Sorcerer's 11 Open

[Xivii]

Alright so for not getting to post this last night, but my current reads:
Utopian: Leaning town here but went back and forth before their recent content. A post like 455 where they seem to really want the approval from osie isn't great. In any game, saying something like " is it bad I agree with the post" is just a poor statement. You shouldn't need anyone to share your same opinions, or seek that validation. Also explicitly citing that makes it seem like you have nothing but a bad read on the slot in question. By which I mean, his statement here has him sound like he views my content as nothing but bad with little chance to change his mind, and feeling bad about liking content from a player whose content he is against, just comes off as wrong all around. You should always keep an open mind on slots, as sometimes people can make bad posts but still have other posts or great quality. You shouldn't just look down on people because of a few posts you don't agree with. I know that statement was directed at me, but I'm not mad or anything. I just don't that's a mindset to be had towards anyone tbh. Especially when two posts later they immediately go and retract that something for disagreeing with just one line in.

I fully agree with this.

 

[Xivii]

It was smelly to me that UP was looking for Osies validation there. Like he was testing the waters on whether or not it was still OK to scum read Z25.

 

[ranmaru]

hmmmmmmmmm

 

[ranmaru]

Not usually one for vulgarity, but "holy ****" is the only thought going through my head due to the TWELVE FREAKING PAGES posted since yesterday. This is actually insane, I've behind in my classes so I had to use my freetime to do work, but this is going to take the rest of the night to read.

Mind as well start now I guess. Be on YouTube for 15 minutes and I'll recap where I left off when I fell asleep last night.

what is your time zone, and what time is it for you now?

 

[funnier6]

I agree with this.

I was just trying to skim what I missed since I left but what

You agree

With being lynched

If some dude flips woof?

Excuse me what

 

[osieorb18]

It was smelly to me that UP was looking for Osies validation there. Like he was testing the waters on whether or not it was still OK to scum read Z25.

Hey Xivii, can you provide a current read on me, please?

 

[Pythag]

I was just trying to skim what I missed since I left but what

You agree

With being lynched

If some dude flips woof?

Excuse me what

I mean, I know I’m town, but the only way Xiivi’s actions previously made sense to me were if we were the same alignment. I would imagine town to come to the same conclusion, which would be if xivii flips red, I would be probably be next.

I understood and agreed with Ran’ss reasoning.

If xivii were to flip town, that is a different story.

It’s all kinda moot now, since xivii claimed.

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag: Thoughts on Kary and Up now?

 

[ranmaru]

Ex too, Pythag.

 

[Pythag]

Pythag: Thoughts on Kary and Up now?

I’m surprised that he hasn’t interacted with you more.

I also thought he would’ve posted more after the claim.

His view on UP hasn’t evolved, but that’s hard to ask of him, as UP hasn’t posted.

Still not much

 

[osieorb18]

funnier6

Cap'n Catch-Up, what do you think of your question buddy Kary?

Wiisp Also looking for some explanation for your vote.

 

[Z25]

Z25 I asked you this last game but I forgot, have you been scum before?

Only once, It was the new modmin mafia( Or whatever the name of that one with the mods was).

Also a seer claim is interesting. Your osie discussion earlier makes sense in this context now and explains why you had such a strong defense over pythag.

 

[osieorb18]

Osie's Unofficial Votecount (Feb 5th, 6:43 PM PST)

UtopianPoyzin (4) - Pythag, Ranmaru, osieorb18, #HBC | Kary
Exlight (1) - Xivii
#HBC | Kary (1) - Wiisp
Ranmaru (1) - funnier6
Z25 (1) - UtopianPoyzin
Not Voting (4) - ExLight, Raxxel, z25

Z25 Why are you not voting at the moment and where are you considering voting?

 

[Z25]

Osie's Unofficial Votecount (Feb 5th, 6:43 PM PST)

UtopianPoyzin (4) - Pythag, Ranmaru, osieorb18, #HBC | Kary
Exlight (1) - Xivii
#HBC | Kary (1) - Wiisp
Ranmaru (1) - funnier6
Z25 (1) - UtopianPoyzin
Not Voting (4) - ExLight, Raxxel, z25

Z25 Why are you not voting at the moment and where are you considering voting?

I was leaning towards xi but when I caught up and read the seer claim I went back to his content earlier in the day and his claim makes sense given how strong he was speaking out against pythag as if he did know.

Right now I’m not sure. Utopian being gone almost all day and only just showing up when votes shifted to him feels like an unlikely coincidence imo and makes me think they may have been lurking watching things play out.

