Data Sonic and the Book of Matchups

[BlackPhantom]

How to beat ? Or at least bypass his pellets? Even though I practice both characters I don't get a lot experience with the MU on either side, and I usually lose the game even when I do.

Cammy is gonna kill you for commenting in the middle of another character discussion, but just keep in mind that he can't follow up from them, so respect them, but not too much. Approach with shield maybe. Be aware that they outprioritize both of your spins.

 

[Camalange]

Cammy is gonna kill you for commenting in the middle of another character discussion, but just keep in mind that he can't follow up from them, so respect them, but not too much. Approach with shield maybe. Be aware that they outprioritize both of your spins.

Eh, it's alright... Still waiting on Kinzer anyway to wrap up the Rosalina analysis and move on to our next topic, which I believe is Diddy.

You've all been spared.

 

[Myst_R]

Yeah I hope Kinzer find the time to continue the book of match up. It is one of the most interesting threads. (And I'm still waiting on the Captain Falcon talk ;p)

 

[da K.I.D.]

You guys are super not helpful on this rosalina matchup..

 

[Camalange]

You guys are super not helpful on this rosalina matchup..

Do you have anything on Rosie?

Cuz I've got nothin'.

 

[DavemanCozy]

It's time in the Fox boards to discuss this matchup, super Sonic style!
vs

http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...ussion-thread-week-4-sonic-ness-kirby.393061/

 

[VKatana]

Sooo... the tabs for the Luigi and Sheik match ups were empty? Did I click the wrong thing or something .-.

 

[Camalange]

It's time in the Fox boards to discuss this matchup, super Sonic style!
vs

http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...ussion-thread-week-4-sonic-ness-kirby.393061/

I'm not as practiced in the Fox MU, but I may stop by and see if I can help out the best I can.

Sooo... the tabs for the Luigi and Sheik match ups were empty? Did I click the wrong thing or something .-.

where u @Kinzer

You've been MIA for a bit now. Everything cool? Hoping to see some write-ups and moving the discussion ahead to our next match-up.

 

[Lawz.]

Do you have anything on Rosie?

Cuz I've got nothin'.

If you need input from a top Sonic, just let me know buddy. I'm here

 

[Camalange]

If you need input from a top Sonic, just let me know buddy. I'm here

I'll keep that in mind but unfortunately I could really benefit from the help of a top Link... Seems you don't meet that criteria :/

 

[Lawz.]

I'll keep that in mind but unfortunately I could really benefit from the help of a top Link... Seems you don't meet that criteria :/

I don't think those exist any more but if I find one I'll point them in your direction.

Now for Sonic vs. Rosalina:

Sonic is too fast and spindash combos do 25% so just bthrow. Don't be afraid to approach with side b and grounded down b moves. Use your superior frame data to stop Rosa from doing things and then a frame perfect taunt should just about do it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Why is this thread even here.

i might as well just pm manny and espy on fb, that will be infinitely more helpful to me for this matchup than this thread

 

[Camalange]

I don't think those exist any more but if I find one I'll point them in your direction.

Now for Sonic vs. Rosalina:

Sonic is too fast and spindash combos do 25% so just bthrow. Don't be afraid to approach with side b and grounded down b moves. Use your superior frame data to stop Rosa from doing things and then a frame perfect taunt should just about do it.

Superior is a bit of an understatement IMO. Sonic's custom Dsmash is optimal in this match-up too IMHO.

Why is this thread even here.

i might as well just pm manny and espy on fb, that will be infinitely more helpful to me for this matchup than this thread

Kid, what do you contribute?

 

[Lawz.]

Why is this thread even here.

i might as well just pm manny and espy on fb, that will be infinitely more helpful to me for this matchup than this thread

And I assume that you, in good faith, would relay this information to us Sonic mains? Not that I need the help, being a top Sonic of course...

 

[da K.I.D.]

I contribute to matchups that i know. I dont know this matchup at all, and i came here looking for help and answers after i lost a money match to a rosalina player over the weekend.

If i knew something id contribute, but i dont so i cant, and apparently nobody else knows anything either which leaves us at "why is this thread here?" Isnt it your job to delete pointless, useless, needless threads?

I contribute to the custom move thread and now everyone know that flame spindash is amazing.

 

[DavemanCozy]

i came here looking for help and answers after i lost a money match to a rosalina player over the weekend.

This probably isn't my place to do this, but it sounds to me like:

 

[Lawz.]

I'm not sure that a matchup thread in this character board would fall under labels such as "pointless, needless or useless" but that's just me...

 

[Camalange]

I contribute to matchups that i know. I dont know this matchup at all, and i came here looking for help and answers after i lost a money match to a rosalina player over the weekend.

I don't know it either, so that's up to the rest of the community. Hard to call out people for not knowing it when both of us don't either. Espy barely every contributes anything other than "git gud" so it's hard to be critical. I'm not sure what happened to Kinzer, but he was at least moving discussion along.

