[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[ZelDan]

Over/Under 20% that we are getting an out of nowhere Pokemon fighter as the DLC xD

I highly doubt we are getting a pokemon newcomer for Smash from the direct tomorrow, but maybe I'm just too optimistic.

 

[Icewolff92]

Would they? Hmmmm...

History doesn't deny the possibility. **** me, it's possible.

Probably under 20%, though. FE Fates was at least out in Japan when Corrin was revealed, so she at least had that going for her. I doubt Nintendo would make a Gen 8 starter a character when the entire world knows nothing about it so far. It's not possible tomorrow, but maybe it could be one of the last DLC fighters revealed to let give it time for them sink in.

Or maybe they just wont do it at all and save me the agony of more Pokemon, but as DLC.

I highly doubt we are getting a pokemon newcomer for Smash from the direct tomorrow, but maybe I'm just too optimistic.

I'm with you both. Granted, it is just a hunch, but I would not be so shocked if Nintendo has at least 1-2 characters as marketing DLC for their own games (in this cause a Three House character and or Pokemon most likely) which is why I'm asking. I know that it's not a popular notion, but I think it's better to be happily surprised than

 

[Deleted member]

I'm with you both. Granted, it is just a hunch, but I would not be so shocked if Nintendo has at least 1-2 characters as marketing DLC for their own games (in this cause a Three House character and or Pokemon most likely) which is why I'm asking. I know that it's not a popular notion, but I think it's better to be happily surprised than

It's not evidence, but I remember this article dedicated to this one employee who was like, "Man. All of these DLC fighters are going to be as surprising as PPlant and I wouldn't miss them for the world." I would like to interpret what he's saying will be related to games that have already come out. We'll have to wait and see. We know at least two are a SE character and a Microsoft character from pure rumors.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This movie looks far better then it has any right to be.. This might be the first legitimately good video game adaptation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bILE5BEyhdo&t=0s

Castlevania says hi.

 

[Icewolff92]

Castlevania says hi.

I was thinking more in terms of live action movies. But yes you are absolutely right that Castlevania is awesome.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I was thinking more in terms of live action movies. But yes you are absolutely right that Castlevania is awesome.

Then... Mortal Kombat was kinda neat?

 

[Icewolff92]

It's not evidence, but I remember this article dedicated to this one employee who was like, "Man. All of these DLC fighters are going to be as surprising as PPlant and I wouldn't miss them for the world." I would like to interpret what he's saying will be related to games that have already come out. We'll have to wait and see. We know at least two are a SE character and a Microsoft character from pure rumors.

Of course, they are going to say that. They want to hype them up so that more people are going to buy the pass already. And judging by everyones reaction when someone mentions the idea of the chances of Nintendo uses DLC to promote games, it still pretty much stands corrected with that statement.

At least two are SE characters? Wait what did I miss???

Then... Mortal Kombat was kinda neat?

If you like it, that's awesome.... but I don't like it at all

 

[Deleted member]

Of course, they are going to say that. They want to hype them up so that more people are going to buy the pass already. And judging by everyones reaction when someone mentions the idea of the chances of Nintendo uses DLC to promote games, it still pretty much stands corrected with that statement.

At least two are SE characters? Wait what did I miss???

Fair enough. We'll just have to wait and see.

And I meant that out of 2 DLC characters, 1 will be a SE character and 1 will be a Microsoft character. 1 SE Guy + 1 Microsoft Guy = 2 Characters

 

[Icewolff92]

Fair enough. We'll just have to wait and see.

And I meant that out of 2 DLC characters, 1 will be a SE character and 1 will be a Microsoft character. 1 SE Guy + 1 Microsoft Guy = 2 Characters

Ah okay.

 

[Rumble Red]

A 7-minute direct seems like it'll hardly have room for a Pokémon announcement, never mind Smash. With a whole Smash direct probably on the horizon, they'd probably wait for that to reveal the character even if it was a Pokémon. This is gonna be Gen 8's show.

