Sorcerer's 11 Open

[ExLight]

wn because somehow ITS ALWAYS COMPLETELY NECESSARY

I HAVENT LIED IN THE LAST LIKE 7 GAMES
EXCEPT ON THE MAGIC ONE

 

[ExLight]

It is better if you just provide links to your most recent town and mafia games. Those will speak for themselves.

I'm in pretty much all recent games in bulbapedia and ZD forums

and damn the cooldown here is massive
what a pain

 

[ranmaru]

Alright. Can you look at my #464?

 

[ExLight]

Alright. Can you look at my #464?

yea yea
working on it, just a sec
just woke up

 

[ExLight]

honestly, D1 reasoning is usually pretty lame so if anyone already has a wagon on them without an explicit slip that usually means to me that the people on that wagon are either tinfoiling or being opportunistic

two wagons is a bit more interesting because the second wagon might be an attempt to guarantee a mislynch or shift attention from the first one in case we got lucky

I'm kinda not in the mood of going around searching for each person's excuse to vote whoever they're voting so if they could re-explain it to a lazy blob like me so I don't have to go around and read almost 500 posts that would be GREAT

If I were to make a readslist based on gut feeling and on the vote history right now I'd say Poy, Lore, Pythag as scum
Funnier is acting a bit weird too

literally everyone else except me on Null

me on town ok thanks

 

[Pythag]

Sigh

Could I maybe get some details here like idk why you feel that way and also how long have you known him and what do you think about him and how long have you played mafia do you know very many people here what do you think about yourself

I think I've played 3 games with UP. (maybe 4?)
his overtly friendly play style typically looks a lot like buddy-ing to me, under a mask of either genuine conversation or trying to create genuine conversation.
It's not enough for a vote, which is why my vote isn't on him.

I've played mafia...too long to be this bad at it. I don't think I ever quite caught the flow of forum mafia. IRL mafia ruined me.

I know - raxxel, up, lore, xivii, and z25.

Raxxel, up and z25 i don't know super duper well.

what do I think about myself? is that a meta question?

@oiso
I don't think I see it as a contradiction to interact with people? Do you avoid talking to people that you have suspicions of? Or do you just make sure to take a harsh tone with anyone that you're suspicious of?

Also, WRT Funnier, do you find it fishy at all that he called Lore early on as 'town but can't explain why' and then is interpreting Lore's replacing out pretty strongly in favor of being town.

Xivii, what are your thoughts on the Lore slot now? Did his ask to be replaced out change anything?

 

[ExLight]

oh apparently I deleted some stuff that I had written oof

Sakurai guy is voting lore just to save his ass
Poy is being a bit too aggressive here
dark shy guy is giving those "gonna defend myself and shift the topic with a zillion questions so the other seem in the defensive instead"
funnier is too collected and somewhat excited which is not something I was expecting
haiku seems legit upset at what resulted from her poking which feels townie

I kinda want to interact with Xivii, Rax, and with you a bit more directly

 

[ExLight]

oh apparently I deleted some stuff that I had written oof

by that I mean in my last post, I ain't deleting messages
just clarifying before it causes any misunderstandings mkay thanks

 

[osieorb18]

I don’t disagree with having multiple scum reads it’s simply the “FoS” way of marking it and making it known that always hits me as so slimy

Put them as scum in your reads list, say you’re thinking about lynching them instead or tomorrow but eugh stating it as a FoS is so bark without zero bite

It’s like the easy peasy scum slip I used to find in two minutes of people who tried to get town cred by posting “all these RVS posts aren’t helpful, we should be serious now” in RVS without actually ever doing anything serious and just expecting someone else to do it for them

Its hollow

Blast I debated it anyway

:shrug:

To me it's just a word. I don't think using terminology is really inherently scummy. I suppose if someone uses it to not really have positions that's one thing, but most of the time it's just a shorter way to say "I find you suspicious, but in context it's pretty much what you're saying. I see where you're coming from, but I think I just have to agree to disagree.

 

[osieorb18]

One of the first things I said in thread was that I was going to post my meta as an introduction once I were on my computer, I did it

you and Haiku might not care, but some other people might; and it might save everyone some headaches since first days can get pretty turbulent with me around when people don't understand that I might not act like they expect

Can't speak for Utopian, but in my case it's not that I don't care, but that it at times is considered scummy to self-meta because it's mostly a whole lot of wine. I personally don't look at meta of previous games. I can get something from you describing yourself, but it's probably not exactly what you're trying to convey, so keep that in mind. I don't always read what people post in the intended spirit; I often will try to look between the lines because that's mafia at its core to me. I don't think that there are definite rules for any of that. A lot of it comes down to gut. But my gut has generally gotten more accurate over the years.

