Data Sonic and the Book of Matchups

[Sonicrida]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post about Rosalina still but I played this match against dabuz over wifi and I feel like I did "okay". Definitely my best match against him despite the SD and a ton mistakes that I do. I'm still young to competitive but maybe someone could dissect what I did to see was working and what wasn't. Hopefully there's something useful in here.

http://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18/b/646221700 at 1:23:29

EDIT: The time is 1:29:23 Sorry!

 

[TwicH]

We are all gonna get this MU with Diddy figured out and then suddenly...

"Oh hey the patch came out and Diddy got a hard nerf! Never mind everyone! Sonic now destroys Diddy!"

If Diddy even gets nerfed that is.

 

[Kunoku]

What annoys me about Diddy is that simply having the Banana at hand is pressure. As soon as he throws it and misses me I short hop, air dodge and have it on me and now I have the upper hand.

Apart from that I just try to read their spot dodges, air dodges and rolls and punish accordingly once I have gotten it. Once I'm in their head that's game. . .usually.

I don't usually face Diddy's surprisingly.

 

[SmashGamer112]

I don't know why but It seems like Banana's aren't really that useful against sonic, he's hard to catch with them. The only thing Sonic mains need to watch out for are his grab combos.

The spring is great against Diddy because his Rocket easily can be knocked off.

After the nerf, honestly Diddy isn't all that scary, you just have to play sensibly and not get grabbed, and even if you do, there's a lower chance of getting KO'd now because of the KB nerf on the Uair which can be DI'd too.

From my experience in Smash 4, Yoshi and Sheik are the only "Top Tier" characters I have trouble against in a 1v1 situation.

 

[Rucent]

I think bananas could be useful if you happen to grab them. They could be used instead of the spring when knocking the barrel rocket from Diddy. Not to mention, he wouldn't be able to pull out another one until the current one is gone.

As a side note.. Does anyone know what happened to Kinzer?

 

[SmashGamer112]

I think bananas could be useful if you happen to grab them. They could be used instead of the spring when knocking the barrel rocket from Diddy. Not to mention, he wouldn't be able to pull out another one until the current one is gone.

As a side note.. Does anyone know what happened to Kinzer?

Actually haven't tried that yet with Banana, nice one.

Also I think Kinzer got sick and then disappeared... I'm not sure what happened really.

 

[Rucent]

If you grab Diddy while he is in the Banana tossing animation, before he tosses it, it ends up disappearing. Like you can see him taking out the banana, but it will disappear if you grab him before he actually tosses it.

Also, down throw could be a lot more helpful in this matchup because if you use it on Diddy near the ledge, it will send him downward off the stage, causing him to either moneky flip or up b, which as others mentioned, you could use spring to gimp with.

 

[SmashGamer112]

If you grab Diddy while he is in the Banana tossing animation, before he tosses it, it ends up disappearing. Like you can see him taking out the banana, but it will disappear if you grab him before he actually tosses it.

Also, down throw could be a lot more helpful in this matchup because if you use it on Diddy near the ledge, it will send him downward off the stage, causing him to either moneky flip or up b, which as others mentioned, you could use spring to gimp with.

^This

A part of dash attack's hitbox actually makes you go in a diagonal downwards direction, so if you catch him with that near the edge you could also go ahead and gimp him.

 

[Camalange]

Also I think Kinzer got sick and then disappeared... I'm not sure what happened really.

I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this situation... It's been a long time and he just fell off the map without a word.

I hope he's alright, but in the meantime, I guess I might have to take initiative with this thread too... Sigh.

Also, I think Sonic is either even or has slight advantage over Diddy now.

 

[Rucent]

I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this situation... It's been a long time and he just fell off the map without a word.

I hope he's alright, but in the meantime, I guess I might have to take initiative with this thread too... Sigh.

Also, I think Sonic is either even or has slight advantage over Diddy now.

Well, if you check Kinzer's profile page, the last known time of activity is Saturday at 6:51 AM. He could just be very busy with education/work/personal life. We'll probably get something from him later. In the meantime, all we could do is wish the best of luck in whatever he's doing.

Back to Hoo Hah, I do think that the matchup is more on Sonic's favor. And it's a lot more easier and less nerve-racking now due to Diddy's nerfs.

 

[SmashGamer112]

Back to Hoo Hah, I do think that the matchup is more on Sonic's favor. And it's a lot more easier and less nerve-racking now due to Diddy's nerfs.

