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I mean you could say that’s a lot but honestly Ive has a lot of bad town games where I haven’t done well for mainly stupid reasons.
I can count maybe 5 games where I was actually playing super well but then no one wanted to believe my thoughts because due to past games there’s a usually bad stigma towards me where I get lynched day one to get lynched day one basically.
As for Rax playing well, that isn’t my doing. If you read their games I think you would at least know that for a newbie they are actually pretty decently versed.
Having been in both games they played before this I was honestly impressed.
Especially when we had a new player( and that’s me saying this loosely) in mambo who was just bad.
That was more trolling then anything else though. Most newbies aren’t too great though or quiet usually. Rax is either a natural or if I had to guess at least studied our games beforehand to better understand the game.
Which if that’s the case a lot of respect there. We really need more people around here so even better if they can actually play or at least have the desire to learn.
Like honestly I won’t even lie. I’m surprised I did so well this game as I usually make pretty bad plays. I said it earlier but I really do genuinely play just so activity can increase a bit here and at the end of the day it’s usually still fun. I’ve definitely learned some good stuff for once that will help with future games though
I just can't see Wiisp/Lore as scum, the interactions just wouldn't make sense to me (the double leading wagon, Z25 pushing it as hard as possible D1, the lack of eyecatching interactions with Poy, Lore trying to scumhunt, etc.). So it would leave Raxx, Ran, and you
as it is right now I'd do Raxx>You>=Ran
but I need to reread the thread to recheck Ranmaru because finding out Xivii didn't actually clear him is a ****ing pain
Raxx is due to many small bits like oportunistic votes and the fact Poy kept insisting on asking their opinion on each other (Raxx and Z25) during D1 mainly
You is because I feel like you're been taking a somewhat passive aggressive posture, but it seems you're more interested in actively scumhunting thi phase which is nice
I can also kinda see UP panicking and wanting mambo replaced asap due to him possibly being able to implode the scum team with the noobish trolling, but idk if he just considers mafia sportsmanship important overall or just when his ass is on the line (meta about it would help k pls)
Ran I gotta rethink some stuff
I feel like I need to see how Z25 and Ranmaru reacted to the fake green check to see if I can interpret some of his most recent stuff, but I had a small case on him during early D2 that I might revisit later on today
Wiisp didn't have enough content for me to want a flip from them yet. UP meanwhile had both enough content and enough subtle scumtells that I thought they were a worthy flip.
Wiisp didn't have enough content for me to want a flip from them yet. UP meanwhile had both enough content and enough subtle scumtells that I thought they were a worthy flip.
Deadline is today. Kinda crawled up on me honestly.
Vote: UP
Him manifesting only after a wagon began on him to defend himself and point fingers at Ran and Kary who are conveniently the two people targeting him the most, really doesn't leave me confident in him being town.
I'm not a mind reader, when you say something vague like "subtle scumtells" how am I supposed to know what you mean?
If it is the same thing that you said at the time, then I will explain my problem with that.
Him manifesting only after a wagon began on him to defend himself and point fingers at Ran and Kary who are conveniently the two people targeting him the most, really doesn't leave me confident in him being town.
First of all, I don't think Ranmaru was really targeting Poyzin at all. He just voted him and mentioned him as a possible lynch.
Secondly, Poyzin's approach towards myself and Ranmaru was completely different. He ignored my points against him, and only mentioned me once. Whereas Ranmaru he quoted multiple posts of, and basically made a big case against him.
So what I want to know is, what is the reason that made you vote Poyzin here? I want you to walk me through your thought process.
Because from the way that you described it at the time, it just doesn't seem accurate to what was really happening in the game.
They started the game with really solid rational positions, and they've been extremely organized
Those are usually characteristics of the person having a good game
That being said, it's mostly NAI and this case in particular feels shallow to me tho. I think I mentioned not feeling much depth in Raxx's posts aaaaaall the way back to the meme chart iirc
I liked Rax's initial analysis, but I started to wonder if they did so to get us off their back. At this time it seems like Rax doesn't have the motivation to do the other ISO's, which makes me think they are having a hard time faking content. I re-read and noticed some inconsistencies with their Day 1 play.
