Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Damandatwin]

Hmm... It reminds me a little bit of the b-reversed ISDJ shown here:

https://youtu.be/JOJ3Ri0zALs?t=68

except he cancels into shield and doesn't go into the air somehow. I don't think that's what it is because I don't think SDJ can be shield-cancelled, but that's my best guess.

 

[1MeLODuDE]

Hello every body I'm a Sonic main and I've recently tried picking up other characters to cover matchups I struggle in, honestly Sonic is solid and I love playing as him and I know his tech better than any other character but there are just certain matchups I have issues with. Mainly projectile based characters and sometimes a character with a single projectile in general, I know I'm being very vague but I'm curious to know how and what other Sonic players do to deal with the projectile game. Other than power shielding everything while approaching, trying to overwhelm them with my speed and spin dash, or using my homing attack while a character is throwing out laggy projectiles(I.E Link) I don't have much insight on what I should do. Any tips on what you guys do in the Sonic community would help, thanks

 

[Camalange]

Ive been working on optimizing my up thros stuff.

At zero if youup throw and go for a full jump up air youll only get the second hit. But if you do a instant double jump yoi can get both hits. Butagainst certain characters you want to stick to the normal jump second hit up air because then you can double jump afterward and get another up air. And around 20, you can do up throw i to a quick double jump nair, which is the best damage you can get, but you have to drift away from them after the hit because nair lasts so long and you can get punished on hit

Interesting you say this because I myself feel like I need to play more optimally as well...

what are the kill % of sonic? i cant find them anywhere in forum.

And updated

There are a lot more factors to this...

Rage, character weight, etc.

ayy

Hey! Just a quick note, I feel it would be beneficial to add RAR to your list of general terminology in the opening post, but you did a great job on the rest of the acronyms.

Ah yes, RAR would be a good one to have. Thanks! I'll add this to the list.

So far, we have no ****ing idea on how to do that, unfortunately.

http://gfycat.com/GoodSkeletalIberianemeraldlizard

wtf he just did it like 3 times i still don't know how

time to lab i guess

 

[BlackPhantom]

Hello every body I'm a Sonic main and I've recently tried picking up other characters to cover matchups I struggle in, honestly Sonic is solid and I love playing as him and I know his tech better than any other character but there are just certain matchups I have issues with. Mainly projectile based characters and sometimes a character with a single projectile in general, I know I'm being very vague but I'm curious to know how and what other Sonic players do to deal with the projectile game. Other than power shielding everything while approaching, trying to overwhelm them with my speed and spin dash, or using my homing attack while a character is throwing out laggy projectiles(I.E Link) I don't have much insight on what I should do. Any tips on what you guys do in the Sonic community would help, thanks

Just get in by powershielding, and once you get in STAY in. You can do this by reading their reaction to whatever you do near then since they aren't used to having to fight close up in those certain MUs vs. Sonic. Also, keep your cool. One slip up can cost you a reset to neutral, which you don't want vs. projectile heavy characters. Also, look up top sonics and see how they get in vs. those certain characters.


Hoped that helped
#Save Sonic (From the nerfs, of course )

P.S. Sonic doesn't need secondaries unless you're serious about winning a national anytime soon.

 

[Camalange]

P.S. Sonic doesn't need secondaries unless you're serious about winning a national anytime soon.

That is, in fact, the point of a secondary.

 

[dumcb]

Hey everyone! Two main things I have questions for right now.

a) I'm working on consistently spinshotting. I am on a Wii u gamepad (just got the Wii u!) My question is, should I still be trying to use the c stick to spinshot? It seems inconvenient. I'm currently experimenting with jump on LZ, any tips are appreciated.

b) When edge(ledge?)guarding, what should I look to be doing? I know some people try to catch the ledge snap with a smash but I don't know the timing, because I never seem to get it.

 

[Luig]

For a, you only need to work on not using the c stick if you are using HSD. With HSD you need to do it the traditional way.
For b, fair works like a charm, catches air dodges, and very easy to stage spike and catch the 1 frame. Spring is a ridiculous gimping tool that is impossible to avoid if used right, bair is a kill move, and dair can get those 1 frame windows with some practice. reverse sd to bair works well too. Dsmash and Fsmash, you have to practice to get the timing right, but one time I hit Mewtwo's up-b 3 times with the 1 frame window in a row. You'll get the hang of it.

 

[bpjk27]

Ive been working on optimizing my up thros stuff.

