Sorcerer's 11 Open

[osieorb18]

Yes, I do think he is doing that to seem town. I think it is more productive to look at scum intent and the why behind posts. In general I think that is better than keeping it simple, which is still better than random lynch. Plus I really do see him believing it because of past interactions with him.

Especially in Day 1, TOWN players do a lot to seem town. We just don't always THINK about it.

 

[osieorb18]

That's why I say rather than progressing the game for town, he's not trying outside of that vote on Lore.

I'll take another look at Z25 either when I wake up or when I get back from work.

 

[osieorb18]

Osi poetry (guy? gal? Everyone is a dude until they inform me otherwise)

I ponder, but I don't worry, about how people gender me. You're all good.

 

[Z25]

ZZ5 is a better candidate than Lore because he's voting with interest in saving his own tail rather than progress the game for town. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

If your a townie and being voted for, wouldn’t you do the same? If a mislynch on me can be avoided then I try to avoid it in games and if you want I can link you to almost any game I’ve played here to show you that’s always my thought process.

Regardless of that I’ve seen Lore and a few other players as Scum do the rage quite thing like this several times in games here because it takes heat off of their replacement when scum. Granted this is usually done unintentionally but I’ve seen this used as an actual intentional scum strat before.

Lore really escalated out of nowhere really and that behavior is odd no matter how you look at it. Regardless of what the wagon would be I would still firmly vote for Lore if the same events repeated.

If it’s not lore, then a reread on the mambo slot and their replacement if they show up(comparing the posts the replacement makes in regardless it’s current game situation) would be where I would look next.

It’s day one so there really isn’t anything major to go off. Day two is when things can really be analyzed and we can learn more information based on night events combined with day one events.

 

[Pythag]

Did a big reread today. My eye is on the lore wagon.

Spoiler: z25

I don’t have any strong scum reads right now.

I’ll say one thing though. I have never played with Osie so I don’t know if they do this often, but the haiku format is a bit annoying.

It feels like a way to post something but force yourself to post as little as possible. Mafia requires more then just a few words to describe and discuss a game going on.

So their way of talking feels like a cop out that should be worth considering. Other then that, no one has had any behavior stick out to me as possible scum.

You say that I shouldn’t be focusing on the hiatus, and yet that’s exactly what you did and you voted for them over it.

Also are you talking about 143 by XI? Because I really don’t see see that as them town slipping mambo when they are talking more in a general sense and I’ve spoken similar in games.

And are you going to sit here and tell me the hiku format is fine? They are posting 3-5 words per line, not even a complete sentence or even clear grammar most of the time. That’s hardly contributing imo and doesn’t make for great content. It’s not a scum indicator but an experience player shouldn’t be playing with so few words

It appears that z25 was concerned that osio was only going to be posting one haiku per post. His tune changes immediately after osio's big post :

See this is a lot more substance. So thank you, I hope that you can post more walls like this. Like Xi said I was just about to ask for quote links too.

This is all fine for me. This strikes me as legit, and doesn't ring scummy for me.

However because of this :

Ok caught up. Kinda of sucks to see Lore leave, but I've seen that behavior happen before when frustrated. Remembering their plays as scum, I think the idea that they left after being tunneled as scum makes a lot of sense. Their flip would be pretty helpful imo as well. I don't want to immediately vote on a replacement but Lore's behavior shouldn't go without questions. I have seen similar moves where scum swapped out after getting mad and people immediately stopped going against that slot, leaving a scum alive for quite some time.

if Lore flipped town, I look at z25, osio, xivii, Exlight.

I've seen lore tunneled harder in other games and he hasn't left, as town or scum.

so from my point of view he's not necessarily going for a scummy lynch as much as an info lynch / convenience(?) lynch. Which isn't WRONG, like, I'm not going to deny that a lore flip tells the town a lot, but I haven't seen anything yet that that really makes me want to vote that way.

Trying to figure out if Ran is on to something or not. I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

Pythag what do you think about ExLight?

>.>

[spoiler ="exlight"]

Inconsequential? little lazy? Nothing of real substance posted. Lots of interactions with UP and Funnier, but that's pretty much it.
Posting his meta was odd, and uncalled for, after i think someone specifically said meta isn't that great. (I think it was osio)

honestly D1 is pretty much a shot in the dark and if it would save the host some headaches from the whole finding subs stuff I'm fine with lynching whoever is subbing out

only thing I note is that I view this reasoning as similar to Z25's view and vote on Lore.

