Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[BlackPhantom]

Hi I was was wondering since Sonic is the fastest thing around and I essentially have a hard time against faster characters I was hoping to know if you guys/gals (gender equality) would be able to tell me what characters gives Sonic trouble and since speed is you guys/gals kind of deal I figured you'd be the best people to ask. The reason I'm asking this is because I was looking for a secondary and would appreciate any info you can spare thanks..

Uh sheik, rosa, wario, and stuff lol

Wassup Orochi, still doing that guide or have you dropped it?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

A full-fledged guide? Didn't even start thinking about it yet.

BSBS for the moment, updating the moveset thread second and then, maybe, just maybe, consider working on a guide.

The main issue is.. balance patches. Maybe short videos would work better this time around (just like the ones Cam's been making).

Hi I was was wondering since Sonic is the fastest thing around and I essentially have a hard time against faster characters I was hoping to know if you guys/gals (gender equality) would be able to tell me what characters gives Sonic trouble and since speed is you guys/gals kind of deal I figured you'd be the best people to ask. The reason I'm asking this is because I was looking for a secondary and would appreciate any info you can spare thanks..

Top tiers.

Seriously.

Possibly Ryu (who is gonna be a top tier as well anyway).

 

[Camalange]

A full-fledged guide? Didn't even start thinking about it yet.

BSBS for the moment, updating the moveset thread second and then, maybe, just maybe, consider working on a guide.

The main issue is.. balance patches. Maybe short videos would work better this time around (just like the ones Cam's been making).

That's been precisely my fear. I mean, look at us now. It's a mess.

Top tiers.

Seriously.

I'm having a harder and harder time trying to decide if Sonic truly has the advantage against anyone in top tier.

And with each patch we lose early KO options, so I wonder how long we even deserve to be considered top tier, lol.

 

[NeonSpeed315]

That's been precisely my fear. I mean, look at us now. It's a mess.

I'm having a harder and harder time trying to decide if Sonic truly has the advantage against anyone in top tier.

And with each patch we lose early KO options, so I wonder how long we even deserve to be considered top tier, lol.

Agreed. We lost our early kill throw and we now lost our best smash attack. If fsmash/bair/spring gimpiing gets nerfed somehow, we will be mostly brawl sonic with priority...

 

[Camalange]

Even though Usmash had the most knockback, I'd argue that Fsmash was still the better smash. With it's disjointed range and decent cooldown, it was a safer option and still kills early. Bair is still good, but hard to set-up.

I had an interesting conversation with 6WX and he pretty much agreed that most of our top tier match-ups primarily range from slight disadvantage to even. He also felt that if we still had our old Bthrow, we'd basically be at least even with everyone in top tier.

These are still pretty good ratios considering some character lose or are straight up invalidated by some top tiers, but it helps put our character in perspective. lmao for worst top tier?

 

[NeonSpeed315]

Even though Usmash had the most knockback, I'd argue that Fsmash was still the better smash. With it's disjointed range and decent cooldown, it was a safer option and still kills early. Bair is still good, but hard to set-up.

I had an interesting conversation with 6WX and he pretty much agreed that most of our top tier match-ups primarily range from slight disadvantage to even. He also felt that if we still had our old Bthrow, we'd basically be at least even with everyone in top tier.

These are still pretty good ratios considering some character lose or are straight up invalidated by some top tiers, but it helps put our character in perspective. lmao for worst top tier?

Yes, lmao XD

Do we not still have a favorable MU against Villager and Ness?

you're right about fsmash tho.

Is there a way for me to contact 6wx? I mainly reside on 3ds as of now but I'm training so hard to be his lvl, I'm almost there. Just need to workwork out a few cinks in my armor.

Lastly, I'm not sure i f I ever got an answer, so, sorry to sound redundant, but is it worth it to learn advanced techs? I only spinshot and spindash cancel, should I learn the Instant spindash jump or etc.?

 

[NipahAllDay]

Even though Usmash had the most knockback, I'd argue that Fsmash was still the better smash. With it's disjointed range and decent cooldown, it was a safer option and still kills early. Bair is still good, but hard to set-up.

