Sorcerer's 11 Open

[osieorb18]

and why would I be in a scumteam with Lore and suggest to lynch them to help the host lmfao

why is scumlean above light scumlean tho
is it supposed to be null or?

That's a good point, though bussing does exist.

Scumlean
Light Scumread
Strong Scumread.

 

[ExLight]

Scumlean
Light Scumread
Strong Scumread.

oh I'm blind nvm

 

[osieorb18]

#HBC | Kary Are you caught up yet? Right now you're just spitting out posts asking other people for reads and I'm wondering if you're planning to provide some of your own contributions or not.

 

[osieorb18]

Reading ZZ5 over again, I see no real effort to sort players from him. The only questioning he has done, has been to UP, Osie, and myself. As Rax has said, ZZ5 has only been giving content in response to questions from others. He has a scum lean in #535 on Ex but keeps his vote on Lore. No change in read on ZZ5.

He's spent time defending himself, but I would not say that all of his reads are prompted by others. And that last bit is just shade. It's Day 1, people are going to have multiple scumleans and the like. He clearly scumleaned Lore harder than Ex.

 

[osieorb18]

For the record, I think that the Lore / z25 / osie argument is a stupid thing to focus the Day phase around. Wouldn't be surprised if there's no scum there at all. Didn't see enough from Lore to actually get a read on them. That slot needs replacing ASAP.

I think that the reaction to it is easy enough to go for as a mislynch as scum that actually I would say it's a good place to look. I just don't agree with the reads on Z25.

 

[osieorb18]

I literally point out that you're being aggressive with pointless questions and you reply that with three more
is this intentional or

You're both probably town in this argument. Let's move on.

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | Kary how is the first post different from the second?

Alright Kary I'm relying on you to break this whole game down to the core. Once you're caught up I'd love to hear your thoughts on Lore and Z25's reactions to Osie and whether there is scum there.

you could be helping me out here and giving me something to work from as I get caught up on this game.

you say that z25 isn't doing enough in just voting for Lore

I say you're not doing enough in just voting for z25

hit me up with some good reads brother

are you usually this paranoid

It indicates that you didn't care about the reasoning behind his post. Why did you think martyr targeting an inactive was a good idea?

They talked about catching up, and in 466 mentioned maybe having a scumread on Ex. It was also a way to draw Z25 out to post reads and see if it felt organic.

Why did you care more about his Ex read than his pythag read?

 

[osieorb18]

Right now I feel like I'm agreeing with at least about half of earlier-mid-game Pythag on the game state to a degree (Townleaning Z25, tinfoiling Utopian, scumreading Funnier, concerned about Kary, still scumreading Lore) and that's bugging me since Pythag is so low in everyone's reads. I'm probably going to blank my reads and reread.

 

[osieorb18]

Why did you care more about his Ex read than his pythag read?

Because I was trying to work out my own read on ExLight more directly and felt like it was more useful to get opinions of others. My Pythag read is more something that I need to work out for myself.

 

[osieorb18]

The cooldown timer on this site is incredibly obnoxious. I don't always remember just how good I have it playing on a few dedicated mafia sites (MC, MU, Mafia451) and one site (MtGSalvation) that while annoying still has an ISO feature and no cooldown.

 

[Xivii]

What about pythag and Ex's play make's your pythag read something you need to work out for yourself, whereas your Ex read warranted help?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

#HBC | Kary Are you caught up yet? Right now you're just spitting out posts asking other people for reads and I'm wondering if you're planning to provide some of your own contributions or not.

Yes I'm caught up.

#HBC | Kary how is the first post different from the second?

I'm replacing in so it's perfectly reasonable for me to ask for help in catching up. I also included a stance on Ran in my post.

Do you genuinely think that they're the same?

 

[Xivii]

Not as nice as the iso function, but if you click search, leave the first field blank, select "this thread" and insert the user's name, it gives you all their posts from the thread (not sure if this was apparent or not, but I remember you mentioning using find function)

 

[Xivii]

@ Kary, yeah they look the same to me

I figured UP was trying to get you into the game, and I thought you were using your getting into the game to get a read on Ranmaru

 

[osieorb18]

What about pythag and Ex's play make's your pythag read something you need to work out for yourself, whereas your Ex read warranted help?