 

[Icewolff92]

A 7-minute direct seems like it'll hardly have room for a Pokémon announcement, never mind Smash. With a whole Smash direct probably on the horizon, they'd probably wait for that to reveal the character even if it was a Pokémon. This is gonna be Gen 8's show.

I wouldn't disqualify the chances. Start with the trailer that could easily be around 3 minutes, talk about it for 2-3 and then have the rest be "the smash reveal". I think its highly unlikely which is why I said 20% but weirder things have happened with Nintendo which is why I thought of bringing it up

 

[TheCJBrine]

Gen 8 Pokemon is Brave.

It's a bird starter that can learn Brave Bird early on.

 

[Icewolff92]

Gen 8 Pokemon is Brave.

It's a bird starter that can learn Brave Bird early on.

I would genuinely laugh out loud if that would actually be the cause.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

We know at least two are a SE character and a Microsoft character from pure rumors.

Pffft. They're just rumors. Not even proven yet or if they'll ever be. We don't know squat for sure.

 

[Nazyrus]

I want to clap at nintendo for avoiding any solid leaks on Smash DLC, and the new pokemon game… how the hell have things changed since last time for both franchises that got terribly leaked in both cases.

 

[DaxMasterix]

I want to clap at nintendo for avoiding any solid leaks on Smash DLC, and the new pokemon game… how the hell have things changed since last time for both franchises that got terribly leaked in both cases.

Spoiler: Pokemon Stuff

Pokemon Control, Pokemon Chaos

(?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Spoiler: Pokemon Stuff

Pokemon Control, Pokemon Chaos

(?

My Sonic senses are tingling.

 

[perfectchaos83]

A 7-minute direct seems like it'll hardly have room for a Pokémon announcement, never mind Smash. With a whole Smash direct probably on the horizon, they'd probably wait for that to reveal the character even if it was a Pokémon. This is gonna be Gen 8's show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE9WJWp8zvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMHLx8G1_G4

7 minutes is more than enough time for gen 8

 

[Icewolff92]

So Melee is not at Evo? Can't say that I'm complaining

 

[TheCJBrine]

I want to clap at nintendo for avoiding any solid leaks on Smash DLC, and the new pokemon game… how the hell have things changed since last time for both franchises that got terribly leaked in both cases.

inb4 the Crown & Scepter Pokemon leaks are real.

As cool as they would be imo, I'm expecting these leaks to have their clocks broken by Sans the Duskull.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I want to clap at nintendo for avoiding any solid leaks on Smash DLC, and the new pokemon game… how the hell have things changed since last time for both franchises that got terribly leaked in both cases.

Sm4sh DLC never got leaked.

The only "leaked" Smash DLC was when dataminers found Ryu and Roy in the files of the game. Tansut did technically "leak" Cloud, but it was a code leak which I don't really count.

We've only had the same things happen this cycle, except Nintendo learned with the dataminers, hence "Jack" and "Brave." Tansut straight up leaked Erdrick, and if we consider the 5chan leak to be true, Joker and Erdrick were leaked I guess.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So Melee is not at Evo? Can't say that I'm complaining

Feels like the end of an Era with Melee not at Evo, but it was bound to happen. IMO, it doesn't matter, this Year's Evo line-up is simply incredible

 

[Deleted member]

Feels like the end of an Era with Melee not at Evo, but it was bound to happen. IMO, it doesn't matter, this Year's Evo line-up is simply incredible

It was bound to happen sooner or later, considering the absolute logistical nightmare it is. It's unfortunate, but I think the Melee community should have seen it coming sooner or later.
That said though, the EVO lineup this year is incredible. Great to see more niche games get some spotlight along with the standard stuff and some more underrepresented games.

 

[ZelDan]

Melee couldn't have been part of EVO forever, so it was bound to happen.

