Sorcerer's 11 Open

[Xivii]

Did Wisp vote me when I was being wagoned?

 

[ranmaru]

Doesn't matter. I think I'm actually close to solving the team, Zen. Just you wait.

 

[funnier6]

Still waiting for a follow up? It’s usually anti-town to make a post saying you’ll do something, but then forget after a couple more posts.

I like how you state it so everyone knows its safe to find that scummy

Also lol Ex has the attention span of a gerbil he doesn't remember BLOODY ANYTHING

And how am I supposed to conclude anything from an early list where 8/10 people are null; lists are made to be compared at different points of the game imo, a single loose list before any info is revealed is as useful as Gold Pills.
I said already that if he's (she?) town then the list seems to be honest and humble. If yall expect something more than a shallow impression yall overthinking too much how to play imo k thanks sorry not sorry.

Dang Ex youre starting to sound like me

I’ve been the same person the whole game

I find this interesting

Third, I’m actually trying to figure out this game using my newfound tricks of the mafia trade that I gathered in my absence.

How's that working out for you

You're wearing a mask

Why do you wear that mask

 

[Wiisp]

Did Wisp vote me when I was being wagoned?

don't believe I did?
I saw no reason to, your wagon was already getting high, and I still had my doubts between, powerwolfer and/or a townie that believed his reads
if you did not claim what you did I'd probably have voted you by now, since I didnt particularly think my paranioa was justified enough to not just yeet you out of the game

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Yeah, he's purposely ignoring my content to call it null at that point. Now he's trying to force a scumread. That's the simple fact of it all.

Force? I didn’t expect you to villainize me just because I decided to give your posts scrutiny. I am very much intrigued here.

Ranmaru's content where I'm at is particularly lackluster. With that being said, I will concede that I am primarily focusing on Ranmaru's posts because I do think there is merit worth investigating, based on how I've stated I feel about this slot. Here is my current location and all of the Ran posts:










Xivii and Osie are openly having a discussion with each other about Pythag and etc, and Ranmaru just seems to be interjecting questions without really commenting on any of the happenings. I agree that this is all taking place at 3 AM, but at that point it would be more useful to sleep than to produce artificial content. Unless, of course, the artificial content was necessary to make themselves known in the town to be consistently contributing. Maybe they'll do something townie during the day, but I'm really not seeing it. Just a lot of questions.

I see the merit behind asking the questions of course, but the problem is that they are asking questions and not following up on the importance of the answers, and/or providing additional insight between the questions. I personally aim to have a mix of content types, but that does not seem to be the case for Ranmaru at this time.

Surprisingly this post hurts a push for a Pythag lynch far more than it helps one.

Ranmaru time again. Once more, seems to be playing with the goal of inflating their post count? This obviously was not the true intention, but the amount of posts here really speaks to quality over quanity, and I'm doubtful of whether they are trying to solve the game for the number of times they got off topic in this thread. We have a Decisive Games Social Thread for a reason. I get that it could be an inconvenience to move away from the Sorcerer 11 thread, but this page was spread out over a period of 6 hours.

More of Ranmaru-hour. Still waiting for Ranmaru to analyze a post or two and talk about how that develops their reads, rather than make general posts, some questions, and a megawall of reads once in a while to appear to be contributing.

Not one of your many quotes that I grabbed from this morning makes me think you’re town.

 

[funnier6]

Where did I ask for your help? I didn’t.

Its things like this that make me go like

Maybe this is why I always seem to want to have an attitude with you

Its so pretentious to answer a question like that instead of just saying "I wasnt asking for help" its weird and rude

I’m feeling pretty confident about the status of my reads and I don’t need you misinterpreting me.

The overall defensiveness is super strange when lol all it was was a simple question of why are you relying on this new person

Thats such a ridiculous and harmless thing to blow so wildly out of proportion as though slandered

Its also just a really insecure feeling like

The whole nature of this post is so uncalled for

So you are talking about the Mamboo questions. And they are “pointless”? Literally what are you talking about? That strategy isn’t townie, it isn’t scummy either. It’s literally asking questions to progress the game for newbies as an alternative to RVS. I brought the game down to a level where Mamboo could actually contribute, and it’s pointless now?

2/3 of those questions were objectively terrible and pointless

The third was mildly interesting but the point is

They really really did not condescend to a new player or advance the game and I think you know that

 

[ranmaru]

I just want to state that this is UP's first actual push of the game, and he waited this long to do it.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I just want to state that this is UP's first actual push of the game, and he waited this long to do it.

In case you have forgotten, I was also there for Z25 and Lore. Why would you neglect these? To devalue my arguments?

 

[Xivii]

I think I'm actually close to solving the team, Zen. Just you wait.

<3

Wiisp it seemed to me you at least had an inkling of why I was defending pythag, based on these:

idk if I necessarily believe this yet, its possible Xivii believes his thoughts, and thats more townie than not
like of course there is a world where he is just maliciously defending a wolf in a world where he is the sorcerer
but meh

I mean im not there yet
and IDK what Xivii is doing, I am trying to understand this from his mindset, and he probably just believes all his thoughts, IDK how strongly I want to hold onto this, but we will see

1. UtopianPoyzin
2. #HBC | Kary
3. Xivii (think I am ok with removing this from the lynch pool today, we will see)
4. Z25
5. Pythag
6. Wiisp
7. ExLight
8. funnier6
9. Ranmaru (because Osie likes them, and I have yet to see anything I hate, may change)
10. Raxxel
11. osieorb18

And you even seemed to think I was town when Osie stared to push me, but you were still willing to go along with the lynch:

Xivii you are like threading the line right now
You are borderline tmi'ing people, and I am really indifferent about it

I hate these reads, I don't necessarily believe them at all

I don't think xivii has any idea what he's talking about

I mean I don't really see many wolves play this?

I think the effort it takes to believe xivii is town, isn't worth just not lynching him either today or tomorrow

The blue is especially puzzling to me. You had insight that I was town, but you still went along with Osie, barely putting up a challenge.

