Sonic vs Matches by Anthinus *Tons of stuff* (Updated 8/23)

[Anthinus]

Match some one?

I'd like, but I don't live in US or Canada (My mom does, so when I go to Alberta we'll talk LOL)

*Sigh* When you make a joke for no reason it funny for some weird reason. Anyway, I have been thinking about Sonic worst match ups, and I have a question about it. How is Falco a hard math up for Sonic. Maybe for a coolest contest, he might give Sonic a run for his money. Also, here another WWE joke that is related to Brawl. Someone said the Rock main Ganon. Well, I think he main Metaknight instead. Also, the only person that main Ganon is the UnderTaker.

Well, Falco is cool... But Sonic is cooler IMO. About Ganny and Undertaker, I think the same as you: He spam side B and uses Wario in the same way... and also HHH mains DDD...

New vids added BBC.

Thanx dude! I got my capture card from KITO (at last) and I think I'll upload some vids tomorrow (if real life don't mess things up)

 

[Anthinus]

Sorry about this double post, but is important to tell you all this: If you find any mistakes or you think I can Change stuff or add to the Tutorials post your thoughts.

 

[IceDX]

the Dair Tutorial is Great man

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Nice.


I'm surprised when the text said Don't be afraid of going off the screen or whatever it didn't say Never fear the fall because His World was playing. Cheesy I know but....

 

[Tenki]

This one is kinda obvious, but the angle that D-air sends your opponent isn't strictly 30-60 degrees- it can be affected by DI as well.

Some interesting moves there lol. I like the SDJ (you call it SRJ x.x) > D-air> DJ+B-air idea, or using the non-sweetspot D-air to stage spike.

Also, another interesting thing to note about D-air momentum is that if you pass the "end" of the D-air and tap down to fast-fall, you'll fall slower/be able to go through platforms.

 

[TwinkleToes]

In that new Ike video you were a pretty clear winner but you almost died a few times because you like dair too much as a gimp move. Spring spiking works better and can hit Ike easily when he's going for an up-b.

Oh, and one quick question, I notice you use down-tilt a lot and I'm wondering why you use it. Personally my tilt game is consistent of only f-tilt because I think u-tilt sucks nads and I can't see what purpose d-tilt has that makes it better than f-tilt other than it moving your forward a bit.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Those walljumps+Spin Dashes to get back to FD were great. =)

I'll sure test them when I get the chance.

 

[Napilopez]

I use Dtilt quite a bit when i remember, because it has low knockback from close up and is good for comboing into. Nair combos nice into/out of it.

You don't cease to impress Anthinus. That G&W match was a close call, nice comebackk =P Although I'm not as good of a Sonic as you, against G&W from my experience I would recommend more usage of Uair. I haven't played a G&W in a while, but I'm pretty sure Uair(at least the second hit) outprioritizes his Dair, and I think it does his other aerials too. You may wanna try it out. I definately noticed your changbe of playstyle against G&W, it was much more defensive, so Uair might help against his crazy aerials =P

 

[phate]

I like your style of presenting those tutorials and that helps me a lot. I had no clue how the dair worked. The w-edge tutorial was good too, I should be able to edgeguard much better now.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

After some testing, the walljumps+SD are an easy way of self destructing

 

[Anthinus]

This one is kinda obvious, but the angle that D-air sends your opponent isn't strictly 30-60 degrees- it can be affected by DI as well.

Some interesting moves there lol. I like the SDJ (you call it SRJ x.x) > D-air> DJ+B-air idea, or using the non-sweetspot D-air to stage spike.

Also, another interesting thing to note about D-air momentum is that if you pass the "end" of the D-air and tap down to fast-fall, you'll fall slower/be able to go through platforms.

Thanks a lot Tenki, I'll add that Info in the Info of the vid in youtube.com... If you find more (and this goes for everybody) about dair, tell me please and I redo the vid and add more credits

In that new Ike video you were a pretty clear winner but you almost died a few times because you like dair too much as a gimp move. Spring spiking works better and can hit Ike easily when he's going for an up-b.