At zero if youup throw and go for a full jump up air youll only get the second hit. But if you do a instant double jump yoi can get both hits. Butagainst certain characters you want to stick to the normal jump second hit up air because then you can double jump afterward and get another up air. And around 20, you can do up throw i to a quick double jump nair, which is the best damage you can get, but you have to drift away from them after the hit because nair lasts so long and you can get punished on hit

I see Komorikiri follow up on up throws at zero percent with bairs. Maybe it's DI dependant, but I think that bair does more damage than other aerials (up throw bair does 20% of damage).

Anyway, does anyone have advice on the best way to deal with Mega Man's projectiles.

 

[dumcb]

For a, you only need to work on not using the c stick if you are using HSD. With HSD you need to do it the traditional way.
For b, fair works like a charm, catches air dodges, and very easy to stage spike and catch the 1 frame. Spring is a ridiculous gimping tool that is impossible to avoid if used right, bair is a kill move, and dair can get those 1 frame windows with some practice. reverse sd to bair works well too. Dsmash and Fsmash, you have to practice to get the timing right, but one time I hit Mewtwo's up-b 3 times with the 1 frame window in a row. You'll get the hang of it.

I'll just keep working it out then, thanks. What I meant by a), however, was that the Wii U gamepad's c-stick seems awkwardly placed to do this kind of tech. Like my thumb has to move from b all the way up to the stick and I don't know if it's feasible

 

[Luig]

I've never thought it was awkward. Maybe its just all those years of piano. Well, just practice and you'll get better.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Alright so regarding that sliding shield canceled spin dash I've managed to replicate it although not getting the slide to be that much yet. Basically the way it's done is similar to how you would input a reverse wave bounce. The reason this becomes hard to do with sonic is mainly because if you input in the wrong order you end up rolling. Basically the inputs I believe should look something like this

(WHILE MOVING LEFT)
>>>>>>

Basically what your trying to do is wave bounce the side be in the opposite direction and then pivot back in the direction you were facing..

 

[Camalange]

It's the pivot part that always trips me up...

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Awesome find! Too bad it is as tendonitis-inducing as all those ****ing frame-perfect ATs are.

 

[spiNR]

Hey guys. I'm starting to practice some more default Sonic because I have a feeling my local scene is going to be dropping customs very soon. I feel like I've gotten a bit stagnant in my gameplay and I want to try to integrate new tech and style. I spinshot occasionally but don't know what else to implement more of. Should I make more of an effort to try more B-reversing or ISDJ? A little guidance would go a long way.

 

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

So in pre-patch, I considered Sonic as my true main, because he just feel so rewarding getting so early and racking tons of damage. But now, especially since patch 1.0.6, I no longer have the true feeling of Sonic that I know before! He kills much later and deals less damage with Spin Dashes. Because of this, I don't play him as often as I should with my other main, which is Mario. Since then, I no longer feel the reward and the satisfying experience that I had with the character. I still love Sonic (don't get me wrong), but it's just that he's not as good as before. When I play him now, I kinda feel bored! Should I drop him and choose another character or... (honestly I don't want to drop Sonic just because I love him so much)?

Basically, I also want to ask you guys as Sonic mains this question : what is satisfying when you guys play Sonic? What does he reward you? Do you feel satisfied when you play Sonic or are you bored? What is the best way in terms of gameplay to make Sonic more interesting and fun (like not spamming Spin Dashes)? Thanks for your help, guys!

 

[cerealkiller]

Hi guys,

So in pre-patch, I considered Sonic as my true main, because he just feel so rewarding getting so early and racking tons of damage. But now, especially since patch 1.0.6, I no longer have the true feeling of Sonic that I know before! He kills much later and deals less damage with Spin Dashes. Because of this, I don't play him as often as I should with my other main, which is Mario. Since then, I no longer feel the reward and the satisfying experience that I had with the character. I still love Sonic (don't get me wrong), but it's just that he's not as good as before. When I play him now, I kinda feel bored! Should I drop him and choose another character or... (honestly I don't want to drop Sonic just because I love him so much)?

Basically, I also want to ask you guys as Sonic mains this question : what is satisfying when you guys play Sonic? What does he reward you? Do you feel satisfied when you play Sonic or are you bored? What is the best way in terms of gameplay to make Sonic more interesting and fun (like not spamming Spin Dashes)? Thanks for your help, guys!

I actually feel the exact same way. Except I'm not considering "leaving" Sonic, I just don't use him as much.
It didn't help that at the same time I was looking for a secondary (actually a main for SLHG) those nerfing patches came along so after a while playing with other characters I went back to Sonic and felt "whoa...this feels different".