 

[funnier6]

funnier: Been reading more into this slot. 468 is a mostly bad post. Specifically claiming that they would have the same mindset as Lore this game and ragequit if in their shoes,

I was trying to skim ahead and try to get to some good stuff, but what

I cant even begin to vehemently deny ever saying thinking breathing a word of that in my life

I advise you to reread friend because you will find my views are quite the opposite to the extreme

Now please if I could just sleep

 

[Xivii]

I just want to state that this is UP's first actual push of the game, and he waited this long to do it.

If UP is a part of your game solve, you're going to need to start over.

 

[ranmaru]

You remember Dabuz right.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Its things like this that make me go like

Maybe this is why I always seem to want to have an attitude with you

Its so pretentious to answer a question like that instead of just saying "I wasnt asking for help" its weird and rude

The last time I played with Kary I got this:

UtopianPoyzin stop playing mafia

So funnier6 I literally couldn’t care less about how I sound to you and you aren’t going to tell me what I can and can’t post.

How's that working out for you

You're wearing a mask

Why do you wear that mask

This has to be the stupidest “gotcha” I’ve ever read in all my time playing mafia. I cannot even begin to comprehend the reason you are quoting 80% of the things you are.

2/3 of those questions were objectively terrible and pointless

Okay, but if Mamboo literally cannot participate in any other way then they are at least going to answer three questions that they have the mental capacity to answer. They chose to play, so they should know what they need the most help with and how they can even help in the first place.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The last time I played with Kary I got this:

I don’t really care about the gambit I made then anymore but the point is Kary can take it and it isn’t directed to you funnier6 .

 

[funnier6]

I don’t really care about the gambit I made then anymore but the point is Kary can take it and it isn’t directed to you funnier6 .

I don’t remember saying it was

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I don’t remember saying it was

You’re taking advantage of my frustration so I’m going to bed. We’ll probably have a snow day tomorrow.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Funnier hasn’t really helped and I’m fine with lynching Kary blah blah words.

 

[Wiisp]

so basically I handled you in a way that was not informed, noted
I am not taking the time out of my day, while at work to defend someone that I am waffling on
Wolves don't play this like, doesnt mean its not happening, it was just a thought that crossed my mind, I say what I am thinking rather than holding onto them, so there are likely to be contradictions now, and in the future

If I live today, I will do my due diligence over the night phase, for now, not so much

 

[Wiisp]

I swear I don't think you guys know how to attack someone that isnt a top wagon...
UP is top wagon, and now everyone just see's everything they ever did as wolfy

 

[Wiisp]

anyways I am going to sleep,
see you in the morning
its my day off, so I can do some deeper rereads of peoples' isos

 

[Z25]

I was trying to skim ahead and try to get to some good stuff, but what

I cant even begin to vehemently deny ever saying thinking breathing a word of that in my life

I advise you to reread friend because you will find my views are quite the opposite to the extreme

Now please if I could just sleep

Why are you posting stuff from way earlier this phase when everyone’s mindset has changed and a lot has happened discussion wise to create different viewpoints?

I keep trying to figure out why but I see no reason for it

 

[Xivii]

Ranmaru - Town

Could you give me a rundown of Ranmaru's town meta and scum meta?

So I know you want to see Ran as scum, but he honestly isn't. And I meant it when I said he's the easiest person to read in mafia once you know him (others can also confirm this). When in doubt, this meta is essentially full-proof: if he's playing the game he's town. It sounds ridiculous, I know, but he honestly just doesn't like being scum. He really can't stand it and either doesn't post or does the bare minimum when he rolls it. As town, he's on 24/7 flooding the game with questions. The last game we played in together, he even straight up claimed he was scum because he was so bored. Fortunately, we were on a super friendly site and no one was upset.

Raxxel - Town

I may have to reconsider this tomorrow because honestly I threw Raxxel out as a possibility a long time ago and haven't thought about it since. There's been multiple times where Raxxel has stated word-for-word what was in my head, it's really uncanny.

DystopianElixer - Town

His going after a top town read is townie to me. Not having yet gained the necessary Ran meta, his push makes sense. And he hasn't had any guilt/fear about his play all game. He comes off to me as unfiltered and pushing what he thinks is right. In our scum game together, he was much more willing to back down when challenged and also hop on the ongoing wagons.

pythag - Town (Potential Sorcerer)

I do think pythag is town, but I'm not going to fully discount the possibility of sorcerer yet. I don't really see a need to reevaluate it today though.

Osiemandias - Town (Potential Sorcerer)

Spoiler

Their play contains all the stereotypical townie things, but a few of their posts make me uncomfortable and I don't think they should be given the amount of trust everyone is giving them.

Also, you can fully expect that I will ask for a massclaim near the start of Day 2 if I'm alive irregardless of my alignment.

This isn't monty hall, though. They only have a marginally higher probability of being scum. You don't know that you definitely picked scum in 3 players in the pre-game.

This is quite worrying. You do not mass claim in this setup. First, our mission is to keep the identity of the Hunter concealed for as long as possible. Second, there is no reason to. It is an open set up and each power role resolves itself. Scum can't even counter claim. It's mainly this that makes me wary of Osie and the power he wields over the players in this game.

I picked up on this too. For the board: do you think that Osie is trying to avoid scrutiny or does this post sound like a reasonable response to Xivii? I feel like its the latter due to the context, but I won't lie that I tossed the possibility of the former around in my head for a bit.

I think it's a town reaction. Self-meta almost always comes from town, and the fact that osie broke his belief about meta when backed into a corner makes me feel even more likely it's coming from a non-wolf.

Kary - Town Lean

Kary is a savage, and his savagery is town. I thought the two points he made about UP and some of his other posts were solid and gave me the impression that he's working things out.

Funnier - Town lean

He hasn't said a scummy thing all game, and his tone has been townie all throughout. I'm not fully discounting him because he hasn't yet participated live and Ex seemed be scumreading him earlier.

