Sorcerer's 11 Open

[ExLight]

yea so
I'm getting lost the more I read the thread

Are we defending Xivii for some reason or? Wisp removed him from the lynch pool, and Py is putting them in a team with Ran and Osie who are being quite townread by some members

To me 90% of Xivii's posts make no sense and him defending that a Sorcerer shouldn't die D1 is SUPER weird and in the end everyone seems to just have shrugged it off

 

[osieorb18]

This feels awfully like omgus lol just because he's being unreasonable about your haikus?

Maybe a little, but realistically i was looking at their reactions and sorting based on that more than the fact that they voted for me.

Explain

It was one of a few moments, but I really felt stuff like "I was looking at your off-site games for meta reasons" was more likely to come unprompted from town.

What on earth is the purpose of already thinking about LYLO on day one

Like honestly

It's just how I sort people sometimes. I think "Are they scummy enough that I want to see them eliminated Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, or LyLO, LyLO+2, LyLO+4..." It gives me an idea of what a safe game-flow is assuming my read on someone doesn't change much.

I know its a lot to ask and blah but is it in any way possible for you to rewrite this post in plain English cause the haikus start getting really hard to read after like the fifth one and there is a lot of information stuck in those syllables that I'm not quite following

Maybe specific parts.

 

[osieorb18]

I want to host a game that is all post restrictions.

I've also done a bit of that outside of just haiku, though not entirely so. I had a game with a myriad of funny subgames and a few post restrictions. One of my players had to speak in capital letters, a role involved rock-paper-scissors...

 

[osieorb18]

You seem like a really scary person tbh

Gotta go with

 

[Xivii]

xivii, why am I town all of a sudden?

Your response to being lynched has been calm and collected. Your reaction here,

So when i flip town, will you just go on to xivii?

I can't for the life of me figure out what he's doing here.

feels really natural to me because you've had me as null to town for while. This feels like a genuine gut reaction to being confused about my play. If you were scum, it would only make me look better on your flip.

I initially thought you were sorcerer because your reads were opposite of mine and it seemed like you were indirectly defending those I thought were scummy (mainly Z25) by going after those who were pushing them.

 

[osieorb18]

I answered this once before but I've got a better grasp on them now and basically where I'm at is GOOD PLAYER

Clearly very adept and experienced and I certainly hope they're town cause I dont see them getting caught here there simply isnt enough data

If I actually wanted to form a read I'd need two town games and two scum games from them to skim through and ponder and analyze and aint nobody got time fo dat so I shall sit here and be wary and hope others are doing the same

Reads as person you do not want to mess with and has even more power than usual among strangers who are more likely to blindly accept their wisdom

The content is nice the reads are nice but its all immaterial to me because this is someone who could fake that

Sure, if you'd like.

I don't have recent scum games, though...

So I can give you old scumgames and recent towngames. Let me know.

 

[ranmaru]

I am not giving Xiivi a pass, today I will focus on giving an updated reads list upon a re-read.

 

[Pythag]

yea so


Are we defending Xivii for some reason or? Wisp removed him from the lynch pool, and Py is putting them in a team with Ran and Osie who are being quite townread by some members

I'm not putting them in a team necessarily, I just group them in there. Certainly I don't think xivii is partners with anyone. z asked how I see the game / thoughts on the game. That's how it groups out in my mind.

Yes and I don’t believe you’ve answered it

I did, but in a more tongue in cheek way.

probably a better way of wording it is this :
I'm always cautious to groups of people doing anything, and don't like getting caught up. So typically I kick against majorities, because nagging thoughts tell me 'it can't be that simple.'


It's not a good meta.
I've been trying to grow as a player, but that's proving difficult.

 

[Xivii]

I'm not
I was just annoyed that outta nowhere he had a scumread on me that he never hinted before that was mostly parroting
and never tried to interact with me to solidify/elaborate his views

But he didn't have a scum read on you. He was just freeflowing voicing his thoughts on you after I asked him. This seems really forced and disingenuous. Pythag has stated that he wasn't scum reading you necessarily, and I believe Osie also stated this interpretation.

