Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Camalange]

What do I do against Sheik? I have no idea on how to fight that character so everyone please give me whatever you've got on the MU.

Like, what are the best approach options? What should I do/be prepared for when she is approaching me? How to deal with needles? How to edgeguard her? How to not get edgeguarded? How to juggle? How to not be juggled? What to do in neutral and what not to do? Is there anything I can do to stop her from f-air comboing me to hell and back? How should I DI her attacks/grabs? Best ways to avoid her kill setups? What stages should I ban/CP against her and why?

I know I'm asking a lot here....basically a complete breakdown of the MU. Sorry, but I do not have any videos of me vs Sheik either but if I get some I'll link them. I just really need to learn this MU considering she is the best character in the game which means that I will run into her often at high level play. Any and all help is appreciated.

I wish that ANY of my matches against Sheik, such as Vinnie, were ever recorded so I could reference them in this situation.

sigh

The video thread really needs some cleaning.. like grouping vids by player and by MUs.

I know... I'm painfully aware.

I've been desperate trying to find someone who could take on that project. I currently just don't have the time.

I found success in delegating the tournament results thread and the match-up thread to some lovely volunteers but the video archive has always been a headache.

APPLICATIONS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC PEOPLE

halp

 

[Kupo Rose]

Ill do it Cammy.

 

[Camalange]

Ill do it Cammy.

Will you really?

You already know that I love you, but I'd be even more grateful if you did. I can even assist you with it if you need a hand, I just know I can't take the whole thing on myself and would need some such as yourself designated to be the head of it.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Aye sound. Ill be alright, shouldnt be a problem.

 

[Camalange]

Aye sound. Ill be alright, shouldnt be a problem.

ty bby~

I have to go through the proper channels first, but I'll start the process of making you the new owner of that thread.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

So uh.....Orochi how is that video on BSBS coming along.....just curious.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Kinda at a halt due to present me needing more footage and past me lending my recording equipment so my TO team could record a tourney I couldn't attend to this past weekend.

Hopefully it will be done by the end of this month I promise

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Ah alright, I mainly asked because hopefully we can bring this to the attention of the masses soon so that maybe Sakurai and the dev team can fix it the same way they eventually fixed that bug where pac man could send hydrant through stages (took them ages to fix it).

Though unless someone who goes to EVO walks up to Bill Trinen (cuz he is gonna be entering EVO) and explains to him that this needs to get fixed.

 

[Damandatwin]

Two things I've been wondering about:

1) I read somewhere here a while ago that spindash cancelled into shield cancelled into grab (while running) is better than dash-grab, I guess because sonic's dash-grab leaves him vulnerable for a while if you whiff. However, I never actually see anyone using it. Is it not actually that good, or are people just not using it because they don't know/care about it?

2) Ledge trumps seem pretty important in this game. I can do them fairly consistently with some other characters, but I don't think I've ever done one with sonic. Can he not do them? Is it just really hard? Is it worth learning how to do them with Sonic?

 

[KeetZ]

I've seen the video where a Sonic uses his up b and cancels the ascension while going through a platform.
Can anyone give me information about this tech and how to perform it?

 

[Camalange]

1) I read somewhere here a while ago that spindash cancelled into shield cancelled into grab (while running) is better than dash-grab, I guess because sonic's dash-grab leaves him vulnerable for a while if you whiff. However, I never actually see anyone using it. Is it not actually that good, or are people just not using it because they don't know/care about it?

In terms of ending lag, it's better. It puts Sonic in a neutral stance so he's technically doing a standing grab instead of a dash grab out of a full run, but I don't know for a fact if it comes out any faster or slower than a traditional dash grab.

I guess I always feel like depending on the distance, that putting in the commands for Side-B > Shield Cancel > Grab would just take me longer to get the punish. It's something I wanted to make myself test more, to be honest. I want to know if it's actually, in all senses, superior to a dash grab.

I think it's also more telegraphed than a dash grab since you would hear the SDSC.

2) Ledge trumps seem pretty important in this game. I can do them fairly consistently with some other characters, but I don't think I've ever done one with sonic. Can he not do them? Is it just really hard? Is it worth learning how to do them with Sonic?

Every character can trump, it's just a matter of wether or not they get a guaranteed follow-up from it.

Sonic doesn't. I sometimes catch people off guard with a trump > Bair but it's not foolproof. Trump is usually just better for stage control, but there's a decent amount of tools to avoid the trump, such as buffering a roll from the ledge immediately as you grab it.

I've seen the video where a Sonic uses his up b and cancels the ascension while going through a platform.
Can anyone give me information about this tech and how to perform it?

> Plant a spring below a platform.
> Touch the ground.
> Jump on the spring.
> Dair as you're passing the platform.
> Dair platform cancel.

 

[NeonSpeed315]

How can I generally use evasive techniques and movements so that I don't get hit?

Are any of sonics movement options great for evasive and/or patience options? How could I use them in said way?

 

[Skyfox2000]

I have a question when i am off stage and when i use Sonic's Side B off the stage how do i cancel it? I'm falling to my doom as well!

 

[ぱみゅ]

I have a question when i am off stage and when i use Sonic's Side B off the stage how do i cancel it? I'm falling to my doom as well!

To cancel it you must have your second jump still available, and then just initiate SD and at any given moment, press Jump or Attack.

 

[Damandatwin]

I have a question when i am off stage and when i use Sonic's Side B off the stage how do i cancel it? I'm falling to my doom as well!

If you don't have a jump you're screwed, so don't use side B or down B off the stage without a jump (although down B has a pretty low angle so sometimes you can use it to mix up your recovery even without a jump, if you were above the stage to begin with). If you do have a jump, you can jump to cancel it.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Thanks @ ぱみゅ and @ Damandatwin

Does anyone else keep getting screwed with the homing attack and go off screen? Like ALOT?

 

[dumcb]

Is Sonic's Nair a good "get off me" button? For example I know if Luigi, Yoshi, etc are under pressure they can toss out their nairs. If not, what should I do in these situations?

 

[Pkkum]

Hey i wondering if this could be a good method to kinda help sonics problem with projectiles

Sonic's grounded spring seems to be high enough so that when he lands/dair/jumps on it, he dodges a lot of other characters projectiles
I tested this with some projectiles characters it goes over falcos laser mewtwo fully charged shadow ball foxes lasers, and im guess a lot more mid height projectiles so to speak but i need to do more testing

Sonic also keeps his double jump , and homing and spin dash options , so he can land more effectivly and the spring last for about four jumps and then it can be resetted and also a lot of projectile characters are to slow to punish it, but i guess not fox but then you could try to land with double jump/ spin dash

could this be a way to out camp the projectile campers , it was just something i was hypothesizing about ?

Rip this apart as harshly as you can :0

 

[ROOOOY!]

Is Sonic's Nair a good "get off me" button? For example I know if Luigi, Yoshi, etc are under pressure they can toss out their nairs. If not, what should I do in these situations?

Not really. Nair is only really a combo ender, or the later hits to start one. Also good for punishing airdodges. If you're in the air with a falcon uairing you or a sheik or whatever you're going to end up eating a fair bit of damage its not really avoidable. Your main focus should be getting back to ground, rather than trying to contest the hits because you're going to lose vs most characters. If you're above them being juggled, use homing attack to mess with their timing sometimes.

If you're on the ground getting pressured from someone in the air who's floating aerials in and out against your shield you could retreat a nair I guess, but the problem is its range. You could VSCJ too if you've got the time, seems to beat out a lot more than nair does. Sonics OoS options are bad all round though to be honest, against some characters you're better off running away and resetting to neutral.


As for ^ grounded spring doesn't stick around long enough to be helpful IMO. That and you don't want to be in the air as Sonic, because his options for approaching from the air (which I'm assuming is the aim rather than stalling) are somehow less safe than his grounded ones lol. You're best off just shielding any projectiles coming your way unless they're Luigi's lolfireballs or something because you're going to make up the ground quickly so they won't be using them safely for long.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Up air is the closest thing he has to a combo breaker.

And you can platform cancel off of a respring?

 

[Camalange]

Is Sonic's Nair a good "get off me" button? For example I know if Luigi, Yoshi, etc are under pressure they can toss out their nairs. If not, what should I do in these situations?

Not really. Definitely nowhere near the level of Luigi or Yoshi.

All we really have is maybe a falling Uair or airdodge, and airdodge sucks in this game so...

You can try and spring in some situations but that's not really amazing either as spring may not come out fast enough, or you just immediately throw away stage positioning.

This is something I talked about with Sonics the other day, primarily Blue. He was saying how people were giving him a hard time because he airdodges too much and he was like, "What else can Sonic do? Nair?" lmao

And you can platform cancel off of a respring?

Yeah.

Orochi has a video of it somewhere. Basically you jump on a spring and Dair, then boom, platform cancel.

