Sorcerer's 11 Open

[osieorb18]

osieorb18 gimme three town reads and two scum reads

Here's a full readlist:

Townread

UtopianPoyzin is one of the top posters. They clearly seem to be hunting. Lots of talks of hunting methods and good responses all of which looks pure.

Raxxel has a ton of unprompted moments of townie focus. I like them a lot.

Townlean

Xivii has had some small moments of concern now and then, but I like them overall. They're active and seem to be trying to work together with people to solve.

Ranmaru is someone who I disagree with on reads and style often but I think they look to be solve-oriented in their mindset. Despite the differences in style, I LIKE their style a lot. I think given how hard the disagreements are here, I can't quite give them a full townread, but I can come close.

Null

Z25 looked quite scummy to me at first in their push on me, but their backdown felt to me more like a tunneled townie realizing that it didn't hold water than a scum-player who wanted to look good. I also feel like the only teams that really work well with Z25 this game are teams that include a member of my townblock, and that's not a good sign. Last but not least, their #524 response to being one of the top candidates drips townie frustration instead of scummy frustration. His push on Lore feels decent to me, too.

Scumlean

ExLight sets themself up to do nothing... ExLight and funnier knowing each other leads to some social shenanigans well into the phase. I could see ExLight being on a team with either Funnier or Lore, though I imagine a lot of their interactions with the former are coloured by them knowing each other. Out of the two of them, I'd generally rather lynch Funnier.

Mamboo-slot did nothing throughout the game, and it became clear that they intended to troll. They felt more like newb!scum than newb!town, but I kinda feel like their replacement (#HBC | Kary) should get a chance because their predecessor was wet behind the ears one way or another.

Light Scumread

Pythag is mostly down here for my interpretation of the stark contrast between how they address UtopianPoyzin and their declared "null-scum" read. On Page 10 in particular, it really feels that they are addressing someone who they think is town, which doesn't mesh well for me. Pythag is the most interesting out of my three scumreads for me because they're doing a lot that feels less scummy on bare content than either of Funnier or Lore-slot.

Funnier has been open-lurking A LOT. They also had a certain post in which they pretty much handed us a scumtell, by making clear that they didn't intend to be active and that they were more active in another game. They explicitly have said that they aren't trying and they don't intend to try. I wouldn't mind seeing a lynch here.

Strong Scumread

Lore-slot came in with a bang and an excuse for not being active. They pushed me for an easy LHF reason and likely didn't want to look bad for backing off when I showed that I could post content within the restriction. They threw a tantrum in the thread when people weren't biting on an Osie mislynch, then ragequit.

 

[osieorb18]

Osie, I get the feeling that we are going to disagree with reads in general. I find your defense townie, but I don't agree with it. If you want to sell me on a better option, I don't think you'll gain any ground if you give me Lore and Mamboo. I am interested in your thoughts on Rax, Pythag, and any other null I have.

See previous post.

Some moments from Utopian, ExLight, and Pythag have been nagging at me and I want to ISO them once more at some point, but I think I'm unlikely to bother on Day 1; Funnier and Lore-slot are both better lynches.

 

[osieorb18]

Towncore Xivii and osieorb18 which wagon are we going with? I really think I need to reconsider my vote on Z25 but I really liked it earlier so I'm sure there's still something there. There recent posts have apparently been better though but they were really scummy early game. Lore on the other hand would be a pretty obvious alternative if we believe Z25, and the case there is pretty strong to. I need to re-ISO Z25 I think.

I'm keeping my vote where it is unless I see reason to believe that one of my lighter scumreads is a better lynch.

 

[osieorb18]

Can we ask setup related questions here or that has a private chat with the host?


hi hi hi, do you have any reason why would we want to keep an inactive

while we don't get a sub Lore's slot will just get modkilled or stay inactive
so it will only hurt town, so I'm fine with there being lynched first
my home forum has a massive problem with inactivity, and the inactive members usually are left by scum and just end up creating a virtually faster -Lo, which is a PAIN

once we had a virtual -Lo by D2 there due to inactivity which was a fookin pain since we had to lynch scum correctly like three times in a row
I know it's not the case here since most people are active but that's a nice story and I like stories and it illustrates the extreme version of my point which kinda traumatized a lot because I subbed in that game and it was STRESSFUL

and it would be nice to help the host which is something I always stand by

we should try to find someone to fill in, but if we don't in time then I don't see what's the vantage of just letting a potential power role there without doing a thing; it had a leading wagon on it for a while and it might be scum so we'll get info from it anyway


why not both
I'll try to pick some posts that came off as aggressive to me

I really don't like this post and I'll need some time to work out how best to explain why. I think I'll table that until tomorrow morning, unless I come up with something soon.