 

[ExLight]

feels really natural to me because you've had me as null to town for while. This feels like a genuine gut reaction to being confused about my play. If you were scum, it would only make me look better on your flip.

I initially thought you were sorcerer because your reads were opposite of mine and it seemed like you were indirectly defending those I thought were scummy (mainly Z25) by going after those who were pushing them.

lol

I'm actually fine with moving my vote to Xivii since he started pocketing Py as soon as he suggesting putting Xivii in the chopping block if he flipped town

 

[funnier6]

Like I said, I think it's more likely to have come from scum. It's just hard to see town reacting that way to the "provocation" whereby Osie called them scum failing at ML

ML?

I'll read this tonight I guess. ranmaru who's mafia?

Hi nice to meet you I'm funnier blah blah blah

You know anyone here?

Because it's exactly what I was thinking, and having been scummates with Raxxel, I know he has a hard time thinking this way as scum.

Good to know

. Lore, voted in a manner which is anti-town, but also against the interests of scum, and he stuck to his direction after you posted the long haiku.

Caan you elaborate on how his manner was against the interests of scum?

 

[osieorb18]

I answered this once before but I've got a better grasp on them now and basically where I'm at is GOOD PLAYER

Clearly very adept and experienced and I certainly hope they're town cause I dont see them getting caught here there simply isnt enough data

If I actually wanted to form a read I'd need two town games and two scum games from them to skim through and ponder and analyze and aint nobody got time fo dat so I shall sit here and be wary and hope others are doing the same

Reads as person you do not want to mess with and has even more power than usual among strangers who are more likely to blindly accept their wisdom

The content is nice the reads are nice but its all immaterial to me because this is someone who could fake that

Also, this reminds me of when someone asked me (not during any game) what I thought of them as a player and I talked about a lot more.

You're in that category of people who fly under the radar enough for me by not being frustratingly terrible or amazing. You're in the more experienced and less lurky half of that category, though, so the good half. I think a lot of MU and MafiaScum core players also have an over-inflated impression of their own play, and I say this as someone who will readily admit that they really aren't that good of a mafia player in the grand scheme of things. I'm a solid game designer and reviewer, mafia or not. I'm a decent mafia player (but it took a lot of time). I don't have nearly enough patience to deal with the toxicity on the Annheiser-Busch Mafia Sites. I have a LOT of patience for bull****, but when I sit down for a mafia game, I'm trying to relax and I'm not putting up with crap.

I've been playing for just over three years now. In 2019, I reviewed or hosted about 35 games and played in about 10. Out of those 10, my team lost the majority of them. But not necessarily, or even likely, due to my own play.

But yeah, I am experienced. I know my stuff, and I've seen quite a few games. I'm not platinum tier. I'm not really close to the level of AskThePizzaGuy, Newcomb, Voxxicus, Azrael, Ellibereth, Tammy, Nachomamma, or Achromatic, to name some people who are legitimately terrifying.

That said, I'm also still young, though most people consider me to be old in mentality. So make of that what you will.

 

[osieorb18]

@z Are you honestly trying to condemn me for self preservation?

Osie was doing the same thing earlier.
(Something like if I vote for Wiisp, or z, it’s Bs)

I pre-condemned you because I noted that you set yourself up to look like a hypocrite.

 

[ranmaru]

He voted for a policy lynch, and double downed on it after a long haiku. Against scum win condition to put himself in that position. If you need more, I got more into it further in the thread.

 

[Z25]

Here's how I see the game. I see groups of people.

Group 1
Z25 - Wiisp

like it or not you two are linked.
I didn't think either of you is scum.

z25 read exactly like he always has.
So did Lore, for that matter.
Wiisp is fine. He's been active and present.
I do find it interesting that he's on me as almost a policy/self preservation vote, when z25 and osie seem to be very against that.

GROUP 2
Osie-xivii-Ran
Ran joined this group later.


