Sonic: The Go-To N00b Character

[Spawnblade]

That's easy. Sonic can't kill Marth, Toon Link or Pit.

As much as swords make baby-hedgehogs cry, you're not going to be hit if they have not the slightest idea what you plan to do next.

Marth honestly isn't that big of an issue, though Pit and TL are due to the quicker speeds and higher priority on their weapons. Either way though, you really have to rely on mind games presuming you're on an equal level. (Of which I feel sonic might be at the top - in capacity for mind games)

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Sonic won't be winning any tournaments. Every character in the game is better than him!

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Radical, go troll somewhere else. Sonic isn't the worst character by a long shot.

Marth really doesn't seem that bad, but I need to play CO's best Marth again, now that he actually has the game. Toon Link seems like he'll be a problem, but I'm not sure yet. Pit is laughable, given how ridiculously easy he is to gimp.

Seriously guys, Lucas and Luigi are the ones we'll hafta worry about most.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I am a sad man because my best character is Sonic's worst nightmare ;_;

People say I'm better with Pikachu though, but it never counts because everytime I'm Pikachu it's like I have max aggro and I die pretty quickly.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

I can name 38 characters better than Sonic.

Well, actually, to be fair, I haven't played Yoshi yet, and I probably won't play him, so I guess that's a bit of a question mark. 37 characters anyway.

 

[DroxSorcerer]

Yes, because Radical Dreamer can't win with Sonic, he must suck. My kicking my brother's butt with him doesn't mean a thing. Youtube videos of Sonic winning battles doesn't prove a thing. Guides to winning with Sonic doesn't prove a thing.

 

[DarkMist]

Sonic stands reasonably well against any character at this point. He has his stronger and weaker matchups but all of them are doable. His true strength lies in his ability to throw off the opponents tempo with his speed and annoying attacks. Its incredibly frustrating trying to land hits on a good sonic, especially when hes taking potshots at you left right and center before you turn the dam Wii on to start the battle >.<

A good sonic makes opponents make mistakes, and he then uses his speed to punish accordingly, often resulting in kills at higher percents. Hes not THAT good at gimping jumps against most characters Ive found, but its brawls mechanics that are to blame, and the fact that everyone for the most part has a good recovery.

He is not a noob character by far, as you cant just pick him up and expect to do well. He takes practice.

 

[CT Chia]

a lotta ppl will try him cause well... hes sonic. however i think hes one of the much harder characters to use in the game, and new ppl will soon switch to meta knight, one of the easiest to use for new comers.

 

[mcnichoj]

a lotta ppl will try him cause well... hes sonic. however i think hes one of the much harder characters to use in the game, and new ppl will soon switch to meta knight, one of the easiest to use for new comers.

Meta is easy to use, but not easy to use well.

no character in the game sucks...name one character who does not have the potential to kill another and then tell me Radical dreamer o.o

Just because ROB is capable of killing a character doesn't make him good, but then again he isn't neccesarily bad.

Sonic can be played a few ways, including spammin his recovery to perform a move like his Dair multiple times.

 

[Lyoncet]

Radical, you sucking with Sonic ≠ Sonic being terrible. If there are 37 characters that can beat your Sonic, you're just awful. Stop trying to make yourself feel better by taking your anger out on the character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I will admit that Sonic isn't the best fighter, but he's still good nonetheless.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Yes, because Radical Dreamer can't win with Sonic, he must suck. My kicking my brother's butt with him doesn't mean a thing. Youtube videos of Sonic winning battles doesn't prove a thing. Guides to winning with Sonic doesn't prove a thing.

Lolo, the good old "I beat my brother!" argument for low tier character defense. It never gets old.

Try actually playing against a competent Brawl player, especially if they use an actual good character like Marth, Ike or Wolf.

Radical, you sucking with Sonic ≠ Sonic being terrible. If there are 37 characters that can beat your Sonic, you're just awful. Stop trying to make yourself feel better by taking your anger out on the character.

There are 37 characters better than Sonic, possibly more. Name any character, pull a name out of a hat, and that character will have better tools for actually winning a match than Sonic. Ike? Check. Fox? Check. Snake? Check. You dominating your friends in a free-for-all by snagging a Final Smash (Sonic's is admittedly arguably the best in the game), does not reflect Sonic's actual potential.

