[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[MajoraMan28]

Meh.

In my opinion I think he's really the only competent director available to do it. Especially considering he participated in a few things with the original. I respect the guy and I think he does good work and that's coming from someone who even doesn't even like KH. He got shafted from doing VersusXIII so maybe Square might have tossed him a bone when he was handed this project. I'm skeptical on whether or not if Square is smart enough to avoid bastardizing what is arguably the biggest game they've ever released so I'm keeping my expectations in check the best I can (and it's really ****ing hard lol) but I think I can trust Nomura to do right for the Remake.

Or maybe I just have to trust him.

He already ruined the FFVII franchise with the film that Nomura himself directed. The KH interpretation of the characters bleeded into the expanded universe and Dissidia. It killed Cloud as a character, it ruined the game's ending and themes, and became saturated. He is a character designer that helped pen Vincent's backstory, which is far from the stronger points of the original game. He doesn't understand the characters, is responsible for questionable design decisions in KH, infamous for bottom tier narrative in both AC and KH, and every main project he touches gets cursed with a development cycle of many years, only for the game to come out as incomplete and missing its potential by a considerable margin. He goes for the looks, never for the substance. And he admited that already when he says that his main design focus is to reproduce the flashiest combat possible for him, seen in AC. In fact, it isn't even far fetched to assume that Versus XIII died exactly because of Nomura's terrible leadership and lack of fulfillment of the premise he wished to expose in the game. The game was in development for a good number of years before VXIII was deemed cancelled. Nomura gave numerous interviews on the project's progression. It wasn't just S-E killing it off for no reason. To put it simply: he is a top tier character designer first and foremost, not a director or writer.
He is only at the position he is in because S-E has very few options from the people that were at Squaresoft in the 90s.

Yeah, I'm aware of how hard it is to keep the hype in check, but expecting anything near the quality of the original is asking for disappointment.

 

[Calane]

If we're talking about how people feel about Erdrick, they're likely backing out because the leaked info concerning him has been called into question and to those who originally thought it a certainty are seeing history repeat itself in many forms and taking necessary caution.

As a Ridley supporter, I can confirm that we never gave up hope until the bitter end. Granted, we've had more experience in rejection despite looking almost guaranteed, so that may have something to do with it.

I don't see why keeping your expectations in check is seen as some form of weakness around here, but I don't like it.

By "called into question", are you referring to Vergeben? Because, from what I understand, his mistakes were his own fault and not those of his good sources. But even without Verge, there's still a lot going for us. However, I'd advise against anyone claiming victory until they've actually won. That's never a smart thing to do.

I can assure you that none of us are backing out or giving up. We just don't want to be overconfident, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

In my opinion I think he's really the only competent director available to do it.

Still, let's not forget that he's kinda the reason that Cloud and the FF7 franchise got flanderized to high heaven and has this negative stigma that outsiders tend to give it.

We just don't want to be overconfident, and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's pretty much what I was saying about the situation. No need for worry.

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't see why keeping your expectations in check is seen as some form of weakness around here, but I don't like it.

If anything, it's the wiser move, honestly. It's better to be cautious than to go all in on something that still has a chance of not happening, you know? Definitely not a form of weakness.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I don't see why keeping your expectations in check is seen as some form of weakness around here, but I don't like it.

Eh? What's this got to do with what I said? I'm not even describing such as weakness, or that it's even a bad thing.

By "called into question", are you referring to Vergeben? Because, from what I understand, his mistakes were his own fault and not those of his good sources. But even without Verge, there's still a lot going for us.

Granted, we don't know if it was the "good source" that gave him the Erdrick info, but Verge isn't the sole point I was talking about. I mean, everything, considering how Erdrick has been in the leaker pipes since at least last August. Alleged insider talk, Tansut, the whole 9 yards are all being called into question. Basically in the sense thatit's no longer viewed like a certainty as many were viewing Erdrick to be, because circumstances are showing more of a 50-50 state, esepcially with insiders not really supporting Erdrick, let alone a Square character for sure.

However, I'd advise against anyone claiming victory until they've actually won. That's never a smart thing to do.

Pretty much my stance on anything.

 

[NomadLuminary]

He already ruined the FFVII franchise with the film that Nomura himself directed. The KH interpretation of the characters bleeded into the expanded universe and Dissidia. It killed Cloud as a character, it ruined the game's ending and themes, and became saturated. He is a character designer that helped pen Vincent's backstory, which is far from the stronger points of the original game. He doesn't understand the characters, is responsible for questionable design decisions in KH, infamous for bottom tier narrative in both AC and KH, and every main project he touches it is cursed with a development cycle of many years, only for the game to come out as incomplete and missing its potential by a considerable margin. He goes for the looks, never for the substance. And he admited that already when he says that his main design focus is to reproduce the flashiest combat possible for him, seen in AC. In fact, it isn't even far fetched to assume that Versus XIII died exactly because of Nomura's terrible leadership and lack of fulfillment of the premise he wished to expose in the game. The game was in development for a good number of years before VXIII was deemed cancelled. Nomura gave numerous interviews on the project's progression. It wasn't just S-E killing it off for no reason. To put it simply: he is a top tier character designer first and foremost, not a director or writer.
He is only at the position he is in because S-E has very few options from the people that were at Squaresoft in the 90s.

Yeah, I'm aware of how hard it is to keep the hype in check, but expecting anything near the quality of the original is asking for disappointment.

Agree with this almost completely. I've really had a hard time trusting the Square side of the company, and have almost no expectations with FF7 remake because of it. Nomura as a director doesn't exactly speak confidence to me.

 

[TheYungLink]

Agree with this almost completely. I've really had a hard time trusting the Square side of the company, and have almost no expectations with FF7 remake because of it. Nomura has a director doesn't exactly speak confidence to me.