I had an interesting conversation with 6WX and he pretty much agreed that most of our top tier match-ups primarily range from slight disadvantage to even. He also felt that if we still had our old Bthrow, we'd basically be at least even with everyone in top tier.

These are still pretty good ratios considering some character lose or are straight up invalidated by some top tiers, but it helps put our character in perspective. lmao for worst top tier?

We sonic mains have it rough(not bad as diddy mains tho)

 

[Camalange]

Yes, lmao XD

Do we not still have a favorable MU against Villager and Ness?

you're right about fsmash tho.

I guess those are debatable. They're kind of a toss-up for a lot of people. I think we may have the advantages there, but Villager can be really hard if they play right.

Lastly, I'm not sure i f I ever got an answer, so, sorry to sound redundant, but is it worth it to learn advanced techs? I only spinshot and spindash cancel, should I learn the Instant spindash jump or etc.?

Why wouldn't you try to learn everything your character has to offer?

Even if you don't use it every second, you never know when it can come in handy. Plus it just gives you more control of your character and knowledge of your character in general and can separate you from the rest or pull through in a clutch moment.

Example of ISDJ use in tournament.

We sonic mains have it rough(not bad as diddy mains tho)

We're definitely better than Diddy, even though regardless of overall placing I think we won that match-up in the previous patch too.

 

[NipahAllDay]

@ Camalange Btw I got a question. What is the best strategy to beat Rosalina and Sheik because they are few of those characters I have trouble against as Sonic. I can beat them, but they're annoying to deal with.

 

[Kaladin]

Could someone point me towards an actual BnB/sonic basics guide? This is all ATs.

 

[Camalange]

@ Camalange Btw I got a question. What is the best strategy to beat Rosalina and Sheik because they are few of those characters I have trouble against as Sonic. I can beat them, but they're annoying to deal with.

We covered them in the match-up thread but if you want more specific advice I can help from there. I think I'm finally understanding the Rosa match-up after playing Dabuz on more than one occasion and the Sheik match-up I have experience falling out my ass.

Could someone point me towards an actual BnB/sonic basics guide? This is all ATs.

The moveset thread will help with some very basic BnB and general things like that, but as of now, there's no real overall how-to-play I can recommend yet (as myself or Orochi haven't made one ) The complications that come with this are the nature of this game constantly getting patched, and a full guide takes a long time to edit.

 

[J.APS]

Idk where to put this...but..is a question so...
the blast lines for the 3DS are more..distant from the stage than the WiiU version?
cuz I was testing on the WiiU the values for the Dair spike and...I got this

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, pretty sure they are.

3DS version ain't the standard anyway...

Also, updated the OP with some things. We have a proper catalogue now of all the changes we got through the patches!

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I hate how apparently if we use Burning spin dash now and jump it causes BSBS even when used on the ground first without doing anything but tapping jump......last i checked that wasn't a thing before........Sakurai Plz help us.

 

[NipahAllDay]

We covered them in the match-up thread but if you want more specific advice I can help from there. I think I'm finally understanding the Rosa match-up after playing Dabuz on more than one occasion and the Sheik match-up I have experience falling out my ***.

Where can I find the thread?

 

[Camalange]

Don't worry, just wait for the whole customs thing to blow over.

Where can I find the thread?

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-and-the-book-of-matchups-chapter-9-yoshi.390575/

Look at our stickies, fool.

 

[NipahAllDay]

Don't worry, just wait for the whole customs thing to blow over.

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-and-the-book-of-matchups-chapter-9-yoshi.390575/

Look at our stickies, fool.

Thank you.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I hate how apparently if we use Burning spin dash now and jump it causes BSBS even when used on the ground first without doing anything but tapping jump......last i checked that wasn't a thing before........Sakurai Plz help us.

I believe this was always a thing. I mean, the SDJ will always be BSBS'd when using BSD.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Can you guys point me in the direction of any Sonic's who are particularly adept at the and MUs? I wanna check out some videos on how to deal with those MUs a bit better. Thanks.

