Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Phoenix_Dark]

Well, that was fun. I wish I could chain grab online, lol. Sorry I had to cut that short. I gotta run out for a bit. Ness has a glass jaw, lol. /SonicPawnch

 

[~TBS~]

clinton, you there? still want to play?

 

[ROOOOY!]

It's 50:50 WITHOUT the CG.
I don't know how pronounced this CG is, but it seems pretty plausable to be abused.
To be honest, the only place in the whole match that Ness has the advantage is when both characters are aerial.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

The cg no matter how minimal the damage is, gives a boost to Sonic in the matchup. It gives Sonic control on stage, and makes spacing that much more important when using Ness.

 

[_clinton]

SonicMaster5...would you please respond to my PM? Thank you ^_^

 

[ROOOOY!]

And Ness has trouble spacing anyway.
PK Fire is his main spacing tool, which is more or less ineffectual completely in this matchup.
And his ground game has very poor range.

 

[Browny]

you know how when people say 'dont get grabbed' against the IC's? that quite a legit strategy since it is possible to do that (watch some of anthers vs lain videos) with thier horrid grab range, slow run and the fact you need both of them there to do anything, not inlcuding solo popo cg lol.

Apply that to sonic, it doesnt work at all. you can, and will get grabbed. its not the fact that it can lead into some decent damage and edgeguards, its that it forces you to pay differently. same with DDD. when i play someone who cant get CG'd (like fox, G&W, mk) i have no fear of attacking his shield since the worse case scenario ends up with me taking 16% from a bthrow and a few pummels. when i play sonic or lucario my approach options are severely limited. SH fairs, nairs, dairs that **** with G&w fox etc get punished horribly by DDD when i use sonic or lucario.

this cg merely forces ness to be a great deal safer in his approach. instead of risking maybe 11 damage from a ftilt oos from a slightly misstimes approach youre going to be taking 30-40 instead depending on where you get caught on the stage. suddely a relatively safe approach like an SH dair (like what simna does) becomes massively unsafe if sonic predicts it and it isnt spaced perfectly.

I never said this cg is game breaking or anything but you can just discount it because its damage is dependant on stage length. so is DDD's but people dont discount that?

 

[PKNintendo]

Yes by a little though. And the matchup was originally 45-55 IMO. The chaingrab just helped Sonic by a bit. You see, Wario (who has multiple grab release problems, that lead into aerials or smashes) still has advantages in those matchups.

1 thing for Ness, don't get grabbed. It's actually not that hard.
And it only gives control in a few stages. Banning FD and BF stops that problem e.ct.

at ROOOOOOOOOOOOY. It's not only Wario, Ness aerial ground game is quite impressive too. If I want to, I can avoid getting grabbed.

I love where you pull those numbers DJ. Ness PK Fire does 50% to sonic. Plus the instant bat that = 96%!

Sonic's grab is average. His dash grab is laggy afterwards, and it can be punished. Im pretty sure Ness is better spacer than Sonic.

Sonic's Ftilt doesn't always deal 11% Doesn't Sonic's deal 4 then 7 %?

 

[Kinzer]

Hey Clinton if he doesn't say anything/you get done with him, I would like to have a go at a Ness player, it's not often that I get to fight Ness' (although it's still mroe frequent than say characters like Fox/The Boozer/ Cap'n Falcon/etc.).

Anyway this sucks, I missed all the talk for Ness, and now We're gonig to go into R.O.B.

Owell, a rough guess with Sonic/R.O.B., it would have to be even if not slightly in R.O.B.'s advantage, but we'll talk about that when Greens gives ust he heads-up.

I like the pace this thread is going at, if we're fast maybe we can get everybody done by the end of January of '09 if not sooner!

Edit: Since I've read all the feedback of the posts pertaining to Ness, I'm willing to go with a 50:50 neutral matchup, I cosign what CITH said "Fu*insert dead link here*ck the CG*"

 

[~TBS~]

sorry, kinzer i got clinton.

 

[PKNintendo]

Oh yeah, at ROOOOOOOOOOOOY. Ness ground game doesn't have terrible range. NORMALLY it does, but SH aerials count as ground game for me. Sonic has poor ground range. (IMO of course)

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ftilt outranges everything Ness has (not counting SH aerials) by a long long way.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

^^^ Which is exactly what I meant, but don't have time to type all of that. It's hard to not see this matchup in Sonic's favor, when Sonic really isn't losing anything in this matchup, and Ness loses quite a few options. Sorry, but Sonic isn't going to get D-air spiked unless he's an idiot. PK fire, and PK thunder aren't as effective as they'd be in most of Ness' matchups. I'm not saying it's anything like a huge advantage. I'd say it's 55-45 Sonic. 60-40 just seems too much. Can't forget that Sonic just isn't very good D: Ness has a great aerial game, but even that gets watered down, when Sonic can punish with his only chain grab. So.. you're basically looking out for bair, and bthrow the whole match. Yay, I'm late. Well, I'll be back later to read the overly nice responses I'll most likely get from Ness mainers.