Also, I think Sonic is either even or has slight advantage over Diddy now.

Yeah I haven't had trouble with this matchup at all, I think sonic's gimps and speed helps him the most and the fact that you can pick up banana's doesn't make it harder.

I haven't really ran into any diddy's lately but if I do I'll be prepared.

About @Kinzer though, he's probably like Rucent said having some stuff to do with his own life, I'm sure Kinzer will be back soon though.

 

[Camalange]

Well, if you check Kinzer's profile page, the last known time of activity is Saturday at 6:51 AM. He could just be very busy with education/work/personal life. We'll probably get something from him later. In the meantime, all we could do is wish the best of luck in whatever he's doing.

Ah, really? Last I checked it had been near a month, so maybe he's slowly making a return.

About @Kinzer though, he's probably like Rucent said having some stuff to do with his own life, I'm sure Kinzer will be back soon though.

Yes, I hope all is well.

Back to Hoo Hah, I do think that the matchup is more on Sonic's favor. And it's a lot more easier and less nerve-racking now due to Diddy's nerfs.

Yeah I haven't had trouble with this matchup at all, I think sonic's gimps and speed helps him the most and the fact that you can pick up banana's doesn't make it harder.

I haven't really ran into any diddy's lately but if I do I'll be prepared.

My most recent experiences have made me feel this way as well. Sonic's banana game has always been good too, btw. We just have a lot of tools that help us keep up and without the fear of Hoo-Hah KOs we can put in a lot more work.

Still can't sleep on him though. They just have to work a little harder.

 

[SmashGamer112]

Ah, really? Last I checked it had been near a month, so maybe he's slowly making a return.

Yes, I hope all is well.


My most recent experiences have made me feel this way as well. Sonic's banana game has always been good too, btw. We just have a lot of tools that help us keep up and without the fear of Hoo-Hah KOs we can put in a lot more work.

Still can't sleep on him though. They just have to work a little harder.

Yup can't sleep on Diddy, even with the nerfed Hoo-Hah, Diddy still has a lot of options.

Think we should move on to the next character I think we have the Diddy matchup pretty much done. Just waiting for Kinzer to make his comeback lol.

 

[Rucent]

But what should the next character be? We could also review some of the previous matchups we talked about alittle bit because of the patch. (Although I don't really think we have to do this)

 

[Camalange]

But what should the next character be? We could also review some of the previous matchups we talked about alittle bit because of the patch. (Although I don't really think we have to do this)

If anything, there are only minor things to note about differences in the Sheik and Rosaluma match-up. Sonic match-up is basically the same besides less Sonics killing each-other early with B-Throw.

We won't die to Sheik's Bair offstage, but it will help her combo even more.

We don't lock onto Luma now with HA, which makes certain situations more manageable such as landing or passing over Luma to get to Rosa.

Normally, Kinzer does a vote thread. I could probably just take his format and make a new one.

 

[Jiggly]

We are discussing the Sonic MU at the puff boards, we'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it! ^_^
http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...-discussing-sanic.384478/page-9#post-19113274

 

[Disgaea D2]

Anyone have the Sonic vs G&W MU. I think wins the MU do you know why?

 

[Camalange]

We are discussing the Sonic MU at the puff boards, we'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it! ^_^
http://smashboards.com/threads/poke...-discussing-sanic.384478/page-9#post-19113274

Thanks for sharing! I stopped by. I might be able to add more later.

Anyone have the Sonic vs G&W MU. I think wins the MU do you know why?

We haven't covered it yet.

GaW isn't the same threat as he was to Sonic in Brawl (hated that match-up) but I think some of the same things apply.

His Usmash is stupid good for punishing Sonic.

 

[SmashGamer112]

Anyone have the Sonic vs G&W MU. I think wins the MU do you know why?

G&W is really annoying to deal with. Not as bad as brawl (As Camalange said) but pretty annoying.

His smash attacks work quite well to stop sonic. I well timed fsmash beats side B and Upsmash can punish that UpB>Dair option you have of getting back to the floor.

Luckily he can't bucket anything from sonic, "possibly" the spring but it turns into G&W's own move not back into spring so you don't have to be worried about getting gimped by your own medicine.

I think throws are your best bet against him, HA is beat by upsmash so don't try and use that, but you could always use spindash into burst homing attack, there are a few frames where it's a true combo.