I agree. Also, welcome to Smashboards!

 

[NomadLuminary]

I agree. Also, welcome to Smashboards!

Thank you!

 

[Calane]

Eh? What's this got to do with what I said? I'm not even describing such as weakness, or that it's even a bad thing.

Then I may have misunderstood the point of your post. I apologize.

Granted, we don't know if it was the "good source" that gave him the Erdrick info, but Verge isn't the sole point I was talking about. I mean, everything, considering how Erdrick has been in the leaker pipes since at least last August. Alleged insider talk, Tansut, the whole 9 yards are all being called into question. Basically in the sense thatit's no longer viewed like a certainty as many were viewing Erdrick to be, because circumstances are showing more of a 50-50 state, esepcially with insiders not really supporting Erdrick, let alone a Square character for sure.

I'm not sure why all of this stuff is being called into question, but even without insiders, I still have my own reasons for believing in Erdrick's chances. It's nothing but my own speculation, but I'll hold onto it until this whole thing is finally settled.

Pretty much my stance on anything.

At least we can agree on something.

Edit: I edited this post a lot because I really don't feel like arguing or anything right now. In fact, I never do.

 

[Deleted member]

He already ruined the FFVII franchise with the film that Nomura himself directed. The KH interpretation of the characters bleeded into the expanded universe and Dissidia. It killed Cloud as a character, it ruined the game's ending and themes, and became saturated. He is a character designer that helped pen Vincent's backstory, which is far from the stronger points of the original game. He doesn't understand the characters, is responsible for questionable design decisions in KH, infamous for bottom tier narrative in both AC and KH, and every main project he touches it is cursed with a development cycle of many years, only for the game to come out as incomplete and missing its potential by a considerable margin. He goes for the looks, never for the substance. And he admited that already when he says that his main design focus is to reproduce the flashiest combat possible for him, seen in AC. In fact, it isn't even far fetched to assume that Versus XIII died exactly because of Nomura's terrible leadership and lack of fulfillment of the premise he wished to expose in the game. The game was in development for a good number of years before VXIII was deemed cancelled. Nomura gave numerous interviews on the project's progression. It wasn't just S-E killing it off for no reason. To put it simply: he is a top tier character designer first and foremost, not a director or writer.
He is only at the position he is in because S-E has very few options from the people that were at Squaresoft in the 90s.

Yeah, I'm aware of how hard it is to keep the hype in check, but expecting anything near the quality of the original is asking for disappointment.

I would actually like for SE to leave the development of newer FF to younger members, like Nintendo is doing with some of their franchises. Last mainline FF that I really liked was XII, but Matsuno is now a freelance and he has a pretty good track with games he directed. And other than Taro, who I feel should do his own thing rather than FF, I don't like many of the current SE staff outside the Bravely team and the DQ team.

Bravely Default even with its faults, managed the same themes of FFXIII in a better way and was a better game overall.

 

[NomadLuminary]

I would actually like for SE to leave the development of newer FF to younger members, like Nintendo is doing with some of their franchises. Last mainline FF that I really liked was XII, but Matsuno is now a freelance and he has a pretty good track with games he directed. And other than Taro, who I feel should do his own thing rather than FF, I don't like many of the current SE staff outside the Bravely team and the DQ team.

Bravely Default even with its faults, managed the same themes of FFXIII in a better way and was a better game overall.

See what I would love is for the Bravely Default/Octopath team to take a shot at a new FF game. One based in Fantasy again and less on what 15 attempted to do. Hell, bring back the job system too and make the plot much less convoluted.

 

[Teeb147]

Granted, we don't know if it was the "good source" that gave him the Erdrick info, but Verge isn't the sole point I was talking about. I mean, everything, considering how Erdrick has been in the leaker pipes since at least last August. Alleged insider talk, Tansut, the whole 9 yards are all being called into question. Basically in the sense thatit's no longer viewed like a certainty as many were viewing Erdrick to be, because circumstances are showing more of a 50-50 state, esepcially with insiders not really supporting Erdrick, let alone a Square character for sure.

There hasn't really been a fallback on things, there's maybe just some people that dont trust leakers as much, which is something that should've happened a long time ago. There's still legit info to consider out there, especially when there's multiple sources that tend to have good info. I really hope it wont be too long now before a reveal, so we can just know finally.

 

[NomadLuminary]

In the end, while I would love Erdrick to get in and regardless of the sources, temper all expectations because the chances of getting disappointed are extremely high too.

 

[shinhed-echi]

If I buy any of the FF game on Switch, it’ll probably just be 7. But before that I want to replay them on my PS.
Gonna go 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1, And then maybe X.

Wonder what other goodies S-E is bringing over to switch. I have an urge to play the Mana games remasters.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I don't care if I don't have time to play it, I just want FF7 on a Nintendo system because lmao it actually happened and that's great and I want to own that piece of irony for myself

If limited run games ever did physical copies of 7 and 9 I'll laugh because it's just screams irony especially with 7 lmao

 

[Deleted member]

-snip-

Okay, so you bring a lot of fair points and some I can even agree on but they're kind of all over the place so excuse me if I fail to mention everything you mentioned.

