[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Noipoi]

I love Geno, he's radical. But i've come to terms with the fact that it's not happening this game.

 

[Luigi The President]

You're better than this. There's never a need to be condescending like that, especially when no one is attacking you.

I'm trying to make a joke based off that recurring thing. Whether it's agreed upon or not, that has been a pretty common phrase for the past weeks ("actually Erdrick doesn't fit Brave's stats too much")
The intention was to imply that'd be a recurring theme whether Noi agrees or not, but I get why it came off that way. Sorry fellas.
Also no, I am absolutely not better then that, I suck lol, but thanks Sig.

Edited the post as to not upset anyone; I realized how condescending it came off as after you corrected me.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I still don't think it's fair to say Erdrick is even for sure happening. As far as I know all we have is situational evidence like Brave meaning a class in Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest being popular in Japan, and everyone copying off each other to "Leak Erdrick". Which I think all started happening because Verge was saying there is a SE DLC Rep months and months before the DLC list was even finalized.

 

[Deleted member]

I barley know jack piss about Dragon Quest (Other than the fact that it's the same thing as every other anime RPG out there)!

Because it literally invented them?
You don't need to act like that.

 

[Luigi The President]

I barley know jack piss about Dragon Quest (Other than the fact that it's the same thing as every other anime RPG out there)!

So you guys know my strict philosophy against ignoring people as I always want to try and better them?
This guy is the only regular user I have muted.
I suggest you all do the same. You are quite literally wasting your time entertaining him, and I'm only quoting him to warn you guys.

 

[EarlTamm]

So you guys know my strict philosophy against ignoring people as I always want to try and better them?
This guy is the only regular user I have muted.
I suggest you all do the same. You are quite literally wasting your time entertaining him, and I'm only quoting him to warn you guys.

I was confused what was going on up till you said this, then I realized it was relating to one of the two people I got muted.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Did I start posting at the wrong time or something? Because I am real confused on whats going on right now lol

 

[EarlTamm]

Did I start posting at the wrong time or something? Because I am real confused on whats going on right now lol

Do you have the guy muted? Because I was pretty confused till I realized that.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Do you have the guy muted? Because I was pretty confused till I realized that.

I meant like I just got here today so I don't know what beef people have with other people. So I got really confused when people were getting mad. Wasn't sure if that was the reason my posts were being skipped or I just make some bad points. lol

 

[Noipoi]

I meant like I just got here today so I don't know what beef people have with other people. So I got really confused when people were getting mad. Wasn't sure if that was the reason my posts were being skipped or I just make some bad points. lol

You just got here today? Well in that case...

Enjoy your stay!

 

[MissingGlitch]

You just got here today? Well in that case...

View attachment 187365

Enjoy your stay!

Thanks. Decided to show up because my normal circles I feel are getting sick of me always trying to do smash speculation. And Reddit doesn't seem to friendly to speculating against the 5chan post. So I kinda ended up here as things seem to be more open to speculation.

 

[MajoraMan28]

I said hey. what's going on?

HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA

 

[NinjaSmash_414]

My support goes to Vivi from FF IX and Jade from DQ XI.

 

[kirby3021]

I've never really been a fan of SE games. But I do know that many SE characters top fan charts consistently. So It would be really strange to ignore all those characters to add a DQ character instead that would be basically unknown to anyone in the west. I know Japan would get a kick out of it but most of the west would just scratch their heads and wonder why it wasn't someone they actually knew. Sure it might not matter much as I'm sure most of us already bought the fighter pass upfront but still. I would personally think it would be a character that both Japan and the West would know pretty well if they are trying to sell the fighter pass everywhere. Of course that hasn't stopped them before by adding Japan only favorite characters.

Unless...They were gonna do a character that is only really known in the west to balance it out like I dunno....Banjo. It would be a fair trade off.