My Pythag read is based more on my own gut and my own interpretations of contradictions. My Ex read is closer to null and based on not nearly as much; I find myself skimming a lot more in the case of Ex; they have a lot more fluff and not as much to sway the needle. So I wanted to see if other people were catching more, and since Z25 was one of the few people to openly scumlean Ex, I figured why not kill two birds with one stone and see if there was a good explanation for that. The explanation was decent, even if I didn't entirely agree with it.

Yes I'm caught up.

The interactions between me, Z25, and Lore are one of the more significant things to happen this day phase. Why do you feel that they should receive lower focus?

 

[osieorb18]

Not as nice as the iso function, but if you click search, leave the first field blank, select "this thread" and insert the user's name, it gives you all their posts from the thread (not sure if this was apparent or not, but I remember you mentioning using find function)

I helped set up Mafia Colosseum as a site using XenForo; I know how well that search function works. I've found that for the purpose of ISOs, using find on unique mini-profile info is WAY more effective than the basic XenForo search which cuts posts and the like. A friend helped us to fix the search function and got us ISO buttons on each post. One of the best upgrades we have.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

The interactions between me, Z25, and Lore are one of the more significant things to happen this day phase. Why do you feel that they should receive lower focus?

getting hung up on the first thing that happens on Day 1 makes the game stagnate

 

[ExLight]

It indicates that you didn't care about the reasoning behind his post. Why did you think martyr targeting an inactive was a good idea?

I understood that he meant the hunter

 

[Xivii]

Did his response help you develop your read?

If you were interested in using other people to develop your read, why did you phrase it like this?

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight.

Why specifically refer to my prodding for Pythag's read here? Surely if you were trying to develop your read on Ex, 3 birds is better than 2.

 

[Z25]

Alright so for not getting to post this last night, but my current reads:

Utopian: Leaning town here but went back and forth before their recent content. A post like 455 where they seem to really want the approval from osie isn't great. In any game, saying something like " is it bad I agree with the post" is just a poor statement. You shouldn't need anyone to share your same opinions, or seek that validation. Also explicitly citing that makes it seem like you have nothing but a bad read on the slot in question. By which I mean, his statement here has him sound like he views my content as nothing but bad with little chance to change his mind, and feeling bad about liking content from a player whose content he is against, just comes off as wrong all around. You should always keep an open mind on slots, as sometimes people can make bad posts but still have other posts or great quality. You shouldn't just look down on people because of a few posts you don't agree with. I know that statement was directed at me, but I'm not mad or anything. I just don't that's a mindset to be had towards anyone tbh. Especially when two posts later they immediately go and retract that something for disagreeing with just one line in.

Which is sort of fair, but like you shouldn't throw out an entire post's contents just because you dislike one line out of it but thought the other points were good. If town, that's a really rough mindset to have. I'm not saying this makes them looking scummier, but it doesn't help strengthen my read or lower it on them. Granted I think this is more just an early attempt to engage conversation with different users, which I do like as discussion is pretty important overall, but especially important day one.

Overall I see this slot as a pretty strong town one. 603 for examples is short but gives a good example as to why I like this slot. They make sure to stay committed to their thoughts and are pretty interactive.

545-547 shows they are really looking to interact with everyone which in turns strengthens their reads and offers a lot of good discussion in this game, that I find to have helped things move forward smoothly. I'd find it unlikely for scum to be this active and trying this much to discuss the game with everyone. So they have a strong town read in my book. Would be pretty surprised if they are scum.

Xivii: One of the users I don't have a good feel for atm. They have been active, but their presence isn't made as big as some of the others on my list, so I don't have a good read. This might be an attempt to stay low radar as a scum, but it's hard to say. I am leaning scum, but its definitely a weaker read right not and not a user I would say is a priority lynch today.

Kary: Not much to say here, I want to see their thoughts when caught up and go from there. As for who they replaced. I didn't like mambo but thats not a hot take. He was was just trolling and being annoying in this game and I genuinely don't even account that to being new, he just didn't care. While that is scummy behavior, its scummy out of a game's context, but in game it probably didn't mean anything when mambo was just trolling to troll. I doubt their alignment would have changed that.