[/spoiler]

 

[ExLight]

only thing I note is that I view this reasoning as similar to Z25's view and vote on Lore.

yea, hi, mine came first so he's just parroting me
I don't see why this is relevant to read me when it tells more about Z25 than about me

Inconsequential? little lazy? Nothing of real substance posted. Lots of interactions with UP and Funnier, but that's pretty much it.
Posting his meta was odd, and uncalled for, after i think someone specifically said meta isn't that great. (I think it was osio)

damn you offend me
do I have to put a serious face and pretend I'm one of those pompous mfs that know-it-all to have my posts respected?
I posted my meta as a way to introduce myself because I said I was going to. And Haiku might not care about meta but some other people might. As I said before, I have a really hard time playing in new places because people often think that the unknown and odd is "scummy" because it doesn't match their culture.
You're making me repeat myself for like the third time and make me look bad because of it, which is usually a scumtell because scums are the ones who don't care about paying attention to reading the thread and just want to find someone to scapegoat, so eh.

 

[Pythag]

I know you said you were posting your meta. I understand, I still just think it's odd.

you would prefer then I don't look at your posts, and just go off of your meta and only find you strange when you haven't died D1 or N4?

It's the same when UP, Lore and I think someone else (Xivii) said before the game 'I'm going to help the new player, don't read it as scummy.'

I don't like giving that a pass. In other games when I've explained things or what have you, I simply am aware of how it looks. For some reason labeling posts as 'off limits' is weird to me.

You're making me repeat myself for like the third time

I wasn't talking to you.

yea, hi, mine came first so he's just parroting me

I'll double check this, that's a dang good point if it's true.

I don't see why this is relevant to read me when it tells more about Z25 than about me

That whole post on you was to xivii, who asked me my thoughts on you.

which is usually a scumtell because scums are the ones who don't care about paying attention to reading the thread and just want to find someone to scapegoat, so eh.

ironic.

 

[ExLight]

I wasn't talking to you.

I'll double check this, that's a dang good point if it's true.

That whole post on you was to xivii, who asked me my thoughts on you.

ironic.

wooow you're ROOD
You're talking about me, and about stuff I already explained
I have the right to, and will, defend myself against nonsensical accusations

you would prefer then I don't look at your posts, and just go off of your meta and only find you strange when you haven't died D1 or N4?

noone is saying that and I just mentioned it as a fun fact ayy
outta 17 deaths in all games, 10 of them were like this

but you're clearly doing that anyway tho otherwise I wouldn't be here calling you out
which is pretty scummy

Vote: Pythag

hi can you give me a meta read of yourself and of some members from here

 

[Dooplissity]

Vote Count
Z25 - 4 - Kary, Xivii, UtopianPoyzin, Ranmaru
Lore - 3 - RaxxeL, osieorb18, Z25
funnier6 - 1 - Pythag
ExLight - 1 - funnier6
Pythag - 1 - ExLight
osieorb18 - 1 - Lore

Spoiler: Vote History

UtopianPoyzin: osieorb18(4) -> Z25(17)
Mamboo07: Z25(3) -> Replaced by Kary(18)
Xivii: ExLight(1) -> Mamboo07(12) -> Z25(14)
Z25: Lore(20)
Pythag: funnier6(13)
Lore: osieorb18(11)
ExLight: Pythag(21)
funnier6: ExLight(7)
Ranmaru: funnier6(6) -> OsieOrb18(9) -> Unvote(10) -> Z25(19)
RaxxeL: Lore(5)
osieorb18: Ranmaru(2) -> Xivii(8) -> Unvote(15) -> Lore(16)

Deadline is Feb 6th @ 5:00 PM PST.
With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to reach majority.
I am currently seeking replacement for Lore.

 

[Pythag]

I have the right to, and will, defend myself against nonsensical accusations

what did I accuse you of?

 

[ExLight]

what did I accuse you of?

CWAC, sheeping Z25, and using a meta introduction to justify any possible scummy actions

 

[osieorb18]

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight. For that matter, details to your reads on most if not all slots would be very appreciated. But don't let that hold you back from giving me details on your read on ExLight.

ranmaru After looking back at Z25, I see where people could be coming from, but again I feel like it's a stretch. The general lack of reads even after catchup isn't great, but they fix that a bit later, and the response to me about Lore wasn't great, but the recent push on Lore looks okay, and the early response to Poyzin, while going after a potential hunting tool, was later well-explained, and well-discussed. It wasn't just a refutation; there was reasoning to it. I feel like some people are also ignoring 454 as a bad response, and I don't agree with that.

So I guess I'm kinda defending Z25 here, because I don't see them as a good lynch right now. Lore-slot and Mamboo-slot are both better choices. I'm looking back at ExLight and Pythag next to see how I feel about the two of them.

 

[osieorb18]

The argument there was that I didn’t really see “I’ll answer that later” as discouraging people from talking to me

And yes I still plan to answer it eventually but I’m procrastinating as we speak and I really should sleep tonight

You have just over 75 hours remaining to do so, and to generally catch up. I'm keeping an eye on your posts for it, too.