Easy Question (185) Liked a post about Z but hadn't spoken up yet, had to be prompted (214) afraid to put a vote on Z (447) Reads with analysis (565), Doesn't vote Ex light after stating a strong dislike (887) Response to question isn't actually an answer but their stance on question asking. (903)
Overall, Raxxel has had a lack of presence multiple times in the game. Through Day 1, and in Day 2 when Z was hit with the guilty. They have analysis, but that's all they are doing. They don't do much with their votes, and have some inconsistencies I will show in the next post.
It's late right now. I have to say that void and Mamboo's exits have been a bit disruptive. I need to give this thread another read through. But Z25 is definitely, by process of elimination, on the scummier end of the spectrum. Lore WAS my scummiest read, I legitimately thought they were playing up their irritation towards the haikus. But clearly they were actually angered. The alignment of whoever takes his place won't change, but I have to reconsider my read on that slot now.
I need to read Pythag's content once through again. They're very null to me at the moment.
I think Z's entrance isn't strong. I think his point of osie's format being used to avoid talking too much is definitely a stretch. However, I don't think it's indicative of too much right now, given this is early game, there are going to be some awkward interactions between towns trying to feel each other out. I doubt Z intended to commit to scumreading osie, at least not on this alone.
Every quote you just put definitely had content and meaning behind it, though. Short on words, yes, but the words they did choose conveyed the message just fine. Especially the last quote where they call out Xivii.
Also, @Mamboo07 , please take time to answer questions in early game. Currently, given I think this is your first game and I know how you are outside of this, I'm reading you as newbie town, but you need to pipe up or you'll become the focus of town and scum alike given how both parties enjoy picking on silent players.
Z25 and Lore are both doubling down on their dislike of Osie's haiku format. From what I've read, Z's reasoning is at least fair enough, though I think he is overselling how valuable a word count is. Personally, I think someone posting a paragraph of word salad that ultimately offers little in the way of actual content is far more anti-town than someone bringing content in a short and concise format. It's true that the less you say, the easier it is to not slip up as scum, but this reasoning isn't strong enough in my opinion, especially in the face of osie doubling down on their speech pattern. A scum player would more likely try and appease this early into the game. However, despite me disagreeing with Z's attack on Osie, I'm not getting a strong scum read at the moment from him. This early into the game, I can't blame him for going after the speech pattern of someone since he has little to go on for anyone else.
Because honestly I'm not sure about that, I think that would be WAY too obvious. No way a scum duo would want to attack the same person early game and risk association with each other like what is happening right now. As it stands it's one or the other to me.
Funnier definitely gives off Rajam in my first mafia game vibes to me. Lacks presence in early game, does just enough to skate by in the first day to not be outright called out for inactivity. Definitely not liking this slot.
And for those without context, Rajam along with FrozenFlame were both werewolves in a multi-faction game. They both survived to the very end and taught me a valuable lesson in not voting hastily in endgame.
It's late right now. I have to say that void and Mamboo's exits have been a bit disruptive. I need to give this thread another read through. But Z25 is definitely, by process of elimination, on the scummier end of the spectrum. Lore WAS my scummiest read, I legitimately thought they were playing up their irritation towards the haikus. But clearly they were actually angered. The alignment of whoever takes his place won't change, but I have to reconsider my read on that slot now.
I need to read Pythag's content once through again. They're very null to me at the moment.
It's late right now. I have to say that void and Mamboo's exits have been a bit disruptive. I need to give this thread another read through. But Z25 is definitely, by process of elimination, on the scummier end of the spectrum. Lore WAS my scummiest read, I legitimately thought they were playing up their irritation towards the haikus. But clearly they were actually angered. The alignment of whoever takes his place won't change, but I have to reconsider my read on that slot now.