ExLight - Scum Lean

I'm giving weight to UPs read, but I still don't like how Ex tried to make it seem like pythag was scumreading them and then overreacted to it. Then never admitted to their misinterpretation.

Wiisp - Scum

See the points I made here. Wiisp looks the worst of anyone surrounding my wagon. Super hedgey and gave me the impression that they knew I was seer. They said a couple of things too that are just kind of weird like the self-vote thing and their interaction with osie seems onesided. Osie keeps trying to bring up inside jokes and whatnot but Wiisp isn't picking up on them and the whole thing just gives me the impression of sandpaper on velcro.

Z25 - Scum

Z's play has been really polished, but he's had a few slips I think. Mainly, their reads have been inconsistent.

Catching up ( was away because of super bowl),

I don't really commit to strong town or scum reads day one because of how it early it is.

However with Rax's post, I see where they are coming. They haven't played too many games here though so I think its a little early to go and say that funnier is playing to just scrape by like a player in a previous game.

Other then that, they've contributed strong content and I'd be surprised if they weren't town. The only other read I have right now is you. You've been pretty productive and I didn't agree with the early comments of you being agressive, you seem pretty geunie in scum hunting this game and I like how you'd be getting people to interact more.

Other then that I'm 50/50 on other players, but there's a few I'm leaning town. Gotta catch up fully then see what I think of the game.

He has quite a strong town read on Rax here, which I felt was way too strong to have that early. Yet he completely forgets about his read when Ran asks him for his town reads:

Out of everyone currently,
Xi and you I could see more likely to be town, I haven’t taken too much issue towards either of your contents except the hikus but that’s better now.

other scum I would put as either kary, pythag then maybe ex.

mambo behavior wise would make sense as for not helping a potential lore scum if we go with that theory which I do think makes a lot of sense.

Pythag I legitimately forgot was in this for awhile which is odd as he’s a lot more notable usually. And then ex would be a guess if the others weren’t it but it’s more of a potential gut read there. Everyone else is null atm

Here he lists me and Ran as his only town reads. And again this changes in his next post:

Alright so for not getting to post this last night, but my current reads:

Utopian: Leaning town here but went back and forth before their recent content. A post like 455 where they seem to really want the approval from osie isn't great. In any game, saying something like " is it bad I agree with the post" is just a poor statement. You shouldn't need anyone to share your same opinions, or seek that validation. Also explicitly citing that makes it seem like you have nothing but a bad read on the slot in question. By which I mean, his statement here has him sound like he views my content as nothing but bad with little chance to change his mind, and feeling bad about liking content from a player whose content he is against, just comes off as wrong all around. You should always keep an open mind on slots, as sometimes people can make bad posts but still have other posts or great quality. You shouldn't just look down on people because of a few posts you don't agree with. I know that statement was directed at me, but I'm not mad or anything. I just don't that's a mindset to be had towards anyone tbh. Especially when two posts later they immediately go and retract that something for disagreeing with just one line in.

Which is sort of fair, but like you shouldn't throw out an entire post's contents just because you dislike one line out of it but thought the other points were good. If town, that's a really rough mindset to have. I'm not saying this makes them looking scummier, but it doesn't help strengthen my read or lower it on them. Granted I think this is more just an early attempt to engage conversation with different users, which I do like as discussion is pretty important overall, but especially important day one.

Overall I see this slot as a pretty strong town one. 603 for examples is short but gives a good example as to why I like this slot. They make sure to stay committed to their thoughts and are pretty interactive.

545-547 shows they are really looking to interact with everyone which in turns strengthens their reads and offers a lot of good discussion in this game, that I find to have helped things move forward smoothly. I'd find it unlikely for scum to be this active and trying this much to discuss the game with everyone. So they have a strong town read in my book. Would be pretty surprised if they are scum.

Xivii: One of the users I don't have a good feel for atm. They have been active, but their presence isn't made as big as some of the others on my list, so I don't have a good read. This might be an attempt to stay low radar as a scum, but it's hard to say. I am leaning scum, but its definitely a weaker read right not and not a user I would say is a priority lynch today.

Kary: Not much to say here, I want to see their thoughts when caught up and go from there. As for who they replaced. I didn't like mambo but thats not a hot take. He was was just trolling and being annoying in this game and I genuinely don't even account that to being new, he just didn't care. While that is scummy behavior, its scummy out of a game's context, but in game it probably didn't mean anything when mambo was just trolling to troll. I doubt their alignment would have changed that.

Rax: Didn't have a great read on the slot before but their 565 post of their reads and breakdown gave a lot of content. Solid analysis and gave me a good idea on how they are thinking this game compared to the other posts they made. I can't see Scum Rax posting that much and that strong of an analysis. Hoping we get to see more content from them that is that in depth.

Pythag: Honestly forgot they were planning until yesterday. Their interactions with EX as I noted were interesting. I get more of a attempt to scumhunt vibe more then anything else, even if I believe Pythag could have been offering more content all around as what they have posted hasn't given me much to work at to get a good feel for them as a player. Even in past games I've played with them recently, they've been more on the lower inactivity side so I don't have good ways to measure this slot.

Lore: I've already said plenty here, but they did nothing but act poorly this game over a little thing and their behavior was far from town intent. I've already discussed them as I said so I don't have anything to add, just read my other posts if interested. Still thinking they had the most scummy behavior out of anyone and am leaving my vote for now. I don't know if we will find a replacement but if we do I'll unvote and see how I feel about the replacement. Otherwise this slot might be host killed if there is no replacement or if they are left be, that's one less player we have, which is overall bad. Scum could keep targeting people and there would be one less slot to potentially stop them if the lore slot wasn't scum themselves. Right now though, I think given everything Lore is a strong scum candidate for the vote today.

