Sonic General Discussion/Social thread

[Vultron]

How is SideB a kill move in the air? I've never seen it used as a kill move.

 

[Player -0]

Is it better than Nair?

 

[GabPR]

It acts more as a sort of gimp, which makes it effective at lower percents

 

[Solharath]

If your opponent is in front of you, the situation is that strong hit nair isn't going to cut it, and while Fair will hit, we all know that DI in flub fair isn't going to kill anything that Roy's fair isn't, and meteor hit isn't exactly a death sentence - but if you Aerial Side-B the trajectory is very horizontal. If you cancel immediately, you can return to the stage easily, or push the advantage, depending on where you use it. It's situational, but Sonic's good at creating situations.

It doesn't work so hot on Marth due to his Side-B, which he can whip out on reaction. Quick things like that can stop you, so use it as a mix-up or something similar. Remember, you can guide where the SideB goes pretty well by how long you hold the button for.

 

[Vultron]

That's interesting, I figured it would be like a gimp, but no Idea it would be horizontal. So in this case would it be a hard or soft Side-B?

 

[Solharath]

Depends where your opponent is. If you're right inside them and want to try to gimp them at low percents rather than go for a nair, go for a soft reverse side b toward the stage. You're very likely to get the reverse hit and put them in a bad position.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I figured out a way to get Sonic Off the ledge (Technical way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laZRnn9mnCk&list=UUAB3V5qkvUKbjygS2IgibVw To Scar Jump you press the C-stick down and then wall jump (works in Melee too) and when Down B or Spin Shot

 

[Vultron]

I figured out a way to get Sonic Off the ledge (Technical way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laZRnn9mnCk&list=UUAB3V5qkvUKbjygS2IgibVw To Scar Jump you press the C-stick down and then wall jump (works in Melee too) and when Down B or Spin Shot[/quote

That's a pretty cool mix up! Have you had the chance to actually apply it in some matches? And if so, how did it work out?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I haven't tried it yet and I tried to do it against others but I messed my Scar Jumps up

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Accident not on purpose

 

[Vultron]

Okay guys, I am getting myself upset. Not at Sonic, this is my fault. I feel like every time I play my skill is decent, but I always lose. For Example, I know and abuse everything I can get out of Sonic, then my sparring partner plays Sonic 3 times and he suddenly kicks my ass. How is he so freaking good already, and how I can pick up things like that? It is not that this was just luck with Sonic either, he does this with a lot of characters and it is infuriating that he is so good at the game, when he acts like he doesn't even care. I feel like I have hit a wall, and I can't climb over it. Any help would be nice.

 

[GabPR]

Okay guys, I am getting myself upset. Not at Sonic, this is my fault. I feel like every time I play my skill is decent, but I always lose. For Example, I know and abuse everything I can get out of Sonic, then my sparring partner plays Sonic 3 times and he suddenly kicks my ***. How is he so freaking good already, and how I can pick up things like that? It is not that this was just luck with Sonic either, he does this with a lot of characters and it is infuriating that he is so good at the game, when he acts like he doesn't even care. I feel like I have hit a wall, and I can't climb over it. Any help would be nice.

You could try and have a change of mindset. try different styles of play, do things you normally would not do, all the while watching how your opponent reacts. By changing the way you look at the game, even if at first ou start bad, will posibly help you have a better understanding of your opponent and your own abilities.

 

[Player -0]

Try to play for fun or to learn rather than to win. That's one of the most important mindsets. Can you moonwalk JC grab approach him? Have you tried? What about walk back spindash?

Any videos of you playing would be fine. Even if you can only use an iPhone or something.

 

[Vultron]

You could try and have a change of mindset. try different styles of play, do things you normally would not do, all the while watching how your opponent reacts. By changing the way you look at the game, even if at first ou start bad, will posibly help you have a better understanding of your opponent and your own abilities.

So how do I change the way I look at the game? Do you mean try a different play style?

