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Sonic & Ganon, the tag-team partnership discussion.

Kinzer

Mammy
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Hey guys, my name's Kinzer (the Hedgehog), and I'm here to let all you Dorf peeps out there that I have selected Ganondorf for the tag-team discussion First! How cool is that?!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205101

Feel free to visit my thread and tell us what you think about this. We won't be able to do this right without your assistance.

see ya there!
 

Kinzer

Mammy
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I got to double post, but I need to let you all know that I'm going to be moving on to another character sometime tomorrow to keep progeession going. Please visit the link in the first post, I can still use any information added inbetween the time interval to add more.
 

Kinzer

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Triple post LOLOL!

Alright but seriously, I'm here one last time to let all of you know that I have gone and done the write-up ahead of time. If you feel that anything must be added or taken out, or anything corrected, pelase let me know. Thank you for your patience.
 

A2ZOMG

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WHAAAAT, it's already done?

Personally me, I think Sonic hinders Ganon's potential as a team partner to some extent. Sonic himself I don't see as being particularly good for teams. See, the problem is the one thing he excels at is punishing lag, which isn't so much the focus in teams as being able to safely rack on damage and score KOs quickly. Ganon is a character who usually specializes in scoring KOs quickly in teams, but he needs a partner that can help him in terms of dealing damage.

Neither character is good at dealing with camping either, which kinda sucks.

All in all, I think Sonic makes a good stock tank for Ganon however. Never underestimate the power of a well-timed Ganoncide.
 

Tenki

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WHAAAAT, it's already done?

Personally me, I think Sonic hinders Ganon's potential as a team partner to some extent. Sonic himself I don't see as being particularly good for teams. See, the problem is the one thing he excels at is punishing lag, which isn't so much the focus in teams as being able to safely rack on damage and score KOs quickly. Ganon is a character who usually specializes in scoring KOs quickly in teams, but he needs a partner that can help him in terms of dealing damage.

Neither character is good at dealing with camping either, which kinda sucks.

All in all, I think Sonic makes a good stock tank for Ganon however. Never underestimate the power of a well-timed Ganoncide.
lol stock tank!

I totally am the stock tank when I play friendly doubles loll

If anything, Sonic excels at support. If you're being attacked, he can be right there to disrupt your opponent or followup your far-launching moves/off-stage opponents.

On-stage KO's I'd totally count on Ganon lol.

also, what kind of camping are you talking about?
 

Swoops

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Ganondorf excels at just about everything in teams. Seriously, quick KOs, insane damage racking with stomp, edgeguarding, clearing out, set ups and follow ups...the only thing I would say is that he can get caught in clusterf*cks every so often, and the horrible recovery doesnt help.
 

PK-ow!

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I didn't think I woul say anything, but I really want to throw this idea out there:

I think this team, if it did happen, would want to ignore one of the common principles of 2v2: Disregard the risk of hurting each other.

Hear me out. When I look at the character's mechanics, I see a striker and a defender (RPG terms). Sonic can theoretically be completely avoidant, except for stalling rules. In general, his speed (and other factors) make him as you say good at punishing, which is a pretty good equivalent for the striker role - hitting lone targets in ways that make them cringe and bring the end of the fight nearer.
Ganondorf has abilities that make it difficult to ignore him - being, his fricking powerful attacks. If he's in melee, and times his ****, then the devastation can be unleashed.

The way these two roles ought to be used together is having the defender (tank) stay on top of the foe, merely threatening to act if their attention deviates from you, while the striker weaves through range, hitting targets of opportunity, and also goes into pursuit. As well, a classic combination is for the two roles to 'flank' a target, allowing for combat advantage to both, but the inability of the target to effectively fight other than the tank. In this game, flanking would of course be actual flanking.
EDIT: Using Sonic to disrupt people "cluster****ing" Ganon would fall into this 'flanking' idea.


But smash bros. mechanics would mean Sonic could get hit by Ganon - not least because one of Ganon's hits could send the foe into Sonic for collision damage. I say that the two characters are heavy enough to deal with this, because I think this strategy will work.
If the two characters see "damaging the opponent" as the main goal, Ganon sees the minmalization of times the opponent hits Sonic as good, and Sonic considered his role to be to hit as many opportunities as possible, they will approach a winning position. Sonic should allow himself to go for K.O.s if he sees them but even if he would need to go through Ganon. The two, meanwhile, should train so that Ganon can expect Sonic to avoid being where Ganon throws his limbs, when he has to.

An important thing is that Ganon is the tank because he can physically impede attacks. He can actually get in the way of projectiles, whereas Sonic cannot. Sonic should physically use Ganon as a shield if he wants to.


Questions? Comments? Des insultes?
 

A2ZOMG

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Why do you people help me out only AFTER I get this stuff up?! :urg: :laugh: XD
I wasn't around when you started the discussion. =(

@ Tenki: Both Sonic and Ganon are characters that are hindered significantly by projectile camping. Sonic probably to a lesser degree, but Sonic is still a character that doesn't like being forced to leave the ground.

I mean if you have a projectile, you can stop Sonic from doing unpredictable Dash approaches y'know...

Also both kinda suck at dealing with shieldcamping from what I've seen.
 

Tenki

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lol oh I see.

I guess I've gotten so accustomed to camping their camp, if that makes any sense.

because it's usually spam projectile until opponent gets close > use close range attack [<--- camping for that]
 

Blad01

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Well anyways, projectiles camping is not really a problem in doubles. I know this, because my team is Falco (me) + Wolf, and we can rarely use lasers while being safe.
 

Tenki

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Right, because projectiles are somewhat of a problem with team attack on lol.

And besides, Sonic can make a grounded spring. Like an instant Flight of Ganon, except it restores your double jumps.


:3

Which opens up an idea that I've only rarely tread upon even for Sonics:

Spring-cancelled aerials.

If an opponent is near a grounded spring, and you have a strong attack to hit them with that normally has a ton of landing lag, you can throw the aerial as you jump on the spring, and as you bounce on the spring, you can either:

-attack/react normally (follow the normal spring trajectory)
-stall-then-fall bounce (once or twice) on the spring (via wizkick)
-buffer a double jump, so you just follow a 'normal' jump path.

Too bad Ganondorf doesn't have alot of landing lag on his attacks. Otherwise, this could have been useful.
D-air on grounded opponent near spring > combo into instant wizkick > ??? > wtf
F-air on an opponent near grounded spring > buffered double jump > fastfall

9__9
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Hmmm... like the previous post says, being able to follow up Uairs with Fairs without fear of crippling lag could be very useful. Also, does the spring cancel the landing lag ganon gets from sweetspotting the ledge?
 

Calciphoce

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I don't get the real "catch" of this combination at all. Sure it's fastest character and slowest character, but that seems to be about it.
 

fromundaman

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Another Ganon for maximum flying Warlock punchness!

Actually, I have no idea. As a general rule, I either hit random or play characters I feel like playing in team matches. Any team can be made to work (even if some are better than others... like bowser/ness or G&W/Pikachu).
 
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