 

[Raxxel]

Okay. I've compiled a list of notes over a majority of the pages. I'm going to put them behind a spoiler.

Spoiler: Notes,

Ranmaru:
- First post (#113) is a wordless vote. It's beginning of the game, but still the lack of conversation and them opting to vote without prompting further discussion in contrast with everyone else is notable.
- Notable effort to help newcomer Mamboo find their way in their first mafia game (#119). Given my experience with guiding hands when I was newer, this is less town than it may seem. Lore similarly helped me in my first game only for them to be scum.
- Claims that their effort to help Mamboo is non-alignment indicative (#125). Ultimately, rather town. Being unafraid to state that their post held no implications of being town means they feel confident in their town status as is.
- Ranmaru questions some of osie's posts (#147). Good questions that I felt similarly about, especially the questioning of TMI and Mamb=town. Town vibes.
- Ran votes for Osie (#173). With context, this reasoning is pretty solid and agreeable save for his first point about the 127 post which he later rectifies with an unvote (#179). Town vibes, one of the first real votes of the game.

Utopian:
- Their first callout is towards Xivii (#117). They believe Xivii's humor is forced. While I believe UP's callout amounts to little, I see it as town ultimately as UP is trying to start some sort of scum analysis.
- UP makes another prod, this time at Ranmaru (#120). They challenge their town legitimacy. Ultimately, this is some rather weak pressure. Null-scum feel from this.
- UP follows up on this by soft pedaling a little (#123). They claim that they were just keeping Ranmaru in check so as not to let them get comfy with Mamboo to avoid being scumread. Obviously, them backing away on pressure doesn't give me confidence in their town status.
- Asks osie about how they feel about the game thus far (#141). Very safe and general question. Null to null scum vibes.
- UP responds to Xivii (#149). This post refutes some of Xivii's points without being too defensive. I especially like that they repeated my sentiment towards the first post Xivii cited. Town vibes.
- UP responds to osie's mamboo town quip (#151). Good reasoning behind their town read on Mamboo. Town vibes.
- UP responds to Z's scum analysis (#188). I basically agree with all of this. Plus the point about Osie's vote being the first to be based on evidence is good. Town vibes.
- UP continues questioning Z's focus on format rather than content (#198). I have little to say here, it's good questioning that keeps discussion going, especially on the first rather consecutive and consistently scummy set of posts. Town vibes.
- UP asks Mamboo a set of questions (#200). Really null on this one, very safe post.
- UP responds to Z and the question callout (#210). Good pressure on Z regarding his stance on the Osie Xivii callout and the haikus. Response to the question callout is lacking though. Mamboo barely participated, there was no way they could answer two of these questions with their lack of experience. therefor they do little even in the way of RQS. Null.

Osie:
- First callout post goes towards Utopian (#127). Here, Osie definitely follows a similar thought process as me, and calls out how weak this pressure is. Definitely town vibes.
- Osie takes issue with Xivii's UP callout as well as responding to UP's question (#145). Their reasoning doesn't quite line up with mine though. Their answer comes as expected. Null vibes.
- Osie responds to Ran's questioning and expands on their scum lean towards Xivii (#155). Little to say on this honestly. I've used the pace control reasoning behind scum reads as both a town and scum player in the past. It's kind of an easy accusation to throw out. Null to null-scum vibes.
- Osie basically drops a content bomb (#288). Fantastic post, only complaint is that it's a pain in the ass manually looking for those post stamps that are cited. Towniest post in the game.


Funnier:
- I initially hated this entrance (#136). I'm still not a big fan of it, but I can see that while there is a declaration of inactivity, it's mostly in jest which is helped by them starting by voting for their friend. Null.
- Funnier responds to UP's question about him being town (#186). I wasn't even going to include this but at this point funnier has had one note. Anyway this post is useless. Scum vibes.
- Funnier responds to Pythag (#274). I like this post, I like that Funnier is actually expanding upon his vote for Ex. A random Lore town read, which, this early, is fair. Null town.
- Funnier gives thoughts on Osie (#329). I have mixed feelings. I think that his reaction to Osie's read feels town, doesn't feel defensive and more just confused. However, this implication that he can't be read because we don't know him yet is silly. Meta is indeed a huge part of mafia, but it's still absolutely fair to judge one based on their standalone actions. Null scum.

