[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Luigi The President]

I don't recall saying Erdrick wouldn't be retro. However, DQ3 is considered the best DQ game, sure, but there were two before it. Slime was in both of those games, and I really think that they'd throw him in there especially because the little ******* started getting his own spin offs and crossovers. It just doesn't make sense to break tradition just for Smash to throw in Erdrick, especially when Slime has gotten its... lack of feet wet with Nintendo IP before.

I'm not calling into question DQ's chances of getting into this game, I'm calling into question who's gonna be the one to represent the franchise, and I genuinely believe it'd be Slime.

"Also catering to retro characters seems like it'd hurt Erdrick's chances tbh."

Don't quite know what this is implying otherwise.
I understand that Slime has been in these games but he's just been a mook. Erdrick led DQ3 in its entirety.
Cloud wasn't used in crossovers often at all until Smash. Chocobo and Moogle got their own spin-off games. This sounds familiar to me.

 

[Starblax]

"Also catering to retro characters seems like it'd hurt Erdrick's chances tbh."

Don't quite know what this is implying otherwise.
I understand that Slime has been in these games but he's just been a mook. Erdrick led DQ3 in its entirety.
Cloud wasn't used in crossovers often at all until Smash. Chocobo and Moogle got their own spin-off games. This sounds familiar to me.

yeah because Cloud is the face of FF. It's what people often think of first.

When I hear Dragon Quest, I usually think of Slime first, and I'm sure the same goes for many others.

 

[perfectchaos83]

yeah because Cloud is the face of FF. It's what people often think of first.

When I hear Dragon Quest, I usually think of Slime first, and I'm sure the same goes for many others.

In Japan, they are probably about equal. If given the choice, I'd rather have a character from the franchise rather than a mook.

 

[Luigi The President]

yeah because Cloud is the face of FF. It's what people often think of first.

When I hear Dragon Quest, I usually think of Slime first, and I'm sure the same goes for many others.

This doesn't really change my point though.
To probably all of Japan Erdrick comes to mind first. He is that iconic and still constantly referenced.
In other countries, since apparently DQ is so unknown, it's kind of a mix. I'll admit sure I think of Slime first too because that's who they tend to push worldwide, but others here-and especially others in Japan-think of Erdrick first.
I get that "well Cloud's the face of FF" but for DQ fans Erdrick seems to be the face.

 

[Starblax]

This doesn't really change my point though.
To probably all of Japan Erdrick comes to mind first. He is that iconic and still constantly referenced.
In other countries, since apparently DQ is so unknown, it's kind of a mix. I'll admit sure I think of Slime first too because that's who they tend to push worldwide, but others here-and especially others in Japan-think of Erdrick first.
I get that "well Cloud's the face of FF" but for DQ fans Erdrick seems to be the face.

But for the rest of the world and people who won't know what DQ is, Slime will appear more recognizable seeing as how he's been in Fortune Street and I thought he was even in Sports Mix too.

 

[Teeb147]

hey im back around. different focus tho

sure but they obviously care about the international community.

FE Awakening broke trends and started doing good in America for the very first time, which is why we got so many FE characters and because Nintendo wanted to run with it.

A lack of overseas familiarity has gotten characters the axe before, such as Ayumi Tachibana, as with Takamaru, and those are both retro reps too. This time we got a few characters who weren't even made in Japan as well.

I think they very much do take their international communities into consideration, and Sakurai is making the final decisions on these characters. He's cut retro characters because people wouldn't recognize them, which leads me to believe they'd go for Slime, a posterboy who EVERYONE will recognize, not just Japan. DQ is in a very peculiar situation, but I still think Slime would be in over Erdrick.

Also catering to retro characters seems like it'd hurt Erdrick's chances tbh. I think they'd want to revisit Takamaru's popularity, or Hayabusa's legacy on difficult games, or Doomguy, or Balloon Fighter. Again, Slime puts Erdrick into question too because he was around two games before Erdrick was (in appearance, at least.)

I get we haven't heard much of him since he was only heard once by leakers, but I really think Slime kinda slims down Erdrick's chances. He's much more recognizable, he's had his own spin off game, there are spin off games fort DQ called DQ Monsters which goes to show, yeah DQ's monsters are pretty important, he's been around the entire time, and whenever DQ gets a crossover they make absolute sure that Slime is the focus of that, as seen in Fortune Street. I mean, even in the picture you sent, there's a Slime just chilling out on Abel's shoulder. Taken into account how Sakurai really cut down on sword characters this time, and understanding that yes: he does take the community's opinion into account, I think he'd really go for Slime when there has previously been more support for the thing internationally and in Japan as far as I know.

