[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

He had nothing to do with the ballot. He was chosen long before it.

Pardoneme? Never is it mentioned that Cloud was added before the ballot. What is mentioned is that he was the most voted for FF character. Obviously he was decided on well before the ballot ended.

Bayo was the ballot character.

And she's absolutely been confirmed to have been decided before the ballot ended. ABout 2 million votes in.

Cloud simply isn't Nintendo no matter how you slice it.

I thought you didn't care about that sort of stuff. Besides, he's been on Nintendo stuff before he got into Smash notably enough, and with this year, he'll be as "Nintendo" as you can get with having your game on a Nintendo platform.

I don't think people would be nearly so sour if FF got an assist trophy, spirits/trophies and music from other games in the series, particularly the first six.

The lack of those other things, we can easily blame on Square being stingy.

 

[ZenythSmash]

Spin-off appearances though. That's my line of thinking. Their main games have yet to appear on a Nintendo system. Not yet at least.

If spin-off appearances count towards a prominent Nintendo appearance. What's to say as StormC said that a costume honoring Master Chief's legacy doesn't include Master Chief on the list of possibilities?

Whose to say Nintendo and Microsoft's close relationship wouldn't make them consider Master Chief? Sure, Steve makes a lot of sense more than Master Chief, but it doesn't negate the possibility either.

NOT TO MENTION
a random cameo in a Nintendo port or spinoff was not a sole reason Sakurai considered the character in the first place

you even seen him saying "being on Nintendo platform" is nothing but a courtesy, than something "required"

 

[MajoraMan28]

Pardoneme? Never is it mentioned that Cloud was added before the ballot. What is mentioned is that he was the most voted for FF character. Obviously he was decided on well before the ballot ended.

And she's absolutely been confirmed to have been decided before the ballot ended. ABout 2 million votes in.

I thought you didn't care about that sort of stuff. Besides, he's been on Nintendo stuff before he got into Smash notably enough, and with this year, he'll be as "Nintendo" as you can get with having your game on a Nintendo platform.

The lack of those other things, we can easily blame on Square being stingy.

OK. Just remember that the ballot hardly even began when Cloud was announced. And knowing S-E and how long it takes to develop a character, specially one of his caliber into the game (his mechanics were completely new, so it would take a longer time to make him work), it`s safe to say he wasn`t chosen for the ballot. Heck, Sakurai made it clear in interviews that he chose Cloud. There wasn`t any ballot to justify him, other than him being widely known as the most popular since the Brawl days. Fan polls were taken for more than a decade already, so he had data to look at possible FF characters.
Bayo was decided before the ballot ended, but she was decided bc of the data they have already gotten by that point. She was number 1 in Europe and very high up in the US and Japan, so it was a safe bet she was under those conditions for a while.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I'm just saying that Chief's lack of Nintendo appearances is a big restraining order

He's shown up via Minecraft which is a pretty big game.

OK. Just remember that the ballot hardly even began when Cloud was announced.

Ummm. The ballot began in April 1st, 2015, and ended in October 3rd, 2015. Cloud was announced in November 2015. Well after it had started and ended.

And knowing S-E and how long it takes to develop a character, specially one of his caliber into the game (his mechanics were completely new, so it would take a longer time to make him work), it`s safe to say he wasn`t chosen for the ballot.

Not necessarily. Between Apirl 2015 to his release in December 2015, he had 8 months to have been made and released. That's at least half a year included in there. Roughly about the time it takes to make a brand new character.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought you didn't care about that sort of stuff. Besides, he's been on Nintendo stuff before he got into Smash notably enough, and with this year, he'll be as "Nintendo" as you can get with having your game on a Nintendo platform.

I mean, at the state Smash is right now? I couldn't give a **** anymore but if I could? I'd have focused on making it a Nintendo crossover first and foremost.
It just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth that you have this series with all these characters that first appeared in Nintendo consoles for Nintendo fans to celebrate and then... it's the playstation guy.
This isn't a "i hate cloud and sony sucks" it's "I'm a Nintendo fan playing a Nintendo game and I'd love to see a character that appeared in a game that I played in one of their consoles".
And this is more about FF in particular, I don't care about non-Nintendo series being added with non-"Nintendo" characters because there aren't more "Nintendo-y" options but... FF did, it had plenty.

 

[Jboy1010]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQu...2?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

 

[MajoraMan28]

He's shown up via Minecraft which is a pretty big game.

