Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Beets]

This is your first message and you joined in 2010?

 

[yope3041]

Yeah, IDK why I made this account then but I only really started lurking a couple months ago and when I tried to register it said my email was already used. The end.

 

[cerealkiller]

Downsmash can get people off the ledge and is also an option for the snapledge vulnerability. I'm guessing Downtilt would get them too.

 

[Pivot]

What is the general consensus on the Falcon matchup? The Falcons think it is 50:50. Agree? Disagree?

Also, on a more technical level, what is the throw of choice facing a ledge with a grab? Let's say the opponent is around 100%.

 

[J.APS]

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask this in, but aside from angled down FSmash, what are Sonic's options to knock someone who is hanging off a ledge?

Sometimes, full charged Upsmash works, Dsmash and Dtilt too.

What is the general consensus on the Falcon matchup? The Falcons think it is 50:50. Agree? Disagree?

Also, on a more technical level, what is the throw of choice facing a ledge with a grab? Let's say the opponent is around 100%.

Well..I go with Dthrow to Dair spike or Fair

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, IDK why I made this account then but I only really started lurking a couple months ago and when I tried to register it said my email was already used. The end.

Well, thanks for choosing Sonic boards, lol.
Down-angled Fsmash, Dsmash, and Dtilt all connect (Dtilt is more character specific I believe, as some characters don't poke their heads over the ledge).

What is the general consensus on the Falcon matchup? The Falcons think it is 50:50. Agree? Disagree?

I think I can agree with even.

Also, on a more technical level, what is the throw of choice facing a ledge with a grab? Let's say the opponent is around 100%.

Dthrow. Better off-stage positioning and damage. Fthrow won't kill.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask this in, but aside from angled down FSmash, what are Sonic's options to knock someone who is hanging off a ledge?

From the moveset thread..

Sonic's Ledge Shenanigans:

First two columns are about Ledgesnap Vulnerability and the rest are about hitting a non-invincible opponent that's hanging onto the ledge.

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Uhkpn1CRe0U_Ci-8I3JqmpBznUx2TRdCE_DYWxOLk3o/pubhtml

 

[cerealkiller]

Jeez, look at that file, so many variations... you really need years of practice and a good head to make the best out of your character against each and every other character.

 

[da K.I.D.]

What moves knock people off the ledge? Down angled f smash, down smash, and down air should be your go tos.

Falcon matchup, i think sonic wins it, but i dont care about matchup ratios at all. Huge waste of time.

What to do with a grab facing the ledge at 100? Either dow. Throw if they are heavy or have a bad recovery, or back throw and try to sneak an up smash underneath them if they are light.

 

[JS2D]

Hey guys, I have a question about default spin dash. Yesterday I was watching a game where the Shiek player grabbed Sonic right out of his spin dash, while he was advancing with the move. How strict is the timing to get the grab? When is it possible to grab Sonic out of it? I keep trying but always get hit by the move.

 

[LXG]

Does anyone know how to B Reverse Sonic's Spin Dash (Side B)? I saw someone do it on For Glory.

 

[J.APS]

Does anyone know how to B Reverse Sonic's Spin Dash (Side B)? I saw someone do it on For Glory.

Idk...run, flick the stick and press B?

 

[Camalange]

Hey guys, I have a question about default spin dash. Yesterday I was watching a game where the Shiek player grabbed Sonic right out of his spin dash, while he was advancing with the move. How strict is the timing to get the grab? When is it possible to grab Sonic out of it? I keep trying but always get hit by the move.

Pivot grabbing is probably the easiest way. Especially if you have a tether.

DKWill does it a lot with DK's pivot grab, for example.

 

[vegeta18]

is hammer spindash always better than the default one? i find that on stages like bf or lylat it feels worse because i cant do it on the ground without landing on the platform. Im trying to get better with hammer spindash but i seem to do a lot better with the regular one right now

 

[Camalange]

is hammer spindash always better than the default one? i find that on stages like bf or lylat it feels worse because i cant do it on the ground without landing on the platform. Im trying to get better with hammer spindash but i seem to do a lot better with the regular one right now

I personally don't use hammer. You'd have to ask other people more experienced with it. Some people think hammer is OP, but I don't see it. I think it just catches a lot of people off guard and works well on certain characters and stages.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't really like it either... It's another move tagged as "OP/jank" because people don't bother to learn how to deal with it.

It has about as low priority (disjoint/damage) as default Spin Dash , and can't be used for quick punishes.
I mostly use it to mix recoveries up and punish someone who tries to land in a platform, but that's about it. I like regular Spin Dash more.