Try to play for fun or to learn rather than to win. That's one of the most important mindsets. Can you moonwalk JC grab approach him? Have you tried? What about walk back spindash?

Any videos of you playing would be fine. Even if you can only use an iPhone or something.

Thanks! Looking back I have definitely been talking this game too seriously the past few days. The only video I have is of me in a doubles match, I have an elgato at my house, but sadly I am visiting my parents for the month. I usually approach with Nairs and and JC grabs. My moonwalking is existent, but not quite there yet to use it in matches.

 

[Solharath]

I have to go to work in a couple minutes, but what Player-0 said is actually completely and utterly wrong. If you want to win, then playing to win is the mindset you need. Being able to switch between mindsets is equally important, but if you're looking to become unfrustrated with this, then you need to push every advantage you can find. Playing to learn is important, but that's actually much closer to playing to win than for fun. Fun is generally most important when you're playing just to have fun. If you have a competitive mindset, though, you should be having fun just by playing to learn.

Try playing tournament sets with your friend, down to stage-striking and counterpicks. It allows you to consider the game previous while continually thinking of the next game while in the menus. All the flashy tech stuff is great to do in friendlies so you can get the movements down in your muscle memory, but you need to apply them until you get them right in serious matches.

 

[Ariyo]

Can someone breakdown how exactly does Sonic fight Falco or Peach? I at a loss as to what I should be doing to falco, besides gimping him. And Peach seems tough to kill

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Can someone breakdown how exactly does Sonic fight Falco or Peach? I at a loss as to what I should be doing to falco, besides gimping him. And Peach seems tough to kill

For Falco you gotta wait on a platform and approach when there is a opening and gimp him when you have a chance. For Peach IDK

 

[Ariyo]

For Falco you gotta wait on a platform and approach when there is a opening and gimp him when you have a chance. For Peach IDK

That sounds pretty limited. The matchup can't possibly be that bad

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

That sounds pretty limited. The matchup can't possibly be that bad

Its not that bad if you play it right

 

[Ariyo]

Its not that bad if you play it right

Video footage?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Video footage?

Sadly no

 

[Player -0]

I have to go to work in a couple minutes, but what Player-0 said is actually completely and utterly wrong. If you want to win, then playing to win is the mindset you need. Being able to switch between mindsets is equally important, but if you're looking to become unfrustrated with this, then you need to push every advantage you can find. Playing to learn is important, but that's actually much closer to playing to win than for fun. Fun is generally most important when you're playing just to have fun. If you have a competitive mindset, though, you should be having fun just by playing to learn.

Try playing tournament sets with your friend, down to stage-striking and counterpicks. It allows you to consider the game previous while continually thinking of the next game while in the menus. All the flashy tech stuff is great to do in friendlies so you can get the movements down in your muscle memory, but you need to apply them until you get them right in serious matches.

Playing to win is good but to the point of getting upset at someone or at yourself is not beneficial at all. Taking a break or taking the game more lightly can help you calm down and not get worked up.

If you get caught up with only winning then it's likely you'll get frustrated after a while and may end up giving up on the game as a whole. You said:

you should be having fun just by playing to learn.

If people are getting upset then they're not having fun through riling yourself up to win all the time. Your purpose of playing should be winning and/or having fun, with priority of the two depending on the person. I agree with what you're saying but as I'm saying, getting riled on winning then getting frustrated is not conducive.

 

[Mr. Cuddles]

has anyone else been using forward-b a lot more when playing sonic? i know i have. its like sonic's dash attack in smash 4! its a great mix up with the kick at the end and you can jump out of it! i dont know about character match ups with sonic but i have noticed sonic playing much differently on different stages. the longer the stage: the better he plays because he can run around more.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Sonic's neutral and most of his combo game feels incredibly intuitive to me, but I have no idea what any of his special moves are actually useful for? I'm sort of at a loss as to what makes sideb and downb useful, and almost all of the time would just rather dash dance/crouch run to open up tilt options instead.

nB seems cool to hit people who are otherwise just at awkward angles in the air, but even then it feels really weird to use.