Oh, and one quick question, I notice you use down-tilt a lot and I'm wondering why you use it. Personally my tilt game is consistent of only f-tilt because I think u-tilt sucks nads and I can't see what purpose d-tilt has that makes it better than f-tilt other than it moving your forward a bit.

Yeah, I know the spring kills him super easy. I was trying to test dair against him (Aether and Fair gives me probs)... Dude, I love Dair!

About dtilt:
-After it you can "combo" with 1) fair 2) utilt 3) ftilt
-IASA frames, you can shield, jab, grab, jump, ftilt...

I prefer dtilt --> ftilt add more damage than just ftilt. At high % is the same, dtilt, fair, uair, utilt do more damage than ftilt --> chase-the-opponent-and-try-to-shieldgrab-or-dash attack-and-miss...

Ftilt alone have some strong points and I use too. Dtilt is as good as ftilt (they have similar range). I hope this clear your question

After some testing, the walljumps+SD are an easy way of self destructing

Practice, you are very skilled Sonic Orochi. Test like crazy until you don't selfdestruct. I killed my self like 1000 times before I lean how to do it without suiciding. Try this: On the edge, down, jump to wall, walljump, side B (asap similar to a dash dance). Do it until you do it perfectly. It really catch my team members off guard, is worth doing

 

[Anthinus]

Sorry, internet lag made me double post... Wasn't my fault =/

 

[disguy]

Nice d-air tutorial. After watching your matches, I started using d-air more for my edge game. I like your style, keep it up.

 

[Anthinus]

Nice d-air tutorial. After watching your matches, I started using d-air more for my edge game. I like your style, keep it up.

Thanks dude.

I Uploaded 2 more matches against CHRIS. One against IC the other against Diddy. A Bonus with Meta Knight and a Tech vid I did about 2 things I found... I call them Super Roll and SDP Shieldgrab (If they have other names please ignore the ones I use). This can be useful to improve Sonic's mindgames (and gameplay maybe lol)...

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hm. I will look a bit more into this. I'm 99% confident no one has ever mentioned anything like this before so you are the first...

I'm just not noticing anything really "super" about the super roll right now. I'll study it a bit more carefully, but it doesn't seem to increase your range in a meaningful way. I could be wrong though, like I said I'll look into it more.

I am sure however that the pivot grab is a useful tidbit; albeit the efforts required seem to greatly outweigh the small benefit you get from it.

 

[dark_Illusion_hokage]

i tryed the super roll in battle, usually if i try to roll arounf marths sheild breaker i get hit, but i tryed the super roll and ended up right behind him. Thanks for finding this...(waits for the next step in soon to be broken sonic)

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm pretty sure that's old. It looks like the B-reversal pivot grab Tenki showed me the other day. The super roll I got by messing up when practicing that. I didn't notice anything other than it was faster.

TENKI this is the stuff right? If not good find.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah thats it. I was showing Tenki when we played the spindash pivot.
Its pretty interesting to use since Sonic's pivot grab slides a bit so you could end up sacrificing some speed in order to avoid sliding too far away.
With spindash pivopting thats not an issue anymore.

I didn't really notice much of a difference in the super roll's distance.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Is the 2nd tech like... tap direction to do a quick dash -> Spin Dash the other way -> Shield

Is that it? The way you described in the vid was a bit confusing, lol

And about the walljump to SD: I dunno, still thinking it's too risky, but I'll give it another go. =P

 

[FrostByte]

I think the standard pivot grab is better because it has more range and actually comes out faster. With pivot Spindash, there are frames which you can't grab, only shield. So yeah, it'd be a good defensive fakeout to get behind the opponent. Come to think of it, it'll handle spotdodges better than the standard pivot grab.

I'm sure darknes was the first to mention the actual pivot spindash, but didn't touch on it.

 

[Tenki]

OH!! haha

Spindash pivot/grab is what I've been trying to get people to do, except I called it by its more common name: B-reversal

(Run/hold forward) > + [quickly press back]
*B must be pressed slightly before changing direction

But Sonic's can be cancelled so you can press shield then grab.