 

[Phill-Bot]

How did 6WX do this? http://youtu.be/s_6l0SHsKbY?t=52s

He goes from an ASD to a VSDJ seamlessly. I've brought this up before, but from the answers I got, as I suspected, I still have no clue how to execute it after trying to do it in training. Apparently colliding with anything will put sonic into what's called a 'lyric roll' (when sonic's SDR or SCR slows down and sonic becomes a circle rather than a oval). Only way I can consistently pull off a lyric roll is with a low charged SCR. A spin DASH roll on the other hand does not seem to slow down to a lyric roll when colliding with a character (even low charged). Seems to only activate after going almost the full length of a stage. So I'm able to do a VSDJ from a SCR lyric roll, even then sonic's trajectory sometimes doesn't go straight vertically, but I can't do a VSDJ from a SDR (or at least the short distance, like in the video). Any help?

 

[Camalange]

How did 6WX do this? http://youtu.be/s_6l0SHsKbY?t=52s

He goes from an ASD to a VSDJ seamlessly. I've brought this up before, but from the answers I got, as I suspected, I still have no clue how to execute it after trying to do it in training. Apparently colliding with anything will put sonic into what's called a 'lyric roll' (when sonic's SDR or SCR slows down and sonic becomes a circle rather than a oval). Only way I can consistently pull off a lyric roll is with a low charged SCR. A spin DASH roll on the other hand does not seem to slow down to a lyric roll when colliding with a character (even low charged). Seems to only activate after going almost the full length of a stage. So I'm able to do a VSDJ from a SCR lyric roll, even then sonic's trajectory sometimes doesn't go straight vertically, but I can't do a VSDJ from a SDR (or at least the short distance, like in the video). Any help?

Answer is still the same. There's really not much more to it. Anything else I say will be repeating myself...

ASD goes into SDR... SDR collides with shield and it's going slow as you can see by how it lingers on shield, thus putting it in Slow Spin Roll or Lyric Roll, and from there he taps jump to get what is basically a VSDJ.

And again, ways to create this is from a minimally charged Spin, or I think perhaps the timing of when they put up shield and you hit it can cause a Lyric Roll. Hard to explain, but it's definitely something you can see and feel.

Try delaying the jump input? It's not really a situation you can force often.

 

[Phill-Bot]

Answer is still the same. There's really not much more to it. Anything else I say will be repeating myself...

ASD goes into SDR... SDR collides with shield and it's going slow as you can see by how it lingers on shield, thus putting it in Slow Spin Roll or Lyric Roll, and from there he taps jump to get what is basically a VSDJ.

And again, ways to create this is from a minimally charged Spin, or I think perhaps the timing of when they put up shield and you hit it can cause a Lyric Roll. Hard to explain, but it's definitely something you can see and feel.

Try delaying the jump input? It's not really a situation you can force often.

It must be the fact that I'm trying to do it in training and not colliding with a shield. Also, interesting to know it's not something Sonics can do on command, depends on the opponent too.

 

[Camalange]

It must be the fact that I'm trying to do it in training and not colliding with a shield. Also, interesting to know it's not something Sonics can do on command, depends on the opponent too.

Yeah, I suppose to elaborate, I'm near positive that in order to get that kind of jump effect from a Lyric Roll, it needs to collide with shield.

Definitely depends on your opponent's reaction, which is why you won't see it much. It's not as simple as just doing an order of inputs and getting it every time.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If you need to experiment, you can use the statues on the second pase of castle siege to activate the slow roll

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

I think the inputs for spin charge spinshot are slightly off. Spin Charge doesn't get released until you release the control stick, releasing the b button just stops the charge. therefore, you would release the control stick right before you do the jump of the spinshot.

Although I might be wrong.

 

[Camalange]

I think the inputs for spin charge spinshot are slightly off. Spin Charge doesn't get released until you release the control stick, releasing the b button just stops the charge. therefore, you would release the control stick right before you do the jump of the spinshot.

Although I might be wrong.

Hm, you could be right.

It's possible I just release the joystick by second nature after doing it for so long. I'll look more into it when I have the chance.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Hm, you could be right.

It's possible I just release the joystick by second nature after doing it for so long. I'll look more into it when I have the chance.

I guess this might be why I struggle so much with down b spinshots.

 

[Camalange]

I guess this might be why I struggle so much with down b spinshots.

Nope.

Just tested it. Still works while holding down on the joystick.

I hold down, release B, C-stick up.

 

[Damandatwin]

Guys, check this out:

It looks like 6WX tried to have ITO land on the spring from the respawn platform and then immediately bair him. It seems pretty gimmicky (it didn't even work here since ITO DI'd the other way) but it might be useful if used sparingly.

