Data Sonic and the Book of Matchups

[Sytal]

Its been awhile since I've had good practice, but I want to get this board rolling with info. So here's a few notes to kick things off.

vs [50:50]
Cloud excels in the air in the same way we excel on the ground. Simply put, DO NOT take him on in the air if you can help it. If you keep the match grounded, the MU can stay pretty even or lean in our favor.

Some big problems of note are:
- Limit: - Cloud will try to build limit both purposely and passively. Be aware of how much he has at all times; Limit is very powerful for Cloud as it gives him better aerial movement and strong attacking and recovering options.
- Aerials: We have nothing that can consistently trade with Cloud's aerials. As such, following him into the air is unwise unless you have an assured combo or a hard read.
- Frame Data: Many of Cloud's moves have deceptively little lag. Aerials are a given, but be aware of the frame data on moves like his D-Smash. Timing is essential with punishing Cloud; Cloud can easily turn around and punish us for a failed attempt at punishing him.

 

[Prometheus16]

Hey everyone, let's see who the real master of speed is!
We're discussing the Sonic match-up over on the Falcon MU boards and we'd love your input!

https://smashboards.com/threads/come-ahwn-captain-falcon-mu-thread-lap-10-ness.399692/page-8

 

[jaimex2]

My notes on Cloud -

Cloud's play a similar bait and punish game Sonic does, dont fall for it and overextend. Specially with the limit charges, you are never going to interrupt them.

When in the air expect dair landings, these are ideal opportunities to run under and bair

Getting grabbed is ok, non of his throws lead to a kill setup so shielding is sometimes the better option.

If you end up in a scenario where you are going to get chain up aired dont try and land, get off the stage and recover back onto the ledge with spring. Sonic's air momentum is terrible compared to Cloud's.

Footstools are a great way to ruin his recovery.

 

[lolito52]

if I could describe sonic-dedede matchup in just a crappy photoshop (made by me) it would be this (if you don't know what you are doing, otherwise it's rather even)

 

[Camalange]

if I could describe sonic-dedede matchup in just a crappy photoshop (made by me) it would be this (if you don't know what you are doing, otherwise it's rather even)

that explains everything

but seriously what am i looking at

 

[Ninja Kikiro]

Due to clouds moveset, design and frame data. We can cross him over when he's short hopping around to look for openings. We can also catch his landing fairly easily with pivot grabs and airiels if he tries landing with Dair. A grounded cloud tends to be much easier to bait or just easy in general thanks to his laggy ground moves on cool down. His grab sucks after around 40 or more, so you can shield a little bit more(don't become predictable about it dou). Spin dash can help catch landings as well, but beware of his landing options such as bair since it out range you. Using spring helps gimping him, but it can be a little tricky to hit since his climb hazard Beats it. Recommend also going for fair since it has enough knock back to take him out, same as bair. Landing for us can be tricky thanks to clouds up air, we must mix up our landings as much as we can. We can go for the ledge or not, going for Dair cancel or not, going for air dodge or not, it depends. We must stay grounded since clouds airiels are overwhelming and hard to deal with. That's all I have to say.

 

[Z1GMA]

How the hell do you deal with Quick Attack Abuse?

 

[Heracr055]

Hello Sonic boards!
I decided to drop Ryu as my main and main Peach (possibly Mewtwo if I click with him). From the info I gathered, Sonic is a bad MU for both these characters. Since the MU spread on the OP isn't fully updated and doesn't show any losing MU's, can you guys please let me know what chars are rough for Sonic? Just for potential future CP purposes. Thanks!

 

[Sytal]

Since the MU spread on the OP isn't fully updated and doesn't show any losing MU's, can you guys please let me know what chars are rough for Sonic? Just for potential future CP purposes. Thanks!

Most if not all of Sonic's difficult MU's have been covered here. The front page of this thread has most of the info that has been shared here, but there should be links on that page that will direct you to the posts where more in-depth info for a MU was discussed.

Off the top of my head, the Rosaluma, Yoshi, and maybe Megaman MUs can give us trouble. I think that those are the most notable MUs that make life difficult for Sonic mains. Otherwise, Sonic matches evenly with or straight up outspeeds the rest of the cast.

 

[Camalange]

Fox.

 

[Sensane]

Fox, Cloud, Rosa.

Yoshi succs and Megaman is even.

 

[Ninja Kikiro]

How the hell do you deal with Quick Attack Abuse?

Be calm and don't let it overwhelm you. Shield it and follow the pattern. Don't think about the move much, just think about when the opponent does it and what does he do after. Does he do it offstage? Does he do it when you are charging spin dash? Does he do it when you are running in or away from him? What does he do after quick attack? Attack or grab?. Also the space between you two is also crucial for dealing with quick attack since it can give you and idea of what kind of angle he will throw out quick attack. To give you an idea a quick attack from far away is much easier to punish since is linear. While a short range quick attack can be more unpredictable because of the angles and creativity. Stage also differs, stages with platform will benefit pikachu a lot since it can ledge cancel on platforms. If you want a counter pick stage go to final destination or omegas since that may help. If you want me to explain it a little bit more simpler just ask.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

So, I've been getting mixed signals about sonic bad matchups, but for the most part, I've been getting fox/Falco, Rosaluma, and quite a bit of meta knight, despite others saying it's even. some people say cloud is even, some say its losing, same for Bayo, diddy, etc. I'm just trying to see if I need to pick up any secondaries for bad sonic mu's. Although, for the most part, Sonic works like a discount sheik, few bad matchups, lots of even ones.