To be completely fair, because I haven't practiced much I'm aware my play style is more predictable now, I used to be more creative.

 

[Kulty]

I actually feel the exact same way. Except I'm not considering "leaving" Sonic, I just don't use him as much.
It didn't help that at the same time I was looking for a secondary (actually a main for SLHG) those nerfing patches came along so after a while playing with other characters I went back to Sonic and felt "whoa...this feels different".

To be completely fair, because I haven't practiced much I'm aware my play style is more predictable now, I used to be more creative.

I'm really scared to drop Sonic, because I love this character so much. But what prevents me from enjoying more is the fact that he got nerfed in many game patches, and the fact that he isn't that rewarding and satisfying in terms of experience (that's what I think as a Sonic main)! I want to be creative, but I really don't know what to do with Sonic now! Maybe put him as a secondary and find a new main alongside Mario. It really sucks! Who's SLHG?

 

[Gregory2590]

SLHG is an overrated game type. It basically increases gravity and lowers landing lag. That's it. It grew on people because it felt akin to melee, but it has it's share of dumb problems.(sonic/DH/etc's up bs being PITIFUL etc)

 

[cerealkiller]

Overrated? The vast majority of the community either doesn't know or have tried it yet and it's hardly ever talked about... How is it overrated?

It basically increases gravity and lowers landing lag. That's it.

True.

It grew on people because it felt akin to melee,

False

but it has it's share of dumb problems

True

(etc's up bs being PITIFUL etc)

False

I personally think it's awesome and much better than vanilla. Coming from a Sonic main, probably the most (negatively) affected character in that mode, it should mean something.

@ Kulty if you want to learn more about it check this thread http://smashboards.com/threads/smooth-lander-and-heavy-gravity-slhg-update-online.383506/

 

[Groudon_sama]

I'm really scared to drop Sonic, because I love this character so much. But what prevents me from enjoying more is the fact that he got nerfed in many game patches, and the fact that he isn't that rewarding and satisfying in terms of experience (that's what I think as a Sonic main)! I want to be creative, but I really don't know what to do with Sonic now! Maybe put him as a secondary and find a new main alongside Mario. It really sucks! Who's SLHG?

If anything, I find him more interesting to play now since I have to be more careful with what I do, and in doing so I've become a lot better by not committing to anything that could end up in a hard punish. I like playing rush down, so I rely mostly on his speed rather than his power, so racking up damage isn't much of a problem. Once you're in their face and keep the pressure up and exploit their defence, then you're good to go! If you have trouble approaching, mix it up rather than just spin dashing because that's just incredibly boring. Short hop nair sour spot > utilt > fair is quite fun if you get it! but however you approach depends entirely on who you're playing. Work on your pivoting, his pivot fsmash is literally one of his best punishes for people attacking whilst landing, and due to his speed pivot grabs catch people off guard, just play with their minds a bit and mix it up! I'm sure once you try new things and work around his nerfs, you'll be fine and you won't feel like dropping him, keep at it!

 

[TrainerRed27]

I have a question, I didn't see it in the thread or maybe it was there I just read right over it, but does anyone know what are the inputs for a "spin dash shield cancel bounce"? I didn't see it posted in the thread anywhere...

 

[Kulty]

If anything, I find him more interesting to play now since I have to be more careful with what I do, and in doing so I've become a lot better by not committing to anything that could end up in a hard punish. I like playing rush down, so I rely mostly on his speed rather than his power, so racking up damage isn't much of a problem. Once you're in their face and keep the pressure up and exploit their defence, then you're good to go! If you have trouble approaching, mix it up rather than just spin dashing because that's just incredibly boring. Short hop nair sour spot > utilt > fair is quite fun if you get it! but however you approach depends entirely on who you're playing. Work on your pivoting, his pivot fsmash is literally one of his best punishes for people attacking whilst landing, and due to his speed pivot grabs catch people off guard, just play with their minds a bit and mix it up! I'm sure once you try new things and work around his nerfs, you'll be fine and you won't feel like dropping him, keep at it!

Thank you so much! Been trying to find creative ways to play Sonic (not only spin-dashing), so that I can get reward from this character. I sure try to find combos aside of Spin Dash and Spin Dash within his normal tilts and aerial moves. I won't totally drop him, but maybe put him as a secondary or a pocket character. Will definitely implement that on my gameplay.

 

[Smog Frog]

are his fsmash nerfs enough to knock him out of top tier? it still seems to kill early around the edges and kills earlier with rage...am i underselling the nerf?

