Sorcerer's 11 Open

[osieorb18]

I was? I don’t recall; what post are you referring to?

What I quoted.

And no, it’s not because I’m “doing what I’m told as scum”, it’s to address the fact that people believe that all I’ve done this game is ask questions, but so don’t believe that to be the case, so I’m putting all of my reads in one location.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

What I quoted.

Eh. I wouldn’t really call that a defense, but you’re free to believe it if you want.

I said that because I was trying to put all of my reads in one place, and I didn’t want people thinking the wrong thing such as me just being an obedient player, in contrast to how I described Raxxel’s later game posts.

 

[Z25]

so I cant ask questions because the answers are in the thread? ok
and I have this enormous amount of pressure on me because of a slot I replaced into, I honestly do not care, I will work at my own pace, and if I I am lynched today, ohh well?

jesus man, like I don't know what you want me to say? do you want me to solve the game right now? will that suffice? I am not a god, and there isnt anyone obnoxiously wolfy

like let me breath

I never said you couldn’t. I get it that’s it’s tough. I’ve been in plenty of bad mafia scenarios myself. I just asked a question as your phrasing sounded like you might have caught up on the thread so I was confused by your response there. I asked a simple question but sorry if that offended you.

 

[ranmaru]

ZZ5: What's your read on Kary at this moment?

 

[Pythag]

I completely disagree. Ex saying that Pythag’s intent was to make him super scummy may be incorrect, at least it is to me. But, that’s ExLight’s interpretation of the events, and doesn’t make him more or less town or scum. I also wouldn’t call it an attack. What it does tell is that Pythag and ExLight are probably not aligned, but that information can’t do many favors on D1 without any flips.

ExLight wanting time “shut down any scum speculation” is your interpretation and you’re free to believe that.

You wouldn’t call it an attack? A very charged and shade throwing response that ends in a vote. He also desires me to be a competing wagon, and is still trying to put shade on me. What would you call it?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Questions are good because they can help you develop reads.

"Why did you do x?" is much better than "Are you town?"

That’s an easy example, you are comparing a good question to a bad question.

I’d say that reads are more vital because they clearly define what somebody believes about the game state, and how it develops as the game progresses. Questions are simply tools to get reads, and the more the better is my philosophy. Gives everybody plenty of material to look over, and I think all of mine have been pretty high in quality. But that might be an overstatement I guess.

Eh. I wouldn’t really call that a defense, but you’re free to believe it if you want.

I said that because I was trying to put all of my reads in one place, and I didn’t want people thinking the wrong thing such as me just being an obedient player, in contrast to how I described Raxxel’s later game posts.

I guess that is kind of a defense sure.

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag, can I have a full reads list?

 

[ExLight]

You wouldn’t call it an attack? A very charged and shade throwing response that ends in a vote. He also desires me to be a competing wagon, and is still trying to put shade on me. What would you call it?

I like the term aggressive defense

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

because his thought of process was with the intent of painting me as super scummy even if he didn't say it out loud

You wouldn’t call it an attack? A very charged and shade throwing response that ends in a vote. He also desires me to be a competing wagon, and is still trying to put shade on me. What would you call it?

What one might call a “hot take”, if you will.

A strong opinion, but not attacking your play style or your character. Just assuming your motives, regardless of the whether you know it to be true or not.

 

[Z25]

ZZ5: What's your read on Kary at this moment?

I don’t really have one. They haven’t given me enough content to form a good read so it’s been pretty null. If it came down to it and I had to hammer in a opinion on their alignment then I would lean more towards town currently. They’ve shown active interest in staying up to date and in looking into posts which is good given the Player they replaced

 

[osieorb18]

What if they are good questions?

Didn’t you earlier speak on how you judge by content?

I mean, there's still something to be said for balance. I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be questions or shouldn't be just reads. I'm saying that usually when there isn't some of both, it means that someone's either trying to not interact by not asking questions or trying to fencesit on people by not providing reads.

 

[ranmaru]

I’d say that reads are more vital because they clearly define what somebody believes about the game state, and how it develops as the game progresses. Questions are simply tools to get reads, and the more the better is my philosophy. Gives everybody plenty of material to look over, and I think all of mine have been pretty high in quality. But that might be an overstatement I guess.

Oh no, reads are certainly important for the game state and to keep everyone giving their thoughts, and making it harder for scum to adapt by having everyone update their reads lists (ordered lists are best). Questions are a tool to that end, but remember there are many different tools that one can use that isn't simply questions. I think I have already critiqued one of your questions but I have mentioned you have had good questions and good points this game.