If i knew something id contribute, but i dont so i cant, and apparently nobody else knows anything either which leaves us at "why is this thread here?" Isnt it your job to delete pointless, useless, needless threads?

I'm not sure that a matchup thread in this character board would fall under labels such as "pointless, needless or useless" but that's just me...

^
It also sounds like you needed this thread. I apologize it hasn't met your standards, but I can only ask you be patient with it. Clearly it's a match-up outside a lot of our grasp, so "please understand".

Also, I can't run every thread. If I was a robot and not human I'd absolutely love to, but I simply can't. I'm here to guide and contribute but I'm also not everyone's mother. I can only do so much personally. I need everyone's help and I try my best to motivate others to contribute what they can. A fair amount of Sonics made reasonable posts, so I also don't appreciate claiming that this is pointless, useless, or needless.

Lawz, I think your contributions have made strides in this thread, however.

This probably isn't my place to do this, but it sounds to me like:

I'll allow it.

 

[Rucent]

If you lost and haven't learn anything from that battle agianst Rosalina, then maybe its a sign for you to pay more attention to why you got hit, how and why you got killed, and why you lost that money match.

Either way, if I had to think of anything else regarding Rosaluma, probably never be inbetween Luma and Her? I don't really have much to say outside of what I already said awhile ago on the matchup..

 

[Camalange]

If you lost and haven't learn anything from that battle agianst Rosalina, then maybe its a sign for you to pay more attention to why you got hit, how and why you got killed, and why you lost that money match.

It wouldn't hurt to share with us what gave you problems and what you struggled with in the match-up, Kid. From there we can have a discussion.

Either way, if I had to think of anything else regarding Rosaluma, probably never be inbetween Luma and Her? I don't really have much to say outside of what I already said awhile ago on the matchup..

Thank you for doing so.

 

[Lawz.]

Also guys don't forget about burning spindash, really good custom move that everyone seems to be sleeping on. Could be some serious unlocked potential here.

It could really work wonders against Rosalina

 

[Camalange]

I heard Sonic can eat Luma in one bite with Burning Spin Dash.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Dont be above her is the only rock solid thing i learned from the match.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'd contribute but I'm honestly just burned out from a lot of stuff most of the time.
If people got at me in PMs I'd probably be more inclined to help.

 

[Camalange]

Dont be above her is the only rock solid thing i learned from the match.

Her Uair and Usmash are certainly terrifying, especially with Luma. Even dash attack serves as an anti-air option.

I'd contribute but I'm honestly just burned out from a lot of stuff most of the time.
If people got at me in PMs I'd probably be more inclined to help.

I understand. I honestly said it in jest and not as a criticism.

I know you've said before that you don't mind Rosie as much so I'd definitely be interested to hear more about that if you have the time to share.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I hate pms tho. Cus then you have to type your whole explanation out to every person who asks individually

 

[kj22]

I hate pms tho. Cus then you have to type your whole explanation out to every person who asks individually

or copy paste...?

could also watch 6wx vs dabuz. think they've at least played twice, literally about an hour worth of footage. not even joking.

i'll even be nice and link them here before you complain about having to type things twice

Apex 2015 - 6WX (Sonic) Vs. PL XFIRE | Dabuz (Rosalina) SSB4 Losers Semis - Smash For Wii U


XSmash 2 Winners Finals - Dabuz (Rosalina) vs 6WX (Sonic)


XSmash 2 Grand Finals - Dabuz (Rosalina) vs 6WX (Sonic)

 

[Auroura]

I generally feel like I have to wait for Rosalina to do something before spin dashing towards her and/or luma because Star Bits stop the move. I also prefer to just get Luma out of the way asap. She's still strong without Luma, but way more tolerable.

 

[jordanm43444]

I feel like the Rosalina MU is relatively even. Maybe in Rosa favour.

1) Rosalina has Luma which can shut down a LOT of our **** if she spaces it well. BUT we do have a good ranged FTilt to get Luma out of our face and it could easily send it offstage to get rid of it.

2) Sonic can catch up to Rosalina easily when she does not have Luma and from my recollection she cant seem to do anything. BUT Luma does come back, in around 12 seconds so e constantly need to be aware of that fact and not get ahead of ourselves.

3) Star bits close to Rosalina can be a HUGE problem for us, but e should be able to FTilt Luma out of the way during the cooldown if it clanks with something.