Arrows were meant to be pointed at djbrowny's post. F you people and your responses >=[

 

[PKNintendo]

Ftilt outranges everything Ness has (not counting SH aerials) by a long long way.

Untrue. Ness bat has more range. AAA combo cancels out ftilt. Yo-yo's beat it out. Stop pulling who knows what out of your @$$ (not meant to be an insult)

^^^ Which is exactly what I meant, but don't have time to type all of that. It's hard to not see this matchup in Sonic's favor, when Sonic really isn't losing anything in this matchup, and Ness loses quite a few options. Sorry, but Sonic isn't going to get D-air spiked unless he's an idiot. PK fire, and PK thunder aren't as effective as they'd be in most of Ness' matchups. I'm not saying it's anything like a huge advantage. I'd say it's 55-45 Sonic. 60-40 just seems too much. Can't forget that Sonic just isn't very good D: Ness has a great aerial game, but even that gets watered down, when Sonic can punish with his only chain grab. So.. you're basically looking out for bair, and bthrow the whole match. Yay, I'm late. Well, I'll be back later to read the overly nice responses I'll most likely get from Ness mainers.

Sonic is losing plenty. He's outranged in the air, and pressured from the aerials. Screw dair, I won't use it against Sonic now that he has that CG. PK fire will just be a punisher, while PKT is Ness longrange approach to attacks. 6-4 is out of the question. Like you said Sonic isn't very good, and 55-45 is abit much for him.

Don't forget it was around 45-55 before the CG. The CG just pushed it into 5-5.
I need more Ness mains!

 

[ROOOOY!]

Untrue. Ness bat has more range. AAA combo cancels out ftilt. Yo-yo's beat it out. Stop pulling who knows what out of your @$$ (not meant to be an insult)

o_0

That's funny, because I'm jabbing in place right now with Ness, and my ftilt is hitting Ness.
So..
And yes, a few of his smashes have a more more range, but they aren't going to come out fast enough. Ftilt comes out after 6 frames, which I have to imagine is faster than any of Ness' smashes.

Whilst you're here, is this list of "commonly used moves" okay that I did earlier?

Commonly Used Moves : (I play a little Ness so here goes)

Uncharged PK Flash for edgeguarding. It can force mistakes just down to the fear factor of it, or it can just damage the opponent, it doesn't really gimp.

Fair, Ness' main approach. It's good though, big range, hurts shields, hard to counter.

Nair, very fast, high priority aerial. A good GTFO move in the air, with high knockback.

PK Fire, used for spacing mostly, but also as a general damage racker, it can be followed up out of if opponent doesn't DI out of it, and can hold people in position for KO's.

Fsmash. Ness' best killer. A little on the slow side, but pretty strong, especially when sweetspotted.

Utilt, for juggling at low percentages.

Bthrow as a broken piece of **** of a kill move, lol.

 

[Boxob]

Sonic has the best grab pummel, if you're able to chaingrab ness, it's ****.

Especially at higher percent, I mean if it's across FD and you start at one end, you can kill Ness with Uthrow.

 

[PKNintendo]

o_0

That's funny, because I'm jabbing in place right now with Ness, and my ftilt is hitting Ness.
So..
And yes, a few of his smashes have a more more range, but they aren't going to come out fast enough. Ftilt comes out after 6 frames, which I have to imagine is faster than any of Ness' smashes.

Whilst you're here, is this list of "commonly used moves" okay that I did earlier?

Commonly Used Moves : (I play a little Ness so here goes)

Uncharged PK Flash for edgeguarding. It can force mistakes just down to the fear factor of it, or it can just damage the opponent, it doesn't really gimp.

Fair, Ness' main approach. It's good though, big range, hurts shields, hard to counter.

Nair, very fast, high priority aerial. A good GTFO move in the air, with high knockback.

PK Fire, used for spacing mostly, but also as a general damage racker, it can be followed up out of if opponent doesn't DI out of it, and can hold people in position for KO's.

Fsmash. Ness' best killer. A little on the slow side, but pretty strong, especially when sweetspotted.

Utilt, for juggling at low percentages.

Bthrow as a broken piece of **** of a kill move, lol.

Yeah, most of those we're common. I may have been wrong about the Ftilt, but you we're wrong about the smash so HA! (kidding) we need more time with this matchup. I would like to request help from my bethren. (Ness mains lol where the hell are they?!)

Let's leave it at blank before they get here.