Exlight: I've already made an analysis here, but they are still a scum lean, but not a slot I would put as higher then Lore's behavior was as scum. They would be a decent pick today for a lynch based on what I outlined yesterday.

funnier: Been reading more into this slot. 468 is a mostly bad post. Specifically claiming that they would have the same mindset as Lore this game and ragequit if in their shoes, as well as the fact that they think Lore being toxic this game and quitting, makes them a stronger town read to them. That's not at all how mafia should be viewed or played. Could Lore have been town and rage quitting? Sure but their reasoning behind quitting feels anti town to me and should definitely not be viewed as a good thing.

I also do not like the bottom part of that post. Pointing out that another player has a habitat of lying in games, feels like a jab to try and setup EX down the line. If your townie you should not be using your connections/interactions with someone in other games to control a narrative for the current game. When its likely they aren't both scum and could both be townies; not knowing each others roles, then pointing out that a player is a liar is a scummy move. It uses non physical evidence and is circumstantial evidence at best. But I don't think it should be used as evidence at all.

In 476 they pretty much admit to hardly reading and paying attention to this thread. They truly seem to care little here and that's anti town. Even if new to this site, you signed up to play, if town, you should really be using these day one posts to learn about all the users you aren't familiar with and form reads around that. Someone who is suppose to be very experienced should give a lot more of a damn about the game at hand. So I'm feeling this slot has a good chance to be scum.

ranmaru: Still not much I can say here. They've been active, but I just don't have a good read based on their posts. Its hard to gauge who they are as a player from their content, at least to me. If I had to choose an alignment I'd probably go with town.

osie: I may not have liked the haiku bit, however unlike Lore, I think trying to push votes onto someone for that was stupid. As I said before, I didn't agree with the format, but when their posts got longer, the content was pretty good. Even when it was shorter, I wasn't getting scum vibes from their content. Overall pretty solid slot that's been active and are likely town. Their content on page 15 gives me similar vibes to Utopian's. A lot of interaction effort is being made here with some nice and long posts. Starting with their reads that page then breaking down their thoughts more and making sure to discuss with ran on the page, feels pretty townie to me and was a solid exchange.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok so that's my thoughts so far. I've definitely gotten stronger reads but I still would like to interact with ran and xiivii to learn more about them when I can.

In terms of overall ratings right now:

Town:

Utopian
Osie
ran( more of a town lean, need to better my read here)
rax

Null:

Kary

Scum lean:

Xi
Ex
Pythag( Would like to see more here to truly decide on where I'd place their alignment)

More then likely Scum:
Lore
Funnier

Here has Ran as just a town lean, me as a scum lean, and Rax back as town. He also explicitly states that he didn't have a read on Rax before (the blue), which confirms that he made up his previous read.


There's some more stuff: contradictory statements and his play from the very start was been adaptive/accommodating (the opposite of UP). Every time someone calls him out on something, he immediately adjusts his play in return. I'm too tired to go any further than this though and I have to get up in a few hours. I may have more tomorrow, but around midday I'll be without phone or computer.

Vote: Z25

I think it was a mistake to assume early on that Lore and Z25 couldn't be scumbuddies. Z didn't actually keep going at the haiku like Lore did and the way Z25 and Wiisp have interacted has high partner viability. Scum often either avoid each other or act unnecessarily aggressive toward each other. When Wiisp joined the game and asked why they were being voted / and voted Z25, Z's reaction was the first time he responded aggressively to someone this game, and it was out of left field. Wiisp responded aggressively in turn.

They also both insisted that they were voting each other out of self-preservation, which is a masterful way to distance your scumbuddy. I was puzzled why Z was so open to this assessment of his vote early in the day, but it makes sense if Lore was is buddy.

Also, Z claimed that he was scum reading Lore independently of his self-preservation, yet when Wiisp joined the game, he wrote this in his aggressive post, which I suspect was a way for him and Wiisp to finally take their votes of each other:

Im willing to unvote if I see more content from you. I already said I had a few other lynch candidates based on actions which you would also know if you read the thread and I’m not someone dead set on your slot. Plus I’m not the only one on so your just voting me because i had a wagon. Which I don’t fault you but going by that logic I should be sticking to my vote to preserve my slot. Which I don’t think needs to happen when we can easily discuss other potential lynch candidates today with the time we have left.

If he was willing to vote elsewhere all this time, why not do it before? Why keep his vote on Lore who had no opportunity to defend themselves or claim when it came down to it. Wiisp did nothing at the time that warranted the absolvement of Z's read.


Despite my suspicions of Wiisp as his partner, I'm still going to investigate Ex tonight unless all three of UP, Osie, and Funnier tell me not to. That being said, I would also like everyone to give me 2-3 players they want me to investigate.

Goodnight.

 

[ranmaru]

No. You are only 1/3 correct. I'm almost done.

 

[ranmaru]

Let me open this post to say, that this game, I have been a blind idiot. Yet, Zen has been slightly blind, but he was actually on track. Ever since he brought up the notion that Osie may have been scum with Ex, I took that as shade, and I put out that I found her defense of ZZ5 townie. I found her so townie, that I tried my best not to doubt my read on her, and I let it influence my direction. Now, this game is actually going to be more difficult than I thought, and I was stupid to think it was easy right now. I'm glad the events occured the way they did, because without them, I wouldn't have been made aware of who the scum are.

These are my game winning reads.

Let's begin with Xiivi, the seer, which I actually believe now. Again, he has had good posts and analysis. I got carried away with my concerns with him, and his early game play which seemed odd, and seemed like sorcerer signaling. (That's like cat calling) Either way, he was wrong on scum from the beginning, when I was actually right.

Rax: I have no change in read on Rax, they had a good analysis in #565 which I find solid, and I find no malicious intent from them.

Pythag: Xiivi's clear, and now seeing who I suspect, I can actually believe he's town with his vote and reads. He's also the only person besides Funnier to come to my defense on certain things lately.

Funnier: He's been catching up, which is actually kind of funny to see him keep doing forever and ever because our pace is too fast for him. Seriously though, he's making good points and his tone is townie. I'm having a much stronger town read on him.

ZZ5: I have been feeling much better about him, his presence has gone up, and he's been weighing sides, but that's really all I have from him. Slight town.