Also, did I say advertising DQ was a reason he wouldn't be in? I don't think I did.

Oh you didn't talk about advertising, it's something i've seen some people say, and I just added that point to the post because I just wanted to say that

 

[Luigi The President]

But for the rest of the world and people who won't know what DQ is, Slime will appear more recognizable seeing as how he's been in Fortune Street and I thought he was even in Sports Mix too.

Yes but Erdrick is still known. He's referenced in the rest of the series and especially the latest game.
Lemme try to put it this way.

If they're including a DQ character in the first place over other third party franchises or characters with much more equally global appeal, why would they worry so extensively over who will represent this franchise which is relatively obscure anyway when both have their own extensive merits?

 

[Fenriraga]

But for the rest of the world and people who won't know what DQ is, Slime will appear more recognizable seeing as how he's been in Fortune Street and I thought he was even in Sports Mix too.

I think you're underestimating the power of Toriyama's character designs. DQ characters are very iconic and memorable.

That would be like adding the Felyne from Monster Hunter instead of the actual hunter. Which could happen, but it wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Starblax]

I think you're underestimating the power of Toriyama's character designs. DQ characters are very iconic and memorable.

That would be like adding the Felyne from Monster Hunter instead of the actual hunter. Which could happen, but it wouldn't make much sense.

hey don't get me started on the Palicoes that's like my wet fantasy character lol

 

[Deleted member]

But for the rest of the world and people who won't know what DQ is, Slime will appear more recognizable seeing as how he's been in Fortune Street and I thought he was even in Sports Mix too.

Same could be said about adding Joker instead of Jack Frost, considering the circumstances of the Persona franchise being similar to those of DQ in regards of having a new cast for each new game (save a few occasions and spinoffs). Jack Frost not only appears in the Persona series but in its parent series SMT as well, so you could've a broader appeal with him instead of Joker. And since we have Joker, it wouldn't be too strange for them to add Erdrick as well instead of Slime.

 

[Starblax]

Same could be said about adding Joker instead of Jack Frost, considering the circumstances of the Persona franchise being similar to those of DQ in regards of having a new cast for each new game (save a few occasions and spinoffs). Jack Frost not only appears in the Persona series but in its parent series SMT as well, so you could've a broader appeal with him instead of Joker. And since we have Joker, it wouldn't be too strange for them to add Erdrick as well instead of Slime.

I just find it strange that they'd take Slime in a bunch of other Nintendo crossovers, and then go with Erdrick on Smash.

 

[Calane]

But for the rest of the world and people who won't know what DQ is, Slime will appear more recognizable seeing as how he's been in Fortune Street and I thought he was even in Sports Mix too.

I think it's less about who's more "recognizable" and more about who represents what Dragon Quest "is" better. You can argue that Slime has spin-offs and such, but the main series should be represented before any spin-off. The main series games are about the heroes and the adventures their stories entail. Mascot or not, DQ isn't about Slime, so putting it as DQ's only playable representative in a game like Smash would paint a very inaccurate picture of what those games are actually like. I think it's important to consider how you present a series to people who may not be very familiar with it. Erdrick is not only the series' most iconic hero, but he's also the favorite and represents the series the best.

Besides, if DQ gets into Smash, Slime is likely going to show up regardless. It doesn't have to be playable to make an appearance, and there's plenty of ways to do that. It just makes more sense for a Hero to be the first playable DQ rep since they're the protagonists of the series (with Erdrick being the most iconic of the bunch).

I want to see DQ given as much justice as the rest of the franchises in Smash, and Slime just doesn't do that very well on its own. A playable Erdrick along with appearances from Slime and other DQ monsters is the best way to go if one actually wants to represent the series well in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I just find it strange that they'd take Slime in a bunch of other Nintendo crossovers, and then go with Erdrick on Smash.

Characters in different crossovers or spinoffs dont necessarily have to be the same as the people deciding them are different, it really depends on what you want to achieve with them. Just look at Pokken or the multiple guest characters from SE in other fighting games: you have Noctis and 2B in Tekken and SC6 respectively, and you have Incineroar and Greninja in Smash but they are completely missing from Pokken.

Smash is done by Nintendo + Sakurai, Fortune Street and Sports Mix are done by SE + Armor Project.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Misleading;

"

• Speaking of Smash Bros , if you could take a DOA character to implement it in the Smash cast , who would you choose?