Xivii:
- This one hits quite hard (#143). Xivii goes in on Utopian both for their callout of the joke vote and their refusal to address Ranmaru. I have mixed feelings on this post. I feel their response to the joke vote callout is irrational and overly defensive. However, their point about Utopian attacking Ran is great and gives me town vibes with how they willing redirected UP's accusation to themselves. Their point about aggression is a mixed bag for me, because ultimately UP is not being that aggressive, although I feel that is to UP's detriment in my eyes in terms of their town status. What bothers me especially is that Xivii cites a post from UP that really doesn't even have to do with the game, as it's speaking to someone outside of it. Saying null doesn't really help summarize my thoughts on this post, because it is a big one. The aggression and joke callouts give off null scum vibes to me, but the Ranmaru callout-related part is very town to me.
- Xivii lays out their current scum reads (#163). I found Lore and Z25 to be especially interesting choices given they hadn't posted yet. Xivii later justifies this with process of elimination later (#191). Null town vibes.
- Xivii without prompt defends Osie (#176). Gives context to Osie's actions. Definitely a town move, scum would just let Osie get tunneled, unless Osie and Xivii are scum mates. Even still the reasoning is very solid.
- Xivii defends Osie further (#222). Null town. I agree mostly with these points, only thing is that Ranmaru absolutely needed clarification for those said two points.
- Xivii votes Mamboo (#225). Yeah. It's a safe vote but yeah. Null town.
- Xivii switches up their vote to Z (#262). Makes sense since Mamboo is getting replaced and Z is really wobbly right now. Also some unprompted seer reads. And a sorcerer read on Pythag. Just generally proactive, town behavior. Null town.

Z25:
- Z comes into the game answering Lore's scum read question (#187). Z throws out that he does not like Osie's haiku format, and finds it to be a means of posting as little as possible. I don't agree with this reasoning at all, and while I see it as still some early game prodding, it's still the biggest stretch thus far in this game. Null scum vibes.
- Z responds to UP (#192). While it's not too defensive and overall does make his previous callout smaller and less brash, his reasoning still falls short with his focus on the haikus. Really weak contribution, ultimately gives scum vibes.
- Z kinda goes off the rails a bit at (#202). I wouldn't say they're doubling down on a scum read, but they are doubling down on this stance towards Osie's haikus. The finger pointing towards UP's vote really doesn't help. A bit overly defensive. I will say however, to be this stubborn towards this view point and not immediately cave tells me either Z is legitimately town and is confident enough in his town status that he will stand behind what he has said, or he's scum and has decided that backpedaling now would just make things worse. Null scum.
- Z calls out UP's questions (#203). This... is kinda how I feel about the post. Two of these questions are definitely not something Mamboo could answer as an absolute newcomer. Question 3 is the only really plausible one. Null town.
- Z expands on his reasoning in response to Xivii's defense of Osie (#218). I can now kind of see what he was saying here. Osie's initial callout of Xivii did lead to some confusion, so it is true that the format sometimes struggles in giving full context to observations or allegations. This is somewhat inconsistent to what he was saying before however. Null.
- Z continues his conversation with UP (#225). His point about answering questions would be more fair if he wasn't firing back so aggressively to make his point. Still, mostly reasonable post. Null.
- Z applauds Osie (#298). Not immediately hopping aboard the Lore scum wagon definitely gives off town vibes to me. Null town.

Lore:
- I'm kinda going to sum up their posts instead of going case by case because their content is focused on one thing, aside from a callout on me speaking to Mamboo, which felt like a little bit of a stretch. Definitely was the scummiest player to me by a long shot, basically was Z's content but worse given their utter refusal to see past the format of Osie's posts.

Pythag:
- FINALLY MY MAN COMES IN HOT, ONLY PLAYER BESIDES Z TO HAVE BEEN IN ALL THREE GAMES SO FAR WITH ME (UP HOSTED JUNGLE MAFIA BUT DIDN'T PLAY IN IT) (#258). Does some poetry of his own, with an interesting take going against the current popular opinion against Z. Unfortunately, this post offers not a whole lot of actual reasoning behind the current reads. It is still early game though. Null.
- Pythag pressures Funnier (#263). Definitely a needed bit of attention towards a player that's not been under enough scrutiny. Null town.