 

[spiNR]

Hey guys. I'm not sure if this is something I should be posting here but I figured I could be directed to where I can get some advice.

Anyway, for the life of me, I have no ledge game. None. What are your tips for improving in that area of the game?

 

[J.APS]

Anyway, for the life of me, I have no ledge game. None. What are your tips for improving in that area of the game?

hm... Bair, Fair off stage, Fsmash to the edge, Usmash, Dtilt, the spring, Dair spike or stage spike, maybe HA...

 

[Tha_Crystal_Gemz]

Didn't read stickies, sorry for making random thread. Can someone give advice...or something:
----
I main Peach and Duck Hunt. I don't have a terrible time with Sonic in general just when players use no other move but the spindash/homing one. With Peach, I shield the move and grab, I use Toad/turnips yet I still get bested by some of the spamming Sonics. With DHD, I try to camp the hell outta him and can/cowboy it up but again, sometimes I lose. Is there any way around the spamming? Even when I sit still and try to punish, that does not work.
----
Actually read a little of Sonic's weakness thread when I briefly had time, so pretty much jabbing and tilting is the way to go? Really?

 

[superange]

Few questions for Sonic.

1.Which customs are best for him? I'm fairly satisfied with his original B moveset but haven't dabbled in customs yet (mostly because I haven't played in a tournament with customs).

2.I know Sonic is considered one of the best characters but what's a solid secondary for him? I really like Mewtwo, Shulk, Ryu, Meta Knight, and Mega Man but I know for the first 3 especially none of them likely have favorable matchups that Sonic doesn't already has.

3.Now that most of Sonic's KO moves have been nerfed somewhat, what are his best consistent KO options besides Forward Smash?

 

[ecaflip]

So I'm putting in lab hours on sonic (because just playing mk is starting to get boring) and was wondering what stages I should be practicing on? I mean, I know I should be on all stages, but what stages does sonic really shine on?

3.Now that most of Sonic's KO moves have been nerfed somewhat, what are his best consistent KO options besides Forward Smash?

HOO(spring)HAA and uthrow > uair > spring >uair have given me reliable star KOs but its a bit more read dependent than a raw smash. Also dthrow (before 100% assuming missed tech) into a usmash can be pretty nasty. And if you wanna be a master baiter ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) reverse short hop bair makes for a really scary punish

 

[Syndralix]

3.Now that most of Sonic's KO moves have been nerfed somewhat, what are his best consistent KO options besides Forward Smash?

Whaddya mean most of them? We lost two outta six tops, and they still kill with a little extra damage.

Down-smash is good for punishing rolls, and the backward hitbox does more knockback than the forward hitbox. Up-smash is still a decent anti-air kill move. Uthrow>Spring>Uair is a guaranteed killstring at the right percent, assuming no DI - otherwise, you can bait an airdodge. If you get someone offstage, you can chase them with fairs and bairs, but dairs and springs work too if they have poor recovery. And if the stars align, Homing Attack and nair can kill as well.

 

[cerealkiller]

We really need to establish a solid definition of "KO/Kill moves". It seems to me that different people have a few different definitions for it. For me a KO move is one that 1) kills the opponent in a %-dependent way, 2) at early-mid kill percent and 3) not necessarily near the ledge or blastzones.

“And if the stars align, nair can kill as well”. Sure, put the opponent next to a blast zone at 250% and every single move becomes a KO move. I’ve killed with Nair and poor tilts before but they are not kill moves. Heck, even springs kill, they are not kill moves, they’re gimping devices.

For example:

Sonic Fair: Not a kill move. I’ve killed countless times with Fair but it’s off-stage strings and gimping-like stuff near the blastzones.

Sonic F-Smash: It’s a kill move. The opponent doesn’t have to be very high % you don’t have to be near the ledge, mid-charge you land it, boom, kill.

Back-throw: this for me felt like a kill move before and now I consider it more like a semi-KO move. I feel like it depends a lot more on the opponent and needs much more positioning and not so early kill %, but somehow works like before, therefore a semi-KO move.