I never spoke with Mr. Sakurai (Masahiro Sakurai, the creator of the Super Smash Bros series), but if I had the chance to do so I would ask him with pleasure, and I would probably choose Kasumi. "

Just sounds like he hasn't talked to Sakurai about a DOA choice given the context.

I think he never spoke to Sakurai in general. Like, this may be a translation error from the POV of the writer, but from that sentence, it seems like he never actually met Sakurai.

 

[Untouch]

Well, since it pertains to the SE rep...

Apparently, according to this interview, the creator of DoA (within which Ryu Hayabusa is most well-known in the modern day, as opposed to the retro Ninja Gaiden) has never spoken to Sakurai about Smash at all.

If I'm not misinterpreting, doesn't that completely debunk that popular 5chan rumor, since it listed Ryu Hayabusa? Surely talks within Koei-Tecmo would be a thing with all parties involved with Ryu's series if he was in.

The creator of Ninja Gaiden is Hideo Yoshizawa who no longer works at KT.
The creator of the reboots is Tomonobu Itagaki... who also no longer works at KT.

(The funny thing is, there's spirit data for Devil's Third which was made by him.)

 

[Deleted member]

Sure if you can tell me why the name Brave, the most definite of everything (as the stats can change), would actually correlate to Banjo on a reasonable level

The only pattern people have spotted, which is honestly a stretch, is that the codenames have to start with the first letter of the fighter. P for Paku and Piranha and J for Jack and Joker. B could be Brave and Banjo. Add how Jack isn't Joker in anyway and it could work if you look at Brave as something not to take literally.

Personally, the only reason to try and fit Banjo into Brave is because there is actual evidence of Rareware spirits in the files, and he fits all of the statistics but name. It's a crap shoot, but certainly not the worst because of the circumstantial evidence surrounding Microsoft involvement in Ultimate.

 

[Nemuresu]

The creator of Ninja Gaiden is Hideo Yoshizawa who no longer works at KT.
The creator of the reboots is Tomonobu Itagaki... who also no longer works at KT.

(The funny thing is, there's spirit data for Devil's Third which was made by him.)

Now that I come to think of it, are there any DT spirits in the game (as in, stuff you can actually unlock)? It's kind of odd to see references to a game that was kind of a trainwreck on the long-run.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, the only reason to try and fit Banjo into Brave is because there is actual evidence of Rareware spirits in the files, and he fits all of the statistics but name. It's a crap shoot, but certainly not the worst because of the circumstantial evidence surrounding Microsoft involvement in Ultimate.

The issue with the Rareware titles in the files is that, there is no indication of actual spirits cut. The data found pertains to only the strings related to those titles, which unless there are actual spirits in the game they are pretty much useless. Just as there is a chance that is cut content, there is also chance that is a mistake due to:
-The existence of the Devil's Third string among them which was another obscure title published by Nintendo but not owned by them. You can check it here https://tcrf.net/Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate
-The fact that these strings were contained in fields with the Japanese names of JFG and BC, which don't seem to be owned by MS

It's hard to say if he is coming, but the evidence doesn't seem to be as clear as people think.

Now that I come to think of it, are there any DT spirits in the game (as in, stuff you can actually unlock)? It's kind of odd to see references to a game that was kind of a trainwreck on the long-run.

Nope, just like the Rareware ones.

 

[Deleted member]

The issue with the Rareware titles in the files is that, there is no indication of actual spirits cut. The data found pertains to only the strings related to those titles, which unless there are actual spirits in the game they are pretty much useless. Just as there is a chance that is cut content, there is also chance that is a mistake due to:
-The existence of the Devil's Third string among them which was another obscure title published by Nintendo but not owned by them. You can check it here https://tcrf.net/Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate
-The fact that these strings were contained in fields with the Japanese names of JFG and BC, which don't seem to be owned by MS

It's hard to say if he is coming, but the evidence doesn't seem to be as clear as people think.

Wait, so Microsoft doesn't own the Japanese names for JFG and BC? How does that work when Rareware owns them?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Wait, so Microsoft doesn't own the Japanese names for JFG and BC? How does that work when they own Rareware?

Nintendo used to own a bit of Rare... So it's complicated

 

[perfectchaos83]

Wait, so Microsoft doesn't own the Japanese names for JFG and BC? How does that work when they own Rareware?

Nintendo owns the trademarks for the games, likely because they published published them in Japan. When those games were rereleased in the rare collections in Japan they were renamed.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo owns the trademarks for the games, likely because they published published them in Japan. When those games were rereleased in the rare collections in Japan they were renamed.