That said, Is that Under Night game actually a popular game or well known to any extent? Seriously, the first time I heard of that game was when it was part of that Blazblue crosstag game. Not saying that Under Night shouldn't be part of EVO or trying to hate on it, just kinda curious how viewership will compare to past EVOs, when, AFAIK, Melee was actually popular for EVO, while Under Night I'm guessing is more Niche? Or do new games actually garner MORE viewership due to being something different and something less familiar? I don't really follow EVO or fighting games outside of Smash, so I don't really know the answers to these questions.

 

[Idon]

Melee couldn't have been part of EVO forever, so it was bound to happen.

That said, Is that Under Night game actually a popular game or well known to any extent? Seriously, the first time I heard of that game was when it was part of that Blazblue crosstag game. Not saying that Under Night shouldn't be part of EVO or trying to hate on it, just kinda curious how viewership will compare to past EVOs, when, AFAIK, Melee was actually popular for EVO, while Under Night I'm guessing is more Niche? Or do new games actually garner MORE viewership due to being something different and something less familiar? I don't really follow EVO or fighting games outside of Smash, so I don't really know the answers to these questions.

Yeah it's niche. Compared to other anime fighters though, fairly popular.

When people make jokes about hotel bathroom grand finals or parking lot tournaments they're talking about UNIST and Melty Blood.

It'll probably take a substantial hit in viewership by comparison, but it's a great way to expose people to lesser known but dedicated games and fanbases.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Melee couldn't have been part of EVO forever, so it was bound to happen.

That said, Is that Under Night game actually a popular game or well known to any extent? Seriously, the first time I heard of that game was when it was part of that Blazblue crosstag game. Not saying that Under Night shouldn't be part of EVO or trying to hate on it, just kinda curious how viewership will compare to past EVOs, when, AFAIK, Melee was actually popular for EVO, while Under Night I'm guessing is more Niche? Or do new games actually garner MORE viewership due to being something different and something less familiar? I don't really follow EVO or fighting games outside of Smash, so I don't really know the answers to these questions.

UNIEL is basically the "Melee" this year. It's always had it's community try to get into EVO. This year, MrWiz seems to be throwing them a bone and I'm all for it. In all honesty, this will be pretty big for UNIEL as a whole.

 

[Icewolff92]

No offense to any fan of Melee here, but I have personally not understood how so many people see it as the "glory standard" of Smash Bros game when it is essentially abusing the glitches with Fox McCloud the video game if you want to be a "pro" in that game. It has not aged well at all

 

[Idon]

No offense to any fan of Melee here, but I have personally not understood how so many people see it as the "glory standard" of Smash Bros game when it is essentially abusing the glitches with Fox McCloud the video game if you want to be a "pro" in that game. It has not aged well at all

Because it's fun to play and fun to watch. It's an ugly game, but its gameplay is why Melee fans have come back year after year.

 

[perfectchaos83]

When people make jokes about hotel bathroom grand finals or parking lot tournaments they're talking about UNIST and Melty Blood.

While browsing twitter I found this. Didn't imagine it to be so literal. XD

https://twitter.com/Evilspacewhale/status/1100617038312210432

No offense to any fan of Melee here, but I have personally not understood how so many people see it as the "glory standard" of Smash Bros game when it is essentially abusing the glitches with Fox McCloud the video game if you want to be a "pro" in that game. It has not aged well at all

Melee is entertaining as **** to watch, all things considered.

 

[Idon]

While browsing twitter I found this. Didn't imagine it to be so literal. XD

https://twitter.com/Evilspacewhale/status/1100617038312210432



Melee is entertaining as **** to watch, all things considered.

Haha, that's the famous image.

Yeah, the level of niche dedication but low budget has earned them the nickname "poverty fighters."

 

[Icewolff92]

Because it's fun to play and fun to watch. It's an ugly game, but its gameplay is why Melee fans have come back year after year.

Melee is entertaining as **** to watch, all things considered.

I have to disagree since watching Melee tournaments for me is like watching a smash 4 tournament where the majority of players is pre-patched Bayonetta and Cloud. But I'm glad you enjoy it.