Ran's posting pretty town. I haven't seen anything that pings me, he's trying to get information out there for town. And doing follow up.

Osie - doesn't have the game solved, but is convinced he found 2 scum. Me and Xivii. However, his case on xivii seems to fall apart if I flip town. Misguided townie? idk.


Xivii - looked manipulative in the beginning, but has been asking questions that show me he's thinking. I DON'T understand his desire to kill sorcerer over wolf. At that point why not go for you strongest scum read?

Group 3
Exlight-Funnier6


Ex technically started the wagon on me, and all he had to say was 'oh wow, pythag almost got hammered'
when it looked like there was quite a lot to talk about.
Does he have anything to say about xivii? Or any of the following ridiculous Sorcerer talk?
How does he feel that Osie and Ran feel the have the game solved D1? Do you agree?

on the flip side, I've been liking funnier more and more. I think he's actually trying to figure out what's going on. He hasn't let people get away with assumptions or vague statements. He's had a remarkable amount of follow up.

Group 3 (The loners):

UP
Not in a group, which is strange for how many interactions he's had. I agree with Kary, it didn't look like he was trying to solve anything.
What's become of any of his questions, or his interactions?

Rax
Can't exactly figure out his plays. Not necessarily scummy, but also not necessarily townie. Hasn't pinged me much, I lean townie because I like his questions.

Kary
Potentially lackluster intro, but what he has posted has been fine. He's reading what people are saying and asking followup questions. Like a funnier6 that has a word limit.

Thank you. Osie I could see being misguided in that scenario. I have them as a pretty strong town read, but in the event of one of those two lynches it would be worth a re read to re-evaluate that slot, depending on the flips of course.

As for Xi, I kinda of like and understand their mindset there but it’s not what I would recommend as a play. I believe their idea was that depending on who the sorcerer is, getting their flip would be very telling of who the other two scum would be as sorcerer knows who they are and would likely try to help them. Granted I personally believe that scum is scum and as long as town gets one that’s a win.

I’m getting mixed signals on these quotes because the second and third lines both seemed to refer to the same post

Either way I don’t really like that you felt like responding just to say “this is overly defensive I don’t like it”

Especially when you didn’t compare and contrast to the second post which you apparently liked

The phrase info lynch just always gives me a chill for some reason

I don’t follow your thought process here where Ex is scum if your other guesses are wrong

Yet everybody else is null

How would you describe Pyth’s town notablenees

Can’t imagine why they would, you know me better, if you don’t why should they (except Ex)

Hahahaha an hour or two

I’ve already lost track of how long this blasted catch up has been taking me and I’m not even halfway through the thread

I mentioned this later in the thread from that post I believe. But when I first started games with them they were pretty active and it’s hard to pinpoint when things changed but their activity in games kept varying imo. However I could see this similar to my own thoughts/preferences. I absolutely am not a fan of normal just vanilla setups so I tend to be less active in them, but with an open setup or out more normal games with lots of prs, I love those because it’s a lot easier for me to understand people and make better judgement based on reads. I’m liking this setup for sort of mixing the two together so I’ve been able to do a lot better in playing in a setup like this as opposed to other games where I’ve genuinely been lost in them.

Something like that could maybe be why they are a bit quieter this game, but I can’t really say for sure. That’s just some of the things I’ve been thinking over when participating

 

[osieorb18]

1. UtopianPoyzin
2. #HBC | Kary
3. Xivii (think I am ok with removing this from the lynch pool today, we will see)
4. Z25
5. Pythag
6. Wiisp
7. ExLight
8. funnier6
9. Ranmaru (because Osie likes them, and I have yet to see anything I hate, may change)
10. Raxxel
11. osieorb18

ExLight and Raxxel are both likely town.

I'd consider Poyzin for Sorcerer, and Xivii is a decent lynch candidate, actually.