Wow. That is a complicated detail. Goes to show the joy of copyright management.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I actually disagree. Company owners seems like something they'd care about a lot.

Note how I said what I said in response to your suggestions that there'd be only one newcomer per company, even in the DLC. It makes no sense that them wanting to diversify other companies would negate companies already involved from getting more than one newcomer.

Introducing a character in Smash does very positive things for the two companies relationships, it also helps introduce brand new iconic companies into the fray and also helps as a sort of thanks different companies may have given them during the start-up of the Switch like Bethesda.

First things first, in that case, Nintendo has to want to do that in particular. Secondly, the company has to rather want that. Let's not forget, first and foremost, that DLC characters are business first. So, assuming you were referring to diversity over companies, by that logic, we wouldn't be getting another SEGA IP as a DLC newcomer, especially when Nintendo and SEGA are already buddy-buddy. And sure, you could it say it's due to them potentially bringing Persona 5 to the Switch, but that negates the idea they're driven by some alleged diversity amongst 3rd party companies.

Make no mistake. The idea os supposed checks and balances between 3rd party companies has been, and still is nothing but a fan-rule.

 

[Nekoo]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source

If people want to know how stupid some of the Smash community is, there are some people who thought Dai was Erdrick. Then there are dumber people who think Dai getting into Jump Force means Erdrick can't be in Smash. But dumbest of all are the people who believe that "insiders have mistaken Dai for Erdrick and that is why they thought Erdrick was coming to Smash Bros"

That is not only completely untrue.... but is not how any of that kind of things work.

Of course the idiots always try and act like they understand how things do to cause drama & community friction cuz they have nothing better to do and assume they know how the world works. Or are in denial & hate that people can know things b4 the general public gets to.

So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Oy vey. More of Verge's "lovely" mannerisms.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source



So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

I asked Polar about this in the Geno thread (they haven't responded yet), but it's good to finally have someone clarify on this. It always came off as an extreme reach to me.

 

[Nekoo]

Oy vey. More Verge's "lovely" mannerisms.

Tbh he's not wrong on that one.
When it's about leak, the smash community get a malus of -600 IQ and we reach dangerous idiocy level.

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh he's not wrong on that one.
When it's about leak, the smash community get a malus of -600 IQ and we reach dangerous idiocy level.

Pretty much. People will only tout it if it's what they want to hear.
I guarantee if the Grinch leak had Steve on it that it would be dismissed very quickly.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Tbh he's not wrong on that one.
When it's about leak, the smash community get a malus of -600 IQ and we reach dangerous idiocy level.

He's a jerk who generalizes needlessly. Doesn't help that he does this even when it turns out the masses are right and he's wrong. Why else do you think he's not that positively received? He's had a knack for being needlessly unpleasant.

It doesn't take much effort to specify, but clearly he chooses to paint the whole fanbase of each game he leaks for as terrible. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with his infamous qualities.

 

[Nekoo]

He's a jerk who generalizes needlessly. Doesn't help that he does this even when it turns out the masses are right and he's wrong. Why else do you think he's not that positively received? He's had a knack for being needlessly unpleasant.

He's a jerk.

But right now, he's the jerk who put every Smash leaker to shame if Erdrick really happens by getting the info as far as August. And putting the community who didn't believe him to shame.

 

[Ovaltine]

Tbh he's not wrong on that one.
When it's about leak, the smash community get a malus of -600 IQ and we reach dangerous idiocy level.

Yeah, much as I think Verge can be a bit of a jerk sometimes, he's really not wrong, as blunt as it is. The 'Dai hurting Erdrick's chances or being the real 'rep' all along' thing is a massive reach and is really silly.

Although, yeah, I can't blame Jovah for their reaction either. Dude's gotta chill sometimes. That said, I agree with him here regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

He's a jerk who generalizes needlessly. Doesn't help that he does this even when it turns out the masses are right and he's wrong. Why else do you think he's not that positively received? He's had a knack for being needlessly unpleasant.

It doesn't take much effort to specify, but clearly he chooses to paint the whole fanbase of each game he leaks for as terrible. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with his infamous qualities.

He's a jerk.

But right now, he's the jerk who put every Smash leaker to shame if Erdrick really happens by getting the info as far as August. And putting the community who didn't believe him to shame.

Vergeben is a prime example of YouTube comment argument (except it's on GameFaq). I don't follow him period. Just his info, which Papagenos thankfully reports.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Seems ZeRo put Sora as his number 1 and Sephiroth as his number 2.
Cool stuff.
Reminded me of the idea someone had here about having two S-E characters as DLC

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

And putting the community who didn't believe him to shame.