Ummm. The ballot began in April 1st, 2015, and ended in October 3rd, 2015. Cloud was announced in November 2015. Well after it had started and ended.

Not necessarily. Between Apirl 2015 to his release in December 2015, he had 8 months to have been made and released. That's at least half a year included in there. Roughly about the time it takes to make a brand new character.

Yes, but remember how long it takes for legal measures and negotiations to be finalized. Specially with a S-E that wasn`t close to Nintendo as they are today. A time when both companies didn't have a bright future in their relationship. 8 months to develop a character like him is plausible, but considering the whole picture, it's hard to imagine it taking the normal ammount of time. Heck, we're here speculating the current S-E character that would have been in development or at least chosen around the time of E3. And today S-E is absolute buddies with Nintendo (probably bc of the miracle Sakurai pulled in Smash 4).

I mean, at the state Smash is right now? I couldn't give a **** anymore but if I could? I'd have focused on making it a Nintendo crossover first and foremost.
It just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth that you have this series with all these characters that first appeared in Nintendo consoles for Nintendo fans to celebrate and then... it's the playstation guy.
This isn't a "i hate cloud and sony sucks" it's "I'm a Nintendo fan playing a Nintendo game and I'd love to see a character that appeared in a game that I played in one of their consoles".
And this is more about FF in particular, I don't care about non-Nintendo series being added with non-"Nintendo" characters because there aren't more "Nintendo-y" options but... FF did, it had plenty.

Why would you feel that way? Like, couldn't Smash just be a way of clinching character previously seen as non-Nintendo characters as Nintendo characters?
There isn't a third party series as Nintendo in essence as FF, specially during the I-IX days. And after Cloud entered Smash, S-E started slowly getting closer to Nintendo. We might have FFVII Remake and KHIII for Switch. And all of this bc of the Nintendo essence you've wanted in Smash for so long. And whether you like it or not, Cloud and his game aren't distant from what Nintendo represented and accomplished. And that same game will launch on the Switch very soon. So, while I share these same sentiments with you, I've never seen him as a playstation guy, let alone a character that broke the rule. He was more of a godsend of a sign that S-E would come to Nintendo in the future. And honestly, the way things are still going, everything still respects that history, relevance and the "Nintendo spirit" that we all cherish. And be patient. More FF content could come in the future.

 

[Deleted member]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQu...2?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

We got that post before, I wouldnt put too much tought about deciphering who "brave" is just due to the huge amount of interpretations.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

We got that post before, I wouldn't put too much thought about deciphering who "brave" is just due to the huge amount of interpretations.

if you wanna get technical all the hero's in DQ are brave for the adventures they go on it can be used for anyone we have a character to go off of we know who to point to (and when I say hero's I don't just mean the main hero I mean their parties as well)

 

[Freduardo]

If I had to rank my desire for the poll at the top of the thread:

1) Geno
2) Crono
3) Sora
4) Slime
5) Erdrick
6) Sephiroth
7) Luminary (I don’t know this character at all. They comenin last).

 

[Rumble Red]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQuest/status/1083363078085865472?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

Doubtful that that's any kind of hint. "Brave" really is a pretty generic word, as speculation has made clear. It does have an association with Dragon Quest, but not in a way that really fits Jade, so that's a wash.

Though frankly the fact that the DQ Twitter is still posting at all is a touch suspicious, since the usual pattern would've had them back in neglect mode long before now. That doesn't mean anything Smash-related necessarily, but it's a hopeful sign that Square cares maybe just a little bit.

 

[shocktarts17]

I know the move data has been talked about a bunch but Fatmanonice has been doing comparisons of Brave's data to other characters in the Geno thread and determined they think Brave lines up a lot more with the zoners than the swordfighters. If you haven't yet you should check it out.

Slender had some interesting observations about the frame data last night and he said he would post more specifics later but here are some things I was able to find:

When it comes to aerial landing lag for Brave, nair matches Zelda, Fair matches Luigi, Mii Brawler, Ganondorf, Peach/Daisy, and Ivysaur, Bair matches Dedede, Falco, Corrin, ROB, and Pac-Man, Uair matches Wolf, Falcon, the Belmonts, Pac-Man, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman, and Dair matches Wario, Dedede, Little Mac, Olimar, and Mii Brawler/Swordsman.