I need to read Pythag's content once through again. They're very null to me at the moment.
I'd like a cote count first. I'm pretty sure Z is close to being lynched and we still have a few days before the deadline hits. I'd like to give us time still to talk more before we lynch someone, especially with two replacements on the way.
Okay. I've compiled a list of notes over a majority of the pages. I'm going to put them behind a spoiler.
Ranmaru:
- First post (#113) is a wordless vote. It's beginning of the game, but still the lack of conversation and them opting to vote without prompting further discussion in contrast with everyone else is notable.
- Notable effort to help newcomer Mamboo find their way in their first mafia game (#119). Given my experience with guiding hands when I was newer, this is less town than it may seem. Lore similarly helped me in my first game only for them to be scum.
- Claims that their effort to help Mamboo is non-alignment indicative (#125). Ultimately, rather town. Being unafraid to state that their post held no implications of being town means they feel confident in their town status as is.
- Ranmaru questions some of osie's posts (#147). Good questions that I felt similarly about, especially the questioning of TMI and Mamb=town. Town vibes.
- Ran votes for Osie (#173). With context, this reasoning is pretty solid and agreeable save for his first point about the 127 post which he later rectifies with an unvote (#179). Town vibes, one of the first real votes of the game.
Utopian:
- Their first callout is towards Xivii (#117). They believe Xivii's humor is forced. While I believe UP's callout amounts to little, I see it as town ultimately as UP is trying to start some sort of scum analysis.
- UP makes another prod, this time at Ranmaru (#120). They challenge their town legitimacy. Ultimately, this is some rather weak pressure. Null-scum feel from this.
- UP follows up on this by soft pedaling a little (#123). They claim that they were just keeping Ranmaru in check so as not to let them get comfy with Mamboo to avoid being scumread. Obviously, them backing away on pressure doesn't give me confidence in their town status.
- Asks osie about how they feel about the game thus far (#141). Very safe and general question. Null to null scum vibes.
- UP responds to Xivii (#149). This post refutes some of Xivii's points without being too defensive. I especially like that they repeated my sentiment towards the first post Xivii cited. Town vibes.
- UP responds to osie's mamboo town quip (#151). Good reasoning behind their town read on Mamboo. Town vibes.
- UP responds to Z's scum analysis (#188). I basically agree with all of this. Plus the point about Osie's vote being the first to be based on evidence is good. Town vibes.
- UP continues questioning Z's focus on format rather than content (#198). I have little to say here, it's good questioning that keeps discussion going, especially on the first rather consecutive and consistently scummy set of posts. Town vibes.
- UP asks Mamboo a set of questions (#200). Really null on this one, very safe post.
- UP responds to Z and the question callout (#210). Good pressure on Z regarding his stance on the Osie Xivii callout and the haikus. Response to the question callout is lacking though. Mamboo barely participated, there was no way they could answer two of these questions with their lack of experience. therefor they do little even in the way of RQS. Null.
Osie:
- First callout post goes towards Utopian (#127). Here, Osie definitely follows a similar thought process as me, and calls out how weak this pressure is. Definitely town vibes.
- Osie takes issue with Xivii's UP callout as well as responding to UP's question (#145). Their reasoning doesn't quite line up with mine though. Their answer comes as expected. Null vibes.
- Osie responds to Ran's questioning and expands on their scum lean towards Xivii (#155). Little to say on this honestly. I've used the pace control reasoning behind scum reads as both a town and scum player in the past. It's kind of an easy accusation to throw out. Null to null-scum vibes.
- Osie basically drops a content bomb (#288). Fantastic post, only complaint is that it's a pain in the ass manually looking for those post stamps that are cited. Towniest post in the game.
Funnier:
- I initially hated this entrance (#136). I'm still not a big fan of it, but I can see that while there is a declaration of inactivity, it's mostly in jest which is helped by them starting by voting for their friend. Null.
