"Soul Edge! Be unleashed!" -- Nightmare {Soulcalibur} Support Thread

WertQuadNine

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#1
Image was created by me c:
Who is Nightmare?
Nightmare is the most iconic character in the Soulcalibur series published by Bandai Namco. He first appeared in Soul Edge (1995) as the human Siegfried and then continued to be an iconic and very important character of the franchise ever since. He dawns the cursed sword, Soul Edge, that is the main objective of most characters in the series, and has become the embodiment of the weapon itself. You can read more about the character's information here: http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare

Why Nightmare?
Now you might be saying, okay this guy is super cool, but why should he be in Smash Bros? Well I'm glad you asked! Here are a few points I'd like to make.
1 - Arguably the most important thing to look at while talking about potential fighters is what they would represent. As a third party rep from Bandai Namco, he'd bring in a more mature and extreme counterpart to their other representative, Pac-Man. It's also important to note that Bandai Namco is co-publishing Smash Ultimate and probably wouldn't mind including a few more of their own characters in the series.
2 - Another thing to look at is the genre of games the third party characters represent. In this regard, it's clear to see we currently don't have any representation for the 3D fighter genre in Smash Bros. Soulcalibur is one of the most popular series when it comes to this genre besides Tekken. This does bring up the argument of Heihachi vs Nightmare for this representation of 3D fighters. I personally believe Nightmare would bring along a much more creative move-set to the table rather than Heihachi.
3 - Soulcalibur and Nintendo have always had a pretty solid relationship as well. Link appeared as a fighter in SC2, so this type of crossover isn't impossible by any means.
4 - Like I briefly mentioned, Nightmare's move-set would be incredible. He has so much source material to work with that the developers would have a field day developing his abilities. Having a great move-set is a huge pull when deciding characters.
5 - One last point to add in his favor is that he's a villain. Smash is in need of more villains and adding a third party villain would be a pretty exciting situation.​

Playstyle / Movement
Nightmare would definitely play slower with massively strong and swift attacks. Here's a video clip to get you an idea of his playstyle.
At the moment, I don't have time to create a full move-set for the character but would love to see some suggestions in the replies.

Alternate Costumes
Coming from a fighting game series, he already comes prepared with a few alternate skins:

He could also take color schemes from the other characters from the series. Similarly to FE characters.

His Stage

The stage would likely be Astral Chaos from the Soulcalibur series. It's pretty iconic and I believe a fitting style for Nightmare's character.
Read more about Astral Chaos here: http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Astral_Chaos_(stage)

Arguments Against Nightmare
Now the lame part. I do recognize a few issues that contradict the inclusion of Nightmare in Smash Bros.
1 - His violence is a pretty big reason to put against him. He has incredibly evil behavior and the game origin he comes from is consistently violent. The whole schtick to his character is hitting opponents with a massive sword... and he doesn't pull punches. Of course, we do have violent characters, but I'm not sure if they come close to the intensity of Nightmare.
2 - He's also not the most popular character out there. He definitely isn't a nobody, but compared to other 3rd party options like Crash, Banjo, and Rayman, he doesn't really stack up head to head.
3 - Heihachi could be considered over him. Another Bandai Namco rep that comes from a 3D fighting game that also happens to be more popular. Really the only thing Nightmare has over him is the uniqueness of the character. Who knows, maybe that goes a long way.

Supporters!
Leave a reply issuing your support, and I'll add you the list!

Together we can make Nightmare a reality.
Previous thread can be seen here. Don't worry, I have the blessing of the owner Welshy91 Welshy91 to create this new one
 
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WertQuadNine

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#2
... and while we're at it -

Who is Siegfried?
To be honest, this question isn't super straightforward lore-wise, but you can read up on him here: http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Siegfried
Game-wise, he is a mainstay of the series and even sometimes considered the main character (don't worry, Nightmare is still more iconic). He's appeared as a playable fighter in every entry... except 4 when he was an alternate costume of Nightmare. Yep, that's how similar their playstyle is. Canonically the two are very intertwined and this reflects heavily in their gameplay. Aka, he's basically the definition of Echo fighter.​






updates:
8/8 - Updated the Fighter card from 66 to 68
8/9 - Added Siegfried as a potential echo
8/10 - Added in some alt suggestions by Blade of Evil's Bane Blade of Evil's Bane
8/30 - Removed the mention of rumored SC6 port for the switch
 
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Scicky

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#5
I'd definitely prefer him over Heihachi but my #1 choice for a second Namco rep is Lloyd from ToS. I put so many hours into SCII on gamecube though so I'd still be really excited to see him and between Soul-edge and his ridiculous arm size I think he'd be a really unique fighter.
 

Ridley_Prime

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#7
I hadn't posted here? 0_o Guess it was in a previous Nightmare thread from another sub-forum, but definitely support. Still my most wanted Namco character, despite not being seen as likely or iconic as some others.