Rax: Didn't have a great read on the slot before but their 565 post of their reads and breakdown gave a lot of content. Solid analysis and gave me a good idea on how they are thinking this game compared to the other posts they made. I can't see Scum Rax posting that much and that strong of an analysis. Hoping we get to see more content from them that is that in depth.

Pythag: Honestly forgot they were planning until yesterday. Their interactions with EX as I noted were interesting. I get more of a attempt to scumhunt vibe more then anything else, even if I believe Pythag could have been offering more content all around as what they have posted hasn't given me much to work at to get a good feel for them as a player. Even in past games I've played with them recently, they've been more on the lower inactivity side so I don't have good ways to measure this slot.

Lore: I've already said plenty here, but they did nothing but act poorly this game over a little thing and their behavior was far from town intent. I've already discussed them as I said so I don't have anything to add, just read my other posts if interested. Still thinking they had the most scummy behavior out of anyone and am leaving my vote for now. I don't know if we will find a replacement but if we do I'll unvote and see how I feel about the replacement. Otherwise this slot might be host killed if there is no replacement or if they are left be, that's one less player we have, which is overall bad. Scum could keep targeting people and there would be one less slot to potentially stop them if the lore slot wasn't scum themselves. Right now though, I think given everything Lore is a strong scum candidate for the vote today.

Exlight: I've already made an analysis here, but they are still a scum lean, but not a slot I would put as higher then Lore's behavior was as scum. They would be a decent pick today for a lynch based on what I outlined yesterday.

funnier: Been reading more into this slot. 468 is a mostly bad post. Specifically claiming that they would have the same mindset as Lore this game and ragequit if in their shoes, as well as the fact that they think Lore being toxic this game and quitting, makes them a stronger town read to them. That's not at all how mafia should be viewed or played. Could Lore have been town and rage quitting? Sure but their reasoning behind quitting feels anti town to me and should definitely not be viewed as a good thing.

I also do not like the bottom part of that post. Pointing out that another player has a habitat of lying in games, feels like a jab to try and setup EX down the line. If your townie you should not be using your connections/interactions with someone in other games to control a narrative for the current game. When its likely they aren't both scum and could both be townies; not knowing each others roles, then pointing out that a player is a liar is a scummy move. It uses non physical evidence and is circumstantial evidence at best. But I don't think it should be used as evidence at all.

In 476 they pretty much admit to hardly reading and paying attention to this thread. They truly seem to care little here and that's anti town. Even if new to this site, you signed up to play, if town, you should really be using these day one posts to learn about all the users you aren't familiar with and form reads around that. Someone who is suppose to be very experienced should give a lot more of a damn about the game at hand. So I'm feeling this slot has a good chance to be scum.

ranmaru: Still not much I can say here. They've been active, but I just don't have a good read based on their posts. Its hard to gauge who they are as a player from their content, at least to me. If I had to choose an alignment I'd probably go with town.

osie: I may not have liked the haiku bit, however unlike Lore, I think trying to push votes onto someone for that was stupid. As I said before, I didn't agree with the format, but when their posts got longer, the content was pretty good. Even when it was shorter, I wasn't getting scum vibes from their content. Overall pretty solid slot that's been active and are likely town. Their content on page 15 gives me similar vibes to Utopian's. A lot of interaction effort is being made here with some nice and long posts. Starting with their reads that page then breaking down their thoughts more and making sure to discuss with ran on the page, feels pretty townie to me and was a solid exchange.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok so that's my thoughts so far. I've definitely gotten stronger reads but I still would like to interact with ran and xiivii to learn more about them when I can.

In terms of overall ratings right now:

Town:

Utopian
Osie
ran( more of a town lean, need to better my read here)
rax

Null:

Kary

Scum lean:

Xi
Ex
Pythag( Would like to see more here to truly decide on where I'd place their alignment)

More then likely Scum:
Lore
Funnier

 

[osieorb18]

getting hung up on the first thing that happens on Day 1 makes the game stagnate

It wasn't the first thing. It was just one of the most notable.

The first thing that happened was Xivii/UP/Ranmaru/Raxxel/Myself going back and forth a bunch when entering the thread.