This is one of the biggest reasons I have doubts that Brave is Erdrick. As that he's practically unknown in the west, would he sell well enough to offset the development and maintenance costs that are undoubtably part of each DLC character? From what I've heard of DQ's popularity in Japan, he probably would, but he also likely wouldn't be as profitable overall as other characters with greater worldwide fame. A safer business bet would be a much better known character worldwide like Sora or Sephiroth, the inclusion of which would drive business back to Nintendo and SE with the FFVII remake and KH3. These factors combined would make including these worldwide mega-popular characters a much easier sell to Nintendo executives than others.

This, unfortunately, is also one of the reasons we are unlikely to see characters like Geno or Neku in Smash (not that their inclusion is impossible by any means, they'd just be a harder sell to Nintendo execs).

Let's also add the huge caveat to this that this is me taking a very brief stab at analyzing the business side of DLC while ignoring all other factors that could influence it. Might be my econ major doing the thinking.

 

[Deleted member]

My support goes to Vivi from FF IX and Jade from DQ XI.

The most ideal yet most unlikely choices.

 

[Luigi The President]

Thanks. Decided to show up because my normal circles I feel are getting sick of me always trying to do smash speculation. And Reddit doesn't seem to friendly to speculating against the 5chan post. So I kinda ended up here as things seem to be more open to speculation.

r/smashbros is HILARIOUS when it comes to leak.
They switch on their "NINTENDO IS UN-LEAKABLE" glasses and go "heh all these leaks are BS and you should never believe them." and become the most upvoted comment.
Then the leaks come true.

Now if they LIKE a leak, that's another story.

 

[Deleted member]

I still don't think it's fair to say Erdrick is even for sure happening. As far as I know all we have is situational evidence like Brave meaning a class in Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest being popular in Japan, and everyone copying off each other to "Leak Erdrick". Which I think all started happening because Verge was saying there is a SE DLC Rep months and months before the DLC list was even finalized.

Nothing is 100% sure honestly, which is something that has been repeated in the thread multiple times. Just by seeing the current situation for Erdrick, it just looks good due to a few circumstances including a few insiders and DQ having a few releases this year.

And while brave doesnt seem to be Erdrick atm, nothing says he cant come later.

My support goes to Vivi from FF IX and Jade from DQ XI.

Great taste mate.

 

[NinjaSmash_414]

The most ideal yet most unlikely choices.

Both games are coming to Switch this year. And they have a better shot then Sora or Slime, that's for sure.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

So you guys know my strict philosophy against ignoring people as I always want to try and better them?
This guy is the only regular user I have muted.
I suggest you all do the same. You are quite literally wasting your time entertaining him, and I'm only quoting him to warn you guys.

Thanks for the heads up I got the same vibe from him that I got from Squidward (I don't need to name drop you already know)

 

[MissingGlitch]

This is one of the biggest reasons I have doubts that Brave is Erdrick. As that he's practically unknown in the west, would he sell well enough to offset the development and maintenance costs that are undoubtably part of each DLC character? From what I've heard of DQ's popularity in Japan, he probably would, but he also likely wouldn't be as profitable overall as other characters with greater worldwide fame. A safer business bet would be a much better known character worldwide like Sora or Sephiroth, the inclusion of which would drive business back to Nintendo and SE with the FFVII remake and KH3. These factors combined would make including these worldwide mega-popular characters a much easier sell to Nintendo executives than others.

This, unfortunately, is also one of the reasons we are unlikely to see characters like Geno or Neku in Smash (not that their inclusion is impossible by any means, they'd just be a harder sell to Nintendo execs).

Let's also add the huge caveat to this that this is me taking a very brief stab at analyzing the business side of DLC while ignoring all other factors that could influence it. Might be my econ major doing the thinking.

Actually I think Geno has more of a chance in that department then most people give him credit for. Like it or not the Smash community is what is pushing Geno along. There is not one person in the Smash community who doesn't know who Geno is at this point. When it comes to Erdrick, outside of Japan most people are expressing disapproval if not outright hostility towards the idea. Even most Dragon Quest fans seem to be asking for someone else from the series. I feel overall Geno would have the most net positivity towards his reveal. There are not very many people out there that say outright Geno should never be in Smash. And most people that haven't really looked to far into Geno at least admit his addition would make the majority of the Smash community happy.