ExLight:
- All I'm going to say is that I hate #383 with a burning passion completely unrelated to scumhunting. Damn you. Anyway null town.

So, reads on everyone...

First is that Osie is definitely the most town to me. Kept their composure through all accusations, and has been a consistent contributor to scum analysis.

Pythag is null to me right now. I do agree with some of his moves. I think UP has been a bit scattered. That said, other reads I feel give scummier players way too much benefit of the doubt.

Ranmaru is town/null town. I don't think it's out of the question that he could be scum, but he's been good at asking questions, especially towards the more popularly town players.

Xivii is town. Though they started kind of rough in my opinion, they've been consistent and have made some very significant posts this game.

UP is null town. They've had posts that are questionable, like the Mamboo questions, but they've also been great in noticing behavior and pushing for more discussion. I especially have enjoyed their prompts towards me to speak on others. They COULD be scum, but I feel safe about this slot.

ExLight is null. They appear much later in this thread and I've been at this for hours, so I apologize for not having much to say on them right now. I will revisit this slot,

I can't give any impressions on Mamboo's slot. It's been as good as inactive. Null I guess.

Funnier is null to me right now. I like some of their posts, but they've also made some questionable points, I especially did not enjoy their start, nor the

Z is null scum to me right now. Rather inconsistent with his reasoning to dislike the Osie haikus, and ultimately hasn't contributed much beyond refuting others. He isn't irredeemable by any measure but he needs to do more in the way of scum analysis to convince me that he isn't the pick for today.

Lore was my scummiest pick. I'm not entirely sure how to judge this slot now though. Null scum???

 

[ranmaru]

Rax, that is actually a good analysis. I had concerns with you not voting, and not having your reads list up yet, but I feel much better about you. I'm still working on my reads list, I just wanted to point that out.

 

[Raxxel]

I somehow forgot to finish what I was typing for Funnier. I was gonna say "nor the point about making reads about someone you don't know."

 

[osieorb18]

I somehow forgot to finish what I was typing for Funnier. I was gonna say "nor the point about making reads about someone you don't know."

I don't have enough of a certainty here to feel like I'm doing the same level of solve as in a few of my other games where I all-but caught the scum team on Day 1, or one by one through Day X, where X is the number of scum members, but I do feel comfortable with a 3 person POE for Day 1 so I guess I'm just going to be that arrogant.

 

[ranmaru]

TOWN [OSIE RAX UP XIIVI LORE | EX Funnier Kary | Pythag ZZ5] SCUM

Osie. I think she's been a strong proponent of the Lore wagon, and has discussed it with me in depth, that I can tell she's genuine about it, and believe in it. I think also if ZZ5 is scum, that she wouldn't be defending him so hard at 4 votes. I think she's been active enough, and even while in Haiku format, she was scumhunting and communicating with town through that.

Raxxel. Raxxel was a person I was considering as possible scum, due to them not really voting actively during the day, mostly asking questions, and being reactive. Yet their #565 is quite an effort, that I think is genuine and has good analysis that I think would be difficult for scum to fake.

UP. He's active, and reasonable in some points. No change on my read on him, nor do I have the feeling I would need to re-read him at this point in time.

Xiivi. Xiivi falls down slightly, due to having less of an impact as the day went by. He was originally on ZZ5, but I was talking more about ZZ5 than he was, which I found concerning. I think his town read of Rax (#294) is a bit weak to give out, since I felt the conclusion was an obvious one any other person could come to. So slight town now, but I still am weighing his good content, which I expect might come soon, and I hope, because he is the only one I know that agrees with my philosophy on hunting scum. Which is why I am also confused as to why he hasn't joined in the conversation between myself and Osie, since he understands my scumhunting methods and we have hydrad many times, and through combined efforts, nailed scum. I also noted he hasn't asked myself any questions to sort me, and is why I asked him to give an opinion of my own slot, to see what he was thinking, and to keep him accountable.

--

Lore remains the same to me. His play was anti-town, and against the interests of progressing town. I don't believe he believed he'd be able to push Osie through policy.

--

Ex is null, but still has been good about trying to engage in an environment they are not used to. That's all I can say for them, need more.

Funnier I got a town town vibe, but I'm putting them at null because they been procrastinating, and I have no idea where they want to go.

Mamboo was null, because I never thought any of his actions could go either way, since he was the reason for the re-roll. Kary is a good player, and one I expect to have good analysis, if town. Need more content from them.

--

Pythag I still find has a low presence, and has had weak reads. Has had a mini analysis on the Lore wagon, and an interaction with Ex, but my read hasn't really improved on them, yet it's weaker than ZZ5.

My reasoning on ZZ5 still stands. I think his vote on Lore was very poor, no rhyme intended. ZZ5's #433 reasoning is weak, and justifies that with it being good flip information. #467 Shows why the information isn't beneficial to finding scum.

TOWN [OSIE RAX UP XIIVI LORE | EX Funnier Kary | Pythag ZZ5] SCUM

 

[ranmaru]

Right now, the game state seems hard to actually pin scum intent right now, so I think our best bet is to either lynch ZZ5 / Pythag or compromise in our null list. I think we should be looking at who isn't contributing stances and / or votes enough, because they aren't making themselves easy to sort for the town. This means that this is becoming a game where town simply town hunts and locks out scum, since it seems scum isn't participating as much.

 

[ranmaru]

Right now we have two days to deadline, so we should be considering our options we are willing to switch to. So I will propose the bottom four. These four I am fine with compromising between, barring any further content from my nulls:

[ZZ5, Pythag, EX, Funnier]

 

[ranmaru]

Rax: I used a wordless vote because I like to get reactions from newer players, I find it better than reasoning. If I put a joke, it is less of a reason to be concerned about it. You have a point it doesn't progress discussion, yet I progress discussion either way after that anyway.

On the advice towards Mamboo, I give it to anyone because I don't have the convenience of chatting privately, and this is the only way I can help town grow for those that really need it, even if it gets someone to think I'm trying to manipulate y'all. Better I do so for the long run of the game rather than not saying so at all to be read better. Now, my philosophy is that, scum will support their own scummates in scumchat, and I feel that town should do their best to openly support each other in a similar fashion. Examples of that are stopping fights between two town reads and direct them in a more productive direction, or telling a town read to stop doing an action which is less efficient in finding scum. (Questions such as 'are you town?' are not beneficial or efficient and a waste of time) Now, this isn't a newbie game, so you haven't seen me give a whole guide, which I have written up, and of which, I cut part of and gave to Mamboo. I think it is faulty to think that town would not help another in improving and being in general a better player, regardless of alignment.

 

[osieorb18]

Right now we have two days to deadline, so we should be considering our options we are willing to switch to. So I will propose the bottom four. These four I am fine with compromising between, barring any further content from my nulls:

[ZZ5, Pythag, EX, Funnier]

I am very unlikely to vote for Z25 at this juncture. I'd consider Pythag or Funnier as compromise CFDs but I'd always prefer Lore.

 

[ranmaru]

Alright. I also want to note, that I want to work more with you and Rax this game. Please look at my reads and feel free to ask any questions.

 

[osieorb18]

Alright. I also want to note, that I want to work more with you and Rax this game. Please look at my reads and feel free to ask any questions.

Do you stand by what UtopianPoyzin said in the post that Z25 quoted? As much as I like a lot of Poyzin's posts, this is just wrong on a basic level:

I fundamentally disagree with you here, but that's alright. Info-lynches of maybe-towns should rarely be our goal.

This is saying that Day 1, the day when as town we have the least information, we shouldn't lynch anyone on whom we aren't absolutely certain.

In contrast, I've gone back to look at Z25's posts time and time again, and the more I look at it, the more the needle sways towards town for me.

 

[osieorb18]

ranmaru You probably know as well as I do that on average any Day 1 lynch is the closest to a random lynch of any of them. So why feel that Z25 reinforcing that point in disagreeing with Poyzin's nonsense is somehow scummy?

 

[ranmaru]

I do, I see it as UP saying that, we shouldn't have that be our first priority, but only if we have no other option. Our other options being, our top scumpicks, than scummy inactives, then nulls, before considering town flip for information, because it's important to keep our town reads alive.

 

[ranmaru]

I think because when defaulting to that, it shows he isn't trying as hard enough to get something slightly better, which doesn't help town. Without my concerns, he'd simply be a null that I'd be lynching in my bottom four because I don't see any proactive content from him either way.