 

[Z25]

Also now that I posted that, after reading the thread, I'm curious

#HBC | Kary why vote Utopian? I might have missed it because I was focusing on compiling my last post primarily while reading new posts here, but I would love to hear more on that slot for you or even more reads in general since you've caught up.

 

[osieorb18]

Did his response help you develop your read?

If you were interested in using other people to develop your read, why did you phrase it like this?


Why specifically refer to my prodding for Pythag's read here? Surely if you were trying to develop your read on Ex, 3 birds is better than 2.

I placed Z25 higher than Pythag. Z25's read was more useful to me than Pythag's since Z25 was closer to null and of more note in the general thread ethos. I think you're also reading a bit far into my dismissal of Pythag's read. It was more that at the time I was more focused in on placing Z25 than I was on placing Pythag. At this point, Pythag is more up in the air, and Z25 is steadily climbing into my townleans/light townreads.

 

[osieorb18]

Ok so that's my thoughts so far. I've definitely gotten stronger reads but I still would like to interact with ran and xiivii to learn more about them when I can.

In terms of overall ratings right now:

Town:

Utopian
Osie
ran( more of a town lean, need to better my read here)
rax

Null:

Kary

Scum lean:

Xi
Ex
Pythag( Would like to see more here to truly decide on where I'd place their alignment)

More then likely Scum:
Lore
Funnier

This is a scarily exact mindmeld with my current thoughts on the game state, with the exception that I no longer have a scumlean on Ex; they're a townlean or null prior to a reread.

 

[osieorb18]

This is a scarily exact mindmeld with my current thoughts on the game state, with the exception that I no longer have a scumlean on Ex; they're a townlean or null prior to a reread.

Actually, Xi is also in townlean territory right now still.

But yeah, Funnier and Lore, with a side of Kary, Pythag.

 

[osieorb18]

I had literally just been pondering this list a few minutes before Z posted 660:

Town:

ExLight
Raxxel
UtopianPoyzin
Z25

Townlean w/ Tinfoils:

Ranmaru
Xivii

Null:

#HBC | Kary
Pythag

Scum:

funnier6
Lore

 

[osieorb18]

I'm not sure that's my exact reads yet, but it's definitely a possible interpretation of the gamestate.

 

[Dooplissity]

I don't have any response from any of my potential subs yet - if anyone knows someone who wants to play, please tell them to message me! In the meantime I'll continue to look for subs. Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@ Kary, yeah they look the same to me

I figured UP was trying to get you into the game, and I thought you were using your getting into the game to get a read on Ranmaru

So does me being a hypocrite make me scummy? Because I can't tell whether you're trying to defend Poyzin.

 

[Xivii]

I placed Z25 higher than Pythag. Z25's read was more useful to me than Pythag's since Z25 was closer to null and of more note in the general thread ethos. I think you're also reading a bit far into my dismissal of Pythag's read. It was more that at the time I was more focused in on placing Z25 than I was on placing Pythag. At this point, Pythag is more up in the air, and Z25 is steadily climbing into my townleans/light townreads.

That still doesn't answer the question as to why you felt the need to mention pythag at all? Why didn't you just ask Z for his Ex read? And why the egging on in the bolded?

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight. For that matter, details to your reads on most if not all slots would be very appreciated. But don't let that hold you back from giving me details on your read on ExLight.

 

[osieorb18]

That still doesn't answer the question as to why you felt the need to mention pythag at all? Why didn't you just ask Z for his Ex read? And why the egging on in the bolded?

Pythag had just given their read on ExLight, so it was topical. Kinda just offhand. Didn't think much about the mention at the time. I was still not even townleaning Z at the time, very much null to scumlean, so I addressed them as someone who might argue that they are waiting on forming a full set of reads and therefore not giving me the main read that I wanted to see.

 

[Xivii]

So does me being a hypocrite make me scummy? Because I can't tell whether you're trying to defend Poyzin.

No, I don't think hypocrisy is scummy. I'm pointing out the flaw in the argument for the same reason I pointed out the flaws in Ran's Osie read early in the day.

 

[osieorb18]

No, I don't think hypocrisy is scummy. I'm pointing out the flaw in the argument for the same reason I pointed out the flaws in Ran's Osie read early in the day.