I might go for that slot but now I want to wait until we hear more now after such a quick turn of events that if true could change the game around viewpoint wise.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

what is your time zone, and what time is it for you now?

EST. 10 PM. I'm beginning by extreme reading now. Before I get too far,

Unvote

We'll see what things are looking like with ~35% of all posts being made in my absence, because there's a new page. I'll first comment on everything that I find interesting, and then I'll finish my partially-made readslist because I fell asleep on my phone last night.

 

[ranmaru]

oh same time zone as me

 

[Pythag]

Ex too, Pythag.

lol

I'm actually fine with moving my vote to Xivii since he started pocketing Py as soon as he suggesting putting Xivii in the chopping block if he flipped town

I've been thinking about this quote especially since the claim.

Xivii pre-claim pushed this as a scumslip.

Seems pretty natural that the sorcerer would put his life on the line to save a wolf. Not tinfoily at all. Your jumping to the conclusion that he's town doesn't fit.

When observing xivii's actions before the claim, I felt his actions only line up if we're the same alignment.
osie disagrees, but I'm just saying where my logic took me.

Ex on the contrast, very quickly decided that we were two different alignments.
It's not impossible, as osie said, but still, this interaction stands out to me.

I already stated earlier that I was liking Funnier's content more than Ex's. This might actually push me into placing Ex in a scum lean.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Vote: Pythag

Unvote; Vote: Pythag

I find the instantaneous agreement to vote pretty strange. Why go for simultaneous posts? Sure you agree with each other, but Ran didn't vote until Osie did, even when Ran said they were considering it. Could Ran be trying to blend in with osie because they didn't feel comfortable voting Pythag until somebody else did? That's what I'm thinking as of now, but we'll see.

 

[osieorb18]

Ex on the contrast, very quickly decided that we were two different alignments.
It's not impossible, as osie said, but still, this interaction stands out to me.

I already stated earlier that I was liking Funnier's content more than Ex's. This might actually push me into placing Ex in a scum lean.

I was going to make some argument about Ex being a newbie but I kinda don't want to do so since more than 20 games is enough to know better. Still, it does fit into them flailing around a lot, and I still kinda feel like it's a bit mean-spirited to lynch Ex Day 1.

 

[Pythag]

I was going to make some argument about Ex being a newbie but I kinda don't want to do so since more than 20 games is enough to know better. Still, it does fit into them flailing around a lot, and I still kinda feel like it's a bit mean-spirited to lynch Ex Day 1.

I'm interested in what Funnier has to say about it, since he knows him a little better.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

This makes no sense and I have no idea how to read this. How did anybody else interpret this post?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Osie this is why you are my strongest town read.

Yeah Ran, you do seem to like buddying others. I had a sneaking suspicion earlier, but you seem to be basically echoing Osie by preaching to the choir. This post is bad in my opinion because it shows that you are talking up Osie. Especially coming off of the simultaneous vote. It appears to me that you are taking the backseat of Osie's reads, as they seem to be hunting far more than you, with you just affirming her position. If, in the case, Osie is on the wrong track, this would also allow for scum!Ran to hop out and let Osie take the fall. But that's a stretch theory because I also like Osie's reads. I just don't like what I view to be your +1'ing. It's fine to agree with others, but it looks like you are trying to follow Osie rather than solve the game for yourself.

 

[funnier6]

Deadline is Feb 6th @ 5:00 PM PST.

Yeah I'm gonna be at work for this unfortunately

CWAC, sheeping Z25, and using a meta introduction to justify any possible scummy actions

Tbf you kind of are

Youre supplying the proper context to consider when reading your actions so in a way

Sure,

478 and 479

are posts that I feel tryS to hard to try and sell the slot as a townie or a player with bad luck. Yes Ex is new but both these posts seem out of place and trying to set up a narrative and picture of them that we should trust. Which while past games can work as good indicators of a slots behavior should be used as true evidence. Anyone can switch up play styles between games if they want too, and at the end of the day not every person will act differently regardless of alignment.

481

The use of all caps and again trying to use past games as hard evidence of their statements being true sounds like WIFOM. Minus the fact that there isn’t a wagon forming on them which is when you would normally see a townie act defensive like this to protect themselves and occasionally scum. Although personally I’ve seen it as a bad townie play more then a scum play in games. That doesn’t matter when it could go either way here.

526

They talk about to Pythag how they had the idea of d1 voting being essentially a Guess first and how that I was parroting this.