Considering his terrible track record before that, he can't really blame them all for the doubts they had for him.

But right now, he's the jerk who put every Smash leaker to shame if Erdrick really happens by getting the info as far as August.

successful streak where he didn't even get every bit right.

If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be such a terrible person to everyone.

Vergeben is a prime example of YouTube comment argument (except it's on GameFaq). I don't follow him period. Just his info, which Papagenos thankfully reports.

That's a routine that I can respect.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source



So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

Kinda imagined it would happen...

Oy vey. More Verge's "lovely" mannerisms.

He's a jerk who generalizes needlessly. Doesn't help that he does this even when it turns out the masses are right and he's wrong. Why else do you think he's not that positively received? He's had a knack for being needlessly unpleasant.

It doesn't take much effort to specify, but clearly he chooses to paint the whole fanbase of each game he leaks for as terrible. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with his infamous qualities.

While I agree with you in that he's a drama queen, he is not in the wrong here considering the smash fanbase normally creates stupid theories like this and is not exactly friendly.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source



So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

Wait. He didn't say anything on Erdrick being a lock.
In fact, what actually intrigued me was his "not entirely untrue".
I don't know man. I'm feeling like he ain't putting all his eggs into one basket.
Maybe what he meant was people mistaking Erdrick was in the game? Or regarding Jump Force?
Who knows? But he certainly didn't say there that Erdrick is the one.

 

[Nemuresu]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source



So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

Ah, Verg, you never stop amusing me with you cynicism.
But seriously though, guy should stop paying so much attention to the idiocy of GameFAQs//v/ users, their comments can get too ludicrous at times.

 

[PsySmasher]

Uh....Interesting tibit from Vergeben on Reddit, about Smash/JumpForce and DQ in general.

source



So seems that Dai being in Jump Force doesn't hurt Erdrick at all, he still seems to believe Erdrick will be the one

I don’t blame Vergeben for being as blunt as he is here. People do say some really stupid things on the Internet without thinking them through.

He can still be an *** though.

But yeah, Dai’s inclusion in Jump Force has no impact on Erdrick’s chances in Smash.

 

[Nekoo]

Considering his terrible track record before that, he can't really blame them all for the doubts they had for him.

successful streak where he didn't even get every bit right.

If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't be such a terrible person to everyone.

Since May/July/August

Smash
Get:
>Snake, Wolf, Ridley, Ice Climber, all of 3ds/Wii U cast + DLC coming back
>Simon Belmont
>Isabelle
>Ken
>Incineroar
>PROBABLY will get Square-Enix DLC right

Get wrong:
>Steve or minecraft content?

Out of Smash:
>Get Jump Force announcement right
>Get Rondo of Blood/Symphony of the night collection right, but not the plateform as it's just PS4 (as of now)
>Got Jiren being first to be announced for DBZ fighterZ season 2
>A lot of SVI right, but a lot of it wrong


While everyone was against him and was loving the grinch leak, and hoping he was wrong at every claim he did.

He got a LOT of things wrong before, but since May/July, he seems to be pretty much green all across the board, he's a jerk, a big one, but you acting like him being in the wrong for one Info in smash, but right everywhere else discredit him ain't good.
I don't like Vergeben a single bit. But your reaction against him is disproportionate. Especially expecting every leaker to get everything right, when I can tell you that it rarely to never happens with all missinformation internally.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Since May/July/August

Smash
Get:
>Snake, Wolf, Ridley, Ice Climber, all of 3ds/Wii U cast + DLC coming back
>Simon Belmont
>Isabelle
>Ken
>Incineroar
>PROBABLY will get Square-Enix DLC right

Get wrong:
>Steve or minecraft content?

Out of Smash:
>Get Jump Force announcement right
>Get Rondo of Blood/Symphony of the night collection right, but not the plateform as it's just PS4 (as of now)
>Got Jiren being first to be announced for DBZ fighterZ season 2
>A lot of SVI right, but a lot of it wrong


While everyone was against him and was loving the grinch leak, and hoping he was wrong at every claim he did.

He got a LOT of things wrong before, but since May/July, he seems to be pretty much green all across the board, he's a jerk, a big one, but you acting like him being in the wrong for one Info in smash, but right everywhere else discredit him ain't good.
I don't like Vergeben a single bit. But your reaction against him is disproportionate. Especially expecting every leaker to get everything right, when I can tell you that it rarely to never happens with all missinformation internally.

Don't forget about Isaac being an AT. He also got the new Dragon Ball RPG right