Sonic is low tier. Now get over it and don't expect to win any tournaments with him, if you even plan on playing in any.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

You should list some examples son. Snake and Fox I'll give you. But Ike? LOL Ike. Gets gimped and punished like nobody's business.

 

[DroxSorcerer]

Lolo, the good old "I beat my brother!" argument for low tier character defense. It never gets old.

Yeah, like you have any proof that Sonic's low tier. You know what? No, I'm not saying I could beat a competitive Brawler, I've only had the game for 4 days. But is it any smarter for you to say Sonic isn't worth crap when the game's only been out for that long? Is it smart to make assumptions because you're fighting style doesn't match his moveset?

 

[Dragonbreath]

Lolo, the good old "I beat my brother!" argument for low tier character defense. It never gets old.

Try actually playing against a competent Brawl player, especially if they use an actual good character like Marth, Ike or Wolf.

There are 37 characters better than Sonic, possibly more. Name any character, pull a name out of a hat, and that character will have better tools for actually winning a match than Sonic. Ike? Check. Fox? Check. Snake? Check. You dominating your friends in a free-for-all by snagging a Final Smash (Sonic's is admittedly arguably the best in the game), does not reflect Sonic's actual potential.

Sonic is low tier. Now get over it and don't expect to win any tournaments with him, if you even plan on playing in any.

And here we have a fine example of someone ignoring three valid arguments and trying to make themselves look like they can debate by trying to debunk the most minor point in another guy's post.

Sorry, are you one of the guys in the back room? The tiers have not been written down yet. There simply haven't been enough big torunaments for accuracy. Do you even know what a teir is?

 

[Spife]

Sonic is low tier. Now get over it and don't expect to win any tournaments with him, if you even plan on playing in any.

Lolo, the good old "this character sucks and instead of backing up my points I'm just going to say it again and again and again and again and again!" argument for claiming a character...sucks. It never gets old.

cwhatididthar?

I only quoted that sentence because all of your posts basically say the same thing, I can construct a madlib for your posts.

"Sonic sucks because ________(character) is better than him. ________________________________________(quote and rebut another users post by saying above). _____________________________(repeat first statement). _____________(insult)"

But seriously, why does Sonic suck? Let's be mature and try and work together, enlighten us. This is the Sonic forum after all and none of us feel he sucks (that's why most of us are here, to learn and get better). What do you see that we're failing to? Can you provide video to back yourself up? Can you provide text to back yourself up?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Okay, seriously Radical Dreamer, just because you can't play Sonic doesn't mean he's the worst character in the game. Stop trolling, or I'll start reporting you to mods and admins for flame-baiting.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

You should list some examples son. Snake and Fox I'll give you. But Ike? LOL Ike. Gets gimped and punished like nobody's business.

Ike is a monster and will easily be in the northern half of the tier list. Sonic isn't even close to him. Ike will outrange, outprioritize, outlast, outkill, outrecover Sonic. The only thing he won't do is outrun him. It's hard to determine specific character matchups right now, but just by examining the tools that certain characters have, it's clear that Sonic has very few effective tools to work with, while Ike has a ton. This specific character matchup, Ike vs. Sonic will most likely be bad for Sonic, and most of Sonic's other matchups will probably also be very bad since he doesn't really have anything to work with.

Ike has basically nothing but stellar moves and they all make Sonic's moves look even sillier than they already are. Jab combo, Utilt, nair, bair, upsmash, forward b and upb are all godly, all among the best moves in the entire. Ike's Jab combo pretty much is the best jab combo in the entire game. Then he has a bunch of other really good moves, including uair, fair, dair, dsmash and fsmash. All of this combines to make Ike a defensive powerhouse and allows him to score kills with relative ease in a game in which killing is difficult, while Sonic is among the characters who has exceptional difficulty killing. Just by comparing movesets, the only place where Ike isn't clearly just better is in the throws. Ike can uthrow or dthrow for attempted aether or uair followups, but this fairly escapable, as is Sonic's uthrow to uair or spring chase. The difference is that Ike has all these other ridiculous options out of shield, such as nair, bair, dair, and upb. Dair pops up and possibly leads to usmash, utilt, and then aether or uair follow ups. All of this equals big damage and possibly kills. Bair is really fast and really powerful. Upb is good for the damage. Nair has roughly a 270 degree hit radius, and sets up for other moves fairly well since the animation finishes before Ike hits the ground, meaning no landlag. In general Ike's nair is one of his greatest ubiquitous moves because of the coverage and because it's so safe. You can easily follow it up with jab combos whether it hits or not. If the nair hits it'll pop them up slightly at lower percents and they'll eat the rest of the jab combo. If the nair doesn't gets shielded, the jab combo generally pushes them back enough to make it safe. Sonic's usmash out of shield isn't on par with any of these.