But what has been bothering me the most about all this is that the common idea is all the DLC is just going to be advertisements for upcoming games. It's a large part of where all the Erdrick speculation is coming from. Two upcoming Dragon Quest games coming to the west.

 

[Rumble Red]

This is one of the biggest reasons I have doubts that Brave is Erdrick. As that he's practically unknown in the west, would he sell well enough to offset the development and maintenance costs that are undoubtably part of each DLC character? From what I've heard of DQ's popularity in Japan, he probably would, but he also likely wouldn't be as profitable overall as other characters with greater worldwide fame. A safer business bet would be a much better known character worldwide like Sora or Sephiroth, the inclusion of which would drive business back to Nintendo and SE with the FFVII remake and KH3. These factors combined would make including these worldwide mega-popular characters a much easier sell to Nintendo executives than others.

The theoretical reason to go with a Dragon Quest character instead of someone more obviously popular like Sora is that DQ needs the publicity. Which... yeah, that's obvious, but DQ's lopsided popularity makes it an unusual situation. Dragon Quest is popular enough in Japan that games are regularly being made just for that market, on the basis that they'll be profitable in that market. No matter what happens over here, the games are coming out anyway. So to Square Enix, getting the series to be more popular outside of Japan is, to exaggerate a little, free money.

Since every Dragon Quest game that's come out in Western markets on Nintendo hardware for about a decade has been published by Nintendo themselves, there's also potentially some of Nintendo's own interest involved there. They're publishing Builders 2 over here this year.

Of course, Square Enix's past behaviour hasn't borne that out. Their (mis)management of DQ outside of Japan is basically the whole reason it's in this weird state to begin with, and a big push like this would be very out of character for them. They've stepped it up since the lead-up to XI, but this would be way, way beyond what we've ever seen.

 

[Deleted member]

This is one of the biggest reasons I have doubts that Brave is Erdrick. As that he's practically unknown in the west, would he sell well enough to offset the development and maintenance costs that are undoubtably part of each DLC character? From what I've heard of DQ's popularity in Japan, he probably would, but he also likely wouldn't be as profitable overall as other characters with greater worldwide fame. A safer business bet would be a much better known character worldwide like Sora or Sephiroth, the inclusion of which would drive business back to Nintendo and SE with the FFVII remake and KH3. These factors combined would make including these worldwide mega-popular characters a much easier sell to Nintendo executives than others.

This, unfortunately, is also one of the reasons we are unlikely to see characters like Geno or Neku in Smash (not that their inclusion is impossible by any means, they'd just be a harder sell to Nintendo execs).

Let's also add the huge caveat to this that this is me taking a very brief stab at analyzing the business side of DLC while ignoring all other factors that could influence it. Might be my econ major doing the thinking.

In terms of marketing, if Nintendo and Sakurai wants to push Dragon Quest more to the west and on their home consoles, then representing DQ in Smash would be a great way to grab peoples interest, especially for people who were on the fence for the series in the US. As a long term plan, there is promise in the idea. I'm not sure how well it would boil for us Smashboarders, but I think in general, there will be a net positive.

Plus, you know, Japan loves DQ. That's known already but I feel I should reiterate how important that can be.

 

[MissingGlitch]

If we are talking about base game additions? Sure I'll be all for this. But remember this is DLC. They are asking a bunch of people in the west to buy a character they have no clue who it is so that Nintendo and SE can promote Dragon Quest to them. We would essentially be paying for an advertisement. Which might put a bad taste in people's mouths. The net outcome would be the entire west wondering why it wasn't something they knew like Sora.

 

[Deleted member]

If we are talking about base game additions? Sure I'll be all for this. But remember this is DLC. They are asking a bunch of people in the west to buy a character they have no clue who it is so that Nintendo and SE can promote Dragon Quest to them. We would essentially be paying for an advertisement.