 

[Luig]

Nah, the nerf isn't that bad. What is bad is the reason they keep nerfing him.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Pretty sure he keeps getting nerfed beacuse Japan terrible stagelists allow him to run way too much.
With this killpower decrease, he might as well be what he was in Brawl and aim for timeouts every single match.

 

[Smog Frog]

whats so bad? that they want to revert to ?

and you shouldnt be having to time out too much...he does have spin charge->nair at 140%~ w/ rage(like 150-160% without). and fsmash still kills decently at the edges. its a bit suspect in the center, but with rage it's killing at about 90% in the center. kbg mainly affect how well it kills at the center/opposite side.

imo aiming for timeouts every match because of a minor killpower nerf seems extreme.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

It's not about the nerf, it's about sending a message.

#T I M E O U T B O Y S

 

[Camalange]

I have a question, I didn't see it in the thread or maybe it was there I just read right over it, but does anyone know what are the inputs for a "spin dash shield cancel bounce"? I didn't see it posted in the thread anywhere...

I cover a lot of different shield cancel variants in the OP, and I will probably be doing a video on them as well as the different wavebounces soon too. Can you please try to better describe what variant or link to a timecode that has the version you're referring to?

Pretty sure he keeps getting nerfed beacuse Japan terrible stagelists allow him to run way too much.
With this killpower decrease, he might as well be what he was in Brawl and aim for timeouts every single match.

Japan also thinks Sonic is like a top 3 character. And that Luigi is bad.

Japan (as a whole) has also always been pretty bad at Smash so I hold their opinions with a shaker of salt. There are so many ways to interpret salt in this expression with this context, lol.

 

[Smog Frog]

how bad are they saying is? if its outside of top 10 i'm down for that, but if its below top 15 im sketchy.

 

[ぱみゅ]

how bad are they saying is? if its outside of top 10 i'm down for that, but if its below top 15 im sketchy.

No representation, no results.
I can't blame them for thinking Luigi is bad, if only allowing Omegas is the standard, then he's quite easy to wall out.

 

[Camalange]

No representation, no results.
I can't blame them for thinking Luigi is bad, if only allowing Omegas is the standard, then he's quite easy to wall out.

Is that really the standard?

No wonder why they're bad.

(Meanwhile the US has been playing with ****ing customs for far too long...)

 

[ぱみゅ]

In some places they are (or at least, used to be). I remember noticing how Japanese players were uncomfortable when getting down from a platform during APEX.


And customs are good, some of them are annoying at best (except Helicopter Kick, **** that one).

 

[da K.I.D.]

Customs are gdlk

They will live on forever. Also, i never went for super low percent kills like that so this shouldnt affect me much

 

[TrainerRed27]

I cover a lot of different shield cancel variants in the OP, and I will probably be doing a video on them as well as the different wavebounces soon too. Can you please try to better describe what variant or link to a timecode that has the version you're referring to?

I go to shield cancel my spin dash in the opposite direction, and instead of just a regular turn around, my momentum continues in the opposite direction, similar to the a Wave Bounce. I think its similar to the inputs of the "Bouncing ISDJ," but instead of pressing attack, you shield.

 

[Login_Sinker]

I have a question. One thing I see pro Sonics do a lot is come down from they air in a Spin Dash, and then they do a little bounce off the ground as soon as they land. 6WX does it here: https://youtu.be/QC02btZXmSU?t=41s Whenever, I try, I just end up doing the really high, laggier Spin Dash Jump. Is there a trick to just doing the little bounce upon landing? I'd like to know because it's good for mixing up opponents, and not being trapped in the spin for as long.

 

[Damandatwin]

Can't check ATM but I believe the small bounce is done by pressing A just as you land from the initial hop in the spindash. It's kind of finnicky.

 

[Luig]

I believe it is frame perfect? Not sure but the window definitely is small.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If you dont have the ability to double jump out of you spindash, you can just mash it out when you hit the ground for the lower jump

 

[Lizam]

Adding to what the others said, if you still have your double jump you need to be frame perfect with hitting the jump button as soon as you land
This is because:
- Jumping too soon will cause you to cancel your ASD to a double jump.
- Jumping too late will cause you to perform a normal SDJ.

However, if you have used your double jump already, you can buffer your double jump (as you can no longer cancel your ASD to double jump) so that you no longer have to be frame perfect.

I don't believe you can do the buffering with "A". You need to use jump (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[Login_Sinker]

Oh, I see. Thanks!