 

[Browny]

:/

fsmash is bad for KO's. his bthrow, bair and uair are superior in every way. also i dont think utilt is good for juggling. utilt -> SH nair would work better

 

[aeghrur]

Yes by a little though. And the matchup was originally 45-55 IMO. The chaingrab just helped Sonic by a bit. You see, Wario (who has multiple grab release problems, that lead into aerials or smashes) still has advantages in those matchups.

1 thing for Ness, don't get grabbed. It's actually not that hard.
And it only gives control in a few stages. Banning FD and BF stops that problem e.ct.

at ROOOOOOOOOOOOY. It's not only Wario, Ness aerial ground game is quite impressive too. If I want to, I can avoid getting grabbed.

I love where you pull those numbers DJ. Ness PK Fire does 50% to sonic. Plus the instant bat that = 96%!

Sonic's grab is average. His dash grab is laggy afterwards, and it can be punished. Im pretty sure Ness is better spacer than Sonic.

Sonic's Ftilt doesn't always deal 11% Doesn't Sonic's deal 4 then 7 %?

Few things to clear up/need clearing up.
It's kind of hard to not get grabbed against sonic because he's very fast. FD in under 60 frames peoples. Also, no one uses dash grabs, we have 3 kinds of grabs:
Shield Grab
Pivot grab
Spin-dash shield canceled grabs. Those basically make us grab as though we were standing in place, but have some different properties.
Your right about the Ftilt though.
And when did PK fire do 50%? O_O Are we assuming of each other that we don't know how to DI out of it? It's not hard to dodge either. =/

 

[Kinzer]

sorry, kinzer i got clinton.

*roleplaying the Sonic Vs. Shadow Scene*

Kinzer(Sonic): Phew, so far so good in Brawl.

Kinzer: Hey, that's...

SonicMaster5(Shadow): That Blue Hedgehog fellow Sonic mainer again, of all places Forums...

Kinzer: I found you, faker challenger!

SonicMaster5: Faker challenger? I think you're the fake Hedgehog around here challenging Clinton after me. You're comparing yourself to me wanting to fight him first? HA!! You're not even good enough to be my fake get first dibs on him!

Kinzer: I'll make you eat those words Regret saying that and make you eat your own Steak/Ribs!

 

[PKNintendo]

Sonic has the best grab pummel, if you're able to chaingrab ness, it's ****.

Especially at higher percent, I mean if it's across FD and you start at one end, you can kill Ness with Uthrow.

LOL no. It does decent damage, and has average speed but that it's.
It can't kill Ness with an upthrow, and the damage and distance CAN BE MINIMIZED.

Oh and

My Pokemon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Haunter

It's kind of hard to not get grabbed against sonic because he's very fast. FD in under 60 frames peoples. Also, no one uses dash grabs, we have 3 kinds of grabs:
Shield Grab
Pivot grab
Spin-dash shield canceled grabs. Those basically make us grab as though we were standing in place, but have some different properties.
Your right about the Ftilt though.
And when did PK fire do 50%? O_O Are we assuming of each other that we don't know how to DI out of it? It's not hard to dodge either. =/

PKF can't do 50 %. It's a pun on DJ's random number's. Sonic's pivot grab is bad IMO. Range isn't to great. What does the Spin-Dash shield cancel do anyway?

Sigh, I wish SGB was common.

 

[_clinton]

My Pokemon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Haunter

I <3 Pidgeot ^_^

 

[ROOOOY!]

Pardon me.
1. Your doubting Boxob. That's illegal.
2. Boxob is right.

Speed to damage ratio, it's second best in the game. I can't remember second to who though, I THINK it's Lucas.

 

[Boxob]

LOL no. It does decent damage, and has average speed but that it's.
It can't kill Ness with an upthrow, and the damage and distance CAN BE MINIMIZED.

Oh and

My Pokemon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Haunter

It's the fasted three-per-hit pummel. Uthrow should kill Ness around 220 at the most, if you get the first grab around 140, it really isn't that shocking.

 

[SonicX580]

*roleplaying the Sonic Vs. Shadow Scene*

Kinzer(Sonic): Phew, so far so good in Brawl.

Kinzer: Hey, that's...

SonicMaster5(Shadow): That Blue Hedgehog fellow Sonic mainer again, of all places Forums...

Kinzer: I found you, faker challenger!

SonicMaster5: Faker challenger? I think you're the fake Hedgehog around here challenging Clinton after me. You're comparing yourself to me wanting to fight him first? HA!! You're not even good enough to be my fake get first dibs on him!

Kinzer: I'll make you eat those words Regret saying that and make you eat your own Steak/Ribs!

Ha that's a classic scence (Sonic Adventure 2 Battle) I haven't heard that in a while.

 

[Boxob]

Also, haunter is tied for sexiest Pokemon with Scyther. Don't ****ing kid yourself.