It's a weird way to confuse or pressure an opponent, and it looks mad twitchy. I like the name. It's much catchier than B-reversal-cancel-grab, though that confuses wannabe Sonic mains so noone knows wtf we're talking about.

The super roll might just be a graphical thing. If you tap forward, delay B for about .2 seconds, then shield+roll, it looks like you have an extended roll, but in fact, you're using the initial dash to boost it a bit first. That could be what you're doing with the 'full dash' super roll. But I gotta admit, it's an interesting feint.

The actual roll distance as soon as you press shield doesn't actually change though :[

 

[TwinkleToes]

^Yeah that's why I said how is this really all that super. I mean, I guess if you play against an opponent that is very aware of what sounds mean what attacks then it might have some use, but visually it doesn't really do a whole lot that simply running and then rolling would have.

And as Tenki said, the actual roll distance remains the same.

 

[Anthinus]

The super roll might just be a graphical thing. If you tap forward, delay B for about .2 seconds, then shield+roll, it looks like you have an extended roll, but in fact, you're using the initial dash to boost it a bit first. That could be what you're doing with the 'full dash' super roll. But I gotta admit, it's an interesting feint.

The actual roll distance as soon as you press shield doesn't actually change though :[

^Yeah that's why I said how is this really all that super. I mean, I guess if you play against an opponent that is very aware of what sounds mean what attacks then it might have some use, but visually it doesn't really do a whole lot that simply running and then rolling would have.

And as Tenki said, the actual roll distance remains the same.

I'm glad the new name for b-reversal suits good and I have to insist with super roll stuff... Please don't get angry with this question but... Are you really sure you don't increase your distance a bit when you SD in a full dash?... If you full dash then SD on stage but near the edge, Sonic will SD off stage... I tested this: if I Roll and Super Roll in the same inicial point I'll end a bit farther with Super Roll... How can this happen if fulldash->SD don't increase your distance?... Help me guys!!!

 

[Anthinus]

Well guys, I uploaded 3 new matches (and 3 bonus matches). I'm super busy and I'll upload less frecuently. But I'll try to Upload more quantity next time.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I saw you go for some wall-jumps when you were recovering. Seemed kind of risky, it's very easy to get edge-guarded off of that no?

 

[Boxob]

Needs more Jeff Hardy IMO.

 

[da K.I.D.]

just watched the new vids... great sonic as always, i still think you are probably the best sonic going right now,(if not, at least the most fun to watch) but if i had to guess, im right up there in your league. but i plan to surpass you soon....
still very fast and very active. i love your style

you could stand to spinshot more to close distance.
it seems that we all need to work on our punishing games tho, from what ive seen the best punishing moves are d-tilt, f-tilt, standing grab, and SH f-air.
d-tilt doesnt have much range and neither does grabbing so if the opponents spacing is on point, those two arent options
f-air can be dodged so it might now work everytime as well.
f-tilt, is the best punisher, and is only a half way decent setup move, we should do it after shielding or spotdodging

 

[Anthinus]

I saw you go for some wall-jumps when you were recovering. Seemed kind of risky, it's very easy to get edge-guarded off of that no?

Yeah is risky, but look the video closer... There was only two wall-jumps: In the first one I wanted to recover using HA, but KITO jumped off stage to Bair/Dair me, then I decided to go below him to spring onto the stage but he waited to stage spike me with Up B. I had no other option left... In tThe second one I was practically dead, wall-jump saved me from doom...

Needs more Jeff Hardy IMO.

I'll try to upload one or two suicidal ones for you...

just watched the new vids... great sonic as always, i still think you are probably the best sonic going right now,(if not, at least the most fun to watch) but if i had to guess, im right up there in your league. but i plan to surpass you soon....
still very fast and very active. i love your style

you could stand to spinshot more to close distance.
it seems that we all need to work on our punishing games tho, from what ive seen the best punishing moves are d-tilt, f-tilt, standing grab, and SH f-air.
d-tilt doesnt have much range and neither does grabbing so if the opponents spacing is on point, those two arent options
f-air can be dodged so it might now work everytime as well.
f-tilt, is the best punisher, and is only a half way decent setup move, we should do it after shielding or spotdodging

Thanks for your compliments dude, I saw your stuff and you are a great Sonic too...