Well not exactly. Erdrick could very well be a fun fighter. Many conversations on here has tried to cement that. If people bought Corrin, I feel like Erdrick will be accepted.

E: Doubly so if he plays well. Sometimes, the fanbase developing the fighter's meta is what makes people grow to love them.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Well not exactly. Erdrick could very well be a fun fighter. Many conversations on here has tried to cement that. If people bought Corrin, I feel like Erdrick will be accepted.

Unlike Dragon Quest. Fire Emblem is actually well know in the west now. Corrin had the Fire Emblem name lifting them up so it was easier to swallow. Erdrick would really have nothing to give him that extra boost. It doesn't help that much of the smash community has become soured to Sword Fighters. He would have to be REALLY fun and REALLY unique to be given a chance.

 

[Deleted member]

If we are talking about base game additions? Sure I'll be all for this. But remember this is DLC. They are asking a bunch of people in the west to buy a character they have no clue who it is so that Nintendo and SE can promote Dragon Quest to them. We would essentially be paying for an advertisement. Which might put a bad taste in people's mouths.

The DLC is being sold as a pack and individually, a lot of people buy the pack as its cheaper. And as more characters are being added, the more chances are that they get keep getting a bit more obscure for some regions. It really depends in these cases as to how Nintendo promotes and advertises the characters for DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

Well not exactly. Erdrick could very well be a fun fighter. Many conversations on here has tried to cement that. If people bought Corrin, I feel like Erdrick will be accepted.

The Corrin comparison is not one I will understand. Erdrick is from a massively influential and (domestically) popular game, despite being over three decades old. And it's not like we haven't gotten DQ3 officially localized like the case with FE Fates, DQ3 came out on NES outside of Japan.
A character with tons of history and legacy behind them (even if a lot of people aren't aware of that legacy outside of Japan that doesn't mean it's nonexistent) versus a character whose game wasn't even out yet. It's simply not an equal comparison.

 

[Deleted member]

Unlike Dragon Quest. Fire Emblem is actually well know in the west now. Corrin had the Fire Emblem name lifting them up so it was easier to swallow. Erdrick would really have nothing to give him that extra boost. It doesn't help that much of the smash community has become soured to Sword Fighters. He would have to be REALLY fun and REALLY unique to be given a chance.

Leave it to Sakurai, mate. Plus aesthetically, Dragon Quest on the surface visually looks more vibrant than Fire Emblem.

The Corrin comparison is not one I will understand. Erdrick is from a massively influential and (domestically) popular game, despite being over three decades old. And it's not like we haven't gotten DQ3 officially localized like the case with FE Fates, DQ3 came out on NES outside of Japan.
A character with tons of history and legacy behind them (even if a lot of people aren't aware of that legacy outside of Japan that doesn't mean it's nonexistent) versus a character whose game wasn't even out yet. It's simply not an equal comparison.

I was looking at it from a west marketing standpoint. As an American, I personally did not grow up with that influence so it's hard for me to look at it from a Japanese perspective. In a similar way, you cannot expect other westerners to see Erdrick in that light .While Corrin has nothing on Erdrick, some people are going to see it as such. Hell, the general initial concern we've been discussing is this very point, so expect seeing it more when people discuss DQ. But looking at it from the areas I browse around, Erdrick has potential to be accepted by the community even if it wasn't their preferred choice, and that's great in another way.

For one, Smash Bros is a game at the end of the day, so if people like playing as Erdrick, he'll fit right in. Aesthetically, he would probably have more personality than the average sword fighter because of the more cartoon art style of Dragon Quest. Plus DQ is recognized. I think it showed up once in the video game awards for the RPG nomination. It didn't win, and I'm not even sure if it came close, but I'm thinking the west is ready for him by now.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Maybe its because I am looking at it from a business standpoint. It just doesn't make sense to me to pick a character that would appease only one market and essentially be an advertisement for other regions. The border the appeal and popularity of the character, the better the sales would be. Sure we can throw all that out the window because I'm sure most of us already bought the fighter pass. AND we can assume the japanese market would be enough the make the character profitable. But you wouldn't want to make people regret buying the fighter pass early. Even if we were warned "Don't buy the fighter pass if you aren't sure of its value"

 

[Deleted member]

Leave it to Sakurai, mate. Plus aesthetically, Dragon Quest on the surface visually looks more vibrant than Fire Emblem.



I was looking at it from a west marketing standpoint. As an American, I personally did not grow up with that influence so it's hard for me to look at it from a Japanese perspective. In a similar way, you cannot expect other westerners to see Erdrick in that light .While Corrin has nothing on Erdrick, some people are going to see it as such. Hell, the general initial concern we've been discussing is this very point, so expect seeing it more when people discuss DQ. But looking at it from the areas I browse around, Erdrick has potential to be accepted by the community even if it wasn't their preferred choice, and that's great in another way.

For one, Smash Bros is a game at the end of the day, so if people like playing as Erdrick, he'll fit right in. Aesthetically, he would probably have more personality than the average sword fighter because of the more cartoon art style of Dragon Quest.

That's fair enough. And I do feel the same way, I definetely feel like people will be a lot quicker to warm up to Erdrick if he does make it with what a legacy he has behind him.

Maybe its because I am looking at it from a business standpoint. It just doesn't make sense to me to pick a character that would appease only one market and essentially be an advertisement for other regions. The border the appeal and popularity of the character, the better the sales would be. Sure we can throw all that out the window because I'm sure most of us already bought the fighter pass. But you wouldn't want to make people regret buying the fighter pass early. Even if we were warmed "Don't buy the fighter pass if you aren't sure of its value"

I can understand this perspective, but the way I see it I don't think it's that bad if they go with one character with primarily Japanese appeal, especially if there's a character with primarily Western appeal as well.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I can understand this perspective, but the way I see it I don't think it's that bad if they go with one character with primarily Japanese appeal, especially if there's a character with primarily Western appeal as well.

At that point I would have no fault with it. There are plenty of western based characters that deserve to be in Smash even if you ignore Banjo. It would be a shame if they never bothered to go with it because it wouldn't be popular with japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe its because I am looking at it from a business standpoint. It just doesn't make sense to me to pick a character that would appease only one market and essentially be an advertisement for other regions. The border the appeal and popularity of the character, the better the sales would be. Sure we can throw all that out the window because I'm sure most of us already bought the fighter pass. AND we can assume the japanese market would be enough the make the character profitable. But you wouldn't want to make people regret buying the fighter pass early. Even if we were warned "Don't buy the fighter pass if you aren't sure of its value"

From a business standpoint, I'm looking at it beyond Smash Bros. In the long run, if Dragon Quest does well around the world, that can also benefit Nintendo as well as Square. The very idea of Smash Bros is to market series. Look at how many people who started playing Castlevania and Persona 5 because of Ultimate. If Dragon Quest can break through America's surface, that benefits people who like the series here, people who are curious, and companies who want to market it. As buzz spreads around that the games are actually good, more people will try it. There's a cycle when it comes to this kind of advertising.

And let's be real, the fighters pass is for people who are willing to get the most out of the game, and the most does include new fighters, especially in the meta. It doesn't help how this is all leak speculation, so the complete surprise of DQ suddenly being in is virtually lost, which is the actual fun of character reveals.

 

[MissingGlitch]

From a business standpoint, I'm looking at it beyond Smash Bros. In the long run, if Dragon Quest does well around the world, that can also benefit Nintendo as well as Square. The very idea of Smash Bros is to market series. Look at how many people who started playing Castlevania and Persona 5 because of Ultimate. If Dragon Quest can break through America's surface, that benefits people who like the series here, people who are curious, and companies who want to market it. As buzz spreads around that the games are actually good, more people will try it. There's a cycle when it comes to this kind of advertising.

And let's be real, the fighters pass is for people who are willing to get the most out of the game, and the most does include new fighters, especially in the meta. It doesn't help how this is all leak speculation, so the complete surprise of DQ suddenly being in is virtually lost, which is the actual fun of character reveals.