Except I’m pretty sure I’m not the only other person in this thread with that idea( but I’d have to re read). It’s not like it’s a big revelation either. If you’ve played mafia this is common knowledge, so using it to take a bit of a jab at me comes off as a weaker point imo.

As for the second part of that. I really don’t see how Pythag was making them look bad there. I had no change in option over either of them based on that interaction and it seems the thread thought similarity. This again gives off a sort of victim act from them which I don’t like. If your town it only makes you look bad and isn’t a strong play imo.

Granted I can definitely see them being upset by pythag’s post which comes off a little harsh. Ex’s reaction to it still isn’t too great though, but I could see it as frustrated town. I don’t agree with them going to vote afterwards for pythag.

Pythag was applying a lot of pressure on them so I get where ex could be coming from, but it seems to be a strong and bad reaction to pressure.

I wouldn’t say they are one hundred percent scum, but this interaction has me leaning them more as scum, but it could be a very upset townie and then I would look at pythag more based on the flip. I’ve seen this go both ways and been in similar situations myself when I got really heated, but I’m leaning towards potential scum reacting poorly to a little pressure.

I’ve gotta head out for a bit but if I can tonight I’ll post more details on other reads later tonight

I know its dumb but if you could turn off the red text that would be great

It's really super hard for me to read this

 

[Pythag]

I find the instantaneous agreement to vote pretty strange. Why go for simultaneous posts? Sure you agree with each other, but Ran didn't vote until Osie did, even when Ran said they were considering it. Could Ran be trying to blend in with osie because they didn't feel comfortable voting Pythag until somebody else did? That's what I'm thinking as of now, but we'll see.

Hard disagree.

I don't think Ran needed impetus to vote for me. He's voted for plenty of people for plenty of reasons all by himself. Even if he did, Ex was already on me. it appeared to me to be a matter of, they were both in the thread at the same time, and as ran and osie were thinking out loud, they made the decision. Which is why in a few posts Ran said something like 'this is why you're my #1 townread.'

I think I'd believe osie is the trouble maker before Ran.

 

[ExLight]

I find the instantaneous agreement to vote pretty strange. Why go for simultaneous posts? Sure you agree with each other, but Ran didn't vote until Osie did, even when Ran said they were considering it. Could Ran be trying to blend in with osie because they didn't feel comfortable voting Pythag until somebody else did? That's what I'm thinking as of now, but we'll see.

Yea, Ran seem to be flipflopping quite a bit
I found even stranger when he jumped in the Xivii wagon right after I moved there to tie them after saying that I wanted the votes to be split

 

[ExLight]

after saying that I wanted the votes to be split

*after I said I wanted the votes to be split

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Pythag is sorcerer and I'd rather go for a wolf. His complete reversal of his Z read here is highly indicative that Z is scum (bussing as he's about to be lynched).

Not necessary though, cause we already know who sorcerer is. This is an informationless lynch.

Does this post imply that we know for certain that Pythag is sorcerer? This is far too hasty of a claim, and this quote is exactly what I believe on the matter:

Once someone is dead, then we know something, else its just speculation

 

[ranmaru]

I openly buddy my strongest town reads. Buddying is a tool, not a scum tell.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

But that's WINE. WE. DON'T. KNOW. THAT. PYTHAG. IS. THE. SORCERER.

I share this sentiment, but this reminds me that you have been mentioning WIFOM plenty of times and I wanted to get your opinion: is it useful to consider WIFOM on D1?

 

[Pythag]

I just realized UP is doing this stream of consciousness style. I'll probably hold off on responding until he is caught up.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Ranmaru's content where I'm at is particularly lackluster. With that being said, I will concede that I am primarily focusing on Ranmaru's posts because I do think there is merit worth investigating, based on how I've stated I feel about this slot. Here is my current location and all of the Ran posts:

Look at the role PM, they are told the names of their wolve allies.

I'm confused what you want to know.

I'm not arguing to vote you or ZZ5 right now.

Zen, if Pythag is sorcerer to you, why were you questioning Osie with her questioning to ZZ5 with reference to his Ex read?

Guy on bottom left: "Yeah I dunno man..."

Elaborate more on this. Did you think Osie was the sorcerer in this case? If not, why ask her those questions at all at that point? #670

Xiivi: What's your read on Kary?

Doesn't his entrance seem underwhelming to you?