First thing is: you're damn right. He's not a director... a movie director at least and I believe Advent Children was a bad movie that has done damage the to VII's cannon, no doubt. It was a bad idea in the first place to green-light the idea of making a movie based on VII and it was all done for fanservice. I'm not gonna refute it ruining the ending 'cause I agree but you can't refute either that a lot of people were a little unhappy with it and wanted closure for the characters they grew to love in the game. I can't say if the demand was high or not but there was enough there to garner attention from SE to put an idea in their heads and I'm sure they made a pretty penny off it. They're a business they'll do whatever they please with their properties to make money. Now, there's nothing wrong with fanservice, we're posting on a forums dedicated to the most fanservicable game that exists so it'd be ironic to say otherwise. It's all fine and dandy as long as it's handled properly but AC wasn't handled properly and Nomura is not completely to blame for that just because he was the director. SE in general has noooooo idea how to do movies. Blame him all you want, I think it's fine as long as you acknowledge that any of the higher ups that worked on it should be held accountable too. Nojima wrote the script and it was his original idea to do the movie in the first place but he's not the one receiving the most hate for it which is strange because it was the writing of AC that damaged the cannon of VII, not the directing. It never should have happened in the first place, imo.

In regards to Nomura and the original game, he did a lot more for the VII than you might either know or you've just forgotten. He offered some of the most important concepts with the combat for example. Limit Breaks were his idea... kinda. Although Desperation Attacks in VI were the precursor to Limit Breaks, they weren't completely a thing yet until VII. It was because of Nomura's idea that they were introduced to the series with a limit bar and has been a predominant command in FF games since. He also designed the limit breaks for the characters as well. And yeah they're flashy. The Omnislash is flashy as ****. Still cool as hell though. I don't think a lot of people dislike flashy gameplay as long as it's good. He also took part in the storyboards and the sequences for the summons and they were done well too. He had a lot more to do with the script than just Vincents back story. Sakaguchi wrote the original VII script but dropped out to work on Chrono Trigger. Nomura and Kitase got their hands on it and kept a lot of the influences for the beginning but drastically changed it from there. Nomura was a big part in how they would present the death of Aerith to properly catch the emotion. Why not ask the resident emo kid of your company when trying to present emotions? Wasn't his idea at all to kill off Aerith but I guess you could say he had some pull in directing that scene but that's just one example. Nojima is also to be credited for fleshing it a bit by introducing Zack and and helping Hojo's character development.

Nomura deserves a lot more credit than he is given for the original VII because he's done a lot more on it than people realize but all that's being ignored because apparently he's Satan. He's definately not perfect and I'll be the first to admit that. I'm not a fanboy of his and I have my skepticism about him on certain things too but I'm not hearing anyone come up with any better ideas for a director for the Remake than someone who had a lot to do with the original game. Saying he didn't do anything except character design is completely untrue.

And yes. He created emo cloud. I won't argue that because I hate it too.

 

[Ovaltine]

And yes. He created emo cloud. I won't argue that because I hate it too.

I will never not hate that. Even as someone who doesn't really care much for FFVII, what Nomura did to Cloud was just lame.

Nomura Cloud: Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
FFVII Cloud: Alright, let's mosey.

It just doesn't work, man.

 

[Deleted member]

I will never not hate that. Even as someone who doesn't really care much for FFVII, what Nomura did to Cloud was just lame.

Nomura Cloud: Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
FFVII Cloud: Alright, let's mosey.

It just doesn't work, man.

I agree. I agree 100%. Keep in mind though, 'let's mosey' was a localization line. In the japanese version he just says "let's go" or something basic like that.

 

[NomadLuminary]

And yes. He created emo cloud. I won't argue that because I hate it too.

To be fair, on the front of Advent Children, having Cloud go through a path of forgiving himself is actually something I liked. Makes sense almost, It just could've been executed a lot better.

 

[Teeb147]

Advent Children's battles were amazing though, and the animation quality way beyond any 3d movie. I wont say that some things couldn't be way better, but im not gonna throw it all out, that's for sure. I also have quite a bit of hope in the ff7 remake, but it's possible i dont look for the same things in games than some people too. (altho, it was also quite a while ago since i played ff7)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Only thing I still want is a game based upon Advent Children.

...At least we got the costume in Smash. I still want Cloud's Dress, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Only thing I still want is a game based upon Advent Children.

...At least we got the costume in Smash. I still want Cloud's Dress, though.

Only if Link and Mario also have their Gerudo and the Wedding Dress respectively.

 

[TheYungLink]

Only if Link and Mario also have their Gerudo and the Wedding Dress respectively.

We need more guys willfully wearing femme clothing and not feeling embarrassed about it.

 

[Teeb147]

We need more guys willfully wearing femme clothing and not feeling embarrassed about it.

We still don't know what Joker has, and there's a certain version of him that fits for that
Would take a female mc over that any day, but still possible.

 

[EarlTamm]

We need more guys willfully wearing femme clothing and not feeling embarrassed about it.

Luigi is your man.

Spoiler: Pictures

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Only if Link and Mario also have their Gerudo and the Wedding Dress respectively.

...Mario had a Wedding Dress?

 

[TheYungLink]

...Mario had a Wedding Dress?

In Odyssey, you can buy Peach and Bowser's wedding outfits in the post-game. Mario pulls it off great.

 

[Deleted member]

...Mario had a Wedding Dress?

Yup, it was an unlockable costume.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In Odyssey, you can buy Peach and Bowser's wedding outfits in the post-game. Mario pulls it off great.

Yup, it was an unlockable costume.

Well, huh.

That said, these kind of costumes mess with the flow of battle, as they're a lot of extra polygons floating around. It's why Meta Ridley wasn't in the e3 demo, due to how hard it is to make them work. One that messes with moveset animations are even bigger issues. It's no surprise why we don't have dress alts for Cloud, or why Zelda isn't her BOTW self(due to the dress being a part of the moveset. It needs to be there to keep the original moveset animations working properly. Otherwise you'd need a major overhaul and effectively a new character. Even the overhauls Pit and Ganondorf got in 4 and Ultimate don't mess with the basic model animations to any severe degree. His swords are extremely similar to his old Smash attacks too).