 

[Idon]

I have to disagree since watching Melee tournaments for me is like watching a smash 4 tournament where the majority of players is pre-patched Bayonetta and Cloud. But I'm glad you enjoy it.

Well, I got that, just wanted to clear up why people like Melee.

 

[Icewolff92]

Well, I got that, just wanted to clear up why people like Melee.

You only said "because its fun to play and watch. Not why though which is what my biggest question was.

 

[Idon]

You only said "because its fun to play and watch. Not why though which is what my biggest question was.

Melee's a unique game that allows for an extremely large expression of skill and character knowledge combined with a movement system that allows for a huge amount of options, both offensive ans decensive. This makes for a fast and punishing game where people live and die by minute microdecisions made by the tenth of a second, where both upsets and brutal beatdowns even with 4 whole lives are possible. In short, fun to play, fun to watch.

That's why Melee's maintained popularity throughout the years and why no one really cares about the glitches. A fun glitchfest is far better than an unfun glitchless bore.

And this is coming from a guy who hasn't even played Melee in 5 years.

 

[TheYungLink]

It makes perfect sense why Ultimate would finally be the game that dethroned Melee from EVO support. It's because it's the closest thing we have to a true Melee replacement in terms of gameplay.

Gather round, errywun. We're going down memory lane tonight [I wrote a lot, lol]. I'm going to focus on why I liked Melee in terms of its gameplay (though I loved everything else about it too) and how that affected how I and lots of other fans viewed the sequels.

Melee's gameplay system, even today, feels extremely sharp. Putting aside exploits (they're not glitches) like wavedashing and SHFFLing (which I'll get to), the physics feel so damn GOOD. Everything is fast, and EXTREMELY responsive. A few things make it a little clunky to go back to, like having to stand still to pick up items and not being able to grab the ledge if you're facing backward, but overall everything flowed. Unless I'm mistaken, Melee is still the only game in the series where, like an actual platformer (which its gameplay was always based on), your momentum made your jump go farther if you were running first. This made aerials workable from most positions on the relatively small or medium sized stages that Melee was chock full of. Seeing someone in a position seemingly far away that you can still capitalize on with a good running start forward aerial, for example, was a big part of what made most matches a blast to play. Grabs and throws were still hype before later games would nerf them so only select characters like Ness and Incineroar had good throws--I remember trying to bait my friends and family into falling for my Mario grab, and tossing them with his famous Super Mario 64 back throw (which actually KO'd back then)!

All the advancements from Smash 64, like everyone getting an extra special move, all made Melee feel like a masterclass hall of fame contender. Better yet, it was like nothing else out there--though Smash has always been a chaotic party game, it was also the only multiplayer game with a deep, rewarding learning curve that eschewed a traditional health meter in favor of working to knock players off the stage, something that made Melee nothing like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Soulcalibur (kinda, that game still had ring-outs) or any other traditional fighting game out there.

I say all this as someone that never forgot how much fun I had, as a casual, completely unaware of things like tier lists and legal / illegal stages and all the advanced techniques. Everyone is always demonizing Melee just because they don't like the competitive scene (I have my praises and gripes with it myself) but, from 2001 to 2008, it was near universally agreed that Melee was a blast to play. Melee did not have its current negative reception until a few years after Brawl came out.

