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Data Sonic and the Book of Matchups

Sensane

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I guess you're right Nidtendofreak Nidtendofreak about what you said; Ike is probably the scariest character when he has rage, even more so than Ganon. I remember seeing Ryo decimate Sonic players within like 20 seconds, too. And even ignoring Ryo's sucess (but why would you, though), whenever I get Ike at high percents I feel very unsafe if I have no chance to punish or read. So I guess 45:55 in Ike's favor sounds fair.

As for Pacman, it's a tough one to call. I don't recall this matchup ever being seen before at top levels, so I mostly have to go in theory. On the one hand, Pacman has an amazing camping game that Sonic can have trouble breaking through in all of his approaches. But on the other hand, Pacman would have a hard time killing Sonic because of his laggy smashes and horrendous grab. Althogh Pac has a kill throw, so does Sonic. Sonic is difficult to gimp, but so can Pacman. Ever since I first considered the MU I would never be able to find any cutting edges for either character. So 50:50 is the best spot for right now. Though this may change if the DITCIT's development grows.
 

da K.I.D.

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I also lose to san pretty consistently. the results dont lie. ryo beat 6wx at evo too. joe beat san but still thinks its a disadvantage.

sonic kirby is at least 80-20 sonic.
I play kirby in tournament so i have a better knowledge of him than most sonics, but i maintain that that is one of the worst matchups kirby has. Ive never lost even a tournament game to kirby, and I doubt i will ever.

I fought mikekirby with customs too, which makes him tons better.

I think sonic probably bodies ddd too.
 

Camalange

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I beat Mikekirby recently, but I can't see it being as bad as 80:20... I would need to see more of it in action and with Kirbys that know Sonic equally as well. Only other Kirbys I know are Ken109 and Deven3000, who I haven't played in a few months.

Ike I always felt was at least even, due to my experiences with Waldo and RedX.

:093:
 

BSP

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:4sonic: 60:40 over :4pacman: imo.

The latter can't keep the former off of him reliably. Sonic is extremely fast on the ground and can bypass fire hydrant by simply running through it. The trampoline helps and shuts down spins for the most part, but it doesn't stop Sonic from catching up to Pac-Man and keeping the pressure up.

I said this a few weeks ago:

I still think Sonic beats us 60:40 if he plays the MU properly, IE pays attention to your fruits and completely ignores the hydrant. If he does those things, you're going to have trouble consistently creating space since he's fast and only trampoline disrupts his ground game. That being said, outside of spin dash combos and his Bair, Sonic's damage per hit isn't that great. Pac-Man is good at avoiding spin dash in general + his bair is slightly faster than Sonic's (don't try to go for trades though). Outside of use trampoline a lot and harass him when you can when he comes from the air, I'm not sure what else to say.

I still stand by it. If both sides play the MU properly, it becomes a battle of chip damage that's slightly in Sonic's favor due to speed. If it means anything, Abadango has yet to play :4pacman: against :4sonic: in tournament AFAIK. Could be indicative of what he thinks of the MU.

Experience: I've played with Brawlman1000 tons, so we both know the MU. I played with 6WX and KJ at MLG some.
 

Nidtendofreak

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what is ike's kill throw?
Dthrow

Without rage its starting to kill at like 150-160% range. With rage we're talking more in the 120-130% ballpark, a lot sooner if we land a grab on a platform (which is when most Dthrow kills happen). Ike rarely uses it because for obvious reasons opponents rarely live that long against him, but its a tool we have and I have seen it come into play in the Sonic MU a bit more frequently because we get less random hits and more grabs overall compared to some other MUs.
 

Sensane

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If I'm allowed to, I would like to give my first impression on the potential matchup outcome of :4sonic:vs:4cloud:. I'm going based off of GimR's analysis and a couple of my own observations and possibilities. Just remember, this is pre-release and although this post of mine may come in handy for when Cloud is released, this is only my opinion and could potentially be invalidated in the future.