Why is this significant? Because Brave's frame data isn't like other swordsmen in the game. Even "slow" Swordsmen have quick aerials as defining characteristics. Consider the following:

Ike/Brave:

N- 8/15
F- 14/13
B- 11/13
U-9/10
D- 14/18

Link/Brave

N- 6/15
F- 11/13
B- 6/13
U- 14/10
D- 19/18

Shulk/Brave:

N- 6/15
F- 10/ 13
B- 11/13
U- 9/ 10
D- 14/18

It's even more notable when you add the Marth Quadruplets and Metaknight. Now compare to some zoners in the game:

Villager/Brave:

N- 9/15
F- 15/13
B- 15/13
U- 13/10
D-13/ 18

Zelda/Brave:

N- 15/15
F- 15/13
B- 12/13
U- 16/10
D- 16/18

Megaman/Brave:

N- 25/15
F- 10/13
B- 20/13
U- 20/10
D- 15/18

Mii Gunner/Brave:

N- 11/15
F- 12/13
B- 11/13
U- 13/10
D- 17/18

Based on these observations along with what was brought up yesterday like Brave's airspeed, fast fall, and strange slide, Brave does not play like a swordsman, he plays like a zoner and follows their characteristics very similarly. The swordsman Brave shares the most similarities with is Mii Swordsmen, the outlier of the sword users. His strong similarities with Mii Gunner and Pac-Man are especially notable, as they are some of the heaviest zoners in the game. I feel like this adds more evidence to the pile that we've been bamboozled to some degree and suggests a possible number of things:

1. The character is Kid Erdrick but plays wildly different than any other swordsman in the game, nixxing a ton of intel swearing on adult Erdrick with a female ALTsl.

2. Brave is an entirely different character. Erdrick may still be in the game but Brave isn't him. Once again, this means more bad intel and torpedos most of the leaks floating around.

Either way, this suggests that there's a strong possibility that something is wrong about the information being put out and wires are getting crossed.

Not likely. Pirhana Plant's values were attached to other characters too and the basic character concept plays out exactly like the trailer: goofy range and strength but laughably bad lag on a lot of moves and the slowest character in the game with a lot of attacks. Even if the numbers are changed, the basic concept of the character is pretty much mapped out. Here's more examples to further illustrate this:

Olimar/Brave:

Nair: 13/15
Fair: 9/13
Bair: 9/13
Uair: 18/10
Dair: 18/18

Pac-Man/Brave

Nair: 7 /15
Fair: 10/13
Bair: 13 /13
Uair: 10 /10
Dair: 12 /18

King Dedede/Brave

Nair: 10/15
Fair: 18/13
Bair: 13/13
Uair: 13/10
Dair: 18/18

Robin/Brave:
Nair: 11/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 11/13
Uair: 11/10
Dair: 16/18

Again, note the similarities between the zoners and how he's notably slower with aerial attacks than the literal slowest swordsman in the game.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQuest/status/1083363078085865472?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

'
Jade? A 3rd party character in before the star if their respective game/series? Kind of doubtful.

Shame there's no way of knowing via the stats what weapons "Brave" might have, if any at all.

Yes, but remember how long it takes for legal measures and negotiations to be finalized.

No set time for that. And from what we've heard, it doesn't sound like they were met with much resistence that would've made the process too much longer.

Heck, we're here speculating the current S-E character that would have been in development or at least chosen around the time of E3.

That has more to do with Square possibly wanting to save said character for DLC though, as opposed to negotiation and legal issues.

And today S-E is absolute buddies with Nintendo (probably bc of the miracle Sakurai pulled in Smash 4).

Eh, the term is relative. They're definitely more friendly with each other than before, that doesn't necessarily change/heal all old habits.

 

[fleshdude.gov]

I know the move data has been talked about a bunch but Fatmanonice has been doing comparisons of Brave's data to other characters in the Geno thread and determined they think Brave lines up a lot more with the zoners than the swordfighters. If you haven't yet you should check it out.

I....think it might actually be Slime.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

We got that post before, I wouldnt put too much tought about deciphering who "brave" is just due to the huge amount of interpretations.

No kidding. Heck, it's so up in the air that the dataminer himself said it could even be Sora.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Gonna be really funny if "Brave" isn't even a Square rep at this point.

 

[Jboy1010]

No kidding. Heck, it's so up in the air that the dataminer himself said it could even be Sora.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Gonna be really funny if "Brave" isn't even a Square rep at this point.