 

[NomadLuminary]

I hope Ultimate does polygon skins in a future update. That would be pretty dope.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, huh.

That said, these kind of costumes mess with the flow of battle, as they're a lot of extra polygons floating around. It's why Meta Ridley wasn't in the e3 demo, due to how hard it is to make them work. One that messes with moveset animations are even bigger issues. It's no surprise why we don't have dress alts for Cloud, or why Zelda isn't her BOTW self(due to the dress being a part of the moveset. It needs to be there to keep the original moveset animations working properly. Otherwise you'd need a major overhaul and effectively a new character. Even the overhauls Pit and Ganondorf got in 4 and Ultimate don't mess with the basic model animations to any severe degree. His swords are extremely similar to his old Smash attacks too).

Agree that it would be difficult and there is pretty much zero chance. It would be really funny though :b

 

[MajoraMan28]

Okay, so you bring a lot of fair points and some I can even agree on but they're kind of all over the place so excuse me if I fail to mention everything you mentioned.

First thing is: you're damn right. He's not a director... a movie director at least and I believe Advent Children was a bad movie that has done damage the to VII's cannon, no doubt. It was a bad idea in the first place to green-light the idea of making a movie based on VII and it was all done for fanservice. I'm not gonna refute it ruining the ending 'cause I agree but you can't refute either that a lot of people were a little unhappy with it and wanted closure for the characters they grew to love in the game. I can't say if the demand was high or not but there was enough there to garner attention from SE to put an idea in their heads and I'm sure they made a pretty penny off it. They're a business they'll do whatever they please with their properties to make money. Now, there's nothing wrong with fanservice, we're posting on a forums dedicated to the most fanservicable game that exists so it'd be ironic to say otherwise. It's all fine and dandy as long as it's handled properly but AC wasn't handled properly and Nomura is not completely to blame for that just because he was the director. SE in general has noooooo idea how to do movies. Blame him all you want, I think it's fine as long as you acknowledge that any of the higher ups that worked on it should be held accountable too. Nojima wrote the script and it was his original idea to do the movie in the first place but he's not the one receiving the most hate for it which is strange because it was the writing of AC that damaged the cannon of VII, not the directing. It never should have happened in the first place, imo.

In regards to Nomura and the original game, he did a lot more for the VII than you might either know or you've just forgotten. He offered some of the most important concepts with the combat for example. Limit Breaks were his idea... kinda. Although Desperation Attacks in VI were the precursor to Limit Breaks, they weren't completely a thing yet until VII. It was because of Nomura's idea that they were introduced to the series with a limit bar and has been a predominant command in FF games since. He also designed the limit breaks for the characters as well. And yeah they're flashy. The Omnislash is flashy as ****. Still cool as hell though. I don't think a lot of people dislike flashy gameplay as long as it's good. He also took part in the storyboards and the sequences for the summons and they were done well too. He had a lot more to do with the script than just Vincents back story. Sakaguchi wrote the original VII script but dropped out to work on Chrono Trigger. Nomura and Kitase got their hands on it and kept a lot of the influences for the beginning but drastically changed it from there. Nomura was a big part in how they would present the death of Aerith to properly catch the emotion. Why not ask the resident emo kid of your company when trying to present emotions? Wasn't his idea at all to kill off Aerith but I guess you could say he had some pull in directing that scene but that's just one example. Nojima is also to be credited for fleshing it a bit by introducing Zack and and helping Hojo's character development.

Nomura deserves a lot more credit than he is given for the original VII because he's done a lot more on it than people realize but all that's being ignored because apparently he's Satan. He's definately not perfect and I'll be the first to admit that. I'm not a fanboy of his and I have my skepticism about him on certain things too but I'm not hearing anyone come up with any better ideas for a director for the Remake than someone who had a lot to do with the original game. Saying he didn't do anything except character design is completely untrue.

And yes. He created emo cloud. I won't argue that because I hate it too.

*canon
Uhhhh... People were unsatisfied with the ending? What?
I've lived through the game's launch for years onwards in the fanbase. People loved the characters so much they wanted to see them again in some form. They weren't asking for a sequel necessarily, but they wanted to see them in something like a remaster, a remake or even a prequel (which they eventually did, but following the design philosophy of the later S-E employees and abiding to the garbage-tier narrative and OCs). The problem is that they did fanservice wrong and mischaracterized the characters tremendously. Cloud and Barret were butchered, Red XIII lost any sort of relevance he had, the plot lost itself amidst Nomura-directed or influenced narrative. SE doesn't know how to do movies bc they lacked the people for that. Spirits Within was a mistake, but was just one mistake in Sakaguchi's huge list of accomplishments and credits for writing some of the best stories in gaming. And you're wrong. Nojima wasn't the one that asked for the film to be made. He penned the script later bc he was asked to do that by Nomura and S-E's higherups. Nomura followed suit to the film idea bc of his own success with the first KH game, and wanted to make a FFVII project that he would be responsible for. Him as a director was a driving force behind how the characters should be portrayed, and they are faithful to their KH incarnations, not FFVII's. If this were a 100% full Nojima thing, wouldn't it be weird how he would distance completely from the script that he had made for the original game himself with the guidance of Sakaguchi only to turn them into KH characters? And the film's quality is a direct result of Nomura's directing as well. The pacing, scene composition, and characters were all over the place, and it is director's job to frame everything together to fulfill his vision for the film. He doesn't deserve this much defending when he was the major responsible for so many bad things the franchise had to endure.

