Sonic Report from E for All and Move List

[Gerudo Warrior]

yeah. i am loving this.

i have a question. how much lag does sonic have out of his Nair? Also for his up smash can sonic only move again when he hits the ground?

 

[rocdar12]

Thanks man...now I know Kirby's stansdard special move when he's sonic...but I can't see him spinning, then targeting people like a homing missle. O WELL! Thanks again man!!! Awsome report!

 

[hamsterboy9]

Yes...I can't wait till I get to be an official Sonic user...
Has anyone else been practicing with Fox and Captain Falcon in Melee to be ready for Sonic? I have...

 

[Cless]

I haven't because it's not going to be the same. Fox's speed was vertical mostly, and Captain Falcon probably falls way faster than Sonic does. Plus he probably has less traction.

 

[Jisike]

yeah. i am loving this.

i have a question. how much lag does sonic have out of his Nair? Also for his up smash can sonic only move again when he hits the ground?

For the first question, you have to specify what you mean. do you mean how long it takes to comeplete the animation in the air, or how long it takes to complete the landing animation? The answer for both would be exactly what you would expect from the average everyday nair.

For the upsmash, yes, sonic cant move until he hits the ground, and a little bit afterwards to complete the animation.

 

[fouxs2]

Actually, damage from SS is completely nulified and he sort of "slows down" if an attack hits him. That's one way of protecting yourself I guess...

Fox wouldn't really help, Sonic may be fast but his moves work in a speed completely unrelated to his running.

 

[SonicSSJX the Hedgehog]

Sonic Up B may not do damage, but if the Spring hits them, it does 4% of damage.

 

[fouxs2]

No, it does damage, someone broke a smash ball with it, it just doesn't do any impact, the srping, on the other hand, does, and apparently it's an awesome annoyer or can be used to stop anyone persuing you into the air, since apparently Spring Jump cancels anything into it.

 

[SonicSSJX the Hedgehog]

No, it does damage, someone broke a smash ball with it, it just doesn't do any impact, the srping, on the other hand, does, and apparently it's an awesome annoyer or can be used to stop anyone persuing you into the air, since apparently Spring Jump cancels anything into it.

I used to think besides the huge jump and you can attack after the Spring Jump, it was a dumb Up B for Sonic, but now that it can do more, it's a better Up B than Most Up Bs I've seen in the game, and it has some good after effects.

 

[ShadowLink84]

sounds interesting it just depends on how easily it can be used I suppose.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I just love how you can still attack after using it. Some characters really needed that buff in Melee, and hopefully they'll get it in Brawl (assuming they return).

 

[kirbycommando]

i guess it could aslo be used for an edgeguard maybe

 

[JK180]

after seeing sonic in action, i cannot wait to play with him

 

[Jisike]

i guess it could aslo be used for an edgeguard maybe

No knockback/range = crappy edge guard

 

[SmashALLSTAR]

Cheers for the detailed report, much appreciated.
Well I always knew that Sonic would be one of my mains. I have been very excited about the prospect of the Blue Blur entering the Brawl and after his confirmation I was delighted. I grew up with the hedgehog instead of the plumber back when I was younger (I do miss my Sega) and I'm quite a sucker for his games (even though they haven't quite mastered him in 3Dimensions, yet). He'll be one of my, if not the, first character(s) that I play and master. I can see it now on my Brawl records with Sonic's matches count well above the others.

 

[Cless]

Blue Boomer? Isn't it Blue Blur or something?

 

[SmashALLSTAR]

I think I got Blue Boomer from back in the day when I read the Sonic the Comics. Oh wait, I think that's what the comic called it's readers (minus the Blue part)...I think. My memories left me, lol.

Yeah, he is named the Blue Blur I believe.
I just thought that the whole boomer thing was another name, but perhaps I'm wrong. Stupid memory.

 

[Dynamism]

The Blue Bomber is Megaman

And in a vid, Sonics fully charged DownB does 38% and carries the opponent into the air with him.

I am also extreemly positive that Sonic will have a form of pillaring. More so, a ladder or stepping with his SideB and Fair/Uair/Bair successions.
Almost 100% positive actually

 

[freetyme]

I don't mean to start a debate here especially since I'm new but do tiers really exist? I'm gathering its a big debate here on the smash boards because of the t-shirt available. I can see how many people would feel some groups of characters are better than others but what about characters such as the ice climbers? What about Jigglypuff? Many would consider those characters to be on a low tier, but I've seen some people who can really tear it up with them. Sure Pichu is nowhere as useful as Marth or Fox but I think I would disagree the creators made a tier system. Melee wasn't totally balanced but it at least attempted to be, and I bet a contributing factor to the Brawl delay was the need to balance a huge roster of very varried characters. So please tell me about this tier debate--am I thinking about it all the wrong way?