:4cloud:
Cloud is a sword wielder with a supposedly great anti-air game with n-air, u-air, d-air (to an extent), u-tilt, and u-smash. And due to Cloud's sword range, we might have trouble getting in for the approach. To cover our grounded approaches, Cloud has a projectile that has a seemingly large hitbox and considering how it could knock Bowser relatively far away from the opponent, it could potentially beat spin dash/charge. This means our best approach options would be either a spin shots since we can still air dodge and go a super fast distance or a spin dash jump (into an airdodge if any projectiles come in). Granted we could just jump over them, but I don't think projectiles are even necessary because Cloud has a supposedly long range (maybe even rivaling Shulk). He also seems like a powerhouse. Despite this, he won't be a slowpoke; I know this because while I admit I haven't played FFVII, I've played the Dissidia games enough to know that Cloud has above average mobility, so getting in probably won't get too hard for a Cloud player (in fact he seemed to have high air acceleration and pretty good air speed).

On the other hand, stages with platforms like Battlefield or Dreamland would be better for us since we can platform cancel with our springs and Cloud would have to use his projectiles a lot more carefully and precisely unlike on flatter stages like FD or Smashville. Town and City is also alright for us as long as the platforms are on the stage. Cloud doesn't have that bad of a recovery, since his kanji side b seems to give him horizontal distance (when it hits at least), but he still seems very easy to gimp because of his otherwise poor recovery.

Another edge we have is that Cloud seems like he has a lat of ending lag on some of his aerials (around 16-15 frames average according to GimR). And it doesn't look like he has any aerials that autocancel, so if we can get him in the air, he would seem easy to bait aerials or an air dodge. He also has some endlag in his ground game, too. His jab and dash attack would be easy to shield grab and his f-tilt and smash attacks, while might be reliable kills, have quite a bit of ending lag. The trailer did show his back throw, which might be a surprisingly decent kill throw because of how far Wario seemed to go, but we don't know yet.

As for his limit breaks, they're kinda like the Monado artes in the sense that Cloud gets a temporary buff; but unlike Monado artes, we can't camp him out because they seem to go away only when a special was used. It could be like the KO punch where it can whiff and cancel upon receiving hits, or they could only go away on hit. There's not enough footage in the trailer to demonstrate that yet. All we can do right now is just wait until the December direct to find out what they can really do.

In general I'd say that Cloud is a bit of a struggle for us, but I won't say my MU score since he's not even out yet. He could have aerials that can autocancel in a short hop (Cloud's b-air seems that it might, btw), IASA frames, or maybe down b will stall him in the air (hey, we never know). But until he's released, this is my current stance on the MU.
 

Camalange

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Fair enough, though I just thought that these were some things to consider. BTW, thanks for not sounding like a jerk when replying to me.
I wasn't being a jerk. I was being honest.

Your time, as well as mine, is valuable. It shouldn't be wasted.

It's in no one's interest to compare Sonic, a developed character with an expansive metagame, to a promotional teaser. If I fall into the category of being someone intended for your target audience, I'm informing you that I didn't even make it past the first two sentences.

:093:
 

Sensane

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I knew you were being honest, but you could've said that a little less harsher. I was honestly going through a tough time; my dad has been bothering me about my grades all day yesterday from waking me up before I was ready for school to when he got home from work, then I also have to take like 30 different tests this week excluding finals, my parents grounded me for the weekend just because I messed up on a couple tests (and fyi these are parents who find those types of people completely unreasonable), thus I had to miss out on an Anther's Ladder tournament that I've been hyping up for the entire week, I also have band cocert tonight which includes a piano solo which still needs a little extra polish that for som reason I keep fluking up on occasion, and due to all that, I felt the need to attempt suicide. THREE TIMES. So seeing this after all that just made me take it as an insult. Despite this, you don't have to apologize, because there's nothing wrong with honesty in the slightest. I just thought that my pre analysis was really good and after how rough my day was yesterday, I just took what you said harder than I really had, especially since other people liked that one post. However, saying that my time here was valuable meant a lot to me cause I haven't received a proper "thank you" or "atta boy" in years. I made that analysis because I wanted to try to advance Cloud's metagame a little quicker so that he won't end up like Mewtwo or even other dlc characters. So sorry I called you a jerk, btw. Also, if reading this made you feel uncomfortable, sorry for that, too.
 
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Camalange

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I'm sure there are members who would find this kind of speculation entertaining, but for the sake of this thread, I don't think it's suited as we're trying to be as objective as possible. Perhaps the Cloud boards would enjoy it, since that board will be primarily, if not strictly, speculation at this point. Otherwise, I will just joke and say that Cloud's Limit Break options clank with Spin Dash.

