Revven
FrankerZ
Topic.
10chars
10chars
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Sooooo.... updating 5.0 official with Ness .PAC? Maybe?
- Thread starter Revven
- Start date
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Yeah... why haven't we done this yet?
and the wolf fix
and the samus jab lock removal
and life itself
and let's be honest no one really plays 5.0 anymore
a beta of a beta is still a beta so we're gonna play a beta that we like more than the last beta cuz it's less beta despite being deemed a beta of a beta of a game that originally seems like a beta so + means more beta or a better beta?
and the samus jab lock removal
and life itself
and let's be honest no one really plays 5.0 anymore
a beta of a beta is still a beta so we're gonna play a beta that we like more than the last beta cuz it's less beta despite being deemed a beta of a beta of a game that originally seems like a beta so + means more beta or a better beta?
Why release a patch for the official when a new set is coming in less than 3 weeks? (According to shanus's topic)
I mean I'm not opposed to it but I'd still like to know...
I mean I'm not opposed to it but I'd still like to know...
Revven
FrankerZ
Really? o_O I.. didn't hear of this.
I dunno if we're going by this anymore with Cape's set but...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255069
I need shanus in here to tell us what's going on with the new set =\
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255069
I need shanus in here to tell us what's going on with the new set =\
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Bionic, please don't make these nightly updates available until there is even a remotely half decent changelist on there.... it just reeks of unprofessionalism. If cape can't even make the time to make a changelist, then the changes haven't been tested long enough. Its nothing you did wrong, but just maintain a more decisive role.
I mean seriously guys?
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
How did this beta take off so fast and look to be the next official set when lots of us hadn't really discussed it and had questions and issues with it. It may or may not be for the better of the game but the issues people have need to be addressed. When Foxy posted his communities issues we kinda brushed em to the side. For example, no one seems to want to address the issue that some of us are having that we find it quite tough to land reliable kill moves with characters that used to have those options (Falcon is a big one)
Either way I agree with Shanus about wondering what you guys are doing. The character changelist from 5.0 was great, mechanics could be debated that they need fixing. Let's fix the 5.0 changelist to work with the new set, balance the 5 or so terrible/amazing characters and call it a day. It's exhausting trying to learn a new set so much and frankly the prospect of a new set with these many UNNECESSARY changes has severely turned off several of my friends and I've seen disgruntled posts around the site.
Why do we need another set that radically changes the face of the game? The one major complaint against Brawl+ is the combo system. To quote cape it either works or it doesn't. There is no real strings and whatnot, (I disagree but whatever). If that is the one major complaint with Brawl+ why do we need so many more character tweaks when NADT and FF in Tumble pretty much solve that problem
Either way I agree with Shanus about wondering what you guys are doing. The character changelist from 5.0 was great, mechanics could be debated that they need fixing. Let's fix the 5.0 changelist to work with the new set, balance the 5 or so terrible/amazing characters and call it a day. It's exhausting trying to learn a new set so much and frankly the prospect of a new set with these many UNNECESSARY changes has severely turned off several of my friends and I've seen disgruntled posts around the site.
Why do we need another set that radically changes the face of the game? The one major complaint against Brawl+ is the combo system. To quote cape it either works or it doesn't. There is no real strings and whatnot, (I disagree but whatever). If that is the one major complaint with Brawl+ why do we need so many more character tweaks when NADT and FF in Tumble pretty much solve that problem
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
To me its just the cluster**** and lack of any organization that this beta takes on. It's come down to really changes on a whim, to the main point that there aren't even documented changes for whats happened. Showing that vision to the public of the mess that is the current process certainly does nothing to help the credibility. Nor does the frequent update process which has been proven from time to time again to only frustrate players rather than help them.
Why are we making the same mistake twice?
Oh yeah, because no-one is moderating whats happening back here. Plain and simple, we should have followed the timeline I put up. Releasing a nightly was fine. But release 4 updates in the past week and a half? Totally unnecessary. The nightly was the proof of concept which could have easily been fine-tuned to an official candidate given enough time. I don't understand the sheer need to rush something out the door to the public when it hasn't even been documented what the changes are (nor why we need to seed another update to the public either)! What is this, Brawl Plusery v2.0 all over again?
Think before you post {updates}.
Why are we making the same mistake twice?
Oh yeah, because no-one is moderating whats happening back here. Plain and simple, we should have followed the timeline I put up. Releasing a nightly was fine. But release 4 updates in the past week and a half? Totally unnecessary. The nightly was the proof of concept which could have easily been fine-tuned to an official candidate given enough time. I don't understand the sheer need to rush something out the door to the public when it hasn't even been documented what the changes are (nor why we need to seed another update to the public either)! What is this, Brawl Plusery v2.0 all over again?
Think before you post {updates}.
OK. And yeah, a decent amount of time last night was waiting for Ryoko to get on to give me the Peach changelist so I can put it on the site, but I gave up.
Edit: I was gonna elaborate on the frequent nightly updates but I think shanus nailed it too. Not so much that I have to organize everything for upload, but those that get on the IRC to WiFi usually desynch (this has happened a lot) and the result is they didn't know an update was released, which makes it annoying on their part as well.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Don't get me wrong, I like reading the opinions of the long time fans, but remember we have some players by the balls guys. Swordplay and Shadic (2 good long time posters) will love Brawl+ regardless. These are the players we need to stop saying 'Well these guys want the changes and we need to appease them.' They will wait for the next set til the end of days if it takes that long. We need to watch out for how we look to new players we want to join and I can tell you we are quickly falling backwards in the eyes of everyone who doesn't live in the workshop.