 

[cutter]

For a grab pummel, I prefer someone like Kirby's or Lucario's because they can erase stale moves unbelievably quickly.

 

[PKNintendo]

It's the fasted three-per-hit pummel. Uthrow should kill Ness around 220 at the most, if you get the first grab around 140, it really isn't that shocking.

Like it will.

Sigh, you play against CPU's don't you.

You guys are full of it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=86
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=87

It was essentially 5-5 until DJ came in with his made up grab info. Barely any of you has tested this!

Im going with Tenki, since he didn't post 5-5 then go OH GRABZOR 55-45.

Boxob, if you think a simple CG (that can be SGB) deal 140, your truly joking or flame baiting.

EDIT: Even at 140, getting to 220 is ridiculous. Stop posting nonsense.

Haunter is lame looking, it's essentially a ghost with 2 hands.

 

[Boxob]

For a grab pummel, I prefer someone like Kirby's or Lucario's because they can erase stale moves unbelievably quickly.

Sonic's is still better for damaging.

 

[_clinton]

Ness' grab pummel is pretty fast as well...

 

[aeghrur]

PKF can't do 50 %. It's a pun on DJ's random number's. Sonic's pivot grab is bad IMO. Range isn't to great. What does the Spin-Dash shield cancel do anyway?

Sigh, I wish SGB was common.

It's like pivot grab, only shield canceled, and a bit faster I think, and it changes momentum a bit... err... actually not sure about the last 2. But yeah. =/ It also makes the spinning sound everyone hates so much so it annoys them. :D That's why it's awesome, but that's mindgames.

 

[PKNintendo]

Sonic's is still better for damaging.

Doesn't the grab stale and do 2%, sometimes???

 

[Boxob]

Like it will.

Sigh, you play against CPU's don't you.

You guys are full of it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=86
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=87

It was essentially 5-5 until DJ came in with his made up grab info. Barely any of you has tested this!

Im going with Tenki, since he didn't post 5-5 then go OH GRABZOR 55-45.

Boxob, if you think a simple CG (that can be SGB) deal 140, your truly joking or flame baiting.

L2read.

A chain grab started at 140 from one side of FD will end in your death, by Uthrow.

Play computers? Rofl, no. The closest thing I've ever fought to a computer is DarkPeach.

 

[PKNintendo]

L2read.

A chain grab started at 140 from one side of FD will end in your death, by Uthrow.

Play computers? Rofl, no. The closest thing I've ever fought to a computer is DarkPeach.

Err, okay.

140-220 is still not possible. With (sigh) THE SUPER GRAB BREAK, it allows Ness to get out quicker, while receiving minimal damage. This is marth's infinite all over again. Layum.


Raichu is top tier.

 

[Boxob]

Err, okay.

140-220 is still not possible. With (sigh) THE SUPER GRAB BREAK, it allows Ness to get out quicker, while receiving minimal damage. This is marth's infinite all over again. Layum.


Raichu is top tier.

Raichu lost to Pikachu in the anime, what a ****ing scrub.

220 AT THE MOST, Ness isn't super heavy, 210 sounds about right, with perfect DI.

Which is very, very possible.

 

[cutter]

Doesn't the grab stale and do 2%, sometimes???

Yeah... grab attacks stale just like any other move. A lot of times with weak and fast grab attacks will quickly decay into 0 damage per hit! Even if it does pathetic damage, I love how your kill moves become fresh so quick from fast grab attacks.

 

[PKNintendo]

Raichu lost to Pikachu in the anime, what a ****ing scrub.

220 AT THE MOST, Ness isn't super heavy, 210 sounds about right, with perfect DI.

Which is very, very possible.

Your pulling more **** out of your ***.

From 140 to 220 you need to deal 80 damage (or 70 for 210) it's impossible. Even If I didn't Super Grab Break.


Oh and the Anime is stupid. that SAME PIKACHU lost to magickarp.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Yeah... grab attacks stale just like any other move. A lot of times with weak and fast grab attacks will quickly decay into 0 damage per hit! Even if it does pathetic damage, I love how your kill moves become fresh so quick from fast grab attacks.

Which is why wolf always has fresh attacks. Scrub-magnet.

 

[Boxob]

Your pulling more **** out of your ***.

From 140 to 220 you need to deal 80 damage (or 70 for 210) it's impossible. Even If I didn't Super Grab Break.


Oh and the Anime is stupid. that SAME PIKACHU lost to magickarp.

Haunter never loses though.

70 damage is possible without SGB.

No need to get angry, lulz.

 

[PKNintendo]

Haunter never loses though.

70 damage is possible without SGB.

No need to get angry, lulz.

No it's not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a72OVjUWaI

No need to lie lulz.

Sonic's jabs go between 2 and 1. First few jabs are 3 IIRC.