I don't get to know every user here personally, so I'm not trying to discredit as much as I'm just trying to convey a point.

You don't have to apologize for calling me a jerk either.

:093:
 

da K.I.D.

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Blue Banana

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Hi, the Olimar sub-forum is discussing the Sonic MU. Any input is appreciated.
 

Sensane

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da K.I.D. da K.I.D. you should've read the whole thing, but I'd digress.

I appreciate your help and all, but the ironic thing is that that article is the exact thing I'm trying to get into my parents's heads XD.
 

BSP

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@Espy Rose Seagull Joe Seagull Joe

Why do you two think Sonic v Pac-Man is even? Sonic can punish literally anything Pac-Man does, except maybe trampoline -> grab a ledge. Otherwise, Pac-Man can't feasibly keep up with him in neutral since he doesn't have a grab, Sonic can consistently punish trampoline, and Sonic can ignore hydrant completely.

BTW Joe I watched your matches against Zage. You're respecting Pac-Man after his trampoline way too much. Every time he misses, run straight into the trampoline and start a spin dash, spin charge, or a homing attack. 9 times out of 10 you're going to nail Pac-Man for free, and Pac-Man can't really punish the times you miss.
 

Seagull Joe

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@Espy Rose Seagull Joe Seagull Joe

Why do you two think Sonic v Pac-Man is even? Sonic can punish literally anything Pac-Man does, except maybe trampoline -> grab a ledge. Otherwise, Pac-Man can't feasibly keep up with him in neutral since he doesn't have a grab, Sonic can consistently punish trampoline, and Sonic can ignore hydrant completely.

BTW Joe I watched your matches against Zage. You're respecting Pac-Man after his trampoline way too much. Every time he misses, run straight into the trampoline and start a spin dash, spin charge, or a homing attack. 9 times out of 10 you're going to nail Pac-Man for free, and Pac-Man can't really punish the times you miss.
Thanks for the knowledge drop.

:018:
 

Camalange

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How does Sonic ignore Hydrant completely?

Especially with a Trampoline out, it either shuts down or severely limits our approaches.

:093:
 

Sensane

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How does Sonic ignore Hydrant completely?

Especially with a Trampoline out, it either shuts down or severely limits our approaches.

:093:
I think he meant that Sonic ignores the hydrant when we spin dash (in other words, the water won't stop us), rather than ignoring the hydrant completely.
 

Camalange

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That's not true either, though.

Granted it's been a while so I might be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure that still messes with our momentum. I don't see why it woudn't. FLUDD does...

:093:
 

Sensane

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I think FLUDD does because it's not a true projectile while the water from the hydrant is, and the spin dash [hop] invalidates most projectiles.
 

Camalange

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It's only invincible for a couple frames during the hop. I mean the roll itself.

:093:
 

BSP

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Sonic ignores the hydrant by running, not spinning. He can run through grounded fire hydrants as if they weren't there. They effectively provide zero cover for Pac-Man. It does stop spins, but spin charging into it, letting it hit a few times, then hitting it with SDJ will most likely launch it . You're are better off ignoring it completely though. Launching it is super predictable and does nothing but refresh the option for Pac-Man sooner. You also waste time and give him higher fruits .

Trampoline does severely limit Sonics approaches. The problem is Pac-Man setting it up without taking loads of damage in the process. I kid you not when I say Sonic can punish whiffed trampoline from nearly anywhere on a legal stage, and even if he can't get a free hit, he can be right next to Pac-Man meaning the trampoline accomplished nothing. Heck, trampoline is punishable on hit by homing attack at lower %'s.

This leads into why I say Pac man can't keep up in neutral. Trampoline is his primary way to punish people for excessive shielding, but Sonic can punish virtually any miss and even some hits. It's brutal actually trying to hit him once he understands how Pac-Man works.

If Pac-Man gets set up with a lead, then approaching him is a huge pain. Still, Sonic can bully him easily until he gets to that point. It's a clear 60:40 for Sonic imo.

Don't get me started on KO'ing Sonic.
 
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Camalange

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Right... So Sonic still can't totally ignore it since he has to change his play, considering Spins are a huge part of his play...

But I understand your point.

Also, I personally never said either way which direction this match-up goes. I felt Sonic has the edge, but I know really great Pac players in NY so it's never been made to look as bad for him as some will exaggerate.