And you're inflating his contributions to the original game. He was a battle planner, yes, but most of what he did in that are was designed around concepts that Sakaguchi put forth in the previous entries up to IV, and him pushing for a fresh take on the ATB formula with Limit Breaks and the Materia System. I'm not saying that flashy gameplay in itself is bad, but Nomura only focuses on that in particular, and lacks understanding of what makes a gameplay stand out and last for decades, what makes the gameplay coherent to the game in question. And the storyboarding wasn't spearheaded by him at all. He contributed to them as he already had experience as a monster designer back in the SNES games.. Sakaguchi wrote the better part of the game and characters. He didn't simply "drop out" as more that he focused on getting Chrono done. But don't forget that the major plot points and some of the major characters' whole arcs were made by Sakaguchi himself. FFVII's whole emotional baggage and universal appeal comes from him wanting to make a story that would revolve around the themes of life, death, acceptance and spiritualism that he got inspired by after the death of his mother prior to the conception of the story. Aerith's death was completely designed around this feeling that Sakaguchi had and he wanted to make a game that would reflect these emotions. Nomura didn't direct that scene at all, my dude. And the script was completed mostly by Nojima, with Nomura having a minor role with certain characters arcs, most notably Vincent's. And this should be obvious given his attachment to the character when he wanted to put him in KH, Disney said no, and instead put Cloud in Vincent's costume.

So no, he is getting the credit he deserves bc he had little weight on the complete picture. I never said he only worked as a character designer, but that he is only excellent at doing just that. He is not someone that should be hired as a director or writer.
And considering S-E has a lack of people from the old days there anymore, it's hard to pinpoint other options, but Kitase directing the game again would be so much more better than Nomura. Heck, give someone from the Chrono team a shot at it. Or, the ideal outcome, hire Sakaguchi and his staff, now working as freelancers, to return and command the project. Nomura can be substituted by a lot of people in and out of S-E.

To be fair, on the front of Advent Children, having Cloud go through a path of forgiving himself is actually something I liked. Makes sense almost, It just could've been executed a lot better.

I respectfully disagree. His path in the film is only nice if you ignore the fact that the original game already had this arc and ended with Cloud at a high point, with self-forgiveness and overcoming all of the odds. The game's final act and ending capitalizes on this extremely well, and having AC portray Cloud at an even worse point than in any part of the original game, repeating problems that he did overcome previously, and acting way out of character doesn't make sense at all.

I would actually like for SE to leave the development of newer FF to younger members, like Nintendo is doing with some of their franchises. Last mainline FF that I really liked was XII, but Matsuno is now a freelance and he has a pretty good track with games he directed. And other than Taro, who I feel should do his own thing rather than FF, I don't like many of the current SE staff outside the Bravely team and the DQ team.

Bravely Default even with its faults, managed the same themes of FFXIII in a better way and was a better game overall.

Being honest here, I think they should switch their current FF team with the devs that Sakaguchi and co had under their belt, and let their own apprentices be their successors. S-E's corporate culture and terrible rolemodels make it way too risky and complicated to leave to them to continue on with FF.
I know this is way too much of wishful thinking, but this is what I think would be best. To be frank, as a fan, I think if S-E dissolved back into Squaresoft and Enix, Nintendo buying FF and Xenogears from Squaresoft and leave these properties under Monolithsoft and Sakaguchi's freelance team (much like Sakurai does with Smash Bros) would be the best thing possible. Then again, I know this is even more impossible than the previous suggestion. XD

I will never not hate that. Even as someone who doesn't really care much for FFVII, what Nomura did to Cloud was just lame.

Nomura Cloud: Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
FFVII Cloud: Alright, let's mosey.

It just doesn't work, man.

I wish I could like this comment more than once. <3

 

[Deleted member]

This post is gonna be a little rushed 'cause I have to go to work. =[

*cannon

I'm over it. You catch my drift.

Uhhhh... People were unsatisfied with the ending? What?

Yup. Believe it or not. I've met and spoken to a number of fans and casuals that played it, beat it, then hated it.

I've lived through the game's launch for years onwards in the fanbase. People loved the characters so much they wanted to see them again in some form. They weren't asking for a sequel necessarily, but they wanted to see them in something like a remaster, a remake or even a prequel (which they eventually did, but following the design philosophy of the later S-E employees and abiding to the garbage-tier narrative and OCs). The problem is that they did fanservice wrong and mischaracterized the characters tremendously. Cloud and Barret were butchered, Red XIII lost any sort of relevance he had, the plot lost itself amidst Nomura-directed or influenced narrative. SE doesn't know how to do movies bc they lacked the people for that. Spirits Within was a mistake, but was just one mistake in Sakaguchi's huge list of accomplishments and credits for writing some of the best stories in gaming. And you're wrong. Nojima wasn't the one that asked for the film to be made. He penned the script later bc he was asked to do that by Nomura and S-E's higherups. Nomura followed suit to the film idea bc of his own success with the first KH game, and wanted to make a FFVII project that he would be responsible for. Him as a director was a driving force behind how the characters should be portrayed, and they are faithful to their KH incarnations, not FFVII's. If this were a 100% full Nojima thing, wouldn't it be weird how he would distance completely from the script that he had made for the original game himself with the guidance of Sakaguchi only to turn them into KH characters? And the film's quality is a direct result of Nomura's directing as well. The pacing, scene composition, and characters were all over the place, and it is director's job to frame everything together to fulfill his vision for the film. He doesn't deserve this much defending when he was the major responsible for so many bad things the franchise had to endure.