Everyone, myself included, was extremely excited about Brawl, but one thing almost everyone agreed on, especially since I suspect most of us were playing Melee every chance we could get up till release day, was that Brawl felt very different. Specifically, it was incredibly slow and floaty. I remember playing my very first match as Meta Knight against my brother on Brinstar, a stage from Melee, and noticing how slow he moved in the air compared to Wario. This was when I knew that, despite having lots more characters and stages than Melee, that it would not immediately replace it. It let players pick up items with dash attacks and tilts, as well as grab the ledge with your back, and air dodges no longer put you in free fall (I didn't like that I could do multiple ones in the air, however), but aside from that, it felt like a big step back (I remember being beyond confused when I tripped for the first time, and learning I couldn't turn it off). Despite having waited for Brawl for years, excited beyond compare, it wasn't the sequel I wanted, just a different entry with its own physics I didn't like. I played through The Subspace Emissary and had a lot more fun simply because the physics felt a little faster and snappier (I later confirmed this online, it's so weird SSE has different physics, WHAT) as well as going on an adventure with all these characters, but after about a year or two, I moved on. None of my friends and family wanted to go back to Melee even if it felt better for a lot of us, because Brawl had a lot of our most wanted characters in it...but we didn't like playing Brawl all that much. We all moved onto Mario Kart Wii and stuff like Halo and other popular multiplayer games that were coming out.

While Brawl got its own competitive scene, Brawl never made it to EVO. Melee did. I wasn't following the competitive scene at all but I distinctly remember thinking that it made complete sense, since even though it didn't have Brawl's roster it DID have better physics. It was around this time that I finally learned all the competitive jargon, rulesets, and exploits and advanced techniques that got Melee there in the first place. I also remember this being the time that hate toward Melee, particularly toward its competitive scene, was starting to get real trendy and popular, though not as mainstream as it was these days. No, the resentment toward Melee REALLY kicked into gear when Smash 4 got its first trailer in E3 2013.

Smash 4 would be revealed to have roster additions that catered directly to more casual Nintendo audiences catching stuff on social media and the grapevine, something it weaponized by making those character trailers we all love dearly the focus of the hype cycle this time. Instead of a lot of additions fans were expecting from Melee and Brawl's rosters, especially "old but 'important'" ones like King K. Rool and Brawl retro darlings (Lip, Takamaru, Isaac) it had characters from Animal Crossing (which was entering a golden era in popularity worldwide with the new 3DS game), a very popular and known but seldom-discussed Wii game (Wii Fit, the Miis count as well), a Mario newcomer that wasn't Waluigi or Daisy and was instead from one of the most beloved 3D Mario games of all time (and later Bowser Jr. would make it in, representing the second best selling Mario game of all time in Japan rather than Sunshine like many were expecting / hoping), a Pokemon that, for once, wasn't promoted by the anime (at least at the time) and from the most recent game in the series, and not one but TWO characters EACH from a game that completely revitalized interest in a once-niche series. On top of that, it brought back Sonic and added both Mega Man and Pac-Man, turning Smash 4 into a crossover of legendary proportions the likes we hadn't really seen before, plus cool retro and niche picks like Little Mac and Shulk. In short, characters were grabbing most people's attention this time.

Then the demo came out at kiosks in stores and, despite being a way snappier and prettier game than Brawl (I myself would play it far longer than I did Brawl, about a solid 3 years boosted by my dream third party pick Cloud finally making it in), it still had the momentum issues and spammy air dodges I disliked. Word spread, and the rivalry flared back up. People who thought that, because Smash 4 was obviously going to have more content than Melee, that everyone should abandon Melee completely were dealing with people that didn't like how the new game felt to play. It only worsened when EVO would go on to have, for a few years, TWO completely separate Smash games. This was understandable from a Smash fan perspective (their physics are WILDLY different), but not a more general one. Street Fighter and Guilty Gear don't get two completely different games in THEIR series on the main show, why does Smash get special treatment? The wider FGC found reason to resent Smash rather than merely mock it.

I dunno what EVO organizers thought about having both Melee (always by far the oldest game on the main show) and Smash 4 (the newest game with more stuff) onstage, but despite probably understanding why this was needed, it was probably seen as a liability to finally let a party game that fans impose lots of complicated rules on to make it a fighting game get on EVO but with TWO separate games. As exciting as Melee was, it was going to give way sooner or later.

Finally, we get to Smash Ultimate, our newest golden child. The game that, for the first time in the entire series, was being built as competitive from the ground up. EVERYTHING in the game reflects this, to the point where it arguably wants to be the Melee Killer more than any previous Smash game.