 

[Dark Luna]

Tiers only matter in competitive play. They hardly play a factor in casual play, which is what the game was made for.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Sounds good?
It's a great report, but I'm a little disappointed that Sonic has 'weak attacks' and little knockback with most moves.
Still, he'll still definately be my main.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

I don't mean to start a debate here especially since I'm new but do tiers really exist? I'm gathering its a big debate here on the smash boards because of the t-shirt available. I can see how many people would feel some groups of characters are better than others but what about characters such as the ice climbers? What about Jigglypuff? Many would consider those characters to be on a low tier, but I've seen some people who can really tear it up with them. Sure Pichu is nowhere as useful as Marth or Fox but I think I would disagree the creators made a tier system. Melee wasn't totally balanced but it at least attempted to be, and I bet a contributing factor to the Brawl delay was the need to balance a huge roster of very varried characters. So please tell me about this tier debate--am I thinking about it all the wrong way?

Welcome to Smashboards Freetyme.

Tiers are not really up for debate .... literally. They are composed by the best tournament players in the "backroom" forum which you have to have special access to get into, so nothing you say will actually effect them whatsoever.

This particular thread is definitely not the proper forum for such a debate. But I will try to respond to you as succinctly as possible, hopefully not saying anything that will degenerate into a discussion of largely already settled issues.

First and foremost, as Dark Luna points out, the tiers only matter in competitive play and even there, they are only relevant at very high levels of play. This is something to always keep in mind.

Another wide misconception is that tiers are some sort of effectiveness or effort factor which sort of multiples the effect of one's skill. This isn't really the point of tiers. They are supposed to measure the highest degree of effectiveness which one reaches with a given character in the current metagame. This provides the reason that tiers only apply to very high level play -- if you aren't playing a character at the highest level tiers are wholly irrelevant.

Hence your anecdotes aren't really counter examples to the effectiveness of tiers. I hate to say it, but its almost certainly the case that whatever tournament you're referring wasn't played at the highest level. Local (often gamestore, high school, or college orgnaized) tournaments are almost never played at a level in which tiers matter. At my university I organized three smash tournaments, each with about 100 person attendance. Yet out of all these attendants there were only around four people who even knew what tournament level smash looked like (myself included) through downloading video from the Smashboards DC++ hub and reading these forums and none of us had any of actual Smashboards tournament experience to actually be considered good.

In addition to making only less than half the characters of the roster even remotely viable at the high levels of play, most people instinctively realize that Marth is better than most characters, so they suddenly think tiers apply to them even when they're far below skill-level where tiers really do matter.

It also appears that you are largely misinformed. According to the 2006 tiers list, both Ice Climbers and Jigglypuff are Middle Tier, the third out of 5 tiers. Ice Climbers in particular are considered the 6th best character in the game, not too shabby at all.​

Fortunately, we can always hope that Brawl will have better balance.

 

[listentomook]

hahahah he has never ever ever been called the blue boomer....

sweet my sonic the hedgehog archives just came in the mail see you all in like 3 days im going into hiding

*read read read read read*

 

[freetyme]

(meant as a reply to fightinggameguy)
Hey thanks for the clarification! Your right I've never seen anyone play at such a super-hardcore level (besides youtube videos). I just saw the t-shirt, saw the comment and thought (wrongly) that tiers were totally subjective.
Thanks for being patient, smashboards seems like a pretty cool forum, I'll definitely post my Smash code once Brawl comes out.

 

[Dynamism]

Fortunately, we can always hope that Brawl will have better balance.

Some would say melee is one of the most balanced fighters on the market (and was flukily so)

But yes, Brawl will be even more so...because they actually said they are "focusing" on it and when they say they are actually going to "focus" on something, that means they will

hahahah he has never ever ever been called the blue boomer....

sweet my sonic the hedgehog archives just came in the mail see you all in like 3 days im going into hiding

*read read read read read*

good luck with that.

Welcome to the boards freetyme and...


WHY DOES NOONE ELSE THINK SONICS SIDEB IS THE PERFECT ATTACK FOR MAKING COMBOS!!?!?!??!!

Well I guess you'll see when I pillar/staircase you

 

[Layupfreak]

cool report.

 

[J18]

great report, and especially after seeing the "test battle" update, i can't wait to play as sonic.