 

[ranmaru]

Actually, how would you feel about moving to Funnier now? I think that would be a productive wagon as well.

 

[osieorb18]

I do, I see it as UP saying that, we shouldn't have that be our first priority, but only if we have no other option. Our other options being, our top scumpicks, than scummy inactives, then nulls, before considering town flip for information, because it's important to keep our town reads alive.

But Lore is not a townread. The closest people have to reasons to townread are failing to get off of a mislynch and fallacious comparison to Z25.

 

[ranmaru]

I originally thought he was referring to Xiivi when talking about flip connections, but re-reading, I think he may have meant you, which makes more sense. (Since he mentions haiku) Overall, I still don't think it's a good vote, and either way, without my concerns, he isn't being productive. Can you talk about that, and why you find his push on Lore decent?

 

[osieorb18]

Actually, how would you feel about moving to Funnier now? I think that would be a productive wagon as well.

I'm not moving there with 63 hours to EoD. Maybe at some point between 48 and 24 hours to EoD, unless something changes.

 

[osieorb18]

I originally thought he was referring to Xiivi when talking about flip connections, but re-reading, I think he may have meant you, which makes more sense. (Since he mentions haiku) Overall, I still don't think it's a good vote, and either way, without my concerns, he isn't being productive. Can you talk about that, and why you find his push on Lore decent?

A few things. Firstly, I think Z25 believes their scumread on Lore. Z25's backdown on me felt kinda legitimate since they seemed to realize that the argument that there wasn't enough content didn't make sense, and not in a "Oh no, I'm caught with my skirt around my ankles as scum" way. Flipping around to Lore as someone who isn't jumping off something that Z25 just realized is false is a logical course of action.

 

[osieorb18]

I originally thought he was referring to Xiivi when talking about flip connections, but re-reading, I think he may have meant you, which makes more sense. (Since he mentions haiku) Overall, I still don't think it's a good vote, and either way, without my concerns, he isn't being productive. Can you talk about that, and why you find his push on Lore decent?

Also, you made this point earlier:

ZZ5 is a better candidate than Lore because he's voting with interest in saving his own tail rather than progress the game for town. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

I don't think this is entirely fair. Both alignments self-preserve. Z25 has contributed much more in the way of potential hunting that Lore has if you actually read Z's posts. Lore spent most of the game whining. Z thought about me in a standard town-style concern, just with too much focus on quantity over quality. Even while considering that, they also looked at UP and Xi. The way they talk to UP looks like they are trying to sort UP, even if at times on the surface, they are rather dismissive. They at least imply trying to read Rax and funnier as well. And enough of this is subtle to a degree that it's not likely to be faked.

 

[osieorb18]

And, yes, I'm saying that my original read on Z25 was surface-level. Looking closer at tone and subtleties, I'm liking the slot a hell of a lot more.

 

[osieorb18]

My POE at this time is:

Lore-slot >>>>>>> funnier >> Pythag > ExLight >>> Mamboo-slot

I'm very unlikely to be down with a lynch outside of this POE today, and I'd highly prefer to lynch Lore-slot and not to lynch Mamboo-slot.

 

[osieorb18]

Pythag, funnier, and ExLight all have potential behavioural slips.

 

[ranmaru]

I will re-read later to see if it seems like he is sorting, but that only matters if he follows up and gives conclusions. I am also interested in behavioral slips, and if it has scum intent / motivation.

 

[ranmaru]

Going to sleep now, but it was a good chat.

 

[Xivii]

osieorb18 why were you so interested in Z25s thoughts on Ex?

 

[Xivii]

I'll have a case on Z25 later, going over some points that were missed. I haven't eaten in 3 days and I'm too out of it to do much right now.

 

[Raxxel]

Rax: I used a wordless vote because I like to get reactions from newer players, I find it better than reasoning. If I put a joke, it is less of a reason to be concerned about it. You have a point it doesn't progress discussion, yet I progress discussion either way after that anyway.