All in all I dont know much but what I do know is. USE FTILT A LOT.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

from my experience in the rosalina MU it really comes down to how well your spacing when she has luma and when she doesn't have luma. We can get rid of luma insanely fast through a quick ftilt, dsmash, nair or even using our spin attacks. Most Rosalina players fish for grabs so they can setup a throw for uair pressure so making sure to weave out of her grab range is key. We also should be trying to bait her to commit with tilts and dash attack. Her ftilt while it has good range has enough cooldown for us to approach with a dash attack which if luma is present knocks luma away if all the hits connect.

dealing with her in the air it's best to approach from off to her sides this way she has to commit to either a nair, bair or fair all of which have landing lag and in nairs case is easily beaten out by our bair as well as slow enough to react to. Respecting her close range capabilities is key to ensuring that you don't get caught especially when lumas jabs are annoying to deal with. We also have to worry about landing on she usmash which thanks to luma has a lot more range than what we have to try to intercept her as we're landing. In most cases if she gets us into the air your sole goal should be to try and land as quickly as possible.

In a situation where luma isn't around is when i'd say our rush down works very well. Rosalina's aren't going to want to engage vs us if luma isn't their to eat hitboxes and wither their damage down as well as not being able to slow down out spin attacks. In most cases if they do choose to approach they usually either grab, dash attack or try to run and do pivot Ftilts until luma respawns.

I haven't played many rosalina's but this is just what i've learned through both observing other sonic's play rosalina as well as what ever little experience i've had in playing them.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I think Rosa was chosen because "oh sweet I got nothing but I can learn from other people"
Turns out nobody got nothing.

 

[Camalange]

6wx vs. Dabuz was rough.

 

[kj22]

6wx vs. Dabuz was rough.

Felt like 6wx vs Nietono was rougher. Imagine if he actually knew the my...(still adapted really well, just got too aggressive game 5

 

[Smog Frog]

i've heard dabuz saying its slightly in sanic teh bushpigs favor so....

 

[ROOOOY!]

i've heard dabuz saying its slightly in sanic teh bushpigs favor so....

Sonic an advantage? In smash? Lol no. Every match up is 50:50, don't get juggled, do some juggling yourself. I just saved everyone 2 years of work, you all owe me a cookie.

But seriously, we should do a host of characters, well like 2-3 at once like other boards are doing. The ones we've done seem like preliminary thoughts anyway, and conversation would be more flowing than...this.

 

[Camalange]

For now at least, I'm going to take the initiative and "officially" move forward with the debate for Diddy Kong, as that was the last vote. Hopefully Kinzer resurrects from the dead soon.

Discuss.

I will share my thoughts later.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

the MUs in our favor but only slightly and thats due to the fact our off stage game vs diddy is far more devastating on him than diddy's is against us. He wins the neutral game but most of the MU should'nt be spent in neutral vs diddy. Sonic should be playing heavy hit and run to bait out banana toss and punish diddy's follow through attempts. You basically want diddy to be throwing out hitboxes for you to get an easy read on. Not to mention we're more dangerous at when pushed to the ledge than diddy as most cases if they Fsmash (which is 95% of diddy players options at the ledge with a banana) we can easily dash grab for a free bthrow punish/ KO.

i'll probably go into more detail on more things later once i have more time. But if we get diddy off stage or punish him in the air that should either be diddy's stock or heavy amounts of % dealt to him.

 

[BlackPhantom]

Three words: Don't hold shield.

You're welcome

 

[Sonic Orochi]

• Don't get grabbed;
• Our banana game is pretty dope. Train some jump cancelled item throws and go for broke;
• Spin Rolls will cancel on ground bananas, so be careful;
• Don't get grabbed;
• If he recovers low: Spring (good Diddy mains will curve the up B away from the ledge and only aim at it at the very end, so be prepared, just in case);
• If he recovers high: Bair;
• DI the dthrow UPWARDS and away when at higher percentages;
• Don't get grabbed;
• Avoid: BF, T&C, Halberd, KJ64;
• Okay, I guess: Delfino, Smashville;
• Preferably go to: FD, Lylat.

 

[Jords2Good]

Based on my experience I kinda wait until diddy throws out a move before I would approach. I say be careful when approaching with either done b or side b because his fair can beat them, same with other moves too but mainly I see them use fair to beat it.

Obviously, don't get grabbed. Watch when he throws out his bananas, if your quick then you can snatch it quick before he trues to grab it.

Sonic can really slide with the jump cancel slide toss shenanigans. I managed to slide up to him throwing the banana and forward smashing him as he opens his shield one time. You can even grab them instead. I say grabbing would the safe option.

One of my bad habits with sonic is when I spring up to get out of a situation, I would then quickly dair back to the stage and that is pretty punishable and with his nasty up air, I say avoid doing that a lot or else he Will catchy you.

His side b is hard to deal with. If I remember correctly that sonics up smash can beat his side b. I'm probably wrong but it has worked through. Maybe if you catch him using that move try up smashing him. Obviously don't do it a lot cause you already know what kind of trickstricks diddy has with that move.

I believe I gave out as much as I could. I don't really face diddy that much.

I also hope my advice was at least some helpful to some people. I'm not use to giving out advice when it comes to smash.