Spacing against Falco? And what to do when I get there?

[huMps]

I'm starting to get better at finding that comfy spot against Falco but I'd like to know where everyone else thinks it is. And what the hell do I do when I get there?
I got ideas but I don't know which I should do and that usually results in me guessing and throwing out bull ****, or wasting time and losing my position.

 

[OverLord]

Grab him and start the ****.

 

[huMps]

Say I'm just out of grab range and I know a laser is coming, what do I do?
I could counter I know, but I dont want to spam that ****. Fair out of shield works sometimes but alot of times that gets crouch canceled and I get ****ed.
I'm bad at this match up, any advice would be usefull thanks.

 

[OverLord]

If a laser is coming you can powershield it, just shield it and then Fair OoS, counter it, jump away, crouch it and grab, shield it and wavedash OoS away. If it's a high laser you can dash under it and dash attack.

There's plenty of stuff, just try to not get stucked in shield, that's what Falco want you to do.


Fair OoS is very good, they can crouch it just if they know you are gonna do it, but you are supposed to do it while Falco is jumping at you with an aerial and after a laser, not when he stands on the ground in front of you.

 

[booshk]

what overlord said haha

 

[Wo1f]

I'm terrible at this matchup, I hate Falco. He's stupid.

Anyway, grabs are important. Its one of Marth's best counters to him, considering that, if you can do it properly, its a feww 0-death. Theres a big thread about what to do from approaching lasers. A lot of times if I'm bored, I face a Lvl9 Falco on FD and all I do is run away and practice powershielding.

 

[JrJet]

When versing a falco spamming lasers, I like to full hop over them and land rather than using nair/fair. This can trick falco into using a move thus creating and opening for you.
You can also try full hopping over the lasers, land, powersheild, dash attack into a combo.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jonas]

I can't really recommend full hopping. Marth is pretty slow in the air, and you're just giving Falco the spacing advantage.
But yeah empty hopping is always full of mindgames

 

[booshk]

yeah full hopping's not too good haha

 

[stelzig]

I often fullhop alot against laserspam too, but it's mostly because I suck and get stuck in shield too much when I don't do it.

 

[Bob Money]

wd back hella and if he starts to catch on mix it up.

 

[huMps]

Thanks guys I've been trying to implement all your advice.

 

[Dart!]

wavedash OoS and grab/fsmash dtilt whatever

 

[Tee ay eye]

i think you should....

try to stay like, (marth's) dash attack range away from falco. if you're too close, he can distort and mess with your sword spacing by running and jumping around. if you're too far.... well, he has the advantage because he has lasers (and you have a sword) and the entire stage space to move around and disguise his approach.

if he just keeps lasering, powershield or just try to get in carefully (or recklessly) with waveshield, dash attack, and whatever else you think will work against falco's lasers. if you want to try to play around the lasers rather than just powershielding them, make sure to pay attention to how he wants to laser (assuming he's lasering), also. like... if he's retreating or standing in place, get in that ***. if he's approaching with the lasers.... hit him and make him stop that.... and then get in that ***.

if he gives up on lasers and throws out a normally spaced (i.e. he doesn't overshoot it to call your retreat) nair, dair, or dash attack or something... well..... that's the moment you've been waiting for. grab him and make me proud

and if he's being a terrible human being and using empty SHs and fancy movement to bait your defense (DD grabs, ground moves), well.... then this falco's pretty good. try not to fall for the bait too much, and just make him pay when you can.

 

[OverLord]

and if he's being a terrible human being and using empty SHs and fancy movement to bait your defense (DD grabs, ground moves), well.... then this falco's pretty good. try not to fall for the bait too much, and just make him pay when you can.

I love when Falco is pretty good and do that stuff. It makes The **** way more satisfying.

 

[huMps]

Thanks. Is it always possible to grab falco OoS after he shines? I mean no matter what they do out of shine and no matter how fast they do it, is it always possible to grab them between shine and the next move?