Again, Nomura wasn't the only one working on the movie and wasn't the only influence. Therefore all the blame for AC cannot be put on him. And it was Nojima's idea to make the movie. Not Nomura's. In fact Nomura thought that the movie was only going to be a short 20 minute movie but when they changed the direction of AC which he was skeptical about but still took the job despite having no knowledge in directing movies. And I'm not saying Nojima is 100% responsible but if we're gonna hold anybody responsible it should be SE as a whole. Not just one man with a directing gig. You also gotta remember that a lot of people still enjoyed AC for it's cool looking flashy battle scenes. That was definately Nomura pullling the strings there and maybe had more say there than he did in other parts of the movie like character development for example. I dunno, I'm only assuming but to pretend that the only one guy had something to do with hurting VII is ignorant. No offense.

All I'm saying is: It's not completely Nomura's fault. Is it partially? Yes but not entirely. Give the guy a break because I'm sure there are more realistic things to antagonize him on other than "HE DESTROYED THE ENDING" when he was not the only one involved. I will repeat myself when I say that SE doesn't know how to do movies. It's not gonna be the same for them making a movie compared to Hollywood so I can only imagine how drastically different it must be behind the scenes than what we are aware of.

And you're inflating his contributions to the original game. He was a battle planner, yes, but most of what he did in that are was designed around concepts that Sakaguchi put forth in the previous entries up to IV, and him pushing for a fresh take on the ATB formula with Limit Breaks and the Materia System. I'm not saying that flashy gameplay in itself is bad, but Nomura only focuses on that in particular, and lacks understanding of what makes a gameplay stand out and last for decades, what makes the gameplay coherent to the game in question. And the storyboarding wasn't spearheaded by him at all. He contributed to them as he already had experience as a monster designer back in the SNES games.. Sakaguchi wrote the better part of the game and characters. He didn't simply "drop out" as more that he focused on getting Chrono done. But don't forget that the major plot points and some of the major characters' whole arcs were made by Sakaguchi himself. FFVII's whole emotional baggage and universal appeal comes from him wanting to make a story that would revolve around the themes of life, death, acceptance and spiritualism that he got inspired by after the death of his mother prior to the conception of the story. Aerith's death was completely designed around this feeling that Sakaguchi had and he wanted to make a game that would reflect these emotions. Nomura didn't direct that scene at all, my dude. And the script was completed mostly by Nojima, with Nomura having a minor role with certain characters arcs, most notably Vincent's. And this should be obvious given his attachment to the character when he wanted to put him in KH, Disney said no, and instead put Cloud in Vincent's costume.

I'm not inflating anything. I'm mentioning what you either forgot to mention or you just did not know. You only said he was a character designer and participated in Vincents backstory but failed to mention everything else he offered. He had a surprising amount of influence on VII if you actually do your research. Fact: Limit Breaks were Nomura's idea. Do not tell me that he had nothing to do with the original game when he created the idea and designed the animations for one of the games most important battle concepts. Again, that's being ignorant. He didn't spearhead the animations and story boarding for summons, because they were obviously going to be a thing in the first place lol. He designed them and the animations and he did a good job.

You're right though, it was Sakaguchi that created the plot points and the original script for the game but you have to remember that he only wrote the original script and it is drastically different to the finished project we have now. I know that stuff with his mom dying and how it's related to Aerith's death blah blah blah yes, yes, I know but you need to realize that Kitase, Nojima and Nomura were ones that evolved on it and fleshed it out. They were the ones that gave it meaning. They took Sakaguchi's idea, and they expanded upon it. Nomura didn't direct any of these scenes though but he definitely had something to do with how it was presented. I was making the point that it's kind of like directing. Again, that's a fact and it is something you either purposely ignored because you hate him or you don't know.

It's okay to not know if you don't. It was a surprising revelation for me when I was reading up on how much he actually had to do with the original game reading old archived interviews on lifestream but it's not like he had zero influence on the game at all. He had a lot. And I'm glad they're putting someone in the director seat that had a lot of influence rather than some no name that wasn't even around in the 90's,

I'm not gonna mentiong KH though 'cause imo, Kingdom Hearts is lame.

So no, he is getting the credit he deserves

No he's not because you failed to mention the other things he worked on. You said he designed characters and worked on Vincents story.

On top of like a hundred other things. =/ You're really undermining how much influence he truly had.

bc he had little weight on the complete picture. I never said he only worked as a character designer, but that he is only excellent at doing just that. He is not someone that should be hired as a director or writer.

And I think you're wrong. He's directed games before. KH2 is widely considered a fantastic ARPG by most of their fans and even those that don't like KH. And guess who directed that? He has an okay track record so don't go off spuing he shouldn't be a director when he has plenty of experience at it.

 

[MajoraMan28]

This post is gonna be a little rushed 'cause I have to go to work. =[



I'm over it. You catch my drift.



Yup. Believe it or not. I've met and spoken to a number of fans and casuals that played it, beat it, then hated it.



Again, Nomura wasn't the only one working on the movie and wasn't the only influence. Therefore all the blame for AC cannot be put on him. And it was Nojima's idea to make the movie. Not Nomura's. In fact Nomura thought that the movie was only going to be a short 20 minute movie but when they changed the direction of AC which he was skeptical about but still took the job despite having no knowledge in directing movies. And I'm not saying Nojima is 100% responsible but if we're gonna hold anybody responsible it should be SE as a whole. Not just one man with a directing gig. You also gotta remember that a lot of people still enjoyed AC for it's cool looking flashy battle scenes. That was definately Nomura pullling the strings there and maybe had more say there than he did in other parts of the movie like character development for example. I dunno, I'm only assuming but to pretend that the only one guy had something to do with hurting VII is ignorant. No offense.

All I'm saying is: It's not completely Nomura's fault. Is it partially? Yes but not entirely. Give the guy a break because I'm sure there are more realistic things to antagonize him on other than "HE DESTROYED THE ENDING" when he was not the only one involved. I will repeat myself when I say that SE doesn't know how to do movies. It's not gonna be the same for them making a movie compared to Hollywood so I can only imagine how drastically different it must be behind the scenes than what we are aware of.