 

[Damandatwin]

Based on the frame data we got recently, it looks like spring comes out the earliest (frame 4) compared to frame 5 for uair and fair. So I guess spring is the best "get off me" option barring air dodge?

 

[Lizam]

Based on the frame data we got recently, it looks like spring comes out the earliest (frame 4) compared to frame 5 for uair and fair. So I guess spring is the best "get off me" option barring air dodge?

True, but then you're sent up into the air into a disadvantage state, which is especially bad against characters with high mobility (most high tier characters) who can follow your landing. I sometimes get into a bad habit of doing this, and experienced players will punish me for it.

 

[Damandatwin]

True, but then you're sent up into the air into a disadvantage state, which is especially bad against characters with high mobility (most high tier characters) who can follow your landing. I sometimes get into a bad habit of doing this, and experienced players will punish me for it.

That's a good point. I often find myself getting punished for using dair too much on-stage, and most of the time I dair on stage it's because I just used spring to escape. So maybe using a slightly slower option sometimes would be better.

 

[Camalange]

If you guys still aren't chasing and punishing airdodges with Spring > Dair at the top of the stage you're missing out on one of Sonic's most useful mix-ups right now.

 

[da K.I.D.]

And if somebody like luigi or zss tries to chase you to the top of the screen, dont be afraid to challenge them with dair, ive gotten kills as low as 50 with it

 

[Camalange]

Definitely an option, but be aware that if you flub timing, you'll die pretty easy to ZSS or most character with a stronger Uair, like Rosaluma. Same thing goes for the Dair mix-up if you don't read an airdodge... Can just get Uair'd and die.

 

[messiahfreak2000]

How viable is a camp/timer scam strategy with Sonic? Going into EVO, I've been working on being evasive and campy against stronger players and when I get the lead.

 

[Damandatwin]

It is extremely effective at making people want to strangle you with the GC controller cord.

On a more serious note, I dunno.

 

[Camalange]

You'll be a blast at parties.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Defensive play is based on patterns, if your opponent can figure out the holes in your patterns you will lose

 

[KeetZ]

What's the consensus for dthrows? Is it viable? I use it a lot on my opponents at lower percents.

 

[Camalange]

What's the consensus for dthrows? Is it viable? I use it a lot on my opponents at lower percents.

Most people suck and still don't tech our Dthrow even though it's mad easy. I missed it like once, maybe twice in my million Sonic dittos at KTAR.

So if you know your opinion won't tech those, it's good for mid-percent tech chases, otherwise, I save them for grabbing near the ledge if I'm facing it. Launches them at a good angle.

At the lowest percents, you should always Uthrow. Uthrow guarantees a Uair follow-up. Also, Uthrow is just great in general because forcing your opponent to be above you puts them in juggle situations and forces them to try and land safely, which is the worst position to be in for this game.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I often opt for the techchase tho. idk, I like doing that even if the damage is just not as good.

 

[Camalange]

I often opt for the techchase tho. idk, I like doing that even if the damage is just not as good.

I sometimes do Dthrow early game just to see how my opponent reacts to it. If they're bad, I'll use it more in game for tech chases. At 0 or below 15% or so really, you're being really inefficient if you don't take the free damage from Uthrow follow-ups...

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ive been working on optimizing my up thros stuff.

At zero if youup throw and go for a full jump up air youll only get the second hit. But if you do a instant double jump yoi can get both hits. Butagainst certain characters you want to stick to the normal jump second hit up air because then you can double jump afterward and get another up air. And around 20, you can do up throw i to a quick double jump nair, which is the best damage you can get, but you have to drift away from them after the hit because nair lasts so long and you can get punished on hit

 

[Yunior597]

what are the kill % of sonic? i cant find them anywhere in forum.

And updated

 

[dumcb]

Hey! Just a quick note, I feel it would be beneficial to add RAR to your list of general terminology in the opening post, but you did a great job on the rest of the acronyms.

 

[Jords2Good]

Skip to 12:45

It would be nice to actually do this
第1回SHIGリーグオンライン部門7/8 決勝 Canpy vs Shuton/SHIG Leag…: https://youtu.be/cvqszrBoNew

I believe the inputs to doing this is, reverse side b - backwards roll - and holding shield.
I'm most likely wrong but I was wondering how one can do this consistently?

I can somewhat do what hes doing but instead when he pulls back still facing forward, the way I do it is when I pull back I end up facing the other way.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So far, we have no ****ing idea on how to do that, unfortunately.

http://gfycat.com/GoodSkeletalIberianemeraldlizard