 

[Xivii]

lol

I'm actually fine with moving my vote to Xivii since he started pocketing Py as soon as he suggesting putting Xivii in the chopping block if he flipped town

Darnit boys he got me! I told you it was a bad idea to try and pocket someone that was about to be lynched!

ML?

Mislynch

I'm in a weird sort of caught up/not caught up phase. I'm trying to keep up with new posts, but pages in the 20s I haven't had a chance to really look over!

 

[osieorb18]

that dues ex machina Rule is interesting to say the least

I wish that applied ALL the time, back in Call of Duty Mafia.

 

[ranmaru]

I'd consider Poyzin for Sorcerer, and Xivii is a decent lynch candidate, actually.

Possibly, but I'd look into Kary before Xiivi, mostly because I feel people would let him slip by even though he hasn't done as much.

 

[ranmaru]

Yet I still think Pythag is the way to go.

 

[funnier6]

Also, this reminds me of when someone asked me (not during any game) what I thought of them as a player and I talked about a lot more.



I've been playing for just over three years now. In 2019, I reviewed or hosted about 35 games and played in about 10. Out of those 10, my team lost the majority of them. But not necessarily, or even likely, due to my own play.

But yeah, I am experienced. I know my stuff, and I've seen quite a few games. I'm not platinum tier. I'm not really close to the level of AskThePizzaGuy, Newcomb, Voxxicus, Azrael, Ellibereth, Tammy, Nachomamma, or Achromatic, to name some people who are legitimately terrifying.

That said, I'm also still young, though most people consider me to be old in mentality. So make of that what you will.

I see

Its the personality is what you've really got going for you at least imo

Though I recognize many of the players you mention idk how I feel about their level of play because I see them on MU where everyone seems to be more concerned about being better more notable more charismatic crushers of souls takers of names you know. So caught up in it as a competition when mafia really isnt a competition. Its a team game after all (I've had bad experiences there to say the least)

 

[ranmaru]

Also, Funnier is moving up to my townlist again. Only slightly, I am curious on his reads and where he'd go wagon wise before developing my read on him further.

 

[osieorb18]

I'd love to have a debate on that if youre game

Dont understand where youre coming from here

Meta is a lot easier to express than gut reads a lot of the time lol

Also many gut reads are based off of meta

Honestly, there's a huge issue in terminology. I like to use the following definitions:

Personality - The person's mannerisms, as experienced over the course of time knowing them.
Meta - The content of previous concluded games.
Gut read - Read based on looking at someone's posts and going off of your internal thoughts, based on your own knowledge.
Meta read - Read based on comparing someone's posts directly to someone's posts in another game, with or without context and experience of and with that person.
Personality read - Gut read based on analyzing appearance and mannerisms and considering your resulting beliefs of their intent and motivation based on how well you know the person.

And that's why I spurn meta reads. Because fundamentally what people call meta reads are usually what I call meta reads, and what people WANT to call meta reads are usually gut reads. Gut reads are legitimate as a primary source. Meta reads are a legitimate tool, if you know the person well and are not using the meta reads as the primary tool in a read, because there's fundamentally way too much wine involved to do that. And self-meta takes this to an extreme.

Gut reads and Personality reads, on the other hand, are how to really play mafia, in my opinion.

And I'm really used to personality reading Wisp.

 

[osieorb18]

I see

Its the personality is what you've really got going for you at least imo

Though I recognize many of the players you mention idk how I feel about their level of play because I see them on MU where everyone seems to be more concerned about being better more notable more charismatic crushers of souls takers of names you know. So caught up in it as a competition when mafia really isnt a competition. Its a team game after all (I've had bad experiences there to say the least)

I've seen all of them off of MU, and it makes a significant difference.

 

[ranmaru]

Mafia is an interesting and in depth game about psychology and murder that you get more nuanced with the more you play both alignments.

 

[osieorb18]

I think Lore would be more likely to rage quit in this scenario as caught scum.

Funnier pointed this post out.

Yeah, okay. I'm likely not lynching Wisp toDay.