Ex: I find his early actions scummy, and I have outlined this in my #685. Yet I actually am not confident in him being scum anymore, because he doesn't fit in the team. He's null now though.

UP

Let's start with UP. Jump up, jump down. JUMP AROUND. Seriously though, he starts the game with stating I'm trying to appear town, when my advice is non-alignment indicative. Next, he has good points, and good questioning, but also has empty questions as well, such as the ones directed to Mambo and Funnier. His read on Raxxel, is very weak, at that point in time, I have done more than Raxxel yet he gives me a null. His only question, is what are my town posts, and I state all of them. He's just not reading enough into my content to actually sort me, nor does he bring up my posts to ask me questions that concerns him. In his #706, he gives me a reads list without reasoning, and then states he's leaving the thread without giving any. Dissapears from thread, while I have provided plenty of content and reads before this point. He comes back to give incomplete reads, and focuses on Funnier for a bit. Then his #920 is actually a bad post, he states that Ex can interpret Pythag's actions however he likes to see it, when in reality, it's logically bad. Ex was literally stretching there, and UP is intentially making an excuse for him here. Now, next, the Pythag push begins, and for a while, he becomes quiet. Phaze forward through wagons to the UP wagon, and he returns to quote my posts from that point on, to case me. I find his push disengenous because he's ignored a large part of my content from the beginning of Day 1, because he's planned to keep me null. He isn't sorting, and he never really had a push of his own until now. ZZ5 and Lore were never his pushes, and I think he's only been voting for ZZ5, and never moved his vote. He has no desire to solve, only to smear.

How hard are you trying to appear town?

Shade.

You're null. Don't have a good opinion on you so I'll have to ask in a bit.

Null at page 15 of the game, when he has a town read which is weak on Rax. (Who has done much less than I have at that point) He wasn't trying to sort me here, and his only question...

ranmaru can you list me some of your townie posts? Thanks

Was this. I told him all of them. This isn't a question to sort my slot, this is to try to get me to town case myself when I don't need to, since I'm focusing on scum hunting. There is never a 'why did you do x' question, because there was no content for him to pin as scummy.

Alright, you got it.

Poyzin
Osieorb
Xivii
Raxxel
Funnier
ExLight
Ranmaru
Kary
Z25
Pythag
Wiisp

It’s really simple right now. I have no reason to delve head first into wine at this moment in time because anybody’s alignment can be fabricated D1, but it’s only after the flips begin to happen that people’s true alignments are revealed.

At this point of the game, many players have already given full reads with reasoning, more than once, and this is what he gives.

I hope you don’t mind, but I’m going to have to pass for a couple hours. Call it scummy if you’d like, but I’m on mobile and that list should suffice for whatever you need at this very moment.

He declines to give reasoning at this point.

I completely disagree. Ex saying that Pythag’s intent was to make him super scummy may be incorrect, at least it is to me. But, that’s ExLight’s interpretation of the events, and doesn’t make him more or less town or scum. I also wouldn’t call it an attack. What it does tell is that Pythag and ExLight are probably not aligned, but that information can’t do many favors on D1 without any flips.

ExLight wanting time “shut down any scum speculation” is your interpretation and you’re free to believe that.

Here, he gives Ex an excuse for faulty logic. Pythag never attacked Ex, and UP is supporting it, by saying he simply interpreted differently, when there is no 'scum pick' to interpret. Pythag never said a thing about that, and his points were fair.

So after 2 hours of me catching up on a whole day's worth of content, I feel the strongest about ExLight in terms of my town reads. I think #1336 is a good townie post and ExLight seems to be picking up on things that scum wouldn't think to focus on, such as competing wagons going into the day rather than all in for a mislynch. While I don't necessarily agree with #1301, it also strikes me as town because it looks like ExLight seems to be planning steps in the future in an attempt to nail the sorc.

Ranmaru and Kary have also dropped, partly due to me reconsidering my positions on my previous reads coupled with Xivii's clear of Pythag. I wanted to start with Ranmaru though. In my opinion, anybody can make a readslist, be it scum or town. And because it's still D1, we still can't use any flips to confirm or deny whether anybody's reads were correct or not.
(Now I'm having a difficult time trying to find the post where Ranmaru said that I was scummy for not giving a readlist without prompting, but I really don't think that this would determine my alignment. The thing I remember most about this post was that Ranmaru tried to make themselves look townie by stating that all of their readlists have been made without prompting, which seems to be LAMIST from my perspective.)
Besides this, I have been quoting Ranmaru's recent posts and a lot of it seems to be lacking a drive to actually try to find the scumteam, making Ranmaru a current scumlean for me.

Will be back in 15 with my take on Kary and Funnier, but I feel like I should at least make these two reads of mine public in my absence.

I think for one, it's suspicious that he says that I'm being lamist when he asked me a quesetion, which would in turn have me be lamist. "Show me your town posts" equals that. So using that as a point, feels disengenous. He also states I do not have the drive to look for scum teams, and I do, and have been voting people, more than he has. My #685 is one example of that. My multiple questions, help develop my reads, and some are seen here. Some have been included in past reads lists. (Examples: Asking zen why he gave Rax a town read, asking Osie how her post was coming along, asking UP for his reads list, asking Pythag for his reads list, asking Kary why he didn't vote Xiivi, etc)

I'll re-iterate. He's purposely ignored my content earlier in the game, and held a null read on me, without questioning me to sort me and improve the read. When a player isn't giving content, it makes sense to have them as null. But when a majority of the playerlist, was reading me as town, and he was constantly null reading me, and not trying to ask me any questions, that is a problem, and shows his mal-intent when he finally uses some off-topic posts as attack points.