Marth/Zard and others UP-Throw: For me those are KO moves. Some characters need a somehow high % but for the most part once you grab it doesn’t matter where you are on the stage, they die for sure.


Then moves like UP-Air and Down-Air make things confusing… they are used to kill a lot and are very effective but barely depend on % and they are very situational… semi-KO also?


So, what are kill moves for most of you?

 

[Syndralix]

For me, a kill move is a move that can score kills. I'm not too picky about context. =P

That being said, some kill moves are definitely better than others. Sonic's F-smash is his best kill move beyond a shadow of a doubt. And I agree that moves like F-tilt and nair are terrible at killing, but I've gotten kills with them, so for me they count, even if barely.

 

[cerealkiller]

I forgot to say that I'm not saying my definition is right. I just think that for "Smash Terminology" this one is a missing term.

And if for you F-Tilt and Nair are kill moves than there's just no point in speaking about kill moves specifically, it's just the whole moveset. But when @ superange asked about kill moves I think he was referring to just a few of them.

 

[Syndralix]

I see what you mean - you wanna narrow it down to the absolute best ones.

So let's say you take Mario to FD and set his damage to 100%. (That's reasonable, right? Sonic builds damage pretty good.) Now let's say that any single move which is likely or guaranteed to take a stock from Mario is a kill move. I just ran this test bed myself, and here's what I came back with:

• Fsmash (uncharged from edge, charged from center)
• Usmash (charged)
• Dsmash
  • Forward Hitbox: charged from edge
  • Reverse Hitbox: uncharged from edge, charged from center
• Bair (sweetspot on the very last pixel of the edge; sourspot off the edge)
• Dair spike (offstage, obviously)

I also found a couple of neat setups that lead to guaranteed kills:

• Grab > 2 pummels > Uthrow > Spring > Uair (but it only works at this specific %)
• ISDJ > slightly delayed Fair (from the edge of the stage; no seriously, this is a true combo)

 

[da K.I.D.]

Isdj is hard, how do ppl donit conc0sistently

 

[Camalange]

I think a move that can kill is different from a kill move…

Uthrow kills at like 170% but you're already in a **** spot if that's how you're getting the stock.

Can you guys point me in the direction of any Sonic's who are particularly adept at the and MUs? I wanna check out some videos on how to deal with those MUs a bit better. Thanks.

Well, we all got bodied apparently by Nick Riddle at CEO so maybe you can study those and see what went wrong.

Don't know much point of reference for Yoshi though. We just discussed him in the match-up thread and are currently tackling ZSS.

Hey guys. I'm not sure if this is something I should be posting here but I figured I could be directed to where I can get some advice.

Anyway, for the life of me, I have no ledge game. None. What are your tips for improving in that area of the game?

I can't tell if edgeguarding is bad or just underdeveloped in this game.

We don't have any true trump combos but you can sometimes catch people off-guard with trump-Bair.

Practice punishing ledge snap vulnerability. Orochi did a whole video on it.

Bair walling and Fair combos are probably the best offstage tools with occasional Dairs.

Didn't read stickies, sorry for making random thread. Can someone give advice...or something:
----
I main Peach and Duck Hunt. I don't have a terrible time with Sonic in general just when players use no other move but the spindash/homing one. With Peach, I shield the move and grab, I use Toad/turnips yet I still get bested by some of the spamming Sonics. With DHD, I try to camp the hell outta him and can/cowboy it up but again, sometimes I lose. Is there any way around the spamming? Even when I sit still and try to punish, that does not work.
----
Actually read a little of Sonic's weakness thread when I briefly had time, so pretty much jabbing and tilting is the way to go? Really?

Peach and especially Duck Hunt have good zoning tools. Learn when to use them and learn when Sonic is vulnerable, which is almost all the time.

Few questions for Sonic.

1.Which customs are best for him? I'm fairly satisfied with his original B moveset but haven't dabbled in customs yet (mostly because I haven't played in a tournament with customs).

Man, post EVO is going to be amazing.

#bancustoms

2.I know Sonic is considered one of the best characters but what's a solid secondary for him? I really like Mewtwo, Shulk, Ryu, Meta Knight, and Mega Man but I know for the first 3 especially none of them likely have favorable matchups that Sonic doesn't already has.