 

[Xivii]

I could see osiemandias being scum with Z

 

[Z25]

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight. For that matter, details to your reads on most if not all slots would be very appreciated. But don't let that hold you back from giving me details on your read on ExLight.

ranmaru After looking back at Z25, I see where people could be coming from, but again I feel like it's a stretch. The general lack of reads even after catchup isn't great, but they fix that a bit later, and the response to me about Lore wasn't great, but the recent push on Lore looks okay, and the early response to Poyzin, while going after a potential hunting tool, was later well-explained, and well-discussed. It wasn't just a refutation; there was reasoning to it. I feel like some people are also ignoring 454 as a bad response, and I don't agree with that.

So I guess I'm kinda defending Z25 here, because I don't see them as a good lynch right now. Lore-slot and Mamboo-slot are both better choices. I'm looking back at ExLight and Pythag next to see how I feel about the two of them.

Sure,

478 and 479

are posts that I feel tryS to hard to try and sell the slot as a townie or a player with bad luck. Yes Ex is new but both these posts seem out of place and trying to set up a narrative and picture of them that we should trust. Which while past games can work as good indicators of a slots behavior should be used as true evidence. Anyone can switch up play styles between games if they want too, and at the end of the day not every person will act differently regardless of alignment.

481

The use of all caps and again trying to use past games as hard evidence of their statements being true sounds like WIFOM. Minus the fact that there isn’t a wagon forming on them which is when you would normally see a townie act defensive like this to protect themselves and occasionally scum. Although personally I’ve seen it as a bad townie play more then a scum play in games. That doesn’t matter when it could go either way here.

526

They talk about to Pythag how they had the idea of d1 voting being essentially a Guess first and how that I was parroting this.

Except I’m pretty sure I’m not the only other person in this thread with that idea( but I’d have to re read). It’s not like it’s a big revelation either. If you’ve played mafia this is common knowledge, so using it to take a bit of a jab at me comes off as a weaker point imo.

As for the second part of that. I really don’t see how Pythag was making them look bad there. I had no change in option over either of them based on that interaction and it seems the thread thought similarity. This again gives off a sort of victim act from them which I don’t like. If your town it only makes you look bad and isn’t a strong play imo.

Granted I can definitely see them being upset by pythag’s post which comes off a little harsh. Ex’s reaction to it still isn’t too great though, but I could see it as frustrated town. I don’t agree with them going to vote afterwards for pythag.

Pythag was applying a lot of pressure on them so I get where ex could be coming from, but it seems to be a strong and bad reaction to pressure.

I wouldn’t say they are one hundred percent scum, but this interaction has me leaning them more as scum, but it could be a very upset townie and then I would look at pythag more based on the flip. I’ve seen this go both ways and been in similar situations myself when I got really heated, but I’m leaning towards potential scum reacting poorly to a little pressure.

I’ve gotta head out for a bit but if I can tonight I’ll post more details on other reads later tonight

 

[ranmaru]

I would offer an alternative if I wasn't already, but I would be doing more to show that I care about the health of the game, and not sit on my laurels. That's if I was in a position where I wasn't doing enough to where people would be voting me. That's where we are at with you. Stating that Lore's behavior is odd no matter how you look at it doesn't actually mean anything, it doesn't show us why he's more likely to be scum here than town.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

It's the same when UP, Lore and I think someone else (Xivii) said before the game 'I'm going to help the new player, don't read it as scummy.'

I’ll have more insightful comments later, but this is a falsity and I think I advised Ranmaru against buddying.

 

[ranmaru]

Osie, I get the feeling that we are going to disagree with reads in general. I find your defense townie, but I don't agree with it. If you want to sell me on a better option, I don't think you'll gain any ground if you give me Lore and Mamboo. I am interested in your thoughts on Rax, Pythag, and any other null I have.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

wow you could have told me I was voting for someone doops

Unvote

 

[#HBC | Kary]

osieorb18 gimme three town reads and two scum reads

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ranmaru you didn't tell me who's mafia.

UtopianPoyzin who's mafia?

 

[ranmaru]

You can read that from my posts, and my vote.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You can read that from my posts, and my vote.

you could be helping me out here and giving me something to work from as I get caught up on this game.

you say that z25 isn't doing enough in just voting for Lore

I say you're not doing enough in just voting for z25

hit me up with some good reads brother

 

[ranmaru]

Those good reads will certainly come with time. At this point in time, I think ZZ5 is better than Lore, but I am thinking of other routes. Yet, right now what's important is also reading your slot, and I'd like to see some for you. If you think I'm not doing enough, I can promise you one read if you promise me a read. (Which you can possibly guess at, looking at my reads list, and progression)

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

his overtly friendly play style typically looks a lot like buddy-ing to me, under a mask of either genuine conversation or trying to create genuine conversation.
It's not enough for a vote, which is why my vote isn't on him.