---

MISS OSIE

Now let us move on, to the power wolf. Miss Osie, It's not nice to throw people. Seriously though. Let us begin with her early play. Her first vote is on Xiivi, for being 'overly helpful, eager, and dismissive'. The first two points, did not apply in a negative light. The dismissive point could work if Zen was actually being dismissive. Now, let's remember his post. #143. He's questioning UP. Now, my theory is, this is a chain saw. From the very beginning of the game. Now the events of late make much more sense. #532 is where she defends ZZ5, while having him be a scum read. This point was from Zen, but it still stands. She's been very hard headed and tunnely on Lore, but constantly changing her read on ZZ5 slowly from scum to town when arguing with me. Now, defending a town read is good, it is pro-town to do so. Yet this doesn't make sense, she originally scumread him. She agreed that 2/3 of his play was not great, yet in the next paragraph says she's defending him. At this point, ZZ5 did seem more suspicious than Lore, who did not seem to have much suspicion about them, but Osie kept pushing it, and pushing it, to the point where I believe it's calculated. In her #561, she null reads him, stating he started scummy, and that his push on Lore was decent (when it wasn't, and still isn't, even though I find his slot much better now). I don't think she was really hunting scum and sort of giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Next, she states in her #564 that she doesn't like Ex's post, really doesn't like it. She said she'd table it for tommorow to go into it more. Yet, in her #666, she posts a list she was pondering before Z did, with Ex at the very top of her town list. No explanation why. In my #692, I ask her how the post is coming along. In her #750, said she looked back and thought about it, and that it wasn't scummy as much as it made her think Ex was a sociopath. Why make that post if it wasn't scumhunting related, and why state she really didn't like it? Why not just state it outright that he was crazy right there, since that doesn't require tabling to say, or any analysis. I don't think she intended to do any analysis, but wanted to seem like it was something she was going to do, but to mindmeld with ZZ5, it behooved her to have Ex at her town list, so she put it up there without any explanation from that post. It doesn't line up.

Finally, the most suspect of all, is these posts. UP began a disengenous push against me, but while she's been reading me as town, she's been actively supporting each point and disagreeing with others that were defending me. Note that, she has been defending other slots hard, like ZZ5, and Ex, but here, she actively tries to knock me down a peg, her strongest town read, for a time. Yet not once have I wavered on her, which I think was me trying to trust my town reads (the ones who were active and working with me). She really did seem like she was working with me, but she wasn't. I think its good to re-evaluate town reads even, but this seems a bit manipulative. Yet saying things like 'oh but I think ran can pocket me' isn't really a valid point about my play, it's just trying to suggest that, actually ran might be playing with me. That isn't analysis or a conclusion, I don't know what the word is, but it's surely trying to support UP's case WITH bias. The difficult thing is, she's been playing from early game, which I say is good scum play, she's been playing a good game. Yet she's bared her fangs, and it's been made plain to me, that she doesn't have a pro-town motive here. I've had a similar change of read on Xiivi, yet I have had concerns with him all game, but never have I tried to manipulate him and say 'yeah I think xiivi is trying to pocket me'.

Essentially, the short of it is, she's chainsawed (attacked xiivi who was questioning UP). She's had multiple concerning changes of reads. (ZZ5 from scum to null in the same post) Ex with an extreme dislike, yet she lists him as town and never states what she actually disliked. She's not sorting, tunneled to seem like she has conviction, and finally, she's been manipulative and also shading her town read, openly, with bias. Not analysis. It is up to y'all to see what I see, but I hope I was able to show you why she's scum.

Ironic, considering you're analyzing a joke vote. Did you really think I could read someone based off their profile pic?
Why are you addressing Ranmaru instead of challenging me directly, seeing as I'm the one that explicitly asked for everyone to help Mamboo out. If anyone was to be buddying it would be me.

Additionally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with all of us playing as IC's for Mamboo. We can still vote/push him as any other player and inform him not to trust people just because they are being nice (Mamboo don't trust someone simply because they are being nice! You can take our advice as genuine, but you should still look at each player critically. Also if someone says something that is obviously a devious attempt to try and manipulate you, the others will call them out).

UtopianPoyzin why are you being so aggressive? See:

Also, why did you go invisible?

Does not exist yet,
Much analysis material.
Normal for phase length.

Soft lean pings thus far
Do not inspire confidence.
I did not have reads.

Post One-Forty-Three
May include some TMI.
Does Xi slip Mamb Town?

Overly helpful,
Eager, and yet dismissive.
Let's try Vote: Xivii.

Chainsaw. Two of her points are not negative, but she used it as reasoning. Her last point did not apply.

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight. For that matter, details to your reads on most if not all slots would be very appreciated. But don't let that hold you back from giving me details on your read on ExLight.

ranmaru After looking back at Z25, I see where people could be coming from, but again I feel like it's a stretch. The general lack of reads even after catchup isn't great, but they fix that a bit later, and the response to me about Lore wasn't great, but the recent push on Lore looks okay, and the early response to Poyzin, while going after a potential hunting tool, was later well-explained, and well-discussed. It wasn't just a refutation; there was reasoning to it. I feel like some people are also ignoring 454 as a bad response, and I don't agree with that.

So I guess I'm kinda defending Z25 here, because I don't see them as a good lynch right now. Lore-slot and Mamboo-slot are both better choices. I'm looking back at ExLight and Pythag next to see how I feel about the two of them.

She scumreads ZZ5 but changes it to null and defends him in the same post.

I really don't like this post and I'll need some time to work out how best to explain why. I think I'll table that until tomorrow morning, unless I come up with something soon.

Here, she states a real dislike, and that she'd table it for the morning. It implies that it would take some analysis.

I had literally just been pondering this list a few minutes before Z posted 660:

She posts a list that seems to mindmeld (agree with) ZZ5's list, to 'pocket' him. She puts EX at the top of the town list, without any explanation why.

How is this coming along?

I ask how the post is coming along.

It didn't, but I just looked back and thought about it. I don't even think it's that it's scummy so much as it makes me think that ExLight is a sociopath.

She tells me she thought about it, and said he was a sociopath. I say, that shouldn't have taken a day to wait and table, so I find this odd and a lie. She never intended to change the list at a whim, but her progression doesn't line up here. Again, she changed the reads for her own benefit, and not in a natural manner.