 

[osieorb18]

yea yea
working on it, just a sec
just woke up

You need 3 more syllables on the first line and 2 more on the last line.

(I'm kidding.)

 

[osieorb18]

I don't think I see it as a contradiction to interact with people? Do you avoid talking to people that you have suspicions of? Or do you just make sure to take a harsh tone with anyone that you're suspicious of?

Also, WRT Funnier, do you find it fishy at all that he called Lore early on as 'town but can't explain why' and then is interpreting Lore's replacing out pretty strongly in favor of being town.

It's not the interaction which is the problem. It's the fact that the way that you address UtopianPoyzin in those two posts looks like you explicitly consider them to be town. You're talking to them as if they're considering reads. As if what you're saying to them might affect their reading of the game. It's a micro-macro contradiction. I still talk to my scumreads, but I'm clear while I'm doing so that I think that they are scum. I entertain the possibility that I might be wrong, and I (mostly) try to be polite to people. If someone is using an argument that I think that anyone in their right mind should know doesn't hold water, or worse is edging on or even crossing the line between appropriate and inappropriate in a mafia game, I'll tend to be more aggressive. But for example in the case of you, where I thought I caught something, I'm not addressing you as "I think you're definitely developing reads". Instead I'm saying "Why the contradiction?"

 

[osieorb18]

Also, WRT Funnier, do you find it fishy at all that he called Lore early on as 'town but can't explain why' and then is interpreting Lore's replacing out pretty strongly in favor of being town.

I found the town read without explanation fishy to begin with. The latter I would understand regardless of that since it was my first thought, but I also looked back at how Lore handled things, and it just feels too overwrought to be legitimate town frustration.

 

[osieorb18]

haiku seems legit upset at what resulted from her poking which feels townie

I'm not very upset. Mostly just disappointed. I didn't expect them to take this to such an Out-of-Game level. As a host, I'd have to think long and hard about whether or not that slot should be modkilled or replaced. But anyways, it's not really appropriate to discuss in the thread, which is why I've mostly tried to only really talk about them in the context of the game. I'm leaving my vote there until I see something that makes me want to townread that slot.

 

[osieorb18]

I'm leaving my vote there until I see something that makes me want to townread that slot.

(Or if I decide to go for another scumread.)

 

[osieorb18]

The argument there was that I didn’t really see “I’ll answer that later” as discouraging people from talking to me

When you haven't really been active in the thread and when someone asks you a question, you delay on answering, that doesn't exactly encourage asking you questions. I also note that you still haven't answered. But I'll wait. Just know that if you don't answer during Day 1, at this phase length, I'm somewhat more likely to scumread you based on you dodging interaction.

That said, I do like some of your posting, so we shall see.

 

[osieorb18]

and damn the cooldown here is massive
what a pain

I know, right!

 

[ranmaru]

Day ones tend to be crapshoots in general, yet we commit to stances and votes on people we suspect based on gut and / or logic. We don't look at slips in general, because we don't always have the convenience of having scum slip in the open. So eventually, we'll need y'all (Funnier, Exlight, Rax) to commit to stances on major wagons and votes for paper trail so we can look back over it in later days to see if y'all are being genuine or making **** up. Even if all you can gather is gut, like you did in #485 and #487. I do agree with the feeling that ZZ5 is voting lore to save himself and seem like he's scumhunting when he isn't being proactive or trying to help in any other way. Since you state that, does that also mean you think he may be scum as well?

 

[Xivii]

ExLight does funnier usually live up to his promises? Or will his procrastination turn into multi-day coasting?

Though one of Xi's posts
Number One-Seventy-Eight,
Townleans them for me.

Why? It was a pretty overt misinterpretation. If I hopped on it as scum, someone would eventually be likely to call it out and I'd look bad.

This explains a lot.
Thank you for the correction.
I may oblige later.

What does it explain?

I think you're too deep.
Maybe a duck is a duck?
Z could be real.

I have no idea why I multi-quoted this.