 

[Wiisp]

poor Lore's spirit was literally obliterated
like I don't condone the emotional explosion in the thread, but we all deal with things differently
regardless of alignment, Lore clearly wasn't having fun

if you push someone over and over till they break, you will only get responses that lead you to believe what you already thought regardless of their true nature

I am not Lore, either talk to me like I am "Wisp" or kindly go do other things
given my alignment and the lack of actual movement, it's possible we are just both town unless you are the lost wolf

 

[Wiisp]

ill go back to lolcatting so I don't get mad again
at least until I find something I am relatively ok with pushing

 

[Raxxel]

hi you're strongly scumreading me and I'm not shutting it down
this argument is a fallacy

You dismissed my initial grievances as it just being the way you play.

...

It's really easy to come up with questions when most of your questions are "Hey Julia, what's your read on Mary?"

It's also a super easy question to respond to. Either:

"I like, totally, like think that Mary is, like, (not) very fetch this game. Like, totally (not) fetch."

or

"I like, totally, don't know, like, what Mary's game really is. She's like, totally, like, mysterious or something, lol."

I agree. That's why I mentioned that bad questions are a scum tell. But, let me give Funnier and Kary another read so I can develop my opinion on them individually.

I completely disagree. Ex saying that Pythag’s intent was to make him super scummy may be incorrect, at least it is to me. But, that’s ExLight’s interpretation of the events, and doesn’t make him more or less town or scum. I also wouldn’t call it an attack. What it does tell is that Pythag and ExLight are probably not aligned, but that information can’t do many favors on D1 without any flips.

ExLight wanting time “shut down any scum speculation” is your interpretation and you’re free to believe that.

Interpretation is a result of a mindset though. I do agree that the inference of being painted scummy itself isn't alignment indicative, but the panic to reach such a conclusion is what makes me consider it scummy. I would much sooner believe that scum would assume the worst in their situation than a town. Not to mention, said interpretation does allege that Pythag is scummy, which I definitely consider an attack.

 

[Raxxel]

poor Lore's spirit was literally obliterated
like I don't condone the emotional explosion in the thread, but we all deal with things differently
regardless of alignment, Lore clearly wasn't having fun

if you push someone over and over till they break, you will only get responses that lead you to believe what you already thought regardless of their true nature

I am not Lore, either talk to me like I am "Wisp" or kindly go do other things
given my alignment and the lack of actual movement, it's possible we are just both town unless you are the lost wolf

Can you tell me what you think of Osie and Z25's slots then?

 

[Raxxel]

I imagine that if you sympathize with Lore that you may then find Z's posts about the haiku play style to not be scummy then? I only ask of your opinion on Osie as well since Lore had a scum read on them and I want to see how you differ.

 

[Xivii]

UtopianPoyzin can you address these two points

I have a scum lean on Poyzin and the other options for voting right now are pretty bad. I can vote for you if you prefer?

2 Things I don't like about Poyzin:

1. Thinking out loud too much. Sharing your thoughts when nobody asked makes me think you're faking it, putting on a show. Example;

2. Being a weathervane, asking for directions. Seems like you're scared to make a mistake and want to just blend in with other people. Example;

@ ran, I'll try to make a bigger post when I'm feeling up to it.

 

[osieorb18]

poor Lore's spirit was literally obliterated
like I don't condone the emotional explosion in the thread, but we all deal with things differently
regardless of alignment, Lore clearly wasn't having fun

if you push someone over and over till they break, you will only get responses that lead you to believe what you already thought regardless of their true nature

I am not Lore, either talk to me like I am "Wisp" or kindly go do other things
given my alignment and the lack of actual movement, it's possible we are just both town unless you are the lost wolf

I don't think Lore was really pushed though. He was ignored, yes, and that's frustrating, yes, but the interaction amounted to him trying to hold a gun to the flow of the thread, and I don't think that his frustration really has anyone to blame but himself.

I also think that it's not realistic to separate the scumread on Lore from your slot, so there's that. But you know how to get out of that. Show that you're so townie that you lose that stain on the slot. Help myself and others to solve the game.

I believe in you.