 

[Mr. Cuddles]

Sonic's neutral and most of his combo game feels incredibly intuitive to me, but I have no idea what any of his special moves are actually useful for? I'm sort of at a loss as to what makes sideb and downb useful, and almost all of the time would just rather dash dance/crouch run to open up tilt options instead.

nB seems cool to hit people who are otherwise just at awkward angles in the air, but even then it feels really weird to use.

Well Neutral b is great for mix ups and following opponents into the air, and can lead to a kill with up air, forward b is great for draging opponents off the stage and dealing damage, up b can be used obviously to recover, but also you can use it after you hit up air to follow them with another up air, and down b is good for attacking and moving quickly but also to recover if you jump after using it in midair.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Anyone got other methods to practice Blast Attack follow-ups?
I've been doing 1/2 speed just to work on my reflexes, when after a regular HA hit elevates both players at the same plane > you follow up with an insta Blast Attack

Also, since I'm here, could anyone explain to me how to use the PM Spinshot? I'm pretty stumped, the input is Down B + A + Jump right?

 

[GabPR]

Anyone got other methods to practice Blast Attack follow-ups?
I've been doing 1/2 speed just to work on my reflexes, when after a regular HA hit elevates both players at the same plane > you follow up with an insta Blast Attack

Also, since I'm here, could anyone explain to me how to use the PM Spinshot? I'm pretty stumped, the input is Down B + A + Jump right?

here is my spinshot guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxXxrdvbMg&list=UUkwrdW6HuuR2TSgJm0QfP1w
input is the same as 3.0, turn on notifications for 3.5 changes.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Well Neutral b is great for mix ups and following opponents into the air, and can lead to a kill with up air, forward b is great for draging opponents off the stage and dealing damage, up b can be used obviously to recover, but also you can use it after you hit up air to follow them with another up air, and down b is good for attacking and moving quickly but also to recover if you jump after using it in midair.

I'm still not getting the practical difference between side b and down b. They both spin, they both move quickly at your opponent, they're both B-reversible, they both cause damage on hit and knock the opponent away, you can jump out of both. How do I choose when to use one or the other?

@ GabPR cool video, shame it's not nearly as applicable now

 

[Kei_Takaro]

here is my spinshot guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxXxrdvbMg&list=UUkwrdW6HuuR2TSgJm0QfP1w
input is the same as 3.0, turn on notifications for 3.5 changes.

Thanks, I think I'm somewhat realizing that I've been able to do it but the 3.5 changes make it feel like I'm not doing it at all (more like a slightly more horizontal covered 2nd jump)

I'm still not getting the practical difference between side b and down b. They both spin, they both move quickly at your opponent, they're both B-reversible, they both cause damage on hit and knock the opponent away, you can jump out of both. How do I choose when to use one or the other?

Combat:
Down B works great center stage for me, my focus is to let them take the first hitbox and then immediately cancel into Shield Stop and follow up with Tilts/Smash/Grab depending on percentage.
I use Side B more when near the edge of the stages as well as platforms, it has a more multi-hit property that can drag most opponents off the stage and usually spacies; also, sometimes the momentum carried over might not be enough or maybe you want to add in some knockback, you could follow-up with the baseball slide.

Mobility:
I rarely use Down B to mobilize around the stage that much, but in some cases, while in midair or after a 1st jump it could be useful for immediately treading the ground once the ball lands.
Side B imo, is great for aerial horizontal control, especially running off the ledge/platform and using it to confuse enemies, also the momentum can somewhat be controlled while midair by pushing the stick forward/backward.

Recovery:
Down B can lead up to a second jump or can be used in the spinshot to get to the ledge quicker.
Side B is a bit more floatier the more you hold it, and can easily help in horizontal distance. The only drawback is the velocity, in which the opponent has ample time to come up with a new edgeguard tactic.