Really hope it’s sora (though he is a Disney rep), but I hear Yuri being thrown around.

 

[Sigran101]

I'm getting really worried that brave is slime. Pirahna Plant was bad enough. I really don't want to see a third party generic Mook too.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Tbh I rather have Slime than Sora.

Also, I like Cloud being in. I became a fan of FF(7) right at the same time as SSB, so it feels double nostalgic for me to have him in.

(Although I do admit I was against the idea before his reveal, but that's because I wanted either Crono or Chocobo+Slime as a S-E Rep. Even before I liked DQ, I always felt the character should represent both companies at the same time).

The only thing I'm not confortable with is having a Special that charges limit. Limit should be imo built like the KO meter, and Down+B should have been magic. Maybe something like shuffling between Fire/Ice/Bolt everytime you press Down+B.

 

[Sigran101]

Fatmanonice I'm asking you because I heard you've really looked into the stats. Who do you think they line up most with? I know it's not conclusive, but if you had to guess. Also, how significant is the sliding thing? Would you say it's evidence for slime?

 

[Deleted member]

Slime is honestly my second pick from the list after Crono so I'd love if it managed to pull an upset

One for Slime, all for Slime!

 

[Nazyrus]

No kidding. Heck, it's so up in the air that the dataminer himself said it could even be Sora.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Gonna be really funny if "Brave" isn't even a Square rep at this point.

That could very well be the case and the SE character is nowhere close to being in codename form in any data so far and we could be waiting longer for it, lol. Always open for that posibility

 

[cmbsfm]

Did we ever talk about this?
https://gematsu.com/2019/01/koei-tecmo-trademarks-yaiba-ninja-gaiden-z

Don’t know if it means they’ll be releasing Ninja Gaiden Z again this year but it’s interesting since the 5chan leak said we would be getting a Ninja Gaiden game this year.

 

[Deleted member]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQuest/status/1083363078085865472?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

More than likely that's just a coincidence... as cool as she would be.

 

[Deleted member]

FFVII was my first FF so Im kinda biased towards Cloud being in, but to be honest, I have a hard time thinking of any other SE that would have gotten before him.

That said, I wouldn't put much to think about stats and fitting a character to those stats considering the character might not be a SE rep and the character could be pretty unique.

 

[Untouch]

The landing lag is PLACEHOLDER.
It is the same landing lag that Joker has right now.

Also fatman was using Piranha Plant's data anyways...?
Here's Brave's.

The aerial landing lag isn't notable here, but the normal landing lag here is.
I don't know how each landing lag here correlates, but I'm guessing "landing_frame_light" is the soft landing lag and "landing_frame" is the hard landing lag.

This would put his normal landing lag the lowest in the game right now.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I know the move data has been talked about a bunch but Fatmanonice has been doing comparisons of Brave's data to other characters in the Geno thread and determined they think Brave lines up a lot more with the zoners than the swordfighters. If you haven't yet you should check it out.

You do know that the current data parameters are subject to change, right?

Piranha Plant doubled in speed with the most current update, and his aerial lag parameters were also changed.

The current parameters mean little to nothing.

No kidding. Heck, it's so up in the air that the dataminer himself said it could even be Sora.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Gonna be really funny if "Brave" isn't even a Square rep at this point.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

 

[shocktarts17]

The landing lag is PLACEHOLDER.
It is the same landing lag that Joker has right now.
View attachment 186449
Also fatman was using Piranha Plant's data anyways...?
Here's Brave's.

The aerial landing lag isn't notable here, but the normal landing lag here is.
I don't know how each landing lag here correlates, but I'm guessing "landing_frame_light" is the soft landing lag and "landing_frame" is the hard landing lag.

This would put his normal landing lag the lowest in the game right now.

Why would only one stat have a placeholder? Wouldn't it make more sense that they are just the same?

You do know that the current data parameters are subject to change, right?

Piranha Plant doubled in speed with the most current update, and his aerial lag parameters were also changed.

The current parameters mean little to nothing.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

I mean they don't mean nothing, its not like they put random numbers in they are numbers that add up to something. In this case the numbers correlate to those of a smaller zoner. Some may change but it's not like they're going to completely change every stat where there is no point in looking at this.

 

[Untouch]

Why would only one stat have a placeholder? Wouldn't it make more sense that they are just the same?