 

[Astrobot7000]

Wow, I was really REALLY looking forward to playing as Sonic.
I have been a huge fan since I was a small child. But reading all of this depresses me.
Sonic sounds awful! Poor smash attacks, poor damage, hard combos, easily canceled moves.
The only good thing seems to be his amazing recovery.
This saddens me deeply.
I still plan on maining him, but I plan on not being so good now =(

 

[Goldkirby]

Wow, I was really REALLY looking forward to playing as Sonic.
I have been a huge fan since I was a small child. But reading all of this depresses me.
Sonic sounds awful! Poor smash attacks, poor damage, hard combos, easily canceled moves.
The only good thing seems to be his amazing recovery.
This saddens me deeply.
I still plan on maining him, but I plan on not being so good now =(

This iinfo is kinda old, since I think some stuff changed since E for All. From videos that I have seen, sonic seems to have ok priority, can combo better then a lot of other characters, and he does have a couple of ko moves. d-smash, f-smash and b-airs all seem to work decently. No one really knows how to play him yet, so obviously he isn't going to look that great, plus the brawl engine has new mechanics that have yet to be figured out.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

This iinfo is kinda old, since I think some stuff changed since E for All. From videos that I have seen, sonic seems to have ok priority, can combo better then a lot of other characters, and he does have a couple of ko moves. d-smash, f-smash and b-airs all seem to work decently. No one really knows how to play him yet, so obviously he isn't going to look that great, plus the brawl engine has new mechanics that have yet to be figured out.

Yep, my info is old -- it clearly states E for All impressions. I'd love for anyone to produce a more update one (assuming he can demonstrate that he actually has Brawl and isn't just making things up). Any volunteers?

 

[LuCKy]

yes! i finally got brawl i cant wait to play all day tomorrow with sonic

since it took me all day today to unlock him lol

 

[FightingGameGuy]

yes! i finally got brawl i cant wait to play all day tomorrow with sonic

since it took me all day today to unlock him lol

Great, if you find anything that's changed since E for All or is no longer accurate for whatever reason, I'd appreciate it you could tell me. Also if you're really dedicated you could probably take over the task of providing a move-list and some basic analysis entirely. Thanks.

 

[FreezePop]

As everyone has said, thanks a lot for the amazing report. I really can't wait to play as him!

And when sonic does his up b on land how long does the spring stay?

 

[LuCKy]

dam i wrote this once but i clicked previous thread by accident and it erased lol oh well

ok my friend went to apply for a job yesterday so i didnt get to play too much yesterday.
now as for changes from the demo it seems like his u air was toned down.i remember it killing at around 110 percent maybe a lil bit more but i do remember it being a kill move.now it dosnt really seem to kill til you get more near the 200 percent area which isnt that good.ofcourse thats probably since i was missing the sweet spot because in the video link at the bottom of my post i kill bowser at a pretty low percent.although i did hit him pretty high and up b into it, and i remember being able to land like 3 in a row but i was only able to land one at a time. so i guess im gonna have to play around with the u air alil bit to see what it can really do.his bair still kills beautifully and at low percents you can land 2 in a row.his fair seems to be the most useful of his aerials just like the demo it has good priority and is fast enough to land when ever you want it to,plus it has just enough knock back to get them out of your face.his nair i still kinda hate but it seems the same if you hit within the first frame or so it can kill at decent percents but its a slow move with like no priority at all.the only time i found my self using that move was falling after a fair.

His d tilt still seems very useful,it reminds me of shieks d tilt since you can land like 3 in a row.his u tilt had decent priority once it started up but it did have some start up lag.his forward tilt was pretty good i dont remember using it to much but i dont remember to much start up lag and it had decent knock back.his jab combo was great it was pretty fast and the last hit had ok knock back to give you room to breath and re group.now not all of sonics moves had the best priority a lot of times i would get mad at how easy people were getting through my attacks.also sonic's "running speed" is very fast,but his attacks are not which means he will not play the same as fox in melee since i seen a lot of people say that he will.ok now sometimes it was hard to get in with sonic with his lack of priority.then i found that his dash attack worked wonders.it might be his fastest attack,at low percents it leads into a grab,at mid percents it leads into tilts and at higher percents it can lead into aerial.its a great move with from what i could tell no start up lag and it was so fast they never had time to use there attacks so im not sure about the priority.

his grabs have some decent combo possibilities like his forward throw would lead to a fair almost every time at mid and even low percents.his d throw really has no knock back since they always kind just go like a inch off the floor then just land on there backs.which is kinda good since you can tech chase with a shield cancel grab or u smash great.his u throw might be able to lead into a u smash at very low percents ill be sure to try that out today.b throw was just normal it would send them flying to far to attack but not enough to kill.