UtopianPoyzin
#HBC | Kary
Xivii
Z25
Pythag
Wiisp
ExLight
funnier6
Ranmaru
Raxxel
osieorb18

I'm town, and I'm not lynching Ranmaru, Raxxel, Xivii, ExLight, funnier6, Z25, or Pythag today because they all appear town, in particular in the cases of Xivii and Pythag considering the seer claim. I'm willing to reconsider that entire selection on D2.

Osieorb18

ExLight
funnier6
Pythag
Ranmaru
Raxxel
Xivii
Z25

That leaves:

#HBC | Kary
UtopianPoyzin
Wiisp

Out of the three of those, at the moment, I most want to see UP get lynched.

Vote: UtopianPoyzin

She has me in her town list, and UP and Wisp in her scum. Now notice the next few posts:

He did take some persuading to get off of certain votes.

Ehh, I wouldn't be THAT surprised if Ran is trying to pocket me.

That was strange.

I'm giving Ran another ISO but if I'm not pretty quickly catching onto something, I'm probably sticking on UP.

Vote: Kary

Let's leave it here and go have a nice martini.

All shade. To her town read, at once. She states she'd do a re-read, but nothing came of it. She then votes off UP, with no explanation why, and vote KARY.

Wisp

Finally, the final scum... which will surprise you... is Lore. I think they are the sorcerer, and them voting Osie, makes sense, and Wisp's reluctance to vote UP also makes sense. Really, this is a super weak read, but I'm more confident in UP and Osie here. But you might think that, if Osie is scum, why would she hard push her buddy here? It's beneficial for her as a power wolf. I could be wrong here, and that it might be Ex, but I think Wisp is more likely due to Lore's play.

 

[ranmaru]

TOWN [Xiivi Rax Pythag Funnier ZZ5 | EX | Wisp UP Osie] SCUM

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Osie

 

[Xivii]

I'm still awake.

You remember Dabuz right.

You remember Werekill right.

Haha you always bring this up but forget that you were blind to my Lore read just as I was to your Dabuz.

It may be the same here and I'm willing to consider that some combination of our reads are correct: Z25/UP Wolf + OZ Sorc, but I want to go Z first.

(The layout of your post is awesome btw)

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah I do, and you're right. I'm most confident in Osie.

 

[Dooplissity]

Vote Count
Z25 - 2 - UtopianPoyzin, Xivii
UtopianPoyzin - 2 - Pythag, Kary
Kary - 2 - Wiisp, osieorb18
Pythag - 1 - RaxxeL,
Wiisp - 1 - Z25
Ranmaru - 1 - funnier6
osieorb18 - 1 - Ranmaru
Xivii - 1 - ExLight

Spoiler: Vote History

UtopianPoyzin: osieorb18(4) -> Z25(17) -> Unvote(42)
Mamboo07/Kary: Z25(3) -> Replaced by Kary(18) -> Z25(?) -> Xivii(35) -> UtopianPoyzin(40)
Xivii: ExLight(1) -> Mamboo07(12) -> Z25(14) -> Unvote(22) -> UtopianPoyzin(23) -> Wiisp(33) -> ExLight(34) -> Z25(44)
Z25: Lore(20)
Pythag: funnier6(13) -> UtopianPoyzin(30)
Lore/Wiisp: osieorb18(11) -> Replaced by Wiisp(24) -> Z25(26) -> Pythag(32) -> Unvote(40) -> Kary(41)
ExLight: Pythag(21) -> Xivii(36) -> Unvote(38)
funnier6: ExLight(7) -> Ranmaru(27)
Ranmaru: funnier6(6) -> OsieOrb18(9) -> Unvote(10) -> Z25(19) -> ExLight(25) -> Pythag(29) -> Xivii(37) -> UtopianPoyzin(39) -> osieorb18(45)
RaxxeL: Lore(5) -> Pythag(31)
osieorb18: Ranmaru(2) -> Xivii(8) -> Unvote(15) -> Lore(16) -> Pythag(28) -> Unvote(32) -> Kary(43)

Deadline is Feb 6th @ 5:00:00 PM PST, which is ~15h from now.
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to reach majority.

 

[Xivii]

Well let the pieces fall where they may, then.
Goodnight.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, I'd prefer you check one of my scum picks that you think isn't sorcerer.

 

[osieorb18]

Ranmaru - Town

So I know you want to see Ran as scum, but he honestly isn't. And I meant it when I said he's the easiest person to read in mafia once you know him (others can also confirm this). When in doubt, this meta is essentially full-proof: if he's playing the game he's town. It sounds ridiculous, I know, but he honestly just doesn't like being scum. He really can't stand it and either doesn't post or does the bare minimum when he rolls it. As town, he's on 24/7 flooding the game with questions. The last game we played in together, he even straight up claimed he was scum because he was so bored. Fortunately, we were on a super friendly site and no one was upset.

Raxxel - Town

I may have to reconsider this tomorrow because honestly I threw Raxxel out as a possibility a long time ago and haven't thought about it since. There's been multiple times where Raxxel has stated word-for-word what was in my head, it's really uncanny.

DystopianElixer - Town

His going after a top town read is townie to me. Not having yet gained the necessary Ran meta, his push makes sense. And he hasn't had any guilt/fear about his play all game. He comes off to me as unfiltered and pushing what he thinks is right. In our scum game together, he was much more willing to back down when challenged and also hop on the ongoing wagons.

pythag - Town (Potential Sorcerer)

I do think pythag is town, but I'm not going to fully discount the possibility of sorcerer yet. I don't really see a need to reevaluate it today though.

Osiemandias - Town (Potential Sorcerer)

Spoiler

Their play contains all the stereotypical townie things, but a few of their posts make me uncomfortable and I don't think they should be given the amount of trust everyone is giving them.