Never saw it before so I thought I'd share it here.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You cant do anything to them because theyre still invincible at that point

 

[Camalange]

Right, it's best used just to steal their invincy frames, not to actually combo during the respawn.

However, the same logic can be applied to gimmick punish landings if used sparingly, as you suggested. I think we had a stupid name for it, but I forget.

 

[Popi]

Hey guys! Sorry for posting my own thread about this before :/

So like, how do I play the Marth matchup if the Marth plays defensive af? I usually win against him but it's frustrating to get tippered every time I approach.

 

[Camalange]

Running shield.

Or just don't approach because you don't have to. Marth can't force you to approach, and his approaches aren't that good now.

 

[Popi]

Thanks! Are there any moves Sonic has that can out prioritize tipper fairs or shield breakers?

 

[da K.I.D.]

@ cam. The anthinus combo. Aka the sky dragon combo Lol.

When you set up for it with weak hit dash attack.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Thanks! Are there any moves Sonic has that can out prioritize tipper fairs or shield breakers?

You don't outprioritize it. You wait for it, bait it and punish Marth for trying it.

 

[Camalange]

So I effectively used ISDJ in brackets and hit confirmed. Didn't flub it once.

Use ISDJ more, people.

@ cam. The anthinus combo. Aka the sky dragon combo Lol.

When you set up for it with weak hit dash attack.

lmao yeah. That was it.

You don't outprioritize it. You wait for it, bait it and punish Marth for trying it.

tl;dr don't get hit

 

[NeonSpeed315]

Hello guys, I'm a fairly good sonic but I haven't bothered to check the boards for sonic much yet. I really don't have any questions but 3, since (not to sound cocky) my sonic is pretty much on point as of now.

1. Do you really need to learn all the excessive AT's? I really don't use any but spindash cancel and occasionally spinshot/spinshot tomahawk. And its working out perfectly, but I wonder if I should even try ISDJ.

2. How do you bypass being walled out with people with superior range, and/or bypass mega man neutral a use (not FG Spam)? That's my only real problem with sonic.

3. How to mix up landings better? I usually feign a spindash landing then double jump and turn in air and etc, but I'd like to know if any more options exist.

 

[NeonSpeed315]

Oh one last thing, is it worth tryna ledge trump? I lean towards the edge guarding side more than trumpingtrumping bcuz his speed makes it hard, but I suppose if I full hop and land on the edge right after they do, the trumping will be easier.

 

[BlackPhantom]

Oh one last thing, is it worth tryna ledge trump? I lean towards the edge guarding side more than trumpingtrumping bcuz his speed makes it hard, but I suppose if I full hop and land on the edge right after they do, the trumping will be easier.

Never seen any sonic besides 6wx do it, and I have only seen him do it a handful of times. So if you wanna try, then sure.

Hello guys, I'm a fairly good sonic but I haven't bothered to check the boards for sonic much yet. I really don't have any questions but 3, since (not to sound cocky) my sonic is pretty much on point as of now.

1. Do you really need to learn all the excessive AT's? I really don't use any but spindash cancel and occasionally spinshot/spinshot tomahawk. And its working out perfectly, but I wonder if I should even try ISDJ.

2. How do you bypass being walled out with people with superior range, and/or bypass mega man neutral a use (not FG Spam)? That's my only real problem with sonic.

3. How to mix up landings better? I usually feign a spindash landing then double jump and turn in air and etc, but I'd like to know if any more options exist.

For number 2, watch Izaw vs. Ixis. Best link vs best sonic in Europe. Ixis does a great job of breaking link's projectile wall but unfortunately loses the set.

 

[NeonSpeed315]

Never seen any sonic besides 6wx do it, and I have only seen him do it a handful of times. So if you wanna try, then sure.


For number 2, watch Izaw vs. Ixis. Best link vs best sonic in Europe. Ixis does a great job of breaking link's projectile wall but unfortunately loses the set.

I'm not having trouble with any Zoners excluding mega man. I can handle link, Villy, etc somewhat well.

 

[StarGalaxy777]

Hi I was was wondering since Sonic is the fastest thing around and I essentially have a hard time against faster characters I was hoping to know if you guys/gals (gender equality) would be able to tell me what characters gives Sonic trouble and since speed is you guys/gals kind of deal I figured you'd be the best people to ask. The reason I'm asking this is because I was looking for a secondary and would appreciate any info you can spare thanks..

 

[BlackPhantom]

I'm not having trouble with any Zoners excluding mega man. I can handle link, Villy, etc somewhat well.

I know but the MU in neutral is sorta the same concept.