:093:
 

da K.I.D.

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Bsp sounds like me when i talk about the kirby matchup with sonic.

He knows all the character specific intersectionary stuff that you learn from playing both characters lol

Thats the kind of stuff we should be talking about. Getting information from people that have practiced and learned specific matchups inside and out
 

Camalange

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Here's my set from this weekend vs Sinji, who is considered one of the best Pac-Man mains in the world.


I end up losing the set, but I think that's due to his better adaptation to my style and me flubbing inputs round 3.

I'd like to hear what things I'm doing wrong/right so I can improve for next time, as well as hopefully use this as a way to generate discussion and provide more insight to the match-up.

:093:
 

Sensane

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Oh stawp it, it's like your posts always say at the end: you are amazing just the way you are :).

In all seriousness, though, I'd have to say that it's basically what the commentators said at the beginning: it could probably be because you haven't had enough Pacman experience..? I mean, that can be the best answer to some of my matches with other characters (I got rekt at two different tourneys on Saturday).
 
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Camalange

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Oh stawp it, it's like your posts always say at the end: you are amazing just the way you are :).
Aw shucks.
In all seriousness, though, I'd have to say that it's basically what the commentators said at the beginning: it could probably be because you haven't had enough Pacman experience..? I mean, that can be the best answer to some of my matches with other characters (I got rekt at two different tourneys on Saturday).
I don't mean directly my loss, and a match-up advantage doesn't guarantee a win either... It's meant to showcase how the match-up can go in both instances of a victory or defeat so we can see the tools each character is working with in the match-up.

:093:
 

Sensane

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I know; I've beaten Pikachus with my Pit and Ikes with my Sonic before, I'm just saying that while it can never be a true catalyst, sometimes it can get in the way of a match.
 

BSP

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Here's my set from this weekend vs Sinji, who is considered one of the best Pac-Man mains in the world.


I end up losing the set, but I think that's due to his better adaptation to my style and me flubbing inputs round 3.

I'd like to hear what things I'm doing wrong/right so I can improve for next time, as well as hopefully use this as a way to generate discussion and provide more insight to the match-up.

:093:
You're doing what you need to do. Just do what I said to Seagull regarding trampline, and stop messing with the hydrant. You only hit Sinji with it once @6:51, and that's because he got spooked and jumped when he didn't need to. For trampoline, run into it and start a spin or homing attack and you will nail Pac-Man. Those hits are what pushes the MU in Sonic's favor IMO, because Pac-Man can't directly contest you unless he has some setup going. You can see this in the set. Sinji is constantly running away from you and trying to set something up because Sonic steamrolls Pac-Man otherwise.

Notice how Sinji couldn't directly contest you in neutral. Most of hits came from when you had to approach awkwardly, which Pac-Man can set up, but not safely if you know how to punish him for using trampoline. When you start punishing him for it, that pushes the MU to 60:40 because it's harder for Pac-Man to damage you than vice versa.

@1:40 you were probably thinking you might die here. The answer? Hold shield. Pac-Man is holding the bell, so he can't grab you. If he does hydrant, you roll away for free. If he trampolines you, you take 7% and the situation returns to neutral with your stock intact.

@ around 4:30, you saw the punish Pac-Man will usually get on a shielding HA. 5% from Fair, unless he has a Key. HA is worth the risk unless Pac-Man has key stocked. Later in the set you HA his shield when he has key stocked and you still don't get punished hard because Pac-Man doesn't know which way you're going until it's too late to get a hard punish guaranteed.

Also @ ~5:20, once that bell hit your shield, sit there in shield. Either Pac-Man trampolines you for 7% and the situation returns to neutral, or he risks death/a combo if he goes for the grab. If he grabs you, you take ~10% and possibly an edgeguard, which most Pac-Man players will give up and instead opt to charge fruit. Point is you don't die if you stay in shield.

@5:46 you focused on the hydrant and not on Pac-Man, and you almost died for it. This is why I stress ignoring the hydrant. Had you done so, Pac-Man has to land with basically no good landing options.

Game 2 after you lost your second stock is why I think the MU is only 60:40. Approaching Pac-Man is a huge pain, but you can consistently punish him for setting up.