Remember those advanced techniques I said I was gonna talk about? Well, Smash Ultimate made an effort to adjust its physics to have their benefits while no longer needing the weird, complicated, and finger-intensive inputs for them.

• First up, L canceling, which halved your aerials' endlag by pressing Z, L, or R. An objectively stupid mechanic, made worse that Sakurai seems to have intentionally included it from the very beginning of the series, because once you learn about it there's no reason NOT to do it (it would have made me hog wild with anger if I knew about it back when I played Melee). Nonetheless, it made aerials on the ground more fun to use once you got the hang of doing your L / R pressing homework every time because you had more safe options to use. In general, people liked that in Melee you could mix aerials safely into your neutral game to mix up your tilts and smash attacks and stuff. People doing this as quickly as possible on the ground became known as SHFFLing (Short Hop, Fast Fall, Lag canceling). It was extremely intensive on your fingers though, especially in a fighting game with analog movement like Smash where delicately moving the control stick just right was always crucial. After simply taking out L cancelling in Brawl and Smash 4, Ultimate would finally make aerial landing lag way shorter across the board. The game now encourages using them on the ground with a new short hop attack shortcut so that micromanaging the control stick while pressing the A button and shield button JUST right was reduced to just pressing attack and jump simultaneously. Smash Ultimate even put in a general short hop shortcut in an update. In short, the benefits of L canceling were finally back without the ridiculous learning curve it previously demanded to maximize aerials with it.

• Next up, wavedashing. This is using the momentum from a directional air dodge directed into the ground to activate the "waveland" animation. Basically, during testing, the Melee team noticed that people could air dodge through soft platforms like the ones Battlefield had, and made it so characters would go into a landing animation on them instead of passing through, while sliding in the direction they input the air dodge in. Savvy players who discovered and experimented with the technique soon realized that, during the landing animation, you could immediately use any grounded attack. This blew the possibility space wide open, because people could now move fast without actually dashing. While dashing you could only do a few special moves, grabs, some Smash attacks, and specialized dash attacks, the latter of which was always very punishable due to their universally big endlag. Wavedashing, however, allowed players to perform virtually any grounded attack in the game as the situation called for it with enough finesse, and if the opponent was kinda far away then they could wavedash out of a regular dash as well. Finally, because players could wavedash backwards, characters now had a universal "backdash" option they lacked before, as Smash as made into a fighting game by fan rules is different from most fighting games in that you don't automatically face your opponent. Most players who don't know about wavedashing try to replicate back dashing by rolling backward out of shield, but as they soon learn it's incredibly easy to punish this. Wavedashing was much faster and you could act out of it nigh immediately. The problem with wavedashing was that it required even more dexterity than SHFFLing. To get the maximum distance needed from it, a player would need to jump for one frame, then IMMEDIATELY do a precise diagonal air dodge into the ground in the direction they want in the next frame, and, hopefully if they did it quickly enough, then push the stick in the precise direction with either the attack or special button needed to do the exact attack they wanted, all in less than 10 frames. Smash Ultimate finally addressed the benefits of wavedashing by making it so that, in the middle of dashing, you can just let go of the stick for one frame before immediately inputting the attack you wanted, even if you weren't facing your opponent. It's not perfect, as running away from an opponent means you can't reliably use up or down tilts / smashes that require facing your opponent (as only forward tilts / smashes / special moves turn you around), but that's okay because it means we have most of the benefits of wavedashing with a justifiable weakness (the Smash team clearly limited what moves you could do out of a dash so as to encourage players to walk more often, as that always gave them every option in the game). People who want wavedashing back are ignoring the benefits of this One Neat Trick.

• Finally, parrying. In Melee, you could block attacks and even reflect projectiles by pressing shield at the exact right moment. It was hard to do, though, so most everyone avoided relying on it too much. It's still difficult in Ultimate, but it's easier to pull off now because it happens when you RELEASE the shield button, making it easier to time. You still can't reflect projectiles, but at least you can block them. This gives people something to master if they feel they need it, despite it still being very precise.

Beyond this, characters are generally faster than before, matching the frantic and kinetic feel that Melee was the sole previous game to boast. Every character leaves the ground after inputting a jump at frame 3, severely helping the heavier characters like Bowser and Ganondorf who always struggled with grounded aerials. Lots of characters' dashes became faster. Non aerial attacks were also generally given either faster startup or reduced endlag. More than the two previous games combined, Smash Ultimate warmly welcomes giving almost every character LOTS of reliable options.

And even beyond those gameplay improvements, Ultimate gave players lots of legal stages. Compared to the amount of legal stages the previous games had, Smash Ultimate is finally growing its Big Kid pants and has more than 10. That's still tiny compared to the entire rest of the stage list, but it's a relative GOLD MINE compared to every previous Smash game. This is because of the stage hazard switch, making stages like Castle Siege and Pokemon Stadium 2 legal for the first time, and the now-standardized Battlefield and Omega versions of every stage, so people can mix it up if they get tired of BF and FD's default sky / space backgrounds without the baggage of Smash 4's frankly terrible Omega form switch.

...Did I mention? The last thing?

The thing that finally clinches Ultimate as, well, the ULTIMATE competitive Smash game?

It's balance.

Melee has an infamously low number of top tier characters. 7 is still pretty good for a 2001 sequel to a brand new genre of game, but it wears thin after a while for most casual viewers. Brawl was actually pretty okay at balance, except for the unbelievably dominating Meta Knight and Ice Climbers which nearly killed the scene multiple times. Smash 4 was doing okay at this for a while as the first game with regular patches, with WAY more viable characters, but Cloud and Bayonetta overcentralized the meta after their debuts. Smash Ultimate not only has all the physics changes and adjustments made to achieve the benefits of Melee's advanced tech without the input baggage, but it brings back every single character in the ENTIRE SERIES, and somehow did an EVEN BETTER job balancing than Smash 4 did (probably because Sakurai wasn't involved in balancing this time and let his team do it). I pray that none of the Fighter's Pass characters end up centralizing the meta too much like in Smash 4, but I think I won't have to worry. Unlike Smash 4, Ultimate is being made to last for a long time, just like the Nintendo Switch itself. I foresee constant patches that swoop in and fix dangerous stuff and hopefully buff the characters that need it for years to come.

All this is why, when you really look at it, having both Melee and Ultimate at EVO was going to be redundant. Ultimate is just so much more Melee than either Smash 4 or Brawl, and is better off for it. Melee will still be played for years to come, but as several of its players have expressed approval of Ultimate that they never did for the previous Smash games, we can expect the same passion that enveloped Melee to seep its way into Ultimate.

Ultimate has most likely finally conquered Melee. It was a long time coming.

...

...

Oh right this is the Square Seven thread uh WHY DID I TYPE ALL THIS UP AT LIKE 2 IN THE MORNING I'M GONNA MISS POKEMON AND IT'S NOT EVEN RELEVANT TO THE THREAD uhhh GO ERDRICK pls don't be the new Smash 4 Cloud or Bayo if you're real and not just leakbait *makes the Zoom sound effect and flies into the air out of the thread*

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

We've only had the same things happen this cycle, except Nintendo learned with the dataminers, hence "Jack" and "Brave." Tansut straight up leaked Erdrick, and if we consider the 5chan leak to be true, Joker and Erdrick were leaked I guess.

So, nothing even confirmed to be real yet. If they turn out to be bunk then Nintendo continues on with such great leak control.

 

[Namasura]

Seems like the region leak was correct? But not the title.

 

[EarlTamm]

I hope the third game is called wand, because I want to make a Kingdom Hearts joke.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Hoping for the old system to return.
The Let's Go thing really didn't click

 

[A.G.L.]

I hope the third game is called wand, because I want to make a Kingdom Hearts joke.

Haha that would be amazing if it comes true.