Ike is safer and better than you realize. Forward b pushes shielded opponents back significantly the more it's charged, and is completely lagless if it doesn't connect at all. Characters with projectiles will just shoot Ike here, but characters without projectiles have no easy answer. Sonic doesn't have a projectile. Forward air can be spaced much in the same way Marth's forward air could be spaced in Melee so that you can hit without while remaining out of shieldgrab range. Nair, as mentioned before, is completely lagless on landing. Most attempts to punish Ike will get stuffed by his godly jab combo.

I don't see Sonic penetrating Ike's defense, even with his speed. Ike may not have Marth's speed, but his range and coverage is even more broken than Marth's was in Melee. Nair has roughly 270 degree coverage. Forward air even has roughly 200 degree coverage; it's one of, if not the only, forward air, capable of hitting an opponent behind another player. Forward smash may be slow but it has its utility. It's just a situational move that needs to be used wisely, which is more than can be said for most of Sonic's moves. Techchase with forward smash and you can score a kill. You can see forward smash techchasing in videos of Azen's and Kirk's Ikes. Downsmash isn't as powerful but also has techchasing utility. Upsmash is ridiculous for aerial interception and platform molestation.

As far as recovery, Ike does have one of the most unsafe recoveries in the game, but so does Sonic.

Honestly, Sonic is worse than Mewtwo and Pichu were in Melee. Those actually characters had useful moves, projectiles, safe recoveries in a game where recoveries were generally unsafe, and better ways of countering the high tier characters in that game, all things Sonic doesn't have in Brawl. If Sonic had Melee's dashdancing he could probably make mid-tier since you could actually utilize his speed in a meaningful way, and do something like shield pressure with tilts into DD grab mixups.

Yeah, like you have any proof that Sonic's low tier. You know what? No, I'm not saying I could beat a competitive Brawler, I've only had the game for 4 days. But is it any smarter for you to say Sonic isn't worth crap when the game's only been out for that long? Is it smart to make assumptions because you're fighting style doesn't match his moveset?

Sorry, it's just that in the history of every tier argument that has ever existed, there has always been someone to come in and say something like "I beat my brother's Marth with Roy all the time." This goes even for other fighting games where the communities tend to be smarter and understand tiers better. You know what, there's no guarantee that Sonic is one of the worst characters in the game, but I would be willing to bet my money on a very big probably. There's only one high level Melee player, Lucky, who has tried playing Sonic competitively, and his thoughts on Sonic are, verbatim, "he's got to be one of the lower tier characters in the game; he's pretty bad." Even relatively early in Melee's life a lot of players could tell that Mewtwo and Pichu weren't worth much, and they had a lot more potential than Sonic. It would take something along the lines of a Chudat Ice Climbers style revolution to make Sonic good, and even then I couldn't even see him being in the top 15 characters.

And here we have a fine example of someone ignoring three valid arguments and trying to make themselves look like they can debate by trying to debunk the most minor point in another guy's post.

Sorry, are you one of the guys in the back room? The tiers have not been written down yet. There simply haven't been enough big torunaments for accuracy. Do you even know what a teir is?

What valid arguments? Guides and videos? That's two and they're not good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC74-uDN5F4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u89hqpmQwqE

What was the third argument? Beating his brother? Come on.

And what's all this crap in Cyan? Sounds like the typical Smash misconception of tiers. Tier lists are not tournament results. Tournament results are the empirical data used in the meta-analysis that results in the formation of tier lists. The Smash community is so ignorant as to what a tier list actually is. Tiers exist in a game whether a list is made or not. Tier lists can exist whether there are tournaments or not. A tier list is a rigorous assessment of every characters' strengths, weaknesses, matchups, etc based on empirical data. Tournament results are just usually a good source of empirical data because players usually bring out the full potential of a character in a tournament.