his u smash was great for tech chasing and even better if the missed a tech.although its really hard to get used to,since sonic runs so fast when you try to cancel it with a u smash he goes sliding pretty far so to hit someone with it you gotta do it pretty far a head.his forward smash still seems to be his main move to kill with it has a lil bit start up lag which gets annoying when people with 0 start up lag smashes just start c sticking like crazy,but it has really good knock back for sonic and after the start up lag its really fast.even though it lacks in range.his down smash is really fast,but it does have a lil bit start up lag which is annoyingand the range of it is supprisingly little.however it has good knock back and is very fast after the start up lag-_-.now i know im making a bug deal about the start up lag on his smashes,but they all have it and its really annoying how people can jut walk up and c stick me when i have to like mind game them into sonics smashes*sigh* i just really think sonic the fastest character like ever would have a good 0 lag strong smash.compared to toon link sonics smashes are pretty weak*sigh* you all would know what i mean if you try out toon links and sonics smashes.

hmm i didnt see too much change in sonics b moves,his down b still seems to be not needed.his forward b is still really fun to do and really useful,although i couldnt seem to tell where sonic was gonna be at after it connected.sometimes i would be in front of them which was perfect for a bair,sometimes i would be behind them which works great for a fair.once in a while i would be under them too so im gonna have to experiment with that move more.his neutral b was great for coming back to the stage when you were really close.like the start up lag would always throw of my friends and get hit by it.his up b i love lol i was able to kill people with the bumper,especially diddy king.when he charges his up b if he gets hit at all his jet pack goes flying off of him now when ever he would be directly under the ledge i would just grab the edge then let go and up b fast,and it killed him every time haha.

i didnt compare to much to the demo since i dont remember it too well and i dont feel like reading FightingGameGuy's report right now to compare.this is just like a small report on his moves,now i didnt get to play as much as i wanted but i will be playing a lot of sonic so im sure ill be learning a lot more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5LwAGsv7s here is one match from yesterday....theres more but i cant watch them for some reason

 

[SiegK]

Sonic's a Badass

 

[Dynamism]

I still thing he'll be able to "pillar" or something with that dashA/sideB. You say that you always end up on different sides of them (LuCKy) so once you can control that, and repeat the sideB afterwards in the air (which can still be JCed with the DJ) then drag them down at the low % with Fair or Bairs, or just connest with Uair to finish the combo, then he could have a chain going. This needs more experimenting. If he's "balanced" with crap smashes, damage and range, then this is SOMETHING that would balance him.

Look into it some more. I guess it'll pop up in time anyway

 

[InterimOfZeal]

(meant as a reply to fightinggameguy)
Hey thanks for the clarification! Your right I've never seen anyone play at such a super-hardcore level (besides youtube videos). I just saw the t-shirt, saw the comment and thought (wrongly) that tiers were totally subjective.
Thanks for being patient, smashboards seems like a pretty cool forum, I'll definitely post my Smash code once Brawl comes out.

I like newcomers like this.

The tiers don't exist thing is a joke.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Some would say melee is one of the most balanced fighters on the market (and was flukily so)

But yes, Brawl will be even more so...because they actually said they are "focusing" on it and when they say they are actually going to "focus" on something, that means they will



good luck with that.

Welcome to the boards freetyme and...


WHY DOES NOONE ELSE THINK SONICS SIDEB IS THE PERFECT ATTACK FOR MAKING COMBOS!!?!?!??!!

Well I guess you'll see when I pillar/staircase you

Those that would say Melee is balanced haven't played PC's Fox, M2K's Marth, or KDJ's Sheik. Seriously.

 

[RaYzYrbYrn]

I dunno if this was noted all ready cause I don't feel like reading through 14 pages, but The spindash Can also be canceled into throw! Which is good against those who antisipate your spindash and helps slow him down when your going in for a running throw so they become more acurate!

It can also be canceled into sheild, forward roll, and back roll! Spindash is really good!

Also, that first little arc he makes after the spindash starts counts as 1 of your jumps, then you can jump once more after that! I know there's a way to spindash again b4 you hit the ground and gain a third jump, but I haven't totally mastered how it works yet! Meaning I can't consistantly make it happen, so I don't know what causes it to happen! I'll update when I figure it out!

If any of this is already known, then disregard all of this, otherwise, hope it's helpfull!

 

[HaVoK x]

thanks for the post very helpful