low tier characters I can think of who didn't get buffs were Jiggs and I think Dedede, thought I don't remember if he's bottom or mid

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Quite a bit of salt in this here Social....

EDIT: Cutie Gwen I think he's the bottom of mid-low tier, if that makes sense.

 

[Metallinatus]

Ganon has been getting buffs every patch. No love my ***. If you think Ganon needs an OHKO to be be high bottom, you're really ****ing delusional. Byebye!

A "frame 1 OHKO command grab" was not "hyperbole alert" enough for you? I mean, it's a frame 1.... OHKO.... command.. forget it.
He has been getting "buffs", uh? Tell me, how much better did he get from the buffs? Is he at least at Duck Hunt level? At pre-patch Marth level? I don't think he is. Saying that he got really buffed in any patch is like saying that all the nerfs Sheik got before the last patch made her a totally mid tier character.
Give Ganondorf the Ike treatment, and then we're talking.

 

[Xandercosm]

I'm wondering if Mewtwo would make a good secondary for me (in the place of MK if I do drop him ). I've been messing around with him and I've had a lot of fun. He's cool, his F-air feels amazing, and I'm getting used to his odd, yet handy, aerial mobility. If I do decide to pick him up, what do I need to know to get started?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Meta Knight lost one combo. It's not like that's all he has. I played a non-uair Meta Knight for a significant amount of time to know he's not bad. Here's the new combo. Dash, one up air, forward air, drill/tornado.

Teleport ledge cancelling is not a must, but is a good tech to have for defensive purposes.
Don't mess around with uncharged Shadow Ball. It's only worth using the fully charged version. (Zachmac, your mixup does work as well, though I don't prefer it)
Learn the combos out of jab into down tilt. There's a lot of options.
Finally, learn the timing and spacing on down air. It's brutal.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Don't mess around with uncharged Shadow Ball. It's only worth using the fully charged version.

I don't fully agree with this. Fully charged is always best if you think you can get it, but a partially charged one can be thrown out every now and then just to be disruptive.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I don't fully agree with this. Fully charged is always best if you think you can get it, but a partially charged one can be thrown out every now and then just to be disruptive.

Yeah, I dont agree with the whole "uncharged shadow ball isnt worth using" mentality. It absolutely is. You control so much space just by alternating between grounded and shorthop SBs. Bigger characters have trouble getting around it, and it puts a lot of pressure on people, often forcing them to shield, which is good, because then you can run up to them and grab as they shield (especially thanks to the speed increase). Even just throwing a shadow ball and running behind it is great because it forces a reaction from the opponent.

People need to stop looking at just kill power and damage and look at what these different tools bring to the table; in this case, uncharged SBs can easily put people in favorable situations.

 

[/Lucina]

Shadow Beads have gotten me some funny offstage gimps as well.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Shadow Beads have gotten me some funny offstage gimps as well.

Offstage SBs can force airdodges, which makes them easy prey for a well placed f-air.

 

[Murlough]

Offstage SBs can force airdodges, which makes them easy prey for a well placed f-air.

Or a fun landing into an Up-Smash. My absolute favorite thing to do with Mewtwo is throwing an uncharged SB and hitting them with an Up-Smash directly afterward, regardless of whether they air dodge or not. Its beautiful.

 

[godogod]

I'm glad ZSS and Shiek got nerfed. CLoud's nerfs aren't that bad. Bayonetta's witchtime and Corrin's counter is justified.. But I feel like smash devs went a bit further and were unjustified. Corrin getting damage decreases from aerials, his charged pojrectiles and and slower in the ground is just wtf man.. Bayonetta's increased lag on side special and down aerial wasn't necessary either. ehh

 

[Metros]

So after a long time I decided to enter a tournament we had here tonight. Most of what's been holding me back is not feeling as though I improve no matter how much I play, so I ended up taking a long break. When the news came about that Mewtwo was buffed again I felt that motivation come back.

Anyway, I did super well. Even though I came 13th, I placed Top 16 (there were 28 entrants.) I don't enter tournaments enough to get a better placing but I am proud of how I went and this was only my 3rd ever tournament.

The people I was up against in the past have always beaten me pretty badly. Tonight I did even against them and even managed to bring back four or so matches that I was down two stocks and on high percent. My first match was against a Cloud which I demolished (two stocked) and people behind me were saying how scary Mewtwo was an in awe, it was amazing.

Then he went ZSS and won, and I SD'd on the last match. Ugh.

After that I was against another player that's one of the best in Melee and PM. He went ROB and Ganon, and I 2-0'd him despite him almost winning both. I was about 65% on last stock on each match but I was able to turn both around and win.