Lern2tierlist.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

FINALLY some evidence.

I can't say much other than you seem to be viciously hyping up Ike. Are you freaking SURE Ike has all that SAFE written all over him? Half of all of his good moves have nightmarish lag with the exception of the Forward B you mention. I really want to see videos of Ike now.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

If you roll through Ike's forward smash or you shield a poorly spaced forward air, you can definitely punish those. Nair has no landing lag because even in a short hop it'll finish before Ike goes back to the ground, so you can instantly do anything after a shorthopped nair. Same goes for Bair. These attacks are as safe as attacks can possibly get in Brawl. Jab combo is really good for stuffing a lot of things and is itself a really good punisher. I think an uncharged forward b might be punishable if shielded. Utilt has some lag but is worth the risk and has a hitbox much bigger than it appears to be.

 

[mcnichoj]

...It would take something along the lines of a Chudat Ice Climbers style revolution to make Sonic good...

Funny you mention that, because I do believe that Chu uses Sonic...

I won't lie, but I really wanted to punch you in the face for your initial posts, but you saved yourself with that last lengthy post. I don't personally like Ike, but as long as you have a back-up argument I suppose it is alright to some extent.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

lol@Ike outrecovering Sonic.

Ike will probably be higher than Sonic, but really Sonic isn't the worst character. Not by a long shot. You can grab Ike DURING the nair, so the ******* should never get to use his no lag frames. His recovery is gimpable, so horribly gimpable. Ike isn't amazing, he just has a shallow learning curve, and most people don't know how to fight him. Sonic, meanwhile, has a very steep learning curve, and, due to his lack of killing moves, anyone that doesn't know how to play as him WILL lose, guaranteed.

RD is just trolling. His walls of text are just massive flames.

 

[tafutureboy]

Sonic isnt the n00b character
I've mained him and have to say it's actually difficult to KO people. I've been playing online the pastr few days and I can get their damage up fast but KOing them is another story.

I agree that the n00b characters will be Pit, Meta, Diddy etc

 

[Radical Dreamer]

lol@Ike outrecovering Sonic.

Ike will probably be higher than Sonic, but really Sonic isn't the worst character. Not by a long shot. You can grab Ike DURING the nair, so the ******* should never get to use his no lag frames. His recovery is gimpable, so horribly gimpable. Ike isn't amazing, he just has a shallow learning curve, and most people don't know how to fight him. Sonic, meanwhile, has a very steep learning curve, and, due to his lack of killing moves, anyone that doesn't know how to play as him WILL lose, guaranteed.

RD is just trolling. His walls of text are just massive flames.

How about I report you to a moderator for being such a massive douchebag? At least other bad characters have things going for them. Ganondorf has forward b, uair, and bair, Captain Falcon has uair and bair. Jigglypuff can still wop and edgeguard a little, and can even kill better than Sonic. Samus has zoning capablities with zair and projectiles.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I don't know what the complaints about Ike are but I mop the floor with Ike when I play as Sonic level 9 and human players.

 

[Soloman]

playin lvl 9s was cool when the game first came out to learn the basic strats and gameplay sonic has to offer, u need pure train bots, and human players.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

You're welcome to try, RD. Last I checked, being a douche wasn't an offense. If it was, 5150 would have been banned twelve times over by now. However, flame-baiting and trolling are.

You want something Sonic has that Falcon, Ganon, and Jiggs don't? The ability to get past projectile spammers. >b has invincibilty frames, at least to projectiles, for the first jump. Down-b goes completely under arrows, and some lasers. He's flammable, but aside from that, he doesn't care about projectile spammers nearly as much as those three do. Also, unlike CF and Ganon, he is COMPLETELY ungimpable, and is able to gimp pretty well. Also, last I checked, none of those three could kill at 13% on Corneria without doing a move that has ridiculous wind-up. None of them can carry people off with fairs, or springboard to uair for early percent kills, and only Ganon has Sonic's tech-chasing capability. Even then, once they get out of his range, what is he gonna do?

Seriously, stop being such a hating scrub. Go play a MUGEN version of Sonic that's broken as hell and has your beloved Urkle as his VA.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

In that case, how about I report you for flaming, since that is a ban-able offense?