- Funnier responds to UP's question about him being town (#186). I wasn't even going to include this but at this point funnier has had one note. Anyway this post is useless. Scum vibes.
- Funnier responds to Pythag (#274). I like this post, I like that Funnier is actually expanding upon his vote for Ex. A random Lore town read, which, this early, is fair. Null town.
- Funnier gives thoughts on Osie (#329). I have mixed feelings. I think that his reaction to Osie's read feels town, doesn't feel defensive and more just confused. However, this implication that he can't be read because we don't know him yet is silly. Meta is indeed a huge part of mafia, but it's still absolutely fair to judge one based on their standalone actions. Null scum.
Xivii:
- This one hits quite hard (#143). Xivii goes in on Utopian both for their callout of the joke vote and their refusal to address Ranmaru. I have mixed feelings on this post. I feel their response to the joke vote callout is irrational and overly defensive. However, their point about Utopian attacking Ran is great and gives me town vibes with how they willing redirected UP's accusation to themselves. Their point about aggression is a mixed bag for me, because ultimately UP is not being that aggressive, although I feel that is to UP's detriment in my eyes in terms of their town status. What bothers me especially is that Xivii cites a post from UP that really doesn't even have to do with the game, as it's speaking to someone outside of it. Saying null doesn't really help summarize my thoughts on this post, because it is a big one. The aggression and joke callouts give off null scum vibes to me, but the Ranmaru callout-related part is very town to me.
- Xivii lays out their current scum reads (#163). I found Lore and Z25 to be especially interesting choices given they hadn't posted yet. Xivii later justifies this with process of elimination later (#191). Null town vibes.
- Xivii without prompt defends Osie (#176). Gives context to Osie's actions. Definitely a town move, scum would just let Osie get tunneled, unless Osie and Xivii are scum mates. Even still the reasoning is very solid.
- Xivii defends Osie further (#222). Null town. I agree mostly with these points, only thing is that Ranmaru absolutely needed clarification for those said two points.
- Xivii votes Mamboo (#225). Yeah. It's a safe vote but yeah. Null town.
- Xivii switches up their vote to Z (#262). Makes sense since Mamboo is getting replaced and Z is really wobbly right now. Also some unprompted seer reads. And a sorcerer read on Pythag. Just generally proactive, town behavior. Null town.
Z25:
- Z comes into the game answering Lore's scum read question (#187). Z throws out that he does not like Osie's haiku format, and finds it to be a means of posting as little as possible. I don't agree with this reasoning at all, and while I see it as still some early game prodding, it's still the biggest stretch thus far in this game. Null scum vibes.
- Z responds to UP (#192). While it's not too defensive and overall does make his previous callout smaller and less brash, his reasoning still falls short with his focus on the haikus. Really weak contribution, ultimately gives scum vibes.
- Z kinda goes off the rails a bit at (#202). I wouldn't say they're doubling down on a scum read, but they are doubling down on this stance towards Osie's haikus. The finger pointing towards UP's vote really doesn't help. A bit overly defensive. I will say however, to be this stubborn towards this view point and not immediately cave tells me either Z is legitimately town and is confident enough in his town status that he will stand behind what he has said, or he's scum and has decided that backpedaling now would just make things worse. Null scum.
- Z calls out UP's questions (#203). This... is kinda how I feel about the post. Two of these questions are definitely not something Mamboo could answer as an absolute newcomer. Question 3 is the only really plausible one. Null town.
- Z expands on his reasoning in response to Xivii's defense of Osie (#218). I can now kind of see what he was saying here. Osie's initial callout of Xivii did lead to some confusion, so it is true that the format sometimes struggles in giving full context to observations or allegations. This is somewhat inconsistent to what he was saying before however. Null.
- Z continues his conversation with UP (#225). His point about answering questions would be more fair if he wasn't firing back so aggressively to make his point. Still, mostly reasonable post. Null.