It's really more for your preference or what match-ups you don't like as Sonic… I would pick Mega Man out of them but that doesn't help with like, Rosaluma, who I hate.

3.Now that most of Sonic's KO moves have been nerfed somewhat, what are his best consistent KO options besides Forward Smash?

Forward Smash.


Bair.
Spring > Uair.

So I'm putting in lab hours on sonic (because just playing mk is starting to get boring) and was wondering what stages I should be practicing on? I mean, I know I should be on all stages, but what stages does sonic really shine on?

All of them.

Duck Hunt is my favorite counterpick. Most Sonics would agree that's one of our best. I personally feel #blessed for Miiverse and Dream Land 64. Town & City is sometimes fun.

HOO(spring)HAA and uthrow > uair > spring >uair have given me reliable star KOs but its a bit more read dependent than a raw smash.

Can be DI'd at kill percent, but the most reliable Spring > aerial combos are around 50-80% depending on character. You can combo kill from that percent from high platforms, otherwise it's almost always avoidable and requires reads/punishes. I'd hardly call it a Hoo-Hah...

Isdj is hard, how do ppl donit conc0sistently

git gud.

lmao r u drunk th0

tbh I use it very sparingly so that makes for a more consistent track record. It's not really something worth spamming anyway, but I've incorporated it into my tournament play.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

We don't have any true trump combos but you can sometimes catch people off-guard with trump-Bair.

We can use reverse SD to fair but it's not universal and I'm not sure if it's a true "combo" either.

tbh I use it very sparingly so that makes for a more consistent track record. It's not really something worth spamming anyway, but I've incorporated it into my tournament play.

I need to do that as well.. ISDJ to FS to Dair spike would be so much hype.

 

[Camalange]

We can use reverse SD to fair but it's not universal and I'm not sure if it's a true "combo" either.

That sounds... too slow.

I need to do that as well.. ISDJ to FS to Dair spike would be so much hype.

That'd be tight. I mostly just go for Fair as it's the safest confirm.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Reverse SD to Fair is actually quite fast, as long as you have jump assigned to one of the shoulder buttons.. We'd only be hitting with the last hit, though (it's the only one that matters anyway).

 

[ItoI6]

sometimes when sonic uses burning spin dash into my shield it hits me even though i continue to hold R the whole time. i thought maybe he was shield poking me somehow so i tilted my shield forward and yet it still sometimes happens at random it seems. does anyone know why this happens?

 

[Camalange]

sometimes when sonic uses burning spin dash into my shield it hits me even though i continue to hold R the whole time. i thought maybe he was shield poking me somehow so i tilted my shield forward and yet it still sometimes happens at random it seems. does anyone know why this happens?

I have no clue because normally BSD hitting shield puts us in 5 years of lag. Only option we have is to jump before or right as we connect with shield.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I know what causes it. I think.

It complecated

 

[kj22]

Can you guys point me in the direction of any Sonic's who are particularly adept at the and MUs? I wanna check out some videos on how to deal with those MUs a bit better. Thanks.

Google espy vs slush and espy vs paw

Should be on the YouTube channel 210smash if you can't find anything

 

[Brawlman1000]

What do I do against Sheik? I have no idea on how to fight that character so everyone please give me whatever you've got on the MU.

Like, what are the best approach options? What should I do/be prepared for when she is approaching me? How to deal with needles? How to edgeguard her? How to not get edgeguarded? How to juggle? How to not be juggled? What to do in neutral and what not to do? Is there anything I can do to stop her from f-air comboing me to hell and back? How should I DI her attacks/grabs? Best ways to avoid her kill setups? What stages should I ban/CP against her and why?

I know I'm asking a lot here....basically a complete breakdown of the MU. Sorry, but I do not have any videos of me vs Sheik either but if I get some I'll link them. I just really need to learn this MU considering she is the best character in the game which means that I will run into her often at high level play. Any and all help is appreciated.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

The video thread really needs some cleaning.. like grouping vids by player and by MUs.