Seriously, grow up.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

You're more than welcome to. I don't quite see where I've been flaming, though. Almost every single one of my posts has relevant contributions.

"Sonic is the worst character" being the staple of all of your posts is hardly anything aside from flame-baiting, especially on the Sonic boards. You provide fallacious examples as to why he's "the worst", citing multiple unrelated instances (and often, incorrectly), and completely ignore every single positive thing he has going for him, in conjunction to either ignoring or attacking anyone that disagrees with you. If that's not trolling, I'm not quite sure what is.

By the by, kettle, pot called.

 

[BananaNut]

I stumbled across sonic as my main because of his uber running speed. He're's how it happened.

I was ya know, trying out all the characters in brawl to see which one was for me. Final destenation, no items V.S. a lvl 7 CPU, 4 stocks.. Link was out, maybe young link, kirby maybe, Jigglypuff got nerfed hard and didn't have the green bandana, so I tried my luck with sonic.

And I failed miserably.

The CPU comboed me off the stage and 2 stocked me. So then I said, " I must not be playing him right." and tried again, this timoe with a more annoying playstyle. when mario was at about 110% I landed a F smash launching him to the other side. Then I ran across FD intercepted with a Fair before he hit the ground for a KO. I was like, "OMG Sonic's for me."

Then I practiced, and now I can beat my freind's Ike (he has a crazy Ike IMO), and my other freind's Pit(Arrow spammer I luv that spindash) with my sonic.

 

[Lyoncet]

In that case, how about I report you for flaming, since that is a ban-able offense?

Seriously, grow up.

Countering your lame-*** posts riddled with illogical claims and examples of your own ineptness is not flaming. It's putting you in your place.

BTW, you telling someone to "grow up" is absolutely hysterical.

 

[Rampage]

If noobs do pick him up. They won't like him. I thought he was so bad when I first tried him but I've gotten used to his style. He's very hard to play well, but I'm starting to get the hang of his strengths

 

[rushdown]

I'm kind of fearful noobs will flock to Sonic, only because I like underrated/underdog characters. And funnily enough, I do not find Sonic difficult to use, at all. Sure he has some nuances, but for some reason, he speaks to me. And this is coming from someone who abhorred fast characters in Melee (spanimals, Sheik).

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Falcon to Sonic was so natural. Although his nuances are an annoyance.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

You're more than welcome to. I don't quite see where I've been flaming, though. Almost every single one of my posts has relevant contributions.

"Sonic is the worst character" being the staple of all of your posts is hardly anything aside from flame-baiting, especially on the Sonic boards. You provide fallacious examples as to why he's "the worst", citing multiple unrelated instances (and often, incorrectly), and completely ignore every single positive thing he has going for him, in conjunction to either ignoring or attacking anyone that disagrees with you. If that's not trolling, I'm not quite sure what is.

By the by, kettle, pot called.

Don't flatter yourself. Your posts don't have nearly as much substance as your huge ego would like to believe. They're barely much better than "RD is sucks, I'm so great with Sonic." Accusing me of "not being able to play with Sonic," calling me a "hating scrub," and calling me a troll even after I provide a lot of examples that factually reflect the state of the game (admittedly more regarding Ike than Sonic), are all flaming. I don't seriously plan to report you to mods because I don't expect them to care all that much. But you've been in violation of forum policy more than I have. And you haven't added many "relevant contributions" to boot.

Seriously, stop being such a hating scrub. Go play a MUGEN version of Sonic that's broken as hell and has your beloved Urkle as his VA.

Seriously, if this doesn't count as flaming, I don't know what does. It's certainly more flameworthy than anything I've ever posted here. Admittedly, I called you a douchebag, which I won't rescind, because there's no denying that you provoked it.

Sonic won't be winning any Brawl tournaments. There have already been some Brawl tournaments thus far, and Sonic hasn't even been cracking the top five. Meanwhile Ike has, along with characters like Dedede, Metaknight, Pit, Marth, Olimar and Snake. Right now the only known player who will probably even try to use Sonic in tournaments is Lucky. He'll probably then switch to Marth once he loses with Sonic to a player on his level using Wolf.