Poy is being a bit too aggressive here

Well which is it?

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin Why do you townread Rax? What's your recent thoughts of their play, and what is your read on me?

I like the way that Raxxel has been weighing in on thread topics while trying to be fair to both sides. Seems to really want to figure this game out, which is why their town, but it isn't out of the question for them to be a WW so they're slight town.

You're null. Don't have a good opinion on you so I'll have to ask in a bit.

This is an overly defensive response.
That said, I don't like this post,

I do like this however, you show a clear interest in Pythag's justification towards his read on someone as opposed to taking a short answer and leaving it there. Definitely comes across as town.

Regarding Raxxel, this is their most recent post before disappearing since last night. Looks good, weighs the pros and cons of funnier while making a final read. I might disagree with the "town" bit but they still look like their yearning to help, so I don't have any problems with it. Slight town remains.

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin who's mafia?

Lore and/or Z25 but both of these aren't as strong as they used to be because they formed primarily around the first 24 hours. Still like them though, until I like something else more. Both the wagon and counterwagon are fine options for now.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

ranmaru can you list me some of your townie posts? Thanks

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Towncore Xivii and osieorb18 which wagon are we going with? I really think I need to reconsider my vote on Z25 but I really liked it earlier so I'm sure there's still something there. There recent posts have apparently been better though but they were really scummy early game. Lore on the other hand would be a pretty obvious alternative if we believe Z25, and the case there is pretty strong to. I need to re-ISO Z25 I think.

 

[ranmaru]

All of them, UP. Better you ask Xiivi and Osie for thoughts, or anyone else. From your opinion, what have I been doing this game?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Osie, I get the feeling that we are going to disagree with reads in general. I find your defense townie, but I don't agree with it. If you want to sell me on a better option, I don't think you'll gain any ground if you give me Lore and Mamboo. I am interested in your thoughts on Rax, Pythag, and any other null I have.

All of them, UP. Better you ask Xiivi and Osie for thoughts, or anyone else. From your opinion, what have I been doing this game?

Not buying it. I would love to hear Xivii's and Osie's take, but is my null read not valid? I don't think any of your posts are particularly townie, but not scummy either. Right in the middle. Also you seem to disagree with one of my top town reads, so I don't think that you are being sincere when you say "better you ask osie".

 

[ranmaru]

Rax? Yes, I do disagree with that. I don't think he deserves a town read.

 

[ranmaru]

I think you misunderstand. I town read Osie, and find the defense townie, but don't agree that Lore is better than ZZ5.

 

[ExLight]

Can we ask setup related questions here or that has a private chat with the host?

I think you misunderstand. I town read Osie, and find the defense townie, but don't agree that Lore is better than ZZ5.

hi hi hi, do you have any reason why would we want to keep an inactive

while we don't get a sub Lore's slot will just get modkilled or stay inactive
so it will only hurt town, so I'm fine with there being lynched first
my home forum has a massive problem with inactivity, and the inactive members usually are left by scum and just end up creating a virtually faster -Lo, which is a PAIN

once we had a virtual -Lo by D2 there due to inactivity which was a fookin pain since we had to lynch scum correctly like three times in a row
I know it's not the case here since most people are active but that's a nice story and I like stories and it illustrates the extreme version of my point which kinda traumatized a lot because I subbed in that game and it was STRESSFUL

and it would be nice to help the host which is something I always stand by

we should try to find someone to fill in, but if we don't in time then I don't see what's the vantage of just letting a potential power role there without doing a thing; it had a leading wagon on it for a while and it might be scum so we'll get info from it anyway

Well which is it?

why not both
I'll try to pick some posts that came off as aggressive to me

 

[ranmaru]

Normally, it would be in town's interest to have an inactive lynch Day 2, in my opinion. At the very least, I'd go for a scummy inactive, but always try to go for my top scum pick as priority. Also, in this setup, we have a Martyr, they should use inactives as their target on their possible death.

 

[ranmaru]

My mistake, I meant Hunter. I even looked back and saw, but still said Matyr.

 

[Xivii]

Strange that Ex liked your post.

 

[Pythag]

Rax? Yes, I do disagree with that. I don't think he deserves a town read.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[ranmaru]

I can in a bit.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Rax? Yes, I do disagree with that. I don't think he deserves a town read.

Can I get a complete readslist from you? I’m not asking you to elaborate too much, but you can if you’d like.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Could you elaborate on this?

Yeah that

 

[ranmaru]

I can, and It'll have Rax in there too. Later today.