Looking forward to rocking him in Soul Calibur 6 regardless come October, and then switching back and forth between SC6 and Smash Ultimate come December.
 

Kenith

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#10
I want an epic CGI trailer of him fighting Link so, so badly
also, while overall Nightmare isn't like, the most unique character ever, he could be like Ryu in that copying his series' mechanics into Smash would make him more distinct from other sword users.

IE. Guard Impacts, Stance changes, Soul Charge, etc.
 

ryuu seika

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#12
also, while overall Nightmare isn't like, the most unique character ever, he could be like Ryu in that copying his series' mechanics into Smash would make him more distinct from other sword users.
I guess but that hardly seems necessary when his sheer range seperates him from any other SSB sword user and his speed seperaes him from any other heavy. The way I see it, Nightmare would have the power of a heavy and the speed of a middleweight but suffer from some very high commitment moves with long, drawn-out animations. If he misses an attack, it'll still be active but he'll be easily punishable.
If, however, people try to approach him recklessly. Well, he can explode away anyone who gets too close.
 

ZoroCarlos

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#13
Add me to the support list. Love me some Nightmare.

If somehow both Nightmare and Heihachi were added: Spawn for Smash! and that way We'd have the three SCII exclusives and Nightmare in the same game duking it out.

Joking aside. Yeah I definitely support the bringer of darkness.
 
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verysleepywolf

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#14
I am a long time Soul Calibur fan. I don't think it's deserving of a character. Yoshimitsu, a character from both Tekken and Soul Calibur that has a much stronger legacy, loyal fans, special favoritism from Namco and colorful personality / moveset, probably stands a bigger chance here. I'd also greatly prefer Yoshimitsu over any other Tekken and Soul Calibur character because I am one of those fans. I would be pretty amazed if Nightmare was in there, but I don't think he's the best choice.
 

Kenith

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#15
I am a long time Soul Calibur fan. I don't think it's deserving of a character. Yoshimitsu, a character from both Tekken and Soul Calibur that has a much stronger legacy, loyal fans, special favoritism from Namco and colorful personality / moveset, probably stands a bigger chance here. I'd also greatly prefer Yoshimitsu over any other Tekken and Soul Calibur character because I am one of those fans. I would be pretty amazed if Nightmare was in there, but I don't think he's the best choice.
Only, Yoshimitsu appears in both series, but is relevant to neither.
He's a side character in both series, whereas Nightmare and Heihachi are pivotal to Soulcalibur and Tekken, respectively.

Plus, it'd be hard to create a moveset for Yoshimitsu as he is completely different in both games. And his designs vary drastically too. Not only does it make him less recognizable (unlike Nightmare who is fairly consistent) but which design do you use? Regardless of what you choose Yoshimtisu will lean towards representing one series so he's not representing the other very well.

I've seen this argument a lot but I don't think it has any weight to it.
 

verysleepywolf

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#16
it'd be hard to create a moveset for Yoshimitsu as he is completely different in both games.
I just want to point out that this is wrong, his moveset pretty much evolves from Tekken into Soul Calibur, then back into Tekken as both series progress. Button inputs are inherently different between Tekken's punching and kicking and Soul Calibur's horizontal / vertical weapon swings, is this what you were referring to? Healing meditation, manji dragonfly, hopping around on his sword, toxic breath, the helicopter flag... no his moveset is very distinct yet consistent between both Namco fighters. I would love to see him in SSB despite it being impossible. I would also argue his relevancy is more than you say it is because he's never been absent in a Tekken or Soul Calibur game. And Yoshimitsu could easily have his own SSB specific costume designed by Sakurai, which I think he would have a lot of fun with.

It would be very hard to get excited about seeing Nightmare in SSB when he's not the most interesting character in the lore. Of course I mentioned Yoshimitsu because I am a fanboy, but there's also Ivy, Voldo, Talim, Cervantes, Tira... there are so many creative characters in Soul Calibur that aren't Nightmare and it seems like people settle for Nightmare just because he is the series mascot, which also prevents any other Soul Calibur character from getting in because it would simply feel wrong to have any of them INSTEAD of Nightmare. I love Soul Calibur for its variety, not particularly for Nightmare, yet he would be the sensible choice. All he does is swing a bigass friggin sword, but he's got spotlight power.

With all of that said, I don't care to see Soul Calibur represented in SSB. It doesn't deserve it, especially when compared to Tekken and other Namco properties that have more recognizable characters. Even ignoring "representation" and "relevancy" logic, I don't see his moveset being much better than supercharging Soul Edge with pretty colors and flailing it around.

I wouldn't be mad if he got in, he would at the very least look awesome in motion and boost villain roster presence. Peace and respect. :ness:
 

Ikenna

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#17
Ayy, always wanted some SoulCalibur representation since Smash 4. Support! I also hope for SoulCalibur 6 on Switch.