The problem with using both Persona and Castlevania as examples is that they were both already popular series around the world before showing up in Smash. So they would already have mass appeal. Dragon Quest doesn't have that luxury. It would be a huge risk for them. That I am not denying they won't try however. I still see Dragon Quest happening just because of the Japanese market. I just think they should go with a character with mass appeal and requested.

 

[Deleted member]

The problem with using both Persona and Castlevania as examples is that they were both already popular series around the world before showing up in Smash. So they would already have mass appeal. Dragon Quest doesn't have that luxury.

The luxury isn't in its western popularity. It's the fact that it's in Smash Bros and therefore it will get people to try the series out. If people see it's good enough to be in Smash Bros, they might be curious in the quality of the series. That's what's most important about this theoretical marketing plan.

 

[perfectchaos83]

We know it's likely that it was planned as early as June 2018, given the tweeted footage between Reggie and Geoff mentioning a surprise in store at the Game Awards.

All this tells us is that a reveal was planned for the game awards at the time, not necessarily Joker himself.

I still don't think it's fair to say Erdrick is even for sure happening. As far as I know all we have is situational evidence like Brave meaning a class in Dragon Quest, Dragon Quest being popular in Japan, and everyone copying off each other to "Leak Erdrick". Which I think all started happening because Verge was saying there is a SE DLC Rep months and months before the DLC list was even finalized.

I'd say the issue is we've had various named leakers of varying credibility toss their hat into the "DQ is in smash" ring, most of which had no real prior contact with each other. It's getting to the point where Erdrick is the DLC's Incineoar. I'm not really saying Erdrick is a lock, but there's a lot of isolated incidents that point in his favor.

The problem with using both Persona and Castlevania as examples is that they were both already popular series around the world before showing up in Smash. So they would already have mass appeal. Dragon Quest doesn't have that luxury.

Dragon Quest's "unpopularity" is vastly overstated in the west. It still performs even if it's not a multi million seller. It still manages to sell ~Million units per release in the west.

 

[Luigi The President]

Still find it tragically beautiful that, out of all the DLC picks, ****in' ERDRICK became the big obvious one of this cycle.

How could they hide Joker...
...and **** up so bad with Erdrick.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Still find it tragically beautiful that, out of all the DLC picks, ****in' ERDRICK became the big obvious one of this cycle.

How could they hide Joker...
...and **** up so bad with Erdrick.

This is also why I have some skepticism behind Erdrick. If no credible insider was able to get Joker. How come all of a sudden every insider knows exactly its Erdrick with no possibility it could be anyone else?

 

[Deleted member]

This is also why I have some skepticism behind Erdrick. If no credible insider was able to get Joker. How come all of a sudden every insider knows exactly its Erdrick with no possibility it could be anyone else?

Apparently it's been theorized that it was actually planned for the base game but had to get moved ahead for some reason or another, I don't recall the full details on that though.

 

[Deleted member]

This is also why I have some skepticism behind Erdrick. If no credible insider was able to get Joker. How come all of a sudden every insider knows exactly its Erdrick with no possibility it could be anyone else?

Well that's misunderstanding what some insiders say. Vergeben, probably one of the most reliable insiders because of how steadfast he was with Incineroar being in and predicting before the direct that Isaac was an AT, is not saying he is in. He just has a list and a general survey of what the people inside are saying. After all, the list this thread is based on didn't come out of nowhere. I wouldn't look too much into other insiders. You'll just get a headache. Vergeben's the only one I can rely on, and even he has no idea what's going on with DLC other than there is a Square character and Minecraft content. It's as vague as you can get and that's why no one worth their grain should be saying Erdrick is 100%

 

[MissingGlitch]

Apparently it's been theorized that it was actually planned for the base game but had to get moved ahead for some reason or another, I don't recall the full details on that though.

That really sounds like a bunch of hogwash not going to lie. I've seen my fair share of backpedaling and thats sounds exactly like what someone would say if they were backed into a corner over being asked how they know this.