It may be connected to animations that aren't done yet.
Anyways it doesn't even matter, fatman was comparing Piranha Plant's data.

 

[shocktarts17]

It may be connected to animations that aren't done yet.

That's fair but I'm guessing even if the animation isn't done they probably have an idea for the number they are trying to hit.

 

[fleshdude.gov]

You do know that the current data parameters are subject to change, right?

Piranha Plant doubled in speed with the most current update, and his aerial lag parameters were also changed.

The current parameters mean little to nothing.

Honestly, those parameters changing like that kinda makes me think that was done in the final stages of finishing up Pirahna Plant, since going back and adjusting a character's stats like that is something that would be done after a round of playtesting, since we know that Pirahna Plant was mostly finished by the November direct - and likely even before that point, since directs are pre-recorded and edited in advance. It's likely that in playtesting, they found Pirahna Plant was found to be too slow to be fun to play, so they gave him a bit more speed.

Pirahna Plant is probably a special case here, however - their speed stat was extremely low, so of course raising it a good bit would be an extremely drastic change. However, the other 2 DLC characters - Joker and "brave" - don't have any stats that are that low/high, so I can't see any of their changes being nearly as drastic. It is likely that their current playstyle and data will be the same as, or very similar to, the final product.

 

[Deleted member]

Besides the legendary Just Cause Guy, Sora is my mosy wanted Square Rep. I doubt Disney would say no seeing as how it's free promotion. He would have an amazing moveset.

 

[Sigran101]

The landing lag is PLACEHOLDER.
It is the same landing lag that Joker has right now.
View attachment 186449
Also fatman was using Piranha Plant's data anyways...?
Here's Brave's.

The aerial landing lag isn't notable here, but the normal landing lag here is.
I don't know how each landing lag here correlates, but I'm guessing "landing_frame_light" is the soft landing lag and "landing_frame" is the hard landing lag.

This would put his normal landing lag the lowest in the game right now.

It may be connected to animations that aren't done yet.
Anyways it doesn't even matter, fatman was comparing Piranha Plant's data.

Stop spreading misinformation. He very explicitly said it was brave multiple times. Check his posts in the Geno thread. Because to claim it was Pirahna Plant's data is to call Fatmanonice a liar.

 

[PsySmasher]

I'm getting really worried that brave is slime. Pirahna Plant was bad enough. I really don't want to see a third party generic Mook too.

To be honest, Slime is actually the character I would like most out of the 7 Square characters.

But I do agree that’s it’s kinda weird that generic enemies are now in serious contention ever since Piranha Plant was added.

I swear if both Piranha Plant and Slime end up getting in, but not Bandana Waddle Dee. I’m gonna be REALLY ticked off.

 

[Untouch]

Stop spreading misinformation. He very explicitly said it was brave multiple times. Check his posts in the Geno thread. Because to claim it was Pirahna Plant's data is to call Fatmanonice a liar.

He literally just said that I was right and he got wrong information from a server he was on.

 

[Sigran101]

He literally just said that I was right and he got wrong information from a server he was on.

Ah, okay. I'll take that. My bad.
Edit: in the future you should start with that so it doesn't sound like you are calling someone a liar.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I got it wrong because I was going off information in a server and should have just checked it myself but, yes, aerial lag for Joker and Brave is currently copy and pasted.

 

[Sigran101]

I got it wrong because I was going off information in a server and should have just checked it myself but, yes, aerial lag for Joker and Brave is currently copy and pasted.

Based on this, what are your thoughts on the character now?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Based on this, what are your thoughts on the character now?

It's anyone's game really.

That said, it's still very likely Erdrick.

 

[Sigran101]

It's anyone's game really.

That said, it's still very likely Erdrick.

That's about where I'm at too. I see Erdrick as having the biggest chance, but It could easily be anyone. The frame data may be inconclusive, but the size still gives me pause. I'm leaning towards Geno, Slime, or Sora if it's not Erdrick.

 

[Fatmanonice]

In terms of the “brave” leak: we should look at this: https://mobile.twitter.com/DragonQuest/status/1083363078085865472?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not a DQ fan btw (personally prefer sora), but I don’t think we should ignore her. Especially if we take into account the nimbleness of Brave

https://mobile.twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082674700810182657

Being nimble is one thing but Brave is roughly the size of Toon Link or Ness based on what is known. Even though I was wrong on the aerial lag, everything is fairly different from a typical Smash swordsman too.