- Z applauds Osie (#298). Not immediately hopping aboard the Lore scum wagon definitely gives off town vibes to me. Null town.
Lore:
- I'm kinda going to sum up their posts instead of going case by case because their content is focused on one thing, aside from a callout on me speaking to Mamboo, which felt like a little bit of a stretch. Definitely was the scummiest player to me by a long shot, basically was Z's content but worse given their utter refusal to see past the format of Osie's posts.
Pythag:
- FINALLY MY MAN COMES IN HOT, ONLY PLAYER BESIDES Z TO HAVE BEEN IN ALL THREE GAMES SO FAR WITH ME (UP HOSTED JUNGLE MAFIA BUT DIDN'T PLAY IN IT) (#258). Does some poetry of his own, with an interesting take going against the current popular opinion against Z. Unfortunately, this post offers not a whole lot of actual reasoning behind the current reads. It is still early game though. Null.
- Pythag pressures Funnier (#263). Definitely a needed bit of attention towards a player that's not been under enough scrutiny. Null town.
ExLight:
- All I'm going to say is that I hate #383 with a burning passion completely unrelated to scumhunting. Damn you. Anyway null town.
So, reads on everyone...
First is that Osie is definitely the most town to me. Kept their composure through all accusations, and has been a consistent contributor to scum analysis.
Pythag is null to me right now. I do agree with some of his moves. I think UP has been a bit scattered. That said, other reads I feel give scummier players way too much benefit of the doubt.
Ranmaru is town/null town. I don't think it's out of the question that he could be scum, but he's been good at asking questions, especially towards the more popularly town players.
Xivii is town. Though they started kind of rough in my opinion, they've been consistent and have made some very significant posts this game.
UP is null town. They've had posts that are questionable, like the Mamboo questions, but they've also been great in noticing behavior and pushing for more discussion. I especially have enjoyed their prompts towards me to speak on others. They COULD be scum, but I feel safe about this slot.
ExLight is null. They appear much later in this thread and I've been at this for hours, so I apologize for not having much to say on them right now. I will revisit this slot,
I can't give any impressions on Mamboo's slot. It's been as good as inactive. Null I guess.
Funnier is null to me right now. I like some of their posts, but they've also made some questionable points, I especially did not enjoy their start, nor the
Z is null scum to me right now. Rather inconsistent with his reasoning to dislike the Osie haikus, and ultimately hasn't contributed much beyond refuting others. He isn't irredeemable by any measure but he needs to do more in the way of scum analysis to convince me that he isn't the pick for today.
Lore was my scummiest pick. I'm not entirely sure how to judge this slot now though. Null scum???
Since your here, what do you think of wiisp based on their posts since you were also on the lore wagon and wiisp doesn’t seem to understand the wagon or why it’s still going. How’s that look in your eyes?
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the moment. I assume they've yet to completely read through the thread and understand the interactions that have currently landed their slot in the position it is in. It feels unfair to be judging someone's slot based off its previous occupants actions that they had no control over, but said actions are still relevant since they were taken with the knowledge of that slot's role.
There's levels to defending yourself. You can provide reasons why someone is wrong without necessarily attacking them.
Anyway, it's getting late.
One thing I want to do though.
Unvote
Vote Pythag
Though as I do this, I want to ask @osieorb18 something: Are you interested in this wagon because Pythag is your scummiest choice, or because a flip would be helpful to further solving the game? For me, it's the latter. While Pythag is definitely on the latter half of my town/scum reads, I'm more interested in doing this because his reads have differentiated from others so much so that a flip would give possibly some much needed context.
Except that I wasn't trying to help people read me right then. I know the question was obtuse.
My problem with read lists is how they're freaking easy pickings for mafia to use, especially when it's a D1 reads list that means jack squat.
Town-ish
Kary - I just freaking like the guy, I like how he plays the game
Exlight - ironically I find his play much more town than scum
Raxxel - Good conclusions, I dig it.