I'm not inflating anything. I'm mentioning what you either forgot to mention or you just did not know. You only said he was a character designer and participated in Vincents backstory but failed to mention everything else he offered. He had a surprising amount of influence on VII if you actually do your research. Fact: Limit Breaks were Nomura's idea. Do not tell me that he had nothing to do with the original game when he created the idea and designed the animations for one of the games most important battle concepts. Again, that's being ignorant. He didn't spearhead the animations and story boarding for summons, because they were obviously going to be a thing in the first place lol. He designed them and the animations and he did a good job.

You're right though, it was Sakaguchi that created the plot points and the original script for the game but you have to remember that he only wrote the original script and it is drastically different to the finished project we have now. I know that stuff with his mom dying and how it's related to Aerith's death blah blah blah yes, yes, I know but you need to realize that Kitase, Nojima and Nomura were ones that evolved on it and fleshed it out. They were the ones that gave it meaning. They took Sakaguchi's idea, and they expanded upon it. Nomura didn't direct any of these scenes though but he definitely had something to do with how it was presented. I was making the point that it's kind of like directing. Again, that's a fact and it is something you either purposely ignored because you hate him or you don't know.

It's okay to not know if you don't. It was a surprising revelation for me when I was reading up on how much he actually had to do with the original game reading old archived interviews on lifestream but it's not like he had zero influence on the game at all. He had a lot. And I'm glad they're putting someone in the director seat that had a lot of influence rather than some no name that wasn't even around in the 90's,

I'm not gonna mentiong KH though 'cause imo, Kingdom Hearts is lame.



No he's not because you failed to mention the other things he worked on. You said he designed characters and worked on Vincents story.

On top of like a hundred other things. =/ You're really undermining how much influence he truly had.



And I think you're wrong. He's directed games before. KH2 is widely considered a fantastic ARPG by most of their fans and even those that don't like KH. And guess who directed that? He has an okay track record so don't go off spuing he shouldn't be a director when he has plenty of experience at it.

Lmfao, I don't know which fans you hanged out with, but I guarantee you I had my fair share of time on forums and among the community to tell that the ending was one of the game's most loved aspects.

And I'm sorry dude, but you're again inflating quite a lot of what I said.
Read my post again. I never stated that he only did the design and Vincent's backstory. I said those were his main contributions bc those were the things that he spearheaded himself. Other tasks were stuff that he wasn't the one to have the final say and was only following suit to the planning the Kitase had in mind alongside Sakaguchi's supervision.
Regarding AC, you're once again putting words into my mouth. Yes, S-E as a whole is to blame for the film, after all, their corporate culture shifted. But what I said was that Nomura is the main one to blame, due to the power he had in hand to make the film worthwhile and respect its origins. Nomura was more interested in doing flashy action scenes than be faithful to the characters, pushing for them to be aligned with the vision he gave life to in his KH series. Nojima wrote the script for the film, again, bc the higherups asked to. It was their decision for a film to be made, and it was Nomura and Nojima that took the helm of making AC the way it is. So instead of calling people ignorant, try to read carefully what people who disagree with you say and try to be less disrespectful. Nobody generalized the ****storm on Nomura, only that he is one of, if not THE, main force behind it.
>Also implying Hollywood even makes excellent films these days like they did decades ago

Again, I already said other things he did to the game, but weren't his main credited works, given that his other tasks were supervised and directed by other people. And idk man, saying Nomura invented the Limit Break when a very similar mechanic already existed in VI, and was pushed for a return with tweaks as suggested by Sakaguchi, is a bit of a stretch.

Uhhhh... yes, Kitase, Nomura and Nojima finished the script, but you forget that Sakaguchi supervised the entire thing as development progressed.
You forget that the main plot points, the characters' personality and the skeleton of a good portion of the arcs were conceived by him. You say it as if he simply peaced out of the project and the three men were responsible for the entire thing being the way it is, when in fact Sakaguchi was the main supervisor for the game's plot, script and helped out Kitase a ton in the game. Heck, he was the main producer of the project.
Also, you're speculating the amount of influence Nomura even had in the conception of the story's cutscenes. Nomura wasn't the scene director for anything. He designed, animated and helped being the main battle planner, but the plot and cutscenes weren't his job at all. Saying he "had something to do with them" and skipping to directiorial skills is very far fetched. It's not me hating on Nomura. I love him at the job he knows to do best. Putting him outside of his field of expertise is reckless, and I'm entitled to criticize his already proven track record of being a bad story teller and director. You're inflating his importance in the plot conception.

Again, you put words into my mouth. Never did I say that he wasn't important to the original game or had zero influence. I already stated quite clearly what his main roles were. But you need to understand that not anyone can be a good director, and just because he worked on the original game doesn't mean he is a good director or a writer. Yes, I wish the responsible for the project would be someone from the old days, but one that is capable for the job.

My dude, chill. If you like his content, all the power to you.
But I have the right to think and say that his work has been garbage and is not even close to the quality of the original leaders of the classic FF projects.
And saying that he directed KH2 is absolutely irrelevant and null to the point at hand. Nobody said that he has no experience as a director. On the contrary. The fact that he has that experience let's us see how bad he actually is for the job at hand.
And let me remind you that KH2's impact comes from the combat that was solid even for a button masher. The story fell completely apart from that game onwards. The scene directing of some of the scenes in that game were not good at all. The game's strength lies in its gameplay and how the world exploration was dealt with (alongside piggybacking on Disney and S-E nostalgia, which isn't bad in itself).

I don't want to say this to ruin your hype for the remake. You can have it all you want, and if you like his work, fine by me, and I hope you're happy with what the Remake will become. But to me, it's just not my cup of tea, and his work hasn't been faithful to the original game whatsoever.