 

[osieorb18]

Has anyone ever told you that making things personal in mafia is unhealthy

Many times. I've also told people it, many times. We're all human, it happens. Don't tell Wisp I said that, though.

 

[osieorb18]

It is to make his scumhunting more efficient. In no way is it high and mighty, it is me helping. It is a critique.

I thought about this yesterday, actually, and I remembered that I do a hell of a lot more townsorting than scumsorting. It's just easier because everyone usually has some scumtells even as town.

 

[osieorb18]

I approve more of my choice of avatar with every post I type

I approve more of my avatar with every time that I see that picture. Very wholesome. Lol.

 

[ranmaru]

I thought about this yesterday, actually, and I remembered that I do a hell of a lot more townsorting than scumsorting. It's just easier because everyone usually has some scumtells even as town.

Totally fine and that is a good tool that can lock out scum. For me, I think I'm weaker with town sorting than scum sorting.

 

[osieorb18]

Osie - doesn't have the game solved, but is convinced he found 2 scum. Me and Xivii. However, his case on xivii seems to fall apart if I flip town. Misguided townie? idk.

I've also noticed this.

I'm thinking we maybe should do another CFD to Xivii today, actually. I'm not sure where I'd go after that, but Xivii is bugging me a bit more than you are at this time. But I think I'd also want to see your claim before I decided whether or not to for that CFD. If you already did claim or gave a reason why you wouldn't claim, I guess I didn't see that yet.

 

[ranmaru]

I think we should look at his reads before we reconsider.

 

[osieorb18]

Or do you just make sure to take a harsh tone with anyone that you're suspicious of?

I’d like to know this too mmmm

I definitely do it some. There might be at least a little bit of cover there for my scumgame too.

 

[osieorb18]

I would not

I'm not in a good position in this thread to state one way or the other, though.

 

[osieorb18]

yea so
I'm getting lost the more I read the thread

Are we defending Xivii for some reason or? Wisp removed him from the lynch pool, and Py is putting them in a team with Ran and Osie who are being quite townread by some members

To me 90% of Xivii's posts make no sense and him defending that a Sorcerer shouldn't die D1 is SUPER weird and in the end everyone seems to just have shrugged it off

Py was grouping, not teaming.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't see a reason for modkill, force replace if really needed, simple.

 

[osieorb18]

I'm not putting them in a team necessarily, I just group them in there. Certainly I don't think xivii is partners with anyone. z asked how I see the game / thoughts on the game. That's how it groups out in my mind.


I did, but in a more tongue in cheek way.

probably a better way of wording it is this :
I'm always cautious to groups of people doing anything, and don't like getting caught up. So typically I kick against majorities, because nagging thoughts tell me 'it can't be that simple.'


It's not a good meta.
I've been trying to grow as a player, but that's proving difficult.

I don't know why Xivii would be in a group with myself and Ran, but you do you.

The best way to grow as a player (and as a person for that matter) in my experience is to play and interact both with a large variety of stronger players and weaker players, on multiple sites, and play a lot. Keep an open mind and a pure sense of sportsmanship, but don't shackle yourself to anyone's standards. BE the player you want to be, don't just think "This is what I'm going to try for." Do or do not. There is no try. You'll screw up a lot. It takes time. But when you get there, when you have a perfect game, when the people you once looked up to compliment you as a solid player, it really feels worth it.

 

[ranmaru]

Honestly, when I first played on Mafia Scum, I made a ton of mistakes, got mislynched or almost mislynched for it but I learned from those mistakes. One of the most important ones for my playstyle was 'always follow up your questioning'. Things like that. Also discussing game theory with more experienced players helps as well, become informed on the game.

 

[osieorb18]

Darnit boys he got me! I told you it was a bad idea to try and pocket someone that was about to be lynched!

Irregardless of your alignment, this post is wonderful.

 

[osieorb18]

Possibly, but I'd look into Kary before Xiivi, mostly because I feel people would let him slip by even though he hasn't done as much.

Kary is always in the POE for Day 2 if he is alive at that point.