The final set was against a guy that I've never been able to beat in the past. He went RosaLuma first match, I beat him in that because he's new to the character. But then he went his main, Yoshi. The same situation where it was high percent last stock but I was able to bring both matches around. The final match was SO close, I almost won but he got the last hit.

I had so much praise for my Mewtwo tonight though and a lot of people told me I played super well and have improved a bunch. The buffs added are fantastic. I feel so much more confident in myself playing Mewtwo now considering these people used to destroy me in the past and now I can even with them. They are all really good players too.

It was a good experience I just wanted to share.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Good to see Mewtwo getting some buffs :D

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I'm disappointed Shadow Mewtwo amiibo doesn't work as a variant of Mewtwo, so it doesn't work in Smash. I was looking forwards to using the shadow alt on it too...

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Oh, the salt when there are no unlockable characters in Pokken outside of Mewtwo...
Worst part? I don't have enough spare cash to get the game yet.
So I guess I'll be sticking with Smsh for now... especially after this patch.
Am I the only one who thinks Greninja is easily top 20 now, maybe even top 15?

 

[BlazGreen]

The Sheik nerfs were great for a lot of characters and Greninja has arguably benefited the most from it. His MU spread looks top 15 to me.

 

[Murlough]

At my local and I'm both happy and pissed at how quickly Mewtwo went from "SOOO light" to "absolutely broken."

I've also learned that Ness is basically win button against me. I'm drowning in salt right now.

 

[---]

New XY chapter came out, and the rush is starting/Zygarde yet again gets screwed over in another medium.

Spoiler: Because People Asked

Xerneas was only able to destroy the Absorber, not the full Ultimate Weapon, which is discovered to be a moot point as the original Absorber for the weapon AZ created is still operational, explaining the dozens of "dead" Pokemon in previous chapters. There are some references to Colress from B2W2 ironically.

Essentia brainwashes the stolen Xerneas with her Pokeball Jack (a type of virus), but is only able to control it to a certain extent, as X focuses on destroying more of her helmet. Zygarde 50% appears out of nowhere, to which she captures it almost immediately, releases Xerneas and runs off, as it's revealed she's no longer under the full control of Team Flare due to the helmet damage and is now her own 3rd Party. Sycamore also learns where the new TF hideout is.

Definitely going to see some major rewrites plot wise given how quickly they're rushing things here. Volcanion/Mega Mewtwo look like they'll be regulated to cameo/flashback status or will be used in Sun/Moon or B2W2.

Also got the 19th Anniversary artbook in the mail today which released earlier this week. Never realized the series was a month older than the anime. Kind of bummed it doesn't contain anything from before Vol 10, the anniversary group pics, and the mini-pics from the foreword in each volume, but it's much larger than I would have thought and has some cool full art posters in it. It's definitely going on my shelf next to the Ken Sugimori art collection.

 

[Murlough]

New XY chapter came out, and the rush is starting/Zygarde yet again gets screwed over in another medium.

Spoiler: Because People Asked

Xerneas was only able to destroy the Absorber, not the full Ultimate Weapon, which is discovered to be a moot point as the original Absorber for the weapon AZ created is still operational, explaining the dozens of "dead" Pokemon in previous chapters. There are some references to Colress from B2W2 ironically.

Essentia brainwashes the stolen Xerneas with her Pokeball Jack (a type of virus), but is only able to control it to a certain extent, as X focuses on destroying more of her helmet. Zygarde 50% appears out of nowhere, to which she captures it almost immediately, releases Xerneas and runs off, as it's revealed she's no longer under the full control of Team Flare due to the helmet damage and is now her own 3rd Party. Sycamore also learns where the new TF hideout is.

Definitely going to see some major rewrites plot wise given how quickly they're rushing things here. Volcanion/Mega Mewtwo look like they'll be regulated to cameo/flashback status or will be used in Sun/Moon or B2W2.

Also got the 19th Anniversary artbook in the mail today which released earlier this week. Never realized the series was a month older than the anime. Kind of bummed it doesn't contain anything from before Vol 10, the anniversary group pics, and the mini-pics from the foreword in each volume, but it's much larger than I would have thought and has some cool full art posters in it. It's definitely going on my shelf next to the Ken Sugimori art collection.

Where do you go to read those?

 

[meleebrawler]

Playing through Pokken, and going through it's cast has ended up in quite a few unexpected unions (except Sceptile. I wanted to play him since his announcement and he doesn't disappoint). So far Machamp is beastly, and Gardevoir fills my Technical spot when I thought Gengar would.