 

[Wiisp]

I get that every player has their own quirks and personalities that may clash with the traditional behavior of a town player. But stuff like this kinda goes beyond just being attached to a personality. You can be a bit defensive, sure, but Ex actively attacked a player based off a conclusion they jumped to. They in general seem to just want to shut down any scum speculation around them altogether.

so they attacked someone based on their interpretation of said person's posts?
would you like everyone to take a seat on a wall like humpty dumpty till someone gives them a nice shove?
do only wolves defend themselves nowadays?

 

[Raxxel]

Actually, while I'm asking you questions Wiisp, how should I consider Lore's posts in relation to your slot? You mentioned that you are Wiisp, not Lore, but what are your expectations then as to how we treat the posts of someone who shared your slot?

 

[Pythag]

I don't think Lore was really pushed though. He was ignored, yes, and that's frustrating, yes, but the interaction amounted to him trying to hold a gun to the flow of the thread, and I don't think that his frustration really has anyone to blame but himself.

I also think that it's not realistic to separate the scumread on Lore from your slot, so there's that. But you know how to get out of that. Show that you're so townie that you lose that stain on the slot. Help myself and others to solve the game.

I believe in you.

Just so you know, a few games ago, Lore got modkilled for speaking during a night phase to yell at a mafia we had lynched and he was pissed at. Lore was town. This is one of the reasons why I don’t necessarily find his behavior particularly scummy.

That probably won’t change anything for you

 

[ranmaru]

Pythag, I asked you a question.

 

[osieorb18]

I get that every player has their own quirks and personalities that may clash with the traditional behavior of a town player. But stuff like this kinda goes beyond just being attached to a personality. You can be a bit defensive, sure, but Ex actively attacked a player based off a conclusion they jumped to. They in general seem to just want to shut down any scum speculation around them altogether.

ExLight's a newb. Like a floppy new foal, wobbling around on its shaky legs, trying to figure out how to run. You guys are not allowed to lynch him toDay, over my dead body.

 

[Pythag]

Pythag, I asked you a question.

And I thought I responded. I don’t think my phone sent it. My bad.

I responded with a question - do you really think a reads list is that helpful D1? I can almost only think of positives for scum and hardly any for town.

 

[osieorb18]

Just so you know, a few games ago, Lore got modkilled for speaking during a night phase to yell at a mafia we had lynched and he was pissed at. Lore was town. This is one of the reasons why I don’t necessarily find his behavior particularly scummy.

That probably won’t change anything for you

I mean, it does sound like a stylistic personality trait more than something alignment-specific. I've gotten annoyed at people as either alignment. I've called people out as either alignment. I don't think being a human being is alignment-specific.

 

[ranmaru]

I do, I want to know where your head is at.

 

[Wiisp]

osieorb18
This isn't really about belief at this point, this is basically you having a grudge against me like usual
and then you act like you don't

I do not need to prove myself to anyone this game, certainly not you
and I'm not going to be like, "rawr rawr bad cause wrong", because this is a game of mafia, and if you are town as well, you are just as uninformed as me
I think you are being harsh, and that's coming from me, the post-game warrior

you also put this stupid extraneous pressure on me every game we are in for literally no reason, but I am not going to attack you as I did in Polygamist Mafia
If I have to bite the bullet, so that everyone can get on the right track, then so be it

maybe I will find something since we still have a little less than 2 days left, or maybe I won't who knows

I came into a game, and my wim was immediately killed, so thanks
If you are a wolf, good job you did your job, if you are town, shame on you

 

[osieorb18]

And I thought I responded. I don’t think my phone sent it. My bad.

I responded with a question - do you really think a reads list is that helpful D1? I can almost only think of positives for scum and hardly any for town.

I think it's a tool to structure one's thoughts in a manner that usually allows for easier readability. I've heard arguments for why it's relatively meaningless and I've heard arguments for why it's very much not. I personally find that having a readlist as part of my notes usually helps me a lot to keep my thoughts organized throughout a game, in particular games with day phases that last 48 hours or longer.

 

[ranmaru]

Especially since you haven't moved your RVS vote, and I don't know what direction you want to go in besides ZZ5.

 

[Wiisp]

Can you tell me what you think of Osie and Z25's slots then?