 

[Camalange]

GaW can't bucket Spring...

Also, his Fsmash is so bad now in comparison to Brawl. It's exciting, really.

 

[SmashGamer112]

GaW can't bucket Spring...

Also, his Fsmash is so bad now in comparison to Brawl. It's exciting, really.

Oh yeah forgot about the Fsmash nerf. I said "possibly" bucket spring since I didn't know, I would have to rely on the CPU to test it out since I'm on 3DS >.<

 

[Disgaea D2]

Not to disappoint you I main G&W and I'm trying to learn the MU so I can get better at facing Sonic and here's what I noticed. Fsmash did get nerfed along with his nair and bair. Approaching with well spaced aerials especially bair is risky because of Sonic 's dash grab. Dair is good for hard reading but can be read easily due to the enormous end lag it has .G&W has a wait and punish oriented playstyle.

 

[Disgaea D2]

In other words, when G&W approaches you with aerials shield the attack then punish.

Not to disappoint you I main G&W and I'm trying to learn the MU so I can get better at facing Sonic and here's what I noticed. Fsmash did get nerfed along with his nair and bair. Approaching with well spaced aerials especially bair is risky because of Sonic 's dash grab. Dair is good for hard read due to the end lag.G&W has a patient oriented playstyle.

 

[Trifroze]

COME AHWN http://smashboards.com/threads/come-ahwn-captain-falcon-mu-thread-lap-4-sonic.399692/

Falcon MU thread is discussing Sonic, drop by and give your thoughts on the matchup / what problems Sonic has with Falcon / what's easy for Sonic vs Falcon.

 

[Camalange]

COME AHWN http://smashboards.com/threads/come-ahwn-captain-falcon-mu-thread-lap-4-sonic.399692/

Falcon MU thread is discussing Sonic, drop by and give your thoughts on the matchup / what problems Sonic has with Falcon / what's easy for Sonic vs Falcon.

Should be interesting. I have some things to say.

 

[Ffamran]

62 hot dogs, please.

Hello, chili dog lovers, the Falco boards started their ongoing Sonic discussion and we'd love to know more about the Blue Blur. So, drop on by whenever: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-32-sonic-good-ol-blues.402114/.

And if you want to spar against Falco players for fun or for the MU, head over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[DavemanCozy]

We're revisiting the book of Fox after the patch:
vs

Click here to discuss this MU post-patch.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

So many people discussing sonic @____@

 

[Camalange]

I want to help more but this is like, my final week of nonsense at college, lmao.

The timing...

Why is every board choosing us this week? >_>

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Calling all Sonics, Rosalina is now analyzing Sonic the Hedgehog at her match-up analysis thread. Sonic will be analyzed until the end of 5/14, so if you have anything to say for the Rosalina vs. Sonic match-up, now's the time to do so.

Keep note that at Rosalina's sub-forum, the match-up has to be under Rosalina's perspective.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Annnnd another one.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Annnnd another one.

It's probably just coincidental, especially at Rosalina's end, since she hasn't analyzed Sonic yet.

 

[Kupo Rose]

S'all good, it was in jest.

 

[Camalange]

RIP

;_;

 

[SalsaSavant]

Hey, Sonics.
We at the Dededeboards are talking matchups. So come on by, but not too quickly, because fast is scary for Dedede.

Click Dedede to get there!

 

[Camalange]

I'm starting to think we're being trolled.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Way Past Cool! The Kirby boards are currently discussing the Sonic MU. If you have any input then feel free to drop on by for some MU knowledge and advice against the Blue Blur.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-true-arena-kirby-match-up-discussion.400052/page-2

 

[Camalange]

LMAO OKAY GUYS THERE'S NO WAY

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm starting to think we're being trolled.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Rosalina never analyzed Sonic before, but it is kind of odd how Sonic's discussion period at Rosalina's sub-forum collided with the Sonic discussion periods at the other character sub-forums.

 

[Camalange]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Rosalina never analyzed Sonic before, but it is kind of odd how Sonic's discussion period at Rosalina's sub-forum collided with the Sonic discussion periods at the other character sub-forums.

There's been like 6 in the past week, this never happens lmao what an absurd coincidence.

I started helping as they came in but I can't juggle that many.

Plus it's the literal worst timing for me as I graduate tomorrow and this whole past week has made me the most MIA from this site due to prioritizing finishing up college nonsense.