On the advice towards Mamboo, I give it to anyone because I don't have the convenience of chatting privately, and this is the only way I can help town grow for those that really need it, even if it gets someone to think I'm trying to manipulate y'all. Better I do so for the long run of the game rather than not saying so at all to be read better. Now, my philosophy is that, scum will support their own scummates in scumchat, and I feel that town should do their best to openly support each other in a similar fashion. Examples of that are stopping fights between two town reads and direct them in a more productive direction, or telling a town read to stop doing an action which is less efficient in finding scum. (Questions such as 'are you town?' are not beneficial or efficient and a waste of time) Now, this isn't a newbie game, so you haven't seen me give a whole guide, which I have written up, and of which, I cut part of and gave to Mamboo. I think it is faulty to think that town would not help another in improving and being in general a better player, regardless of alignment.

Apologies, I worded that point poorly. I should have stuck my alignment vibe at the end like the rest. What I meant was that while the action of helping out a newcomer may seem very town at first, I've played with scum players before who did just this. When I say "it's less town than it may seem", I mean that this isn't as indicative of town as others might think. I didn't mean to imply that it was scummy however. I should have specified this as null.

 

[ExLight]

I'll have a case on Z25 later, going over some points that were missed. I haven't eaten in 3 days and I'm too out of it to do much right now.

jesus christ go eat something right now

 

[ExLight]

Strange that Ex liked your post.

are you usually this paranoid

I could see ExLight being on a team with either Funnier or Lore

damn I wish
imagine me being in a scumteam with the only person I know here, that would be SO nice
and why would I be in a scumteam with Lore and suggest to lynch them to help the host lmfao

why is scumlean above light scumlean tho
is it supposed to be null or?

Spoiler

First is that Osie is definitely the most town to me. Kept their composure through all accusations, and has been a consistent contributor to scum analysis.

Pythag is null to me right now. I do agree with some of his moves. I think UP has been a bit scattered. That said, other reads I feel give scummier players way too much benefit of the doubt.

Ranmaru is town/null town. I don't think it's out of the question that he could be scum, but he's been good at asking questions, especially towards the more popularly town players.

Xivii is town. Though they started kind of rough in my opinion, they've been consistent and have made some very significant posts this game.

UP is null town. They've had posts that are questionable, like the Mamboo questions, but they've also been great in noticing behavior and pushing for more discussion. I especially have enjoyed their prompts towards me to speak on others. They COULD be scum, but I feel safe about this slot.

ExLight is null. They appear much later in this thread and I've been at this for hours, so I apologize for not having much to say on them right now. I will revisit this slot,

I can't give any impressions on Mamboo's slot. It's been as good as inactive. Null I guess.

Funnier is null to me right now. I like some of their posts, but they've also made some questionable points, I especially did not enjoy their start, nor the

Z is null scum to me right now. Rather inconsistent with his reasoning to dislike the Osie haikus, and ultimately hasn't contributed much beyond refuting others. He isn't irredeemable by any measure but he needs to do more in the way of scum analysis to convince me that he isn't the pick for today.

Lore was my scummiest pick. I'm not entirely sure how to judge this slot now though. Null scum???

damn that's a lotta nulls
which at least sounds quite sincere and humble I guess ay

 

[ExLight]

since Pythag is pretty much in the bottom 3 of literally everyone would you agree to make a pressure counterwagon on him to see how he reacts? :bulbacute:

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Those good reads will certainly come with time. At this point in time, I think ZZ5 is better than Lore, but I am thinking of other routes. Yet, right now what's important is also reading your slot, and I'd like to see some for you. If you think I'm not doing enough, I can promise you one read if you promise me a read. (Which you can possibly guess at, looking at my reads list, and progression)

sure, I want your read on Xivii.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ranmaru okay of course I see that you posted a read already

 

[#HBC | Kary]

UtopianPoyzin I want to hear your read on myself / Mamboo

 

[ranmaru]

Ex, what is your point in reference to Rax's nulls? Why did you cut out the analysis? Why are you voting Pythag? You like my #516, so how does that affect your read on ZZ5?

 

[ExLight]

Ex, what is your point in reference to Rax's nulls? Why did you cut out the analysis? Why are you voting Pythag? You like my #516, so how does that affect your read on ZZ5?

Not sure if I understood the first two questions. beep boop does not compute

I'm voting Pythag because he's my scummiest read and I want people to discuss him more.

I kinda see where he's coming from with the whole "oh I'm town and I'm just trying to avoid a mislynch" and agree that this is no excuse to not try to help town discuss more info.
But your post doesn't affect my read much, especially because he posted some thoughts after that. So he's still mostly a null for me, maybe a just an itsy bitsy scummier due to not having the initiative.