Wiisp - This one may not deserve to be here, a read based off of another players meta is hard.
Meh ish
Xivii - I want to believe he's town. Something in me prevents me from going all the way though.
Ranmaru - Similar. Ran's play is keeping with how I've seen him play other games, but nothing is pushing me exactly into it.
Osieorb18 - looked more pro town at the start of the day.
Funnier - seems capable, when he's not getting into a side chat with Exlight.
Scum-ish
UtopianPoyzin - I like Kary's vote on UP and his reasoning. I also find his defense of Ex...strange?
Z25 - not a fan of his reactions, I liked him earlier in the day.
Deadline is today. Kinda crawled up on me honestly.
Vote: UP
Him manifesting only after a wagon began on him to defend himself and point fingers at Ran and Kary who are conveniently the two people targeting him the most, really doesn't leave me confident in him being town.
This just outlines that, Rax has been reactive rather than proactive. For example, they state they'll be doing a reads list later but it doesn't come until another night. They are sitting on Lore/Wisp without talking about it, and Z has to ask them to comment on it. That is when they say that they are giving Wisp the benefit of the doubt, but they don't move their vote. They mention Z being scummier than Lore, yet when there is space to join the wagon, they don't join it. Yet when there is a Pythag wagon, the same size, they join. Yet again, today we have Rax making a promise to give analysis, but they are taking quite sometime and it makes me think they are having a hard time faking content.
ranmaru
I believe yesterday you asked who I would vote for between Kary and Wiisp.
Between the fact that I am equally as pissed as they are that you guys actually let Z25 go another day, and that this interaction and others between the two could have been behind a scum PM, my vote would be for Kary. We're killing Z today and that's final though. If nothing else they're still an active vote. We're much better off not giving scum free town kills.
Vote: Z25
One other thing to start off this phase though, in case Hunter might be thinking of claiming, don't.
ayy, back home finally
yall so quiet, are ya trying to stay on page 69 forever that's childish lmfao
Hmm, I reread my case against Ran D2, I think he's the pretty fine among the ones in the PoE.
Some of the points are still a thing, but not exactly any eyecatching reactions to the fake cop check, and he seems to be putting a lot of effort in scumhunting. I think I'm fine with my Raxx > Kary >= Ranmaru > Wiisp order.
I actually wonder if it would've been a better play if Xivii didn't tell us the result was fake, if Ran were scum he'd survive N4 which would be super weird, and if he were town scum would be kinda forced to kill him to get rid of a "confirmed" town.
Raxx seems to have lost some of their composure along D3, and didn't engage much during D2 except when poked to do so, which makes me a bit more confident on their lynch. I kinda want to see them engaging in a quick exchange of messages so they don't have time to think properly, that should help revealing their real thoughts.
Rax because they are suspicious. You after Rax because you aren't town telling as much and poe. Ex because he has connections to Z yet also was set up in a way to be lynched later with Pythag. Wisp last because he was spewed.
I'm talking about the quote I reference to you earlier, Pythag. That's why I'm putting him there. Also, Z pushed Lore hard, so I'm putting stock into that.
The fact that Z is proposing an if Ex town, then pythag scum scenario indicates that Z was aware that Ex would flip town, as he's setting up a potential route to scumread pythag in the future.
Spewing - Used to denote when someone has inadvertently given away information about who is or is not a member of his/her scum team. Often, people will do so-called "spew rereads" of dead scum to find out who can and cannot be members of his/her team.
That seems to point to Z's case on Ex/Me.
That actually makes me think Ex is clearer than Wiisp. I don't know why I keep forgetting about that quote!
Raxxel feels like a slam dunk here though. Their start was good but then they just fell off a cliff. Even their votes on D1 were a bit sketchy, for example "I'm voting Pythag because his opinions are unique and therefore lynching him will somehow give me some useful information"
After that I'm most paranoid about Wiisp. Their tone seems townie enough but I don't have a great read on them.