@7:05 Ok, this is something a lot of people do vs PAc-Man and why he gets away with most of his stuff. Pac-Man was offstage, and instead of focusing on KO'ing him, you jumped behind the hydrant in an attempt to use it against him. You ended up getting pushed away by the water, and Pac-Man recovers for free. You essentially gave up an edgeguard situation to attempt launching the hydant. Focus on Pac-Man, not the hydrant.

@7:30 scared of the melon? Sonic's Ftilt should clank it out easily.

@7:40 good stage spike and not letting Pac-Man recover for free.

@8:28 those are the punishes that Sonic can get that you guys aren't getting.

@8:48 that's how you avoid Pac-Man's KO setups. They all lose to jump back up and wait.

@9:01 What did I say? You focused on the hydrant more than Pac-Man and paid for it with you stock. Ignore it.

Earliest death...120% from bad DI...barring incidents like that, you're hitting full rage with each stock. This is why I said "don't get me started on KO'ing Sonic..." You're always one rage F or U smash away from catching up.

@10:00 free HA. Trust me, you can punish these trampolines.

@10:08 hopefully I've beaten "ignore the hydrant" into you at this point, but this right here is the main reason why. Most of Sonic's relevant moves launch the hydrant exactly like that. Pac-Man will know this and stand right where Sinji did, meaning you're wasting your time trying to launch it at him. Furthermore you'll probably eat an orange or key for your efforts.

@10:17 correct me if I'm wrong, but Sinji hasn't been punishing your spins on shield hard, has he? Due to Sonic's mixup potential with the move, Pac-Man can't get that much off of a spin on shield consistently. This is why I'm telling you guys to run into the trampoline and don't be afraid to start spins. You either hit pac-man for 20%+ and put him in a juggle situation, or he has to guess in order to land any % on you.

@10:50 Instead of running through the hydrant and shield grabbing the extremely limited Pac-Man's landing, you try to launch it against him. Stop.

Up until this point, let me reiterate that Sinji isn't trying to fight you directly. That's because Pac-Man can't keep up with Sonic in neutral unless he has some crap going.

@11:37 Watch Pac-Man. Between the sound cues and him charging, you should know which fruit is coming.

@12:31 raw HA on shield yet Sinji didn't get a full punish because he doesn't know where you're going, even though he had the KEy. Sonic can get away with a lot of stuff.

@13:13 the grab beam goes dead before it even fully extends. That was a free Usmash. I'm noticing at this point you are predicting hydrant drops well, but sometimes Sinji dodges your hit and hits you back. Have you considered staying grounded and shield grabbing / spin dashing his landing?

Other than that, stay in his face and do what I said. You're on the right track, just stop launching the hydrant. All you are doing is leaving yourself open, giving Pac-Man charge time, or refreshing the option for him sooner.

Edit: I'm trying to find decent examples of Brawlman punishing my trampolines, but it's hard because I stopped doing them because I kept getting hit. Still, if you look here: https://youtu.be/14xkTM0b5HI?t=460 ; also see @16:40 ; 17:12 ; if you watch that set, you'll see that I also can't consistently punish brawlman when he spindashes my shield because of his mixup potential.

You can see that on hit, I barely have time to shield before he spindashes me. You can definitely catch pac man on whiff.

Oh, let me comment on the other side so I can justify the 60:40. Pac-Man is extremely annoying to approach once he sets up. Once he does, he can somewhat fight Sonic on even ground. His aerials are pretty decent and combo well until later %. His fruits can lead to ridiculous strings for dumb % amounts. However, Sonic can consistently punish him for setting up, and Sonic clearly has an edge until Pac-Man does so. Other than that, Sonic is a bit more favored when it comes to KO'ing. It's substantially easier for him to get grabs, and he can risk throwing out smashes more than Pac-Man. Outside of silly deaths, Sonic will get full rage on his stocks too, so he's always primed for a comeback. Again, I say 60:40 due to the advantage Sonic inherently has until Pac-Man sets up and his slightly better KO potential/safety.
 
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Rucent

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Let's head on over to :4sonic: vs :4falco:and :4sonic: vs:4robinm::4robinf:!

Click Here to vote for the next two characters!

In order to keep discussions in the thread as organized as possible, I wish for those participating to show the character stock icon of the disscussed character before talking about them. Kinda like this. :GCD:

:4littlemac:#:#
Keep him in the air, so he can't exploit his strong ground game.
:4shulk:#:#
You can camp out his Monado arts.

