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Sovereign Penguin -- DDD MU Discussion
- Thread starter 9Kplus1
- Start date
Honor
Smash Apprentice
I'm getting wrecked by DDD over the last couple weeks. He out spaces me, out camps me, has a crazy grab range, and a Fair that makes me want to scream.
Any advice you guys would be willing to give me I would really appreciate.
Any advice you guys would be willing to give me I would really appreciate.
You actually lose this matchup pretty handily, you just have to outplay him in neutral, and kill him early out of combos. Take him to a stage with closer blastzones whenever you can. Also, you can deal with a lot of his camping if you just dash dance well in neutral. If you can bait out a f-tilt or waddle toss, you can usually dash attack or fair him out of it, and Dedede's total combo food once you land that first hit. If he gets the grab, he has three options to mix up your DI.I'm getting wrecked by DDD over the last couple weeks. He out spaces me, out camps me, has a crazy grab range, and a Fair that makes me want to scream.
Any advice you guys would be willing to give me I would really appreciate.
If he down throws you, DI down and away.
If he up throws you, DI up and behind him.
If he forward throws you, DI in and up.
Honor
Smash Apprentice
Thank you! The DI tips will help some. I kinda figured the answer would be "win the neutral game" which has been very difficult.
Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
Recently I've been getting my butt kicked by Wario. I've been looking around for videos or tips on the matchup and can't really come up with anything other than shield SideB. Does anybody have any video of the matchup or good advice? Thanks!
X0dus
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 107
Most of the match-up is just outspacing him. He has very poor range and priority and it is a lot of spacing out nair and fairs. I think he has a good combo weight, but you also have to not getting hit because he converts a lot off of you from 1 hit.
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Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
Yeah, I've definitely noticed how important not getting hit is in this matchup. I'm actually trash at combing him though, despite the weight, and I'm having a little trouble spacing hairs around his fair. I think I really just need to watch some good videos, but I'm having no luck finding any. 
Thanks for the response though.
Thanks for the response though.
Smur
Smash Apprentice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOTGQkSQ3tw didn't play it as well as I should haveYeah, I've definitely noticed how important not getting hit is in this matchup. I'm actually trash at combing him though, despite the weight, and I'm having a little trouble spacing hairs around his fair. I think I really just need to watch some good videos, but I'm having no luck finding any.
Thanks for the response though.
trusty
Smash Apprentice
Luigi in 3.6 beta. I. Can't. Do. It. I honestly don't know what the problem is. My biggest issue is normally ivysaur, which is understandable and not unusual to have difficulties with. I'm just getting combined by Luigi like crazy. I can win but. I rack up two tons of damage each time
Ghetto Blush
Smash Apprentice
What are D3's bad matchups? It seems like he can out floaty most floaties, wrecks sword characters, and can edge guard the **** out of fast fallers.
Neither character is dramatically different from the previous patch, so... here, this should give you a decent idea of how to play the match up: http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/c/6863213
If that's not useful on its own, I can explain the gist of the match up myself if you want.
Common misconception. Dedede isn't floaty, he just has lots of jumps. He's actually a heavy fastfaller with somewhere between the 3rd or 5th fastest fastfall in the game.
Dedede's matchup spread is kinda weird because he does pretty well against many of the most prominent characters in the meta; fox, falcon, marth, roy, ganon, wolf, and ness are all favorable or about even for dedede. He also deals pretty well with floaties like jiggs and kirby because he has the jumps to fight them in the air, with the added bonus of superior range and an aimable projectile.
However, Dedede is super fat and slow, so really quick characters with good projectiles or approaches and heavy combo games almost invariably poop on him.
Toon Link, IVYSAUR, Squirtle, Meta Knight, Game & Watch, Mario, Falco, Diddy Kong, Sheik, Pikachu, and Lucas all body him pretty hard from what I've seen, and some of the matchups are so one-sided that they're pretty universally considered unwinnable for D3.
(Also, the only characters who can't edge guard fastfallers easily are fellow fastfallers with bad recoveries)
trusty
Smash Apprentice
I hadn't played any good luigis prior to the new patch, which was probably messing me up. I'm fine with diddy, mk, pika, etc but this ones wS just driving me insane
So, luigi's movement and combo game can be a little rough to deal with in neutral if you aren't used to it, but he's floaty and pretty light, his aerial mobility sucks, and his aerials aren't nearly as disjointed as ours, so your goal is to keep him in the air above you and abuse your disjoints and many jumps. If you can catch him with a grab during one of his approaches or catch him wavedashing away with a quick waddle dash into grab, you should go for an up-throw into an extended juggle with carefully spaced up-airs and occasional up-smash. Because he falls so slowly and has bad aerial mobility, you can pretty easily keep the juggle going until he gets desperate and starts throwing out laggy b-moves (side-b, down-b) that give him a little more movement in the air. Punish these as well as you can, keeping in mind that you want him offstage or dead off the top.
Keep in mind the whole time that he has a 3-frame nair that will beat out any of our non-disjointed moves.
If he lands a confirm before you in the neutral, be sure you're DIing everything up and away with both sticks until he gets you to fair kill percentage. (Then he'll probably go for a d-throw into fair, so DI up and behind him and then fast fall a bair to punish his whiff)
Edge guarding him while he still has his jump and down-b is tricky, as he can mix it up a lot, so be sure to watch exactly how your opponent likes to recover, and cover that. Waddles will also destroy him offstage if you place them right then cover the early side-b or down-b he does to avoid them.
SmashJC
Smash Journeyman
Just trough, beating lvl 9 cpu's with King Dedede is really easy, specially with his side smash and down special 
.
Generally i main DDD in both Brawl and Project M, he's preety OP if you know how to use him. Also i did note that sometimes he doesn't take knockback when dash attacking.
PSD:
I've beaten every single lvl 9 cpu character with him, even Luigi, Roy, Marth and Mewtwo.
DEDEDESTRUCTION!!!!!
.Generally i main DDD in both Brawl and Project M, he's preety OP if you know how to use him. Also i did note that sometimes he doesn't take knockback when dash attacking.
PSD:
I've beaten every single lvl 9 cpu character with him, even Luigi, Roy, Marth and Mewtwo.
DEDEDESTRUCTION!!!!!
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What's special about Luigi, Roy, Marth, and Mewtwo?Just trough, beating lvl 9 cpu's with King Dedede is really easy, specially with his side smash and down special
Generally i main DDD in both Brawl and Project M, he's preety OP if you know how to use him. Also i did note that sometimes he doesn't take knockback when dash attacking.
PSD:
I've beaten every single lvl 9 cpu character with him, even Luigi, Roy, Marth and Mewtwo.
DEDEDESTRUCTION!!!!!
SmashJC
Smash Journeyman
I dunno, but i enjoy smashing them, specially Roy, i like smashin' Roys with mah hammer :D
lol "combing" "hairs"Yeah, I've definitely noticed how important not getting hit is in this matchup. I'm actually trash at combing him though, despite the weight, and I'm having a little trouble spacing hairs around his fair. I think I really just need to watch some good videos, but I'm having no luck finding any.
Thanks for the response though.
AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
DDD's, any contribution to the Community MU Thread?
Apollo Ali
Smash Journeyman
IMO it's too early in 3.6 to definitively tell how some of his more relevant matchups (Fox, Falco, Wolf, Roy, Marth, Ike)_ have changed.
AuraMaudeGone
Smash Ace
That's understandable, and it will change in time.
any or all.
Key Chain
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2014
- Messages
- 26
http://youtu.be/apnLw5bhei8
http://youtu.be/-qUd7ulQfSk
the first link is a casual set we had before the tournament started and the second is our Losers set from the tournament. SPOILER ALERT: I lose both sets. lol thank you and feel free to bash my gameplay. its for a good cause!
http://youtu.be/-qUd7ulQfSk
the first link is a casual set we had before the tournament started and the second is our Losers set from the tournament. SPOILER ALERT: I lose both sets. lol thank you and feel free to bash my gameplay. its for a good cause!
So one thing I'm noticing right off the bat that maybe you're already aware of is that you love rolling away after landing near your opponent. I noticed this right at the beginning because it's something I'm also guilty of when I'm scared or uncertain about my opponent's range, but it's definitely a habit that opens you up to punishment.
On the more MU-related side of things, you're respecting IC's neutral in general too much (going into the air when you don't need to), but you're also not scared enough of getting grabbed. Your goal in this match-up should basically be to never get grabbed.
You also need to be careful about your spacing in the air, cause you keep floating into the range where they can double jump aerial you, when you should be staying just outside of that distance to bait it out and then hit them with a fair or bair to knock them helpless offstage with no jumps.
You had the right idea when you were throwing out f-tilt on the ground and baiting them to approach.
Also, swallow is surprisingly good in the matchup, because you can separate them while putting one offstage if you swallow one and spit the star at the other.
This is also a rare matchup where you don't necessarily want to go for grabs that often, at least while the opponent still has Nana, because you can get punished for it on grab and a whiffed grab will often get you grabbed yourself.
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Greatest Enemy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 9
Hey all,
I figured I should actually go to a tournament and play as Dedede before posting in this thread. It's nice to see that this board is relatively active!So the matchup I had the most torouble with at the tournament was definitely Link. I was in R3 losers and had to play against a Link player from Penn State.
I felt that, while it was possible to edge guard Link, actually getting him off stage was incredibly difficult. I'm not sure if Dedede has that many ways to deal with his projectiles in any effective way. I tried WD out of shield into SH Fair in order to close distance, but I didn't get the Fair most of the time. Boomerang was just too good at making me play safe.
Once Link WAS off stage, I could usually get a Fair/Bair and he couldn't do much after that. I was also able to counter pick to stages that made it a little easier to avoid Link's boomerang/bombs. After I took game 2 against this Link; however, he just took me to Yoshi's and kind of picked me apart with projectiles again.
I don't think Dedede has too much trouble with Link in 3.6, but the neutral seems to be just as hard as ever against Link. I think my problem was just not knowing Dedede's neutral options.
I figured I should actually go to a tournament and play as Dedede before posting in this thread. It's nice to see that this board is relatively active!So the matchup I had the most torouble with at the tournament was definitely Link. I was in R3 losers and had to play against a Link player from Penn State.
I felt that, while it was possible to edge guard Link, actually getting him off stage was incredibly difficult. I'm not sure if Dedede has that many ways to deal with his projectiles in any effective way. I tried WD out of shield into SH Fair in order to close distance, but I didn't get the Fair most of the time. Boomerang was just too good at making me play safe.
Once Link WAS off stage, I could usually get a Fair/Bair and he couldn't do much after that. I was also able to counter pick to stages that made it a little easier to avoid Link's boomerang/bombs. After I took game 2 against this Link; however, he just took me to Yoshi's and kind of picked me apart with projectiles again.
I don't think Dedede has too much trouble with Link in 3.6, but the neutral seems to be just as hard as ever against Link. I think my problem was just not knowing Dedede's neutral options.
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Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
This is more of a trick than a neutral option, but this is something that works really well for me against just about any projectile spammy player. What you do is to air camp them a bit, but stay just close enough to tempt them to fire off more projectiles and hide in their shield. Against Link you could try jumping and fast falling back and forth into diagonal boomerang range. If your opponent decides to go for it, b-reverse or just drop in with neutral b to catch them off guard. This latest patch has made exhale WAY more effective, so this works even better than before for getting people off the edge.
Like I said, this probably won't work too much against really good players, but I have had a ton of success in bracket using this, especially in the latest patch.
Also, where are you from Greatest Enemy? If you were up at Penn State we might live close enough to maybe practice and talk D3 sometime. I'm in the eastern part of Ohio.
Like I said, this probably won't work too much against really good players, but I have had a ton of success in bracket using this, especially in the latest patch.
Also, where are you from Greatest Enemy? If you were up at Penn State we might live close enough to maybe practice and talk D3 sometime. I'm in the eastern part of Ohio.
Air camp with platforms and waddles (it's especially important to toss waddles to block projectiles in this match-up) and come down vertically/diagonally with mix-ups and spaced aerials. Your goal should ultimately be to confirm off of a falling nair or dair into another aerial, aerial command grab them with fast-fall swallow if they shield, or cross up their shield with an aerial and grab them, and then keep them from getting back the stage position and footing needed to set up their projectiles again. Also, be conscious of Link's air-dodge > tether recovery, because that can make it harder for us to edge-guard him successfully and you need to have a plan in place whenever they can use it.
Greatest Enemy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 9
I'm in the northeastern part of Pennsylvania. It's about a 2 hour drive there. Although I might be going to Smash Valley, a two day event they're having. Signups are still going. Hoping I can do even better there!
Also, thanks for the tips, both of you guys! I did try to get rid of stages that were flat or had no platforms. Yoshi's ended up being a really strong counterpick for him because he could get away from me using the one big platform. I guess the tradeoff might be that big randall makes edgeguarding him even easier?
Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
Here's a question for everyone: What is your favorite matchup? Not the one that you think is the easiest, but the one you have the most fun with.
For me it's definitely Falco. I personally think it is a pretty even matchup, but both characters have to play really well and be smart to win. Falco can camp you out with lasers, but smart use of your jumps and waddles can help you beat it. If you get hit by Falco you have a one way to combo town, but the same thing applies if you can land a grab on falco. Not only that, but Falco's horrible recovery makes Dedede's gimp game really effective. Finally, the fact that they are both birds just makes me laugh. All in all it's just a super explosive matchup, where both characters are constantly at a high risk of death no matter the percet. What do you guys think of this matchup?
For me it's definitely Falco. I personally think it is a pretty even matchup, but both characters have to play really well and be smart to win. Falco can camp you out with lasers, but smart use of your jumps and waddles can help you beat it. If you get hit by Falco you have a one way to combo town, but the same thing applies if you can land a grab on falco. Not only that, but Falco's horrible recovery makes Dedede's gimp game really effective. Finally, the fact that they are both birds just makes me laugh. All in all it's just a super explosive matchup, where both characters are constantly at a high risk of death no matter the percet. What do you guys think of this matchup?
Greatest Enemy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 9
Good question... I'll have to get back to you when I play more D3, but for now it's Zelda.
My current training partner in PM plays her, and it's super fun! Still learning to DI her kicks and how to effectively deal with dins. I think upthrow upair is pretty good in this matchup, as it's pretty guaranteed from what I'm seeing. Keeping Zelda pressured is super important as well. If she' can't teleport everywhere around the map it makes your life a ton easier.
As for the Falco matchup, I haven't played it yet! I've played a few foxes, and it seems like playing against fast fallers like them is really fun as well. Comboing them is so satisfying, and dealing with their pressure is really challenging. Edgeguarding them is also a really fun mental game.
My current training partner in PM plays her, and it's super fun! Still learning to DI her kicks and how to effectively deal with dins. I think upthrow upair is pretty good in this matchup, as it's pretty guaranteed from what I'm seeing. Keeping Zelda pressured is super important as well. If she' can't teleport everywhere around the map it makes your life a ton easier.
As for the Falco matchup, I haven't played it yet! I've played a few foxes, and it seems like playing against fast fallers like them is really fun as well. Comboing them is so satisfying, and dealing with their pressure is really challenging. Edgeguarding them is also a really fun mental game.
Ridel
Smash Ace
Hey guys do you think it would be a good idea to start talking about specific MU's each week? It would make navigation a lot easier and would give us all a reason to discuss with each other more frequently.
Greatest Enemy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 9
There isn't much PM going on in my region, so I don't have a lot of character specific practice. I would be happy to discuss, though.
I'm all for learning through discussion, and I'd love it if this board were even more active than we are now.
I'm all for learning through discussion, and I'd love it if this board were even more active than we are now.
Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
I would be down for that Ridel! Do you want to take charge and pick the character for each week?
Ridel
Smash Ace
Yeah I wouldn't mind taking charge of this but I think I may open up a poll for character disscussion.
Mudokon117
Smash Cadet
Sounds good to me man.
Ridel
Smash Ace
Alright I'll make a poll and we will go in order based on results.