 

[mimgrim]

I'm still not getting the practical difference between side b and down b. They both spin, they both move quickly at your opponent, they're both B-reversible, they both cause damage on hit and knock the opponent away, you can jump out of both. How do I choose when to use one or the other?

From my general understanding Side Special is more of a mix-up tool as you can chose to use it's attack, WD out of it, JC grab out of it, just plain jump. I wouldn't use it that much though as
DDing is generally better and safer. You should be DDing a lot with Sonic.

Down Special is more to help with recovery and start/extend combos at mid, or higher, percents.

 

[FeintStep]

What on earth do you do against roy, i literally just cant figure out the matchup lol. He stuffs close to 75% of approaches with ftilt alone and if you come in from the air utilt easily beats out nair and fair just gets shielded, he seems to be able to approach from half the stage length so dash dancing becomes nearely uselss if he forces you to one side since i couldnt find anything to contest fair with other then CC jab1>Grab and that was close to the only thing i could land other then a stray fair or bair wall when i had him against the edge

 

[Vultron]

What on earth do you do against roy, i literally just cant figure out the matchup lol. He stuffs close to 75% of approaches with ftilt alone and if you come in from the air utilt easily beats out nair and fair just gets shielded, he seems to be able to approach from half the stage length so dash dancing becomes nearely uselss if he forces you to one side since i couldnt find anything to contest fair with other then CC jab1>Grab and that was close to the only thing i could land other then a stray fair or bair wall when i had him against the edge

Roy and Marth are really really slow games. You have to wait for them to over commit to a move before you can do anything. There insane reach puts a damper on your grab game and basically any other approach.

 

[Solharath]

Threaten them, see if you can't bair out that ftilt or whathaveyou- then shield it. You should be able to get in after a good block- they don't like. People in their face, so they'll either try to get some space back or grab you. It's a game of Rock Paper Scissors, and they have an easier time in the neutral, but if you get them in the air you can actually turn it all around.

I'm still figuring it out myself. There is something here, but really just don't let them push you back to the ledge- you're going to have to use your shield, sidestep, or platforms to do this.

 

[FeintStep]

Threaten them, see if you can't bair out that ftilt or whathaveyou- then shield it. You should be able to get in after a good block- they don't like. People in their face, so they'll either try to get some space back or grab you. It's a game of Rock Paper Scissors, and they have an easier time in the neutral, but if you get them in the air you can actually turn it all around.

I'm still figuring it out myself. There is something here, but really just don't let them push you back to the ledge- you're going to have to use your shield, sidestep, or platforms to do this.

I actually just worked out how to pivot boost grab so i can more easily punish whiffed ftilts with a grab, i think itll help out in the matchup alot since its hard to contest CC so we gotta use mostly grabs

 

[Kei_Takaro]

What on earth do you do against roy,

I go full-agro offstage when I get the chance. You'd usually want them to expend their 1st Side-B first, so I wait it out/ space more carefully.
And ofc, avoid getting within their Up B trajectory (particularly the Up B toward the stage)

 

[DireDrop]

I'm just gonna complain for a second here, and say that I really wish Sonic had Marths down tilt.

 

[GabPR]

What if I told you guys... Dair was buffed? O.o

 

[DireDrop]

Where's the buff?

-Down Aerial
--Fallspeed reduced 10%.
--Hitbox becomes negatively disjointed after 6 frames.
--Autocancel window: 31 -> 35 (same as IASA)
--Landing lag: 26 -> 28.


Also, what does "negatively disjointed" mean?

 

[GabPR]

Where's the buff?

-Down Aerial
--Fallspeed reduced 10%.
--Hitbox becomes negatively disjointed after 6 frames.
--Autocancel window: 31 -> 35 (same as IASA)
--Landing lag: 26 -> 28.


Also, what does "negatively disjointed" mean?

it means they become more inward towards sonic's hurt boxes, that part was a nerf, but the buff came in fallspeed reduced 10%

 

[DireDrop]

How is that a buff? (honest question)