In a game where edgeguarding, comboing, and gimping have been deemphasized, the ability to kill be simply sending your opponent past the blast zone is extremely valuable. This is precisely something characters like Ike and Fox excel at, and precisely what Sonic has trouble with. Your response to this is that Sonic is okay on one counterpick stage because he can kill vertically at very low percents. Meanwhile, tons of other characters are okay on Corneria and kill vertically earlier than they usually do. If you somehow manage to win your counterpick, you can easily expect to be taken to some other stage, where the stage versatility of other characters will return the advantage to them. Ganon and Falcon may have a little more trouble closing the distance than Sonic, but when it comes to actually fighting, i.e. landing blows, especially killing blows, they both blow him out of the water with their better moves that have better priority and more power. Not that I expect Ganondorf vs. Pit to be a favorable matchup either.

I don't know what your criteria is for "gimpability," but Sonic's recovery gets *****, especially by characters like Marth. It may not result in some instant death, low percent death like how Pit can't use his upB after being hit out of it, but without auto sweetspot it's still easily one of the most unsafe recoveries in the game. The best you can do is probably to recover high and dair onto the stage.

Countering your lame-*** posts riddled with illogical claims and examples of your own ineptness is not flaming. It's putting you in your place.

BTW, you telling someone to "grow up" is absolutely hysterical.

This is flaming, sorry to say. I don't see what's so hysterical; I mean, I seem to recall you telling me that I suck, that I'm awful, and that I'm inept. Meanwhile, I haven't said anything to you, especially nothing so negative. I also seem to recall several other people here telling me that I suck. Many of them also contributed absolutely nothing to this topic other than to tell me how much I suck, such as yourself. From an objective point of view, it certainly seems like I'm the one in the position of maturity here. Seriously, grow up.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

How long are you guys going to keep this Slow/Strong versus Fast/Technical thing going?

 

[TwinkleToes]

Radical's post is a pretty good example of why Sonic will never be the "go-to" character for noobs.

And since that basically answers the question this thread brings up, what say we give the ol' back and forth flaming a rest, eh?

It doesn't really matter if Radical thinks Sonic is crap so quit trying to prove otherwise with words.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Odd, I've already placed top 3 in a Colorado tournament, and am likely to consistently place top 4. Hrm...

Inb4CA+NY+WA>CO, because Melee =/= Brawl, and CO was actually decent. LoVo ***** Forward's Fox with Link, and came pretty close to winning against Sheik with Luigi, despite not playing Luigi, and yes, this was in tournament.

Don't claim I don't contribute. I have a huge thread with percents for every single move, as well as initial impressions. It needs to be updated, granted, but whatever. I lol@LuCKy being the "only one" able to use him in tournament. LuCKy is good, I'm not saying otherwise, but Sonic isn't such a horrible character that only LuCKy can use him, seriously.

Gimps are going to become essential soon enough, people just don't know how to do it. That's how it always is with fighting games. To claim this game will come down to who can hit hard RIGHT NOW seems faulty, at best, to me. I don't get where everyone's coming up with "MARF WAS THOUGHT TO BE GOOD IN MELEE FROM THE BEGINNING", because he wasn't. Larger community or not, we're still VERY ignorant as to how we're going to break this one. Techniques are being discovered on a daily basis, and even CF's game is stepping up.

Really, RD, just accept that you don't know how to play the character and move on. You're new to the game, and probably the series (competitively, I mean), and Sonic is a difficult character. My first two weeks playing him were almost nothing but losses. Much like most CF players lost for the first... what... four years of Melee? Look where he ended up.

Sonic doesn't just do ~okay~ on Corneria. He does really really really well there. You know that, on the fin (and this goes for any massively sloped areas), he can actually cancel the spindashes into fsmash/dmash/usmash? SURPRISE!!!

He can do it on any part of Green Hill Zone, as well.

There are a lot more things about Sonic that I'm keeping on the DL for now, because I want to showcase them in tournament. Suffice to say, Sonic is NOT terrible. Not top tier, but not terrible, in the least.

RD, as I recall, I originally accused you of flame-baiting and trolling. It's only natural that you would get retaliatory flames. Seriously, man, you're being a **** to anyone that disagrees with you, and have no basis for your assumptions. Gimping has been "toned down" because people are still playing like it's Melee and not going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there and hitting people upside the head for kills. It's harder, and there's no shine spike (yet), but it's not gone, nor is edgeguarding.