Yeah, I've also called people hypocrites distinct from calling them scummy this game.

 

[osieorb18]

I don't have any response from any of my potential subs yet - if anyone knows someone who wants to play, please tell them to message me! In the meantime I'll continue to look for subs. Thanks.

Sent a friend your way.

 

[Xivii]

Pythag had just given their read on ExLight, so it was topical. Kinda just offhand. Didn't think much about the mention at the time. I was still not even townleaning Z at the time, very much null to scumlean, so I addressed them as someone who might argue that they are waiting on forming a full set of reads and therefore not giving me the main read that I wanted to see.

Ok one last discrepancy to cover and I'm done. You say that you were scumleaning him at the time, but the rest of your post suggests the opposite. That's why this stood out to me. In your first paragraph, you make it look like you're scum reading him, then in the second two paragraphs, you defend him and say he's not someone you want to lynch.

Z25 I'm actually more interested in YOUR current read on ExLight than in Pythag's read on ExLight. For that matter, details to your reads on most if not all slots would be very appreciated. But don't let that hold you back from giving me details on your read on ExLight.

@Ranmaru After looking back at Z25, I see where people could be coming from, but again I feel like it's a stretch. The general lack of reads even after catchup isn't great, but they fix that a bit later, and the response to me about Lore wasn't great, but the recent push on Lore looks okay, and the early response to Poyzin, while going after a potential hunting tool, was later well-explained, and well-discussed. It wasn't just a refutation; there was reasoning to it. I feel like some people are also ignoring 454 as a bad response, and I don't agree with that.

So I guess I'm kinda defending Z25 here, because I don't see them as a good lynch right now. Lore-slot and Mamboo-slot are both better choices. I'm looking back at ExLight and Pythag next to see how I feel about the two of them.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No, I don't think hypocrisy is scummy. I'm pointing out the flaw in the argument for the same reason I pointed out the flaws in Ran's Osie read early in the day.

Because it makes it look like you're doing something without actually giving reads or providing reasoning

 

[Xivii]

Sure, if you want to read it in a negative way.

 

[Raxxel]

Eh. Why is reading Pythag so exciting? Comes off as forced.

However, your notes bit looks like a good stream of conscious so I like it.

I have some concerns with your read of me, however. You seem to be correlating tone with alignment, noting how my forceful posts are interpreted as scum leaning but the later posts are town leaning? I’ve been the same person the whole game.

In addition, you said that my Mamboo questioning was null and unreadablein your notes, but said it was questionable later? Why wouldn’t you say the posts you designated as potentially scummy?

The Pythag excitement came from my familiarity towards the player. As I mentioned, aside from Z, they're the only player who has also been in the other two games I was in. It's worth keeping in mind that like you mentioned, the notes are a stream of consciousness. I spent easily an hour, maybe two, up at 1:00 or so PM est reading through and taking notes. I know Pythag is a very good player, but he took a while to finally show up, especially for someone who took an excruciating amount of time reading each page. Seeing a player of this caliber finally enter, and with some content to read and analyze, is exciting.

You may be the same person all game, but your starting content itself definitely felt a little forced. Individually, these early posts had a bit of a forced scum tone to them. However, as things progressed, you found footing and your content became more consistent with that of a town player.

I don't recall saying your questions unreadable. Far from it. I said that they couldn't be answered by Mamboo. I considered it null since while I didn't find it particularly scum indicative given it's early game, I didn't find it particularly impressive as a town move either.

Do you have anything else to say regarding my notes? Do you think I left something out, a stone unturned:

 

[osieorb18]

Ok one last discrepancy to cover and I'm done. You say that you were scumleaning him at the time, but the rest of your post suggests the opposite. That's why this stood out to me. In your first paragraph, you make it look like you're scum reading him, then in the second two paragraphs, you defend him and say he's not someone you want to lynch.

There were enough people who were better lynches that a defense of a null to scumlean was not unreasonable.

 

[Raxxel]

I don't have any response from any of my potential subs yet - if anyone knows someone who wants to play, please tell them to message me! In the meantime I'll continue to look for subs. Thanks.

I demand my Brindor redemption.