This is quite worrying. You do not mass claim in this setup. First, our mission is to keep the identity of the Hunter concealed for as long as possible. Second, there is no reason to. It is an open set up and each power role resolves itself. Scum can't even counter claim. It's mainly this that makes me wary of Osie and the power he wields over the players in this game.

I think it's a town reaction. Self-meta almost always comes from town, and the fact that osie broke his belief about meta when backed into a corner makes me feel even more likely it's coming from a non-wolf.

Kary - Town Lean

Kary is a savage, and his savagery is town. I thought the two points he made about UP and some of his other posts were solid and gave me the impression that he's working things out.

Funnier - Town lean

He hasn't said a scummy thing all game, and his tone has been townie all throughout. I'm not fully discounting him because he hasn't yet participated live and Ex seemed be scumreading him earlier.

ExLight - Scum Lean

I'm giving weight to UPs read, but I still don't like how Ex tried to make it seem like pythag was scumreading them and then overreacted to it. Then never admitted to their misinterpretation.

Wiisp - Scum

See the points I made here. Wiisp looks the worst of anyone surrounding my wagon. Super hedgey and gave me the impression that they knew I was seer. They said a couple of things too that are just kind of weird like the self-vote thing and their interaction with osie seems onesided. Osie keeps trying to bring up inside jokes and whatnot but Wiisp isn't picking up on them and the whole thing just gives me the impression of sandpaper on velcro.

Z25 - Scum

Z's play has been really polished, but he's had a few slips I think. Mainly, their reads have been inconsistent.

He has quite a strong town read on Rax here, which I felt was way too strong to have that early. Yet he completely forgets about his read when Ran asks him for his town reads:

Here he lists me and Ran as his only town reads. And again this changes in his next post:


Here has Ran as just a town lean, me as a scum lean, and Rax back as town. He also explicitly states that he didn't have a read on Rax before (the blue), which confirms that he made up his previous read.


There's some more stuff: contradictory statements and his play from the very start was been adaptive/accommodating (the opposite of UP). Every time someone calls him out on something, he immediately adjusts his play in return. I'm too tired to go any further than this though and I have to get up in a few hours. I may have more tomorrow, but around midday I'll be without phone or computer.

Vote: Z25

I think it was a mistake to assume early on that Lore and Z25 couldn't be scumbuddies. Z didn't actually keep going at the haiku like Lore did and the way Z25 and Wiisp have interacted has high partner viability. Scum often either avoid each other or act unnecessarily aggressive toward each other. When Wiisp joined the game and asked why they were being voted / and voted Z25, Z's reaction was the first time he responded aggressively to someone this game, and it was out of left field. Wiisp responded aggressively in turn.

They also both insisted that they were voting each other out of self-preservation, which is a masterful way to distance your scumbuddy. I was puzzled why Z was so open to this assessment of his vote early in the day, but it makes sense if Lore was is buddy.

Also, Z claimed that he was scum reading Lore independently of his self-preservation, yet when Wiisp joined the game, he wrote this in his aggressive post, which I suspect was a way for him and Wiisp to finally take their votes of each other:If he was willing to vote elsewhere all this time, why not do it before? Why keep his vote on Lore who had no opportunity to defend themselves or claim when it came down to it. Wiisp did nothing at the time that warranted the absolvement of Z's read.


Despite my suspicions of Wiisp as his partner, I'm still going to investigate Ex tonight unless all three of UP, Osie, and Funnier tell me not to. That being said, I would also like everyone to give me 2-3 players they want me to investigate.

Goodnight.

I like this post a lot. I'd say that you should investigate one of Wiisp or Z25 and we lynch the other one, but dunno.

 

[osieorb18]

Thank you, ranmaru . I was hoping that I wouldn't die toNight, and I think regardless of your alignment, you probably made certain of that. To address some of your read on me, you were never my highest townread. As I mentioned, I flickered you in and out of tinfoils. I'll ponder on whether or not this helps or hurts, but in terms of results of the ISO, I decided by about page 11 that in terms of Day 1 equity, you were probably town and that I should go do something else. 424 was the post that did it for me. I was still concerned about the more general commentary towards you and figured I should take note of it but that you still weren't likely in the POE until later. Make of that what you will.

Xivii There's a huge delay between the second and third posts of Z25 that you posted, so a change of reads there could be reasonable. The first and second though, I agree looks suspicious. I like the read on Wisp, though I may not continue to agree with it by EoD/early day 2 if Wisp turns into Old Faithful. (You'll know what I mean if it happens)

I didn't think enough about some elements of the setup when considering a mass-claim. I think the more accurate is that I'm looking for claims from a couple people to help decide what I think there. That said, who knows? We have a night phase to really sort people.

I'm down to follow you. I feel like my natural flail has outstripped my leader potential and a lot of my read potential this game, and I want to see where the Z25 scum idea goes.

Vote: Z25

 

[ranmaru]

I think the best way I can describe your play is calculated and manipulative.

 

[osieorb18]

I think the best way I can describe your play is calculated and manipulative.

Oh, stop it.

 

[osieorb18]

You gotta buy me dinner before you try those lines.

 

[ranmaru]

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: UP

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I was hoping that I wouldn't die toNight, and I think regardless of your alignment, you probably made certain of that.

and not the seer claim huh

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Don't know how to feel about Poyzin's push on Ranmaru. The timing is strange, this is the sort of thing you should vote someone for in the middle of the Day phase and see if it gains any traction, not throw out when you're getting waggoned with 24hrs to deadline.
Just going to mention that I still don't think Poyzin addressed the two points I made against him earlier (#682) although he found time to protest that he was trying to 'solve the game' (#1480). Don't know whether that's alignment indicative, but it doesn't help me evaluate his slot at all.
Frankly, when you end your catchup with a post this lackluster:

Funnier hasn’t really helped and I’m fine with lynching Kary blah blah words.

I don't feel inclined to change my read on you. Why even bother to mention these slots without giving a lynch pool or some direction that you would like town to move in? Is it just a coincidence that you felt the need to comment on the two slots that have said the most against you?