I'm just trying to figure out if I'm too slow OoS or if there is such a thing as perfect aerial to shine pressure and Jesiah's ****ing stupid good at it lol

Either way, timing out of my sheild is what I have been working on more than anything else lately. Just want to know how effective I can expect it to be.

 

[Beat!]

You can definitely NOT grab in-between multishines. Pretty damn sure it won't work against shine --> instant aerial either.

 

[Jonas]

If you're shielding and Falco gets too close, you've basically forfeited a lot of spacing advantages you held. I guess it's smart to have a bunch of emergency OoS options, but I'd really recommend fighting Falco without shielding too much. Try to keep him out of your personal space instead.

 

[stelzig]

Thanks. Is it always possible to grab falco OoS after he shines? I mean no matter what they do out of shine and no matter how fast they do it, is it always possible to grab them between shine and the next move?

I'm just trying to figure out if I'm too slow OoS or if there is such a thing as perfect aerial to shine pressure and Jesiah's ****ing stupid good at it lol

It depends. If they aerial early after the shine then you can grab after the aerial. If they aerial late then you can grab after the shine. If they grab after the shine then the only way to avoid it is rolling/dodging. Multishine you can't do anything against (except may shield DI). Or that's how I remember it anyway
Often i'd recommend just buffering that roll to get out of the situation. If they start punishing you for the roll you can always start doing other stuff.

Edit: My timing out of shield is quite poor as well btw. It really annoys me actually

 

[huMps]

So there is no such thing as actual perfect shield preasure. . . it sounds like worst case scenario ( A falco who mixes up immediate/delayed aerials and grab OoS) just guess lol, and mix it up.
Well I guess that's good news and that is kind of what I assumed but wanted to make sure.
And ya, I try not to go into shield if I can help it but I think I fail in that situation more than most people so I'm trying to really learn all my options and tighten it up.
Now I gotta test this **** out (hard to do sometimes in WNY).
Thanks again

 

[Ryucloud]

shielding vs falco equals a big disadvantage marth has alot of emergency options like jonas said to get out of those situations but as much a possible stay out of those situations

this is how marth should play this matchup i feel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ-82qbOwgA

 

[Metal Reeper]

If you notice Falco is shooting high lasers if you get close enough you can Dtilt em. If you get stuck in shield vs a decent Falco. Just buffer roll, it's not worth getting the grab.

 

[Niko45]

Just let the lasers hit you and dash attack him or utilt instantly after a laser to catch his approach. Pretty much completely *****.

More specifically:

A tipper dash attack length away is a good spacing against Falco. As for your shield game, you have to watch closely to just how close falco shoots lasers at you when they approach. If they like to shoot lasers right on top of you you need to just shield grab them right after the laser. If they like to laser with slightly more room so that they can overshoot a nair/dair approach you need to fair oos. If they are shooting lasers from too far away and undershooting their nair/dair approach they are terrible and you could just WD back oos or do any number of things to punish.

 

[SpeedyJ]

What do you guys think about using Counter in this match-up?

 

[OverLord]

Counter is good. Do not abuse it, just pull it out sometime somewhere.

Also, if Falco doubleLaZorZ from ledge, you counter, he dies.

 

[Palpi]

Chops spoke about letting lasers hit you like niko said, seems legit.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Ohk cool thanks. I've been doing it a lot lately, even though its been working out nicely -- I don't wanna get into bad habits which get my owned against much better opponents.

 

[Orion*]

crouch it and grab

he can't shine you??

O________________o

 

[OverLord]

he can't shine you??

O________________o

I don't think shine can hit you while Falco is jumping at you with an aerial.

But I might be wrong.

lol jk

I meant that you can crouch a laser and grab the approaching Falco, but it obviously depends on what approach Falco is going to do.

If he jumps at you lasering and shines immediately, then obviously you'll get hit. But also that's obviously not the case you should crouch the laser.

I actually try to not get hit by lasers as first choice.