 

[NomadLuminary]

A random thought just came up. Imagine if we got Lightning or Noctis over Cloud.

 

[EarlTamm]

A random thought just came up. Imagine if we got Lightning or Noctis over Cloud.

People would be mad at Lightning for sure. Not too sure about Noctis, as I have limited FF knowledge.

 

[Teeb147]

Lmfao, I don't know which fans you hanged out with, but I guarantee you I had my fair share of time on forums and among the community to tell that the ending was one of the game's most loved aspects.

And I'm sorry dude, but you're again inflating quite a lot of what I said.
Read my post again. I never stated that he only did the design and Vincent's backstory. I said those were his main contributions bc those were the things that he spearheaded himself. Other tasks were stuff that he wasn't the one to have the final say and was only following suit to the planning the Kitase had in mind alongside Sakaguchi's supervision.
Regarding AC, you're once again putting words into my mouth. Yes, S-E as a whole is to blame for the film, after all, their corporate culture shifted. But what I said was that Nomura is the main one to blame, due to the power he had in hand to make the film worthwhile and respect its origins. Nomura was more interested in doing flashy action scenes than be faithful to the characters, pushing for them to be aligned with the vision he gave life to in his KH series. Nojima wrote the script for the film, again, bc the higherups asked to. It was their decision for a film to be made, and it was Nomura and Nojima that took the helm of making AC the way it is. So instead of calling people ignorant, try to read carefully what people who disagree with you say and try to be less disrespectful. Nobody generalized the ****storm on Nomura, only that he is one of, if not THE, main force behind it.
>Also implying Hollywood even makes excellent films these days like they did decades ago

Again, I already said other things he did to the game, but weren't his main credited works, given that his other tasks were supervised and directed by other people. And idk man, saying Nomura invented the Limit Break when a very similar mechanic already existed in VI, and was pushed for a return with tweaks as suggested by Sakaguchi, is a bit of a stretch.

Uhhhh... yes, Kitase, Nomura and Nojima finished the script, but you forget that Sakaguchi supervised the entire thing as development progressed.
You forget that the main plot points, the characters' personality and the skeleton of a good portion of the arcs were conceived by him. You say it as if he simply peaced out of the project and the three men were responsible for the entire thing being the way it is, when in fact Sakaguchi was the main supervisor for the game's plot, script and helped out Kitase a ton in the game. Heck, he was the main producer of the project.
Also, you're speculating the amount of influence Nomura even had in the conception of the story's cutscenes. Nomura wasn't the scene director for anything. He designed, animated and helped being the main battle planner, but the plot and cutscenes weren't his job at all. Saying he "had something to do with them" and skipping to directiorial skills is very far fetched. It's not me hating on Nomura. I love him at the job he knows to do best. Putting him outside of his field of expertise is reckless, and I'm entitled to criticize his already proven track record of being a bad story teller and director. You're inflating his importance in the plot conception.

Again, you put words into my mouth. Never did I say that he wasn't important to the original game or had zero influence. I already stated quite clearly what his main roles were. But you need to understand that not anyone can be a good director, and just because he worked on the original game doesn't mean he is a good director or a writer. Yes, I wish the responsible for the project would be someone from the old days, but one that is capable for the job.

My dude, chill. If you like his content, all the power to you.
But I have the right to think and say that his work has been garbage and is not even close to the quality of the original leaders of the classic FF projects.
And saying that he directed KH2 is absolutely irrelevant and null to the point at hand. Nobody said that he has no experience as a director. On the contrary. The fact that he has that experience let's us see how bad he actually is for the job at hand.
And let me remind you that KH2's impact comes from the combat that was solid even for a button masher. The story fell completely apart from that game onwards. The scene directing of some of the scenes in that game were not good at all. The game's strength lies in its gameplay and how the world exploration was dealt with (alongside piggybacking on Disney and S-E nostalgia, which isn't bad in itself).

I don't want to say this to ruin your hype for the remake. You can have it all you want, and if you like his work, fine by me, and I hope you're happy with what the Remake will become. But to me, it's just not my cup of tea, and his work hasn't been faithful to the original game whatsoever.

I think that being negative about work that many people have enjoyed to the point of calling it garbage is going to be counter-productive. Many would agree that they could do a lot better. Doesn't mean it's good to ignore everything good about it.

A random thought just came up. Imagine if we got Lightning or Noctis over Cloud.

Lots of people would've been upset. Not me, but not because I think FF13 is a better game (I just like the character), that's for sure

 

[PolarPanda]

I appreciate that I can share things here without being called a “4chan tier random” like I was on ERA :/ Though it was just one user, I try to be as transparent as possible to avoid those kinds of hate.

 

[Deleted member]

I appreciate that I can share things here without being called a “4chan tier random” like I was on ERA :/ Though it was just one user, I try to be as transparent as possible to avoid those kinds of hate.

At least in my case, I will try to defend you from any kind of harassment.

 

[Ovaltine]

I appreciate that I can share things here without being called a “4chan tier random” like I was on ERA :/ Though it was just one user, I try to be as transparent as possible to avoid those kinds of hate.

Honestly, I was lurking that thread, and while I understand the points about the Power Rangers leak and agree that manner of leaking was a mistake, those remarks were still so uncalled for. Also, ain't it contradictory that they're like, "Oh, you're just a rando!" while in the same breath being upset at you for leaking something that... was 100% accurate and real and... not at all 4chan tier random?

I guess all I can recommend is treading more carefully from now on, but when it comes to ERA, ehhh... I wouldn't give them much thought beyond a grain of salt. Criticism is fine, but ad hominem is another.