I agree about the punishing stuff. But remember that we have to mix moves up, 'cause if we abuse ftilt it will get diminished and become a predictable move.
Dtilt can be followed by a ftilt/fair, then a grab or dash attack. Tipped dtilt sent people to jab locks, grabs, hyphen smashing, dash attacks, spin dash/charge... An opponent spacing can be hit by the tip of dtilt cause the move moves a bit forward, just lure him with SD cancels or something similar...
fair against an opponent spacing isn't wise, we can use it when they are on air (non-tipped dtilt sets people on air)...
The grabs seems to be more effective when you chase people after a combo and shield/powershield grab them, or after you lure them to attack making an opening for you grab them...
ftilt is the best option as you said. Great, quick move, can hit twice for 11% and good knockback. I'm using ftilt after the first jab now. You know, Sonic's jab combo isn't good and people shield your second jab. So I jab, ftilt to damage/pressure more.
What do you think? Let's work together to make Sonic a punishing machine...

 

[Veil2222]

Just a question but why don't you hyphen smash much? Sonic's is one of the best out there since he disjoints himself off the ground, and it eats shield for breakfast. I know at high percents it's more of a liability, but it's a great approach/punish if they don't see it coming.

Another thing I like to do is mindgame people into not DI/ing sonics Uthrow, either by not chasing, or feign chasing/airdodging so they think they're safe. Once they get to 100% abouts, Uair chains right into up+b Uair (or jump up+b Uair) if they don't DI much. I've seen you use Uthrow-Fair/Bair, so it would just be one more in your arsenal of change-ups.

I was also wondering what you input for your spindash combos, do you usually jump right after the ground hit, and go straight into Fair/Uair, or do you do something else/mix in something else? 'Cause that's my standard for approach when I go for it.

 

[Anthinus]

Just a question but why don't you hyphen smash much? Sonic's is one of the best out there since he disjoints himself off the ground, and it eats shield for breakfast. I know at high percents it's more of a liability, but it's a great approach/punish if they don't see it coming.

Another thing I like to do is mindgame people into not DI/ing sonics Uthrow, either by not chasing, or feign chasing/airdodging so they think they're safe. Once they get to 100% abouts, Uair chains right into up+b Uair (or jump up+b Uair) if they don't DI much. I've seen you use Uthrow-Fair/Bair, so it would just be one more in your arsenal of change-ups.

I was also wondering what you input for your spindash combos, do you usually jump right after the ground hit, and go straight into Fair/Uair, or do you do something else/mix in something else? 'Cause that's my standard for approach when I go for it.

Sorry, for not answer you soon (look at my sign...). I think everybody have different styles, I don't like hyphen with Sonic... Do what you think is good and effective...

I Updated today, lots of matches and an 2 trailes of combo vids... There are more stuff to upload, but I HAVE NO TIME!!! So I'll do it the nemt time I update this thread. I hope you enjoy this new stuff...

 

[da K.I.D.]

still good, it looks like you took my advice to heart. i saw a lot of spinshotting and tilts OOS
one more thing thats great for lots of early damage especially against heavier characters
most people at this point have been trained to auto dodge after our up throws so against people ive gotten into upthrowing them at the begginning of a stock waiting for their air dodge and after they land up throwing again usually you can up throw twice grab them upon landing, and on the third up throw they will have learned to not airdodge, but the thing is that nothing else they can do is fast enuff to get out of the up air that we wanted to hit them with in the first place. thats almost an automatic 42 damage at the beginning of a stock, and if they are heavier enuff (ganon/bowser) you can up air again, and whether or not you get the second up air you can spring through them and down air for another 9 damage
since you play against janus so much. u throw to u throw to u throw to u-air, to spring to down air should be a great stock opener against samus.

anyways, keep up the good work. its always a pleasure watching you. you just need to hit up some tourneys