It's also greatly appreciated if a matchup ratio is also mentioned. :)

Thank you! :drflip:
 

Sensane

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I need to experiment with these MUs more often since I never find any Falcos anymore and I've only faced one Robin player, but I was using Pit instead of Sonic assuming the MU was more in favor of Pit.
 

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:4sonic:vs:4robinm:/:4robinf: (60/40)

From my experience this MU is still in Sonics favor but after Robin got a huge grab buff it became a lot more scary for us.

We can still easily dance around a lot of Robins projectiles and easily get around them because of their really damn slow walk speed BUT if we get caught in any or the projectiles (ArcFire and ArcThunder) were going to eat a **** ton of %, especially if we get caught in shield and if Robin is close enough to get a guaranteed grab thanks to the shield-stun buff and then combine it with the buffed Robin DThrow, which can lead to a lot of % at low % or a kill at high %.

One other thing to seriously watch out for in this MU is Robins insane aerials, ESPECIALLY, with Levin Sword going. Sonic has a pretty eh air game as it is, so being above a Robin with Levin Sword is ****ing scary, especially with how early that **** kills.

One great advantage we definetley have over this MU is literally our speed, Robin is by far one of the slowest characters in the game, so we can easily bait out a big punish.

Also, for the love of god WATCH THE LEVIN SWORD HITBOXES!!!!!!!!!! especially DSmash in this case, since with Levin Sword it has a hitbox on the back of it, making it really useful for catching a roll read.

Might edit later once more stuff comes to mind.

And since I dont have a set recorded with a :4robinm::4robinf: player ill link a few sets from the one in my scene! (Who I have still got quite a lot of exp with)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DvrsR5tHM0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaTwnzdw0QE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Q0C9afvuQ
 
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33percentgod

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
115
I'm asking on these boards because a year later, this MU is impossible.

I have given all I can in this match up and the best I can do is land 40-50% dmg on Sonic out of my full 2 stocks. I'm completely without any answers. Every other char even if I can't pull it off, there's a formulated strategy to TRY to get a win, but with Sonic I honestly just SD off the side at this point to save myself the frustration of how Bowser has nothing in this match up. It's literally a game where you only throw rock and Sonic always gets paper.

The consensus on the Bowser board is just "well, sit there and anticipate his attack." Ok, but every "attack" is spin dash, which for some reason he can do ANYTHING out of the move even if he messes it up or hits a shield (why that's a thing, I don't know, but). It's just spin dash, and then you get taken into the air, comboed, and land with 30% while Sonic is already on the other side of the stage preparing another spin dash.

Right now this is a literal impossibility for Bowser. Do you guys ever run into any weaknesses against a Bowser? Can we talk about this match up a little more? Bowser isn't a char played much so unless you're a top tier char, the boards are pretty much a ghost town. There's no much talk of anything going on there.
 

BlackPhantom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
123
Location
Irving, TX
3DS FC
3823-9082-0822
I'm asking on these boards because a year later, this MU is impossible.

I have given all I can in this match up and the best I can do is land 40-50% dmg on Sonic out of my full 2 stocks. I'm completely without any answers. Every other char even if I can't pull it off, there's a formulated strategy to TRY to get a win, but with Sonic I honestly just SD off the side at this point to save myself the frustration of how Bowser has nothing in this match up. It's literally a game where you only throw rock and Sonic always gets paper.

The consensus on the Bowser board is just "well, sit there and anticipate his attack." Ok, but every "attack" is spin dash, which for some reason he can do ANYTHING out of the move even if he messes it up or hits a shield (why that's a thing, I don't know, but). It's just spin dash, and then you get taken into the air, comboed, and land with 30% while Sonic is already on the other side of the stage preparing another spin dash.

Right now this is a literal impossibility for Bowser. Do you guys ever run into any weaknesses against a Bowser? Can we talk about this match up a little more? Bowser isn't a char played much so unless you're a top tier char, the boards are pretty much a ghost town. There's no much talk of anything going on there.
Right now we are not currently discussing the Bowser MU. Please take questions like those to the FAQ or vote in the weekly poll and HOPE your character gets picked.

We sonics mains here love to stay organized, so please understand.
 
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