We need to slow down this set and take more time testing **** here in the Backroom. I thought we agreed that we wanted to be more thorough in our changes. All I ask is that we actually get a date to sit down and discuss this set and mechanics, come to an agreement on them, and then open another topic back here where people can post their proposed changes (hopefully with PACs) and we can test them. I don't live in the IRC and I don't want to have to so I can keep up with this game. Chibo, Greg, and I will give you a world of feedback if you'd just post **** back here before or after discussing it in the IRC.
We need to slow down this set and take more time testing **** here in the Backroom. I thought we agreed that we wanted to be more thorough in our changes. All I ask is that we actually get a date to sit down and discuss this set and mechanics, come to an agreement on them, and then open another topic back here where people can post their proposed changes (hopefully with PACs) and we can test them. I don't live in the IRC and I don't want to have to so I can keep up with this game. Chibo, Greg, and I will give you a world of feedback if you'd just post **** back here before or after discussing it in the IRC.
The Cape
Smash Master
Posting updates on the nightly is how changes get tested and we avoid another Ness fiasco. The site itself even says "This is a nightly, RC1 is still the tournament set" or something to that effect. The nightly is to test ideas and properly get in line the things that would be neccesary for a next official if thats what we decide to do. By properly testing changes we will actually get to a good release candidate instead of another horrific fiasco like RC1.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
You missed the point entirely.
I highlighted the part in red saying I agree a nightly is good.
I highlighted the part in green saying that the whole approach you've been taking to this set has been abrupt, lacking organization (the front page still doesn't even have a correct changelist) and overall unprofessional. There is no need to rush this like you have. In fact, doing so just increases the odds of another ness fiasco instead of preventing one. Didn't you know the ness pac that was in 5.0 was in the wild for like 3 weeks prior to release?
There doesn't need to be any more nightlies. In fact, there really should have only been one.
The Cape
Smash Master
The Ness .pac was out for a few weeks before the RC1 and I recall stating the issues with it even then.
As for the updates, its to fix errors from the coding and get proper testing on the fixes before they are left sitting around. Falcon was the example, nair was overnerfed as was D throw and U throw. All three were polished up to work better.
I dont understand why updating a NIGHTLY with changes to test is such a bad thing, while leaving around a build like RC1 for so long was a good thing? Thing is, we have a stable community now that wont grow until we get a good stable set. We wont get a good stable set until we test these things and clean it up so that everything works right and operates right. Testing is neccesary as are the constant updates to get to a good final set so that we dont have to update anymore.
As for the updates, its to fix errors from the coding and get proper testing on the fixes before they are left sitting around. Falcon was the example, nair was overnerfed as was D throw and U throw. All three were polished up to work better.
I dont understand why updating a NIGHTLY with changes to test is such a bad thing, while leaving around a build like RC1 for so long was a good thing? Thing is, we have a stable community now that wont grow until we get a good stable set. We wont get a good stable set until we test these things and clean it up so that everything works right and operates right. Testing is neccesary as are the constant updates to get to a good final set so that we dont have to update anymore.
Veril
Frame Savant
I agree with what you are saying. In regards to the updates though, you have to give more detail than "throw mixups added", that just makes extra work for me and confuses players. Also, wtf GW.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
I'm unsure of where we are going next, but I do believe we need to release Shanus's 'fixed' 5.0 Ness as soon as we are sure there are no problems. Then we can work on this new set, taking our time, and doing things slowly. 5.0 is a great set and can stand on it's own for more time. The tweaks in the new set can wait until we have the needed testing. What can't wait is the possibility of more tournaments being run by average Ness players.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Cape is not an average Ness player...
Ref is though. See BtL2 results: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255531
But regardless, rereleasing 5.0 with a fixed Ness is not a bad idea. Even if 5.0 is basically dead now.
Ref is though. See BtL2 results: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255531
But regardless, rereleasing 5.0 with a fixed Ness is not a bad idea. Even if 5.0 is basically dead now.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
Since were already close enough to a beefier set just wait for that. And for the love of god this time we gotta completely test it and have proper documentation on day 1. there still isnt all the documentation that we should have for 5.0
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
My B. I thought I remember Greg saying Cape admitted to be an average Ness player.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Cape says stuff like that to make his point sometimes.
Ness isn't Cape's best character, just the easiest one to do well with. He destroyed his entire pool with Bowser. Including Ref's Ness. Cape still would've placed very well without Ness. I got 5th without him and Cape is better than me.
Ness may be the best character in 5.0, but you still need skill behind it to do as well as Cape did. He's no worse than vBrawl MK. Definitely needs fixed though.
Ness isn't Cape's best character, just the easiest one to do well with. He destroyed his entire pool with Bowser. Including Ref's Ness. Cape still would've placed very well without Ness. I got 5th without him and Cape is better than me.
Ness may be the best character in 5.0, but you still need skill behind it to do as well as Cape did. He's no worse than vBrawl MK. Definitely needs fixed though.
CT Chia
Smash Obsessed
vB MK and Bp Ness are too broken for different reasons.