In the end, I REALLY do think it comes down to you being disappointed about Sonic being so hard to play, and you end up johning about the character instead of looking at yourself because of it. It's not flaming, he just doesn't seem to suit your playstyle.

Also, lololol@marf, anyone with a decent projectile game is going to **** him, and hard, mark my words. Fair>fair doesn't even work, you can midair out of them, just ask m2k. Treat Marth like Peach, and just camp him, and it's GGs, sonz. Srsly. Give it about 3 months, maybe 6. He'll still be ridiculously good, don't get me wrong (not everyone can projectile camp), and probably end up high-tier, but he doesn't have the options he used to.

Which brings me to one last thing... How are you getting gimped as Sonic? Do you somehow magically get hit out of your invincibility frames? Do you dair to land on the stage every time? Do you only DI one way when you're going to land? Do you spring as soon as possible? Do you neglect to sometimes recover low and midair dodge right after the invincibility ends, for nigh-unpunishable recovery?

Seriously, one of Sonic's strongest points is how ridiculously hard he is to gimp.

 

[Lyoncet]

I called you out as being a bad Sonic player only after you told us that there are 37 characters that you can't beat with him. Just re-stating what you already said. Don't see how that's being cruel, just level-headed.

And seriously, how did Zeal "provoke you" into calling him a douchebag? Here's the post you responded to:

lol@Ike outrecovering Sonic.

Ike will probably be higher than Sonic, but really Sonic isn't the worst character. Not by a long shot. You can grab Ike DURING the nair, so the ******* should never get to use his no lag frames. His recovery is gimpable, so horribly gimpable. Ike isn't amazing, he just has a shallow learning curve, and most people don't know how to fight him. Sonic, meanwhile, has a very steep learning curve, and, due to his lack of killing moves, anyone that doesn't know how to play as him WILL lose, guaranteed.

RD is just trolling. His walls of text are just massive flames.

He said two things about you: you're trolling and you're flaming. And that was because you just said that "Ike can outrecover Sonic," which is objectively untrue and, frankly, really stupid. Kind of like things trolls say when they flame people. Seriously.

Oh, and you telling Zeal that you've contributed more than he has to these forums is absolutely hysterical. Here's what you've contributed to this thread so far:

Noobs will go to Sonic and then realize he sucks and play someone else.

That's easy. Sonic can't kill Marth, Toon Link or Pit. (In response to: name one character who does not have the potential to kill another)

Sonic won't be winning any tournaments. Every character in the game is better than him!

I can name 38 characters better than Sonic. Well, actually, to be fair, I haven't played Yoshi yet, and I probably won't play him, so I guess that's a bit of a question mark. 37 characters anyway.

Lolo, the good old "I beat my brother!" argument for low tier character defense. It never gets old.Try actually playing against a competent Brawl player, especially if they use an actual good character like Marth, Ike or Wolf.

There are 37 characters better than Sonic, possibly more. Name any character, pull a name out of a hat, and that character will have better tools for actually winning a match than Sonic. Ike? Check. Fox? Check. Snake? Check. You dominating your friends in a free-for-all by snagging a Final Smash (Sonic's is admittedly arguably the best in the game), does not reflect Sonic's actual potential. Sonic is low tier. Now get over it and don't expect to win any tournaments with him, if you even plan on playing in any.

[a long post where you claimed that Ike can outrecover Sonic]

[one post that talks about Ike strategies, followed by the douchebag comment]

The rest is history.

So anyways, I count one one post of actual value. Certainly, you have posted on other threads, but most of those involved getting Jameel White to do voice acting.

Meanwhile, Zeal has provided us with some of the best in-depth analyses of Sonic's moves and strategies that these forums have ever seen. While I certainly have done no such thing, I was the one who got SonicOrochi to post his findings here, and he himself has contributed a good deal of knowledge about the character. Also, my trying to get you off of these forums (or at least be constructive) certainly falls into the category of "in the best interests of the community." I'd like to know how many people disagree with me.

In conclusion, inb4GrowUpStopBeingSoMeanDouchebagI'veDoneNoWrongSomeonePleaseListen

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Lyoncet, marry me.