Xivii and Osie are openly having a discussion with each other about Pythag and etc, and Ranmaru just seems to be interjecting questions without really commenting on any of the happenings. I agree that this is all taking place at 3 AM, but at that point it would be more useful to sleep than to produce artificial content. Unless, of course, the artificial content was necessary to make themselves known in the town to be consistently contributing. Maybe they'll do something townie during the day, but I'm really not seeing it. Just a lot of questions.

I see the merit behind asking the questions of course, but the problem is that they are asking questions and not following up on the importance of the answers, and/or providing additional insight between the questions. I personally aim to have a mix of content types, but that does not seem to be the case for Ranmaru at this time.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I just realized UP is doing this stream of consciousness style. I'll probably hold off on responding until he is caught up.

I read this in the "more posts" bit at the bottom of the page. I'm currently on Page 26. Thank you for understanding that I won't be able to get to inquiries (as well as my final polished reads post-today) until I'm back on track.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Honey, 99% of the time, I either powerwolf or bus. Trying to do both is FPS to an extreme and usually gets people caught. It's not worth it. It's funny that you suggest that I'd try that here but I don't think you're really reading my posts if you are trying to suggest that I planned out some long elaborate scheme to go from a scumread to a townread on a person with whom I've never played. This is a 2-wolf setup. A 2-wolf setup with a town-sided set of roles.

It's a cute idea but you're just howling up the wrong tree.

despised self meta
uses self meta as defense

I picked up on this too. For the board: do you think that Osie is trying to avoid scrutiny or does this post sound like a reasonable response to Xivii? I feel like its the latter due to the context, but I won't lie that I tossed the possibility of the former around in my head for a bit.

 

[ranmaru]

I have given analysis and reads along side my questions, which has me wondering why you have had me at null for so long. Can you explain that?

Of course now my reads list will need to be updated a third time, but I have been pretty open. Y'all will have them later today. Also, Pythag I proposed as a compromise to Osie before all that.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Kary is typically pretty terse, although i do see him interact with you, and I haven't seen that as much this game.
Nothing about it threw me.

Kary is always terse, regardless of alignment. I don't know how this shows that Kary is town in your book besides the fact that they pushed for my lynch.

Kary and Xivii read really similarly, they ask good questions that make me think, and shows me their thinking.
Xivii however is much more on the shady side than Kary, maybe that's because of activity, but especially this stuff at the end has been really bizarre.

What types of feelings are you getting towards Xivii that make you think they are more shady than Kary? Maybe you're a couple more dimensions in than I am, but I personally feel that Kary is objectively shadier than Xivii.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Pythag is just the right lynch.

Surprisingly this post hurts a push for a Pythag lynch far more than it helps one.

 

[ranmaru]

The rest of the interactions that are non-scumhunting related is socialization on the side. Such as the jokes and Frozen discussion.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I'm not
I was just annoyed that outta nowhere he had a scumread on me that he never hinted before that was mostly parroting
and never tried to interact with me to solidify/elaborate his views


honestly your activity seems better than 70% of the people I've ever played with
this message seems to be somewhat AtE
like, eh, you can have some initiative for a few minutes in your free time to catch up and make one or two larger posts


this is quite the AtE too

funnier6 does Wiisp also give you Sunfan vibes?


this is at the same time comforting and a backhanded slap :bulbacute:


Why?


where did this come from :surppika:


How did you come to this conclusion and why wouldn't we want to lynch the sorcerer if they undermine 1/3 of the cop's result while being able to out him


Informationless? He interacted with a lot of people, we might be able to find the whole scumteam D1 if we hit a sorcerer today, lol
The role flips upon death, right? Am I going crazy or something?


is this a scumfession or something


was it his RVS vote? or did he provide an excuse to seriously vote funnier?


Why are UP and Rax so high?

ExLight is my top townread surprisingly. I feel like they are being far more open with their thoughts and don't have anything to hide, whereas any other player could reasonably be a really good WW in my book.

 

[osieorb18]

but it looks like you are trying to follow Osie rather than solve the game for yourself.

He did take some persuading to get off of certain votes.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

For anyone who thinks UtopianPoyzin is trying to "solve the game" I would like to see which posts you would consider evidence for that.

I'm not usually the one to get offended, but I mean... I though I was doing a pretty good job at solving the game. Of course, your opinion is subjective, but I do appreciate the answers I got to my plethora of questions, especially early on. I still think my line of reasoning on Z25 on the first 24 hours was pretty solid for how early it was, but I will admit that I probably have not been as assertive as I should have been today and yesterday, but that also stems from other commitments away from the screen. Surprised you think this way to be honest...