Osie stays in a null, out of respect for him I am not going to place him as of yet

Z25 isn't really doing anything super wolfy, I mean he has had some questionable posts, in regards to me replacing this slot, as did Osie
but the lack of wagon movement doesn't give me good feelings about this train, unless he is exactly the lost wolf

 

[osieorb18]

osieorb18
This isn't really about belief at this point, this is basically you having a grudge against me like usual
and then you act like you don't

I do not need to prove myself to anyone this game, certainly not you
and I'm not going to be like, "rawr rawr bad cause wrong", because this is a game of mafia, and if you are town as well, you are just as uninformed as me
I think you are being harsh, and that's coming from me, the post-game warrior

you also put this stupid extraneous pressure on me every game we are in for literally no reason, but I am not going to attack you as I did in Polygamist Mafia
If I have to bite the bullet, so that everyone can get on the right track, then so be it

maybe I will find something since we still have a little less than 2 days left, or maybe I won't who knows

I came into a game, and my wim was immediately killed, so thanks
If you are a wolf, good job you did your job, if you are town, shame on you

Meh. I don't think that's fair. But okay. I'm wanting to see you work with us to solve the game. If you want to take that as me holding a grudge against you, so be it. I scumread your slot prior to you replacing in because the previous person in the slot was scummy to me. I felt that having you replace in would be helpful since regardless of that slot's alignment, your ability to fight through scumreads in games is impressive to me. If the slot is town, then I believe in your ability to show that it is town. If the slot is scum, then I believe that you can at least spread doubt in the minds of some of your detractors (myself included). You're a good player, and I'm not ever about to detract from that. I am not always able to stand up for you being a good player as much as I would like, but I firmly believe that regardless of your alignment.

 

[Wiisp]

And I thought I responded. I don’t think my phone sent it. My bad.

I responded with a question - do you really think a reads list is that helpful D1? I can almost only think of positives for scum and hardly any for town.

I mean responding to a question with a question, doesnt really help us read you
if you believe your thoughts, then why not post a read's list? it helps people know where your head is at
there is no excuse for still being on your rvs vote

 

[osieorb18]

ranmaru

I guess I'm down for considering a CFD at this time. I still have my concerns here and there, but I'm thinking that either Pythag, funnier, or Kary would be where I would want to look for the time being.

Kary and funnier both kinda feel that they don't necessarily have their own reads, Kary more so than funnier.

Pythag had the earlier moments towards which I was concerned, and they have continued to sorta ride the fence for me on gutreads. I think that lynching this slot is the most interesting to me, though not necessarily the most strategically sound from, say, a "Lynch all players who fit into XYZ box" point of view or the like.

 

[ranmaru]

I actually was considering Pythag myself.

 

[osieorb18]

Vote: Pythag

 

[ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Pythag

 

[ranmaru]

I am also starting to have concerns with Kary, because he mentioned that ZZ5 was a bad direction, but didn't do much to give a better direction. His push on UP was not enough, in my opinion.

 

[Pythag]

I mean responding to a question with a question, doesnt really help us read you
if you believe your thoughts, then why not post a read's list? it helps people know where your head is at
there is no excuse for still being on your rvs vote

Except that I wasn't trying to help people read me right then. I know the question was obtuse.
My problem with read lists is how they're freaking easy pickings for mafia to use, especially when it's a D1 reads list that means jack squat.


Town-ish
Kary - I just freaking like the guy, I like how he plays the game
Exlight - ironically I find his play much more town than scum
Raxxel - Good conclusions, I dig it.
Wiisp - This one may not deserve to be here, a read based off of another players meta is hard.

Meh ish
Xivii - I want to believe he's town. Something in me prevents me from going all the way though.
Ranmaru - Similar. Ran's play is keeping with how I've seen him play other games, but nothing is pushing me exactly into it.
Osieorb18 - looked more pro town at the start of the day.
Funnier - seems capable, when he's not getting into a side chat with Exlight.

Scum-ish
UtopianPoyzin - I like Kary's vote on UP and his reasoning. I also find his defense of Ex...strange?
Z25 - not a fan of his reactions, I liked him earlier in the day.

 

[Wiisp]

Mamboo has done nothing really wolfy, nor towny
If you think not giving real thoughts makes someone a wolf, then knock yourself out vote there

Kary comes into this game, and votes Utopian
if they have the balls to vote the top town read of almost everyone, who has the most posts if not the top poster of thread right now, then kudos to them
I think they have asked more questions, then given actual thoughts
there vote is blank, but either alignment could do that
so like idk? he's not really townie, but he certainly isnt that wolfy, probably an ok vote? but thats probably about it

speaking of which
#HBC | Kary
Why are you not voting you scum lean? Pozin?
Why does your vote seem to missing? did you unvote utopia?