About argument #1 against him, I actually think Nightmare's brutality is a positive for him. Don't we just love the feeling of seeing and hearing his attacks land? His throws would be awesome! I do think Smash's cartoon (but only slightly) and sound effects would take away some of the feeling of the impacts as of late based off of how Smash 4 treated most characters' attacks as maybe Ultimate's effects would be better about it. Gotta have the thrill laced in every hit of his!
 

SvartWolf

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#18
I also would love some Soul Calibur representation in Smash. way more fun that tekken IMO. BTW.... didn't this thread already existed somewhere? :s

What I'M Really hoping for is thaqt SCVI have good graphics settings on steam, which could trranslate to an easy port to switch ...
 

Gemini-Gene

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#24
I'd like to be added as a supporter. Around Smash 4 newcomer speculation I was thinking how cool it would be to have Nightmare, or Yoshimitsu with a unique Smash Bros design in Smash 4. Then Final Destination was revealed and I thought it was a tease for Nightmare because the stage looks like a split between the Soul Edge and Soul Calibur, while the background theme/setting looks like it could fit as a final boss stage in the Soul Calibur series.

Unfortunately we didn't get a SC character in Smash 4 but now that we're getting a new SC game soon, and Nightmare is relevant again there's still a chance that we could get Nightmare, or Siegfried, or both and have Nightmare as an Echo Semi clone in a similar way Chrom was handled. Though I also believe that Heihachi might be chosen over a SC rep due to his Mii costume and Sakurai wanting to include him in Smash 4.
 
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#26
Hard to say if it could be an alt costume for Nigthmare or Siegfried (since it's kind of both at the same time) but:

It was originally an alt skin for Nightmare in SCII (since Siegfreid wasn't there in this one, in fact he was just Nightmare).

This alt for Nightmare would be sick (SC IV) :

A last one for Siegfried from SC IV (because hype):

This thread got me so hyped up i've dusted off my old Soul Calibur II yesterday :p
 
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#28
Nightmare with a Siegfried echo? Those are my boys, I gotta support.

I don't even know how many quarters I pumped into the old Soul Calibur 2 arcade back in the day, destroying my way through the Conquest Mode with Nightmare.

With Simon in, I'd love to see the two go toe to toe in combat.
 

CaptainAmerica

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#29
Soul Calibur's a great game; pity the last two main series games were rushed piles of garbage. I'd love some Soul Calibur in Smash - definitely more impressive to me than Tekken.

I remember as a kid I thought Ivy would be sweet in Brawl.

And besides, if SC6 isn't coming to the Switch, Link and Siggy need a rematch...
 

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#30
Since I saw the idea brought up... What if Nightmare was an echo of Ike? Regardless of how he got in, I'd be happy as long as he was in, but y'know.
 

Soulsaint

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#33
I'd really like him or Heihachi as a Namco fighting game representative. But I think Nightmare would fit better overal. I would love for one of his costumes to be Siegfried alt from SC2
 

CaptainAmerica

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#37
https://www.dualshockers.com/soulcalibur-6-no-switch-maybe-later/
Bittersweet news. I was hoping for some miracle surprise, but at least we have confirmation it's not happening quite yet.
Ah, that's unfortunate, but at least it's confirmed. I was really hoping that Link'd show back up as a guest again for a rematch with Nightmare and Ivy. His style of fighting was definitely different from the various Alexandras, not the least of which was because he was a lefty.

Speaking of Soul Calibur lefties, Raphael when? I'd love amy, but she's canonically about 6-8 here, so I'm not expecting she'll be in. I'm guessing that's also why Tira's DLC, considering she'd be around 13 or so during this timeframe (then again, so is Talim...)
 

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#38
“Better late than never”, as they say... Just waiting for Lizardman now out of remaining veterans for SC6 I guess, but the way Tira’s being handled as DLC is not cool admittedly.
 

Soulsaint

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#39
Tira is my favourite character so F me I guess, but also i guess yay cause I can get her atleast. There is a leak going around that the last characters will be Raphael, Cervantes, Lizardman and Hwang. Though the last two are still up in the air on wether they are truly playable. This leak got other character right before, including Azwel(who is awesome). So safe to say they actually got insider info.

I so hope that Hwang returns, at least I have to only mourn Li Long and Rock after that.

Edit: I planned on buying SC6 so i had something till Smash. But if a Switch version arrives next year, then Ill probably regret getting it now. I have literally two games that I play on xbox one. I only bought that for fighting games and kingdom Hearts, but its nostly my multimedia device now. The Switch excites me so much more, and I don't even really like a lot of Nintendo titles in general.


Edit2: did anyone see this?https://www.dualshockers.com/soulcalibur-6-could-be-last/

So i guess I actually will be pre ordering the game then :|. Do not want the series to die.
 
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