Catching up ( was away because of super bowl),

I don't really commit to strong town or scum reads day one because of how it early it is.

However with Rax's post, I see where they are coming. They haven't played too many games here though so I think its a little early to go and say that funnier is playing to just scrape by like a player in a previous game.

Other then that, they've contributed strong content and I'd be surprised if they weren't town. The only other read I have right now is you. You've been pretty productive and I didn't agree with the early comments of you being agressive, you seem pretty geunie in scum hunting this game and I like how you'd be getting people to interact more.

Other then that I'm 50/50 on other players, but there's a few I'm leaning town. Gotta catch up fully then see what I think of the game.

The bolded seems like TMI.

#433 Does not seem like a full catch up, and seems like he is voting where he was implying he'd lead into from agreeing with Osie. @Z25 You said you had a few town reads, what were those, and did they develop further, or did they change? Who else is scum besides Lore, and why?

I agree with the bolded. Feels like he was setting up Lore vote.

Xivii, what are your thoughts on the Lore slot now? Did his ask to be replaced out change anything?

Like I said, I think it's more likely to have come from scum. It's just hard to see town reacting that way to the "provocation" whereby Osie called them scum failing at ML. It only makes sense to be aggravated by this if you're scum failing at a ML. That being said, it really is just speculation. Z is scummier and I don't want to lynch someone who doesn't have a chance to claim.

Pythag what do you think about ExLight?

 

[osieorb18]

For the record, I'll add something about my thought process this game since ExLight at least seemed to think that I was upset.

When I got on the site, I figured offhandedly that it had been a while since I had played in haiku, and I might as well give it a go again. I started from my first post on the site, in signups, so that it would be clear that it was not an alignment-dependent decision.

As the game went on, a few players made clear that they were struggling with the haiku but did not use that as an excuse to vote me. It is for the sake of those players that I switched to not posting in haiku. Had the host decided to allow for Lore to continue playing, it is quite possible that I would have switched back. I really don't like it when someone holds a gun to my head; when someone throws a tantrum in thread because they aren't getting what they want and drags the entire thread into their personal, emotional-fueled, melodrama.

I wasn't responding directly to Lore outside of the post in which I extended a lifeline for them to move on if they were town while directly provoking them if they were scum. Mafia is a social game. A game of analysis of intention, motivation, and the like. Provocation can go a long way towards seeing the meaning through more organic posting in the moment. It's useful for either alignment, too. Provocation can be used as scum to manipulate someone into playing more rashly and doing what you want them to do. I do not feel that I crossed the line into openly calling Lore a cheater or a game-thrower. I didn't insult them as a person. I made clear that I thought that their vote was not a good one as town. And you can judge me for that if you'd like. But that was as far as that went.

As far as content goes, anyone can see that I can post a lot when I want to do so. Posts like this one or my readwall make that abundantly clear. But I want to do so more directly in the context of the game. Any game in which I feel, as a player or as a host, that I have to make a post talking about my thoughts on someone's behaviour in an out-of-game context is a game that is tarnished. And it happens all too often.

Anyways, that's my soapbox. Back to the game.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'll read this tonight I guess. ranmaru who's mafia?

 

[ranmaru]

This earns a solid town read from me.

Why does that gain a solid town read for you, and what do you think of the rest of their play?

 

[osieorb18]

Day ones tend to be crapshoots in general, yet we commit to stances and votes on people we suspect based on gut and / or logic. We don't look at slips in general, because we don't always have the convenience of having scum slip in the open. So eventually, we'll need y'all (Funnier, Exlight, Rax) to commit to stances on major wagons and votes for paper trail so we can look back over it in later days to see if y'all are being genuine or making **** up. Even if all you can gather is gut, like you did in #485 and #487. I do agree with the feeling that ZZ5 is voting lore to save himself and seem like he's scumhunting when he isn't being proactive or trying to help in any other way. Since you state that, does that also mean you think he may be scum as well?

I can see it, but I also don't yet believe that Z25 is the BEST candidate for the lynch today, barring anything that I haven't noticed yet, posted or not. A Z25 scumread at this point in time requires a little too much next-level thinking over a scumread on Lore-slot, on Mamboo-slot, or even Pythag.

 

[Xivii]

osieorb18 you're good dude. I love lore, but he was clearly in the wrong here.

 

[Xivii]

Why does that gain a solid town read for you, and what do you think of the rest of their play?

Because it's exactly what I was thinking, and having been scummates with Raxxel, I know he has a hard time thinking this way as scum.

 

[ranmaru]

I think it's an easy conclusion to come to, just seems obvious that I wouldn't think to give them town credit for that.

 

[Xivii]

Rest of play also solid, just expect a bit more activity. If Z25 scum, I consider them ~clear because of this:

But Z25 is definitely, by process of elimination, on the scummier end of the spectrum. Lore WAS my scummiest read, I legitimately thought they were playing up their irritation towards the haikus. But clearly they were actually angered.

If Raxxel was Z25's mate there wouldn't be a need to disavow their strongest scum read based on something people are ambiguously reading in favor of Z25

 

[osieorb18]

Though one of Xi's posts
Number One-Seventy-Eight,
Townleans them for me.

Why? It was a pretty overt misinterpretation. If I hopped on it as scum, someone would eventually be likely to call it out and I'd look bad.

It's a correction that as scum you don't need to make. You can just sit back instead as scum. So it looks pure and townie to comment on it without aggression.

What does it explain?

If you look at the context, ExLight had made a typo in a post where they were suggesting that my last post were I to be lynched later be a 5-7-5-7-7 "Death Poem". They originally had typed "Jusei", which doesn't mean anything, then fixed it by way of double post to "Jisei", the name of the poem.

I have no idea why I multi-quoted this.

Did you not understand the context or purpose of the idiom? It's saying that the read was very next-level and sometimes the simplest answer shouldn't be waved away.

 

[Xivii]

I think it's an easy conclusion to come to, just seems obvious that I wouldn't think to give them town credit for that.

Reckon this is just a difference in experience with Raxxel

 

[ranmaru]

ZZ5 is a better candidate than Lore because he's voting with interest in saving his own tail rather than progress the game for town. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

 

[osieorb18]

ZZ5 is a better candidate than Lore because he's voting with interest in saving his own tail rather than progress the game for town. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

We could get into a long theory argument over whether or not sticking to a read is townie. I'm not convinced that's productive, though. (Avast! Thar lies wine!)

When I said that "Maybe a duck is a duck", I meant this, though.

It is the simpler scenario at least to me that Z25 is, in fact, backing down as town because the core of his thought process was that I wasn't posting high levels of content and that post cannot be argued to not have a high level of content. It's another level of thinking to say "Well, maybe they're just doing that to look townie." Also, again, there lies wine.

Similarly, it appears to me at least to be the simpler scenario that Lore is just scum who got frustrated than Lore being town who stuck to their guns despite knowing that it wasn't in their better interests.

People may say I'm playing too level 0 on this, but at least on Day 1 I feel that a KISS ("Keep It Simple, Silly!") philosophy works better than jumping down rabbit holes.

 

[osieorb18]

Rereading that post, "Rabbit Season/Duck Season" came to mind.

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, I do think he is doing that to seem town. I think it is more productive to look at scum intent and the why behind posts. In general I think that is better than keeping it simple, which is still better than random lynch. Plus I really do see him believing it because of past interactions with him.

 

[ExLight]

ZZ5 is a better candidate than Lore because he's voting with interest in saving his own tail rather than progress the game for town. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

If it's a mislynch they'd prolly also try to save themselves. That's perfectly NAI.

 

[ExLight]

ExLight does funnier usually live up to his promises? Or will his procrastination turn into multi-day coasting?

Depends on his mood. What exactly is this about?

 

[ranmaru]

That's why I say rather than progressing the game for town, he's not trying outside of that vote on Lore.

 

[ExLight]

I see what you mean

 

[ranmaru]

UtopianPoyzin Why do you townread Rax? What's your recent thoughts of their play, and what is your read on me? Xivii Also interested in your read on me. Rather, the reasoning.

 

[funnier6]

Depends on his mood. What exactly is this about?

Hahahahaha ahshajjzjakaj

I generally do keep my promises but you’re right it does depend on my mood usually XD

Comsidering the extraordinary length of phases here it should be no big deal tho

also yes I stole your laughing asdf

 

[ExLight]

Hahahahaha ahshajjzjakaj

I generally do keep my promises but you’re right it does depend on my mood usually XD

Comsidering the extraordinary length of phases here it should be no big deal tho

also yes I